Same-sex couple files complaint against Gresham bakery

[Ellimenopy]

I'm in the minority here in that I feel torn about the anti-discrimination laws regulating private businesses. I feel any businesses receiving government money should follow anti-bias laws, but that private businesses should be able to pick their clientele and be denied any government money if they decide to follow discriminatory business. If such a business did discriminate against gays or blacks or buddhists, then it's my right as a consumer to no longer patronize that business and to have the local community shun them. It's a matter of principle for me, that government should have its limits when dealing with private businesses that receive no help from them. The gay couple should leave and make sure everyone know of the poor service they receive. In the catering business, poor of word of mouth will close down a business faster than any state attorney lawsuit.

I used to think the same as you, but then I moved to the Mississippi Delta and let me tell you about the Mississippi Delta: without federal guns enforcing federal laws, there would still be 100% segregation here.

I'm all about business owners being able to control their property, but you have to think about cases where everyone decides to control their property in the same way. If I turn away someone because I personally don't like them (and my husband and I have done this a few times), then that person has to go somewhere else. If we turn down a whole group of people, and everyone else turns down the same group of people, then you've shunned an entire group of people from public life. We mustn't forget our history, especially such recent history.

[Mama Mia]

I used to think the same as you, but then I moved to the Mississippi Delta and let me tell you about the Mississippi Delta: without federal guns enforcing federal laws, there would still be 100% segregation here.

I'm all about business owners being able to control their property, but you have to think about cases where everyone decides to control their property in the same way. If I turn away someone because I personally don't like them (and my husband and I have done this a few times), then that person has to go somewhere else. If we turn down a whole group of people, and everyone else turns down the same group of people, then you've shunned an entire group of people from public life. We mustn't forget our history, especially such recent history.

I agree with the above. Having only lived in a very, very liberal area it has sometimes been hard for me to understand why some of these laws are needed, or why they might apply to private business.

I think the most valuable thing I've gotten from FJ is it has really broadened my perspective on what goes on in other areas of the U.S. and why some laws/positions might be a good idea, that from my view I wouldn't have considered important, or even good.

There are all sorts of ways of being "sheltered".

[DistantStar]

They didn't just lose this couple's money -- they lost the money of everybody locally who heard about this who isn't bigoted against gays and want to buy a cake. It's not just one wedding cake, I think. I hope. Certain actions and positions should have consequences.

Having lived in the Bible Belt, I do take the presence of obvious Christian imagery (crosses, Bible quotes, etc.) in a business to indicate very conservative/fundie light owners. They may not be anti-gay, but that stuff is everywhere in certain places and the two tend to go together. I am well aware there are many non-bigoted Christians (I am one and know a whole bunch) but in my experience they don't usually put their Christianity on display in the same ways.

[Anxious Girl]

Another Christian fundie hypocrite: "It's ok for Christians to boycott what they think is against their faith and thus persecution, but if Christians and non-Christians are unsupportive boycott Christian businesses that act like churches, it's persecution!" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50679304/ns/u ... snhp&pos=7 God, I'm so tired of Christian exemption and privilege in America. It makes me sick to my stomach.

[Bethella]

There's already a thread.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15275

[So Says I]

I did notice the following line on their main webpage. I wonder if the "man and woman" part was added in light of the recent publicity:

"We also here at Sweet Cakes strongly believe that when a man and women come together to be joined as one,it is truely one of the most special days of their lives, we feel truely honored when we are chosen to do the cake for your day."

As a proud liberal and an Episcopalian, I, too, resent when fundy/fundy-lite types use the term "Christian" and the display of crosses to imply homophobia, anti-choice, pro-gun, etc. political views. Bigotry and misogyny are not Christian values and most of us DO NOT stand for it!

P.S. The ding dongs don't even know how to spell the word "truly". :roll:

[Mama Mia]

I did notice the following line on their main webpage. I wonder if the "man and woman" part was added in light of the recent publicity:

"We also here at Sweet Cakes strongly believe that when a man and women come together to be joined as one,it is truely one of the most special days of their lives, we feel truely honored when we are chosen to do the cake for your day."

As a proud liberal and an Episcopalian, I, too, resent when fundy/fundy-lite types use the term "Christian" and the display of crosses to imply homophobia, anti-choice, pro-gun, etc. political views. Bigotry and misogyny are not Christian values and most of us DO NOT stand for it!

