Michelle on Josie's Progress

[Beammeup]

Mr. Beammeup is very lactose intolerant. However yogurt doesn't bother him at all. He loves frozen yogurt. But that would take efront on Michellet's part to find out.

[Evilbad]

Most toddlers and preschoolers are more smackers than meal eaters. My kid was RARE because he didn't aback much, but toddlers in general generally eat small meals every few hours. You count their nutrition over days instead of just one day or meal.

However, they shouldn't be allowed to do it all by themselves. My friends daughter was a grazer, like nonstop, so I would just put a plate of snacks out that she could ha e. otherwise I was in the kitchen every five minutes.

[hywelis]

I actually kind of feel like this is a case of "A duggar said it, therefore we must mock", because its really just basic common sense to teach kids with food allergies from an early age that they can't eat it, or siblings that they can't have it.

Plenty of other stuff to mock, I think ya'll are reaching here.

Teaching a kid from an early age that a certain food will make them sick is one thing, and very wise. The whole "I may not" angle is another thing, and it's sad because, as another poster said, it makes a health issue into an obedience issue, which is twisted.

Hywelis

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I actually kind of feel like this is a case of "A duggar said it, therefore we must mock", because its really just basic common sense to teach kids with food allergies from an early age that they can't eat it, or siblings that they can't have it.

Plenty