P.S. The ding dongs don't even know how to spell the word "truly". :roll:

If I'd noticed that I probably would have just thought they were using traditional boiler point wording regarding marriage and wedding cakes, and hadn't thought to change it.

[GiggleOfGirls]

Every time I see "truly" misspelled, I think of the Browns.

It really pisses me off when people do bigoted or mean things in the name of Christianity. Seriously? Christ would've totally been on board with ostracizing entire groups of people :roll: It's not as if he spent any time with marginalized groups of people or anything...

I'm mainly a social libertarian (small L) and pretty liberal other than that (which took me a long time to admit, even to myself, after having grown up in a conservative fundy-lite family), but I'm wholly in favor of anti-discrimination laws.

[HomegirlRuby]

The bakery can deny service to anyone they want for any reason they want.

That being said, the couple in question could also tell everyone they know/blog/facespace/etc. about what ignorant, half-witted assholes these guys are, then find another bakery who would be more than willing to accommodate them.

[valsa]

The bakery can deny service to anyone they want for any reason they want.

Erm... no they can't.

Did you even bother to read the OP?

State law says it is a violation for a business to deny “full and equal accommodations†for customers based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation and other factors.

[Mama Mia]

Erm... no they can't.

Did you even bother to read the OP?

I'm curious though... is same sex marriage legal in Oregon ? Do you think the bakery owners could use that marriage is only legal for heterosexual couples as a basis for denying the services ? I don't think it's right, morally, but that might be a legal argument. Although then they would be obligated to ask to see actual marriage licenses in order to apply the policy evenly.

If Oregon law has changed then it wouldn't be an argument, obviously.

[valsa]

I'm curious though... is same sex marriage legal in Oregon ? Do you think the bakery owners could use that marriage is only legal for heterosexual couples as a basis for denying the services ? I don't think it's right, morally, but that might be a legal argument. Although then they would be obligated to ask to see actual marriage licenses in order to apply the policy evenly.

If Oregon law has changed then it wouldn't be an argument, obviously.

Same sex marriage being legal or not legal in Oregon would have nothing to do with violating discrimination laws based on sexual orientation.

[Mama Mia]

Same sex marriage being legal or not legal in Oregon would have nothing to do with violating discrimination laws based on sexual orientation.

I don't know, I'm not a lawyer - but I think they could use the same sort of argument that insurance companies (for example) use. That they only have to cover someone with a legal marriage, and therefore are exempt from sexual orientation discrimination laws. Again, I don't think it's right - but I could see it being used as a loophole. They could say that they can't be forced to perform a service for an illegal activity. But to use that argument they would then have to show that they applied the policy evenly ( making sure all wedding cakes were being used for actual legal wedding ceremonies ).

I know in some states legal domestic partnerships will qualify for insurance benefits, but don't know if that is a federal law, or varies state by state.

[Ellimenopy]

I don't know, I'm not a lawyer - but I think they could use the same sort of argument that insurance companies (for example) use. That they only have to cover someone with a legal marriage, and therefore are exempt from sexual orientation discrimination laws. Again, I don't think it's right - but I could see it being used as a loophole. They could say that they can't be forced to perform a service for an illegal activity. But to use that argument they would then have to show that they applied the policy evenly ( making sure all wedding cakes were being used for actual legal wedding ceremonies ).

I know in some states legal domestic partnerships will qualify for insurance benefits, but don't know if that is a federal law, or varies state by state.

[valsa]

I don't know, I'm not a lawyer - but I think they could use the same sort of argument that insurance companies (for example) use. That they only have to cover someone with a legal marriage, and therefore are exempt from sexual orientation discrimination laws. Again, I don't think it's right - but I could see it being used as a loophole. They could say that they can't be forced to perform a service for an illegal activity. But to use that argument they would then have to show that they applied the policy evenly ( making sure all wedding cakes were being used for actual legal wedding ceremonies ).

I know in some states legal domestic partnerships will qualify for insurance benefits, but don't know if that is a federal law, or varies state by state.

Insurance coverage is a contract, a cake is a fucking cake. An insurance company will not cover an un-legally-married heterosexual couple either, whereas nothing indicates that this bakery requires straight couples to sign a paper stating they intend to get legally married before they'll provide them with a cake.

The bakery denied two unmarried lesbians a cake in the same exact circumstances they would not deny an unmarried man and an unmarried woman a cake. That's discrimination based on sexual orientation.

And though it's a moot point, if it's so important to you, Oregon does not allow same sex marriage but it's neighbor, Washington, does. The lesbians were probably buying the cake to celebrate their legal marriage performed in that state.

[Three and Done]

I have merged the two threads.

Three

[Mama Mia]

Insurance coverage is a contract, a cake is a fucking cake. An insurance company will not cover an un-legally-married heterosexual couple either, whereas nothing indicates that this bakery requires straight couples to sign a paper stating they intend to get legally married before they'll provide them with a cake.

The bakery denied two unmarried lesbians a cake in the same exact circumstances they would not deny an unmarried man and an unmarried woman a cake. That's discrimination based on sexual orientation.

And though it's a moot point, if it's so important to you, Oregon does not allow same sex marriage but it's neighbor, Washington, does. The lesbians were probably buying the cake to celebrate their legal marriage performed in that state.

It's not "so important to me", I think it's messed up that they did it at all. It is also why I stated they would have to show they applied the policy equally ( asking for verification it was for a legal marriage ) . If they did bother to go to court over it, it would hopefully be cause for the state legislature to review the loopholes in the law and either get rid of them- or even better - get rid of the prohibition against same sex marriage based on that prohibition violating their own regulations regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation.

I know some states don't even include sexual orientation in their non-discrimination laws - but for the states that do - I don't see how they can possibly legally justify a ban on same sex marriage.

[doggie]

Batman to the resue.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Chef-Duf ... 52471.html

Duff Goldman, the executive chef of Ace of Cakes, has a message for the same-sex couple denied a wedding cake from a Gresham bakery: He’ll make it for free.

“I saw this story and I thought, ‘Hey, I can do something,’†Goldman said in a video interview Monday with the Huffington Post. “I will make the cake for free, drive it up to Portland just to right this wrong.â€

The famous pastry chef’s response came after the story of a Gresham bakery owner refusing to make the cake for couple made national news. The story, first reported by KATU, was picked up by the Huffington Post and is currently the most popular article on its website, based on 5,000 shares.

Goldman, whose bakery is based out of Baltimore, said he prepares a lot of wedding cakes for same-sex couples and was surprised by how the local baker’s actions. He described the baker’s response as “blatant.â€

Aaron Klein, the owner of Sweet Cakes, told KATU on air that he told the woman last month that he couldn’t make her wedding cake because of his religious beliefs.

The woman told KATU that he called her and her partner “abominations to the Lord;" Klein denied making that statement.

The Oregon Attorney General's Office is investigating whether Klein violated the state's Equality Act in denying service.

[snarkbillie]

http://i.imgur.com/5Sb69Yk.jpg

Seems like they have a lot of problems.

[doggie]

http://i.imgur.com/5Sb69Yk.jpg

Seems like they have a lot of problems.

that looks like a fake page. but who knows?

[Almost]

http://i.imgur.com/5Sb69Yk.jpg

Seems like they have a lot of problems.

that cannot be real. Especially in light of the fact they're currently under investigation, I would assume their lawyer has told them to keep their mouths shut about anything related to this case. Unless they really are that stupid.

[snarkbillie]

that cannot be real. Especially in light of the fact they're currently under investigation, I would assume their lawyer has told them to keep their mouths shut about anything related to this case. Unless they really are that stupid.

examiner.com/article/sweet-cakes-by-melissa-posts-racist-rant-on-facebook

[Almost]

welp, that just made things easier for the side bringing the case against them. I clearly underestimate the level of stupidity some are capable of. Wow.

[LostSamurai]

HAHAHAHA....and closing down in 3....2.....1

To be fair though that page does look hacked, but it's too late for them now.

[doggie]

of course their business has increased with like minded Christians. Lord save me from like minded Christians. I hate how they are encouraged to be bad because of like minded Christians.

Gresham bakery owners who refused to make a wedding cake for a Portland lesbian couple said Tuesday they've had a rush of customers since the couple filed a state complaint. News of the complaint apparently led to a bump in the Gresham bakery's sales, Melissa Klein said. The influx started Saturday, and the business ran out of baked goods about an hour and a half before closing Tuesday.

She spent the rest of her workday taking orders and telling customers they would have to return the next day.

"It's been very busy here the last few days, and at times, it's been hard to handle the demand," she said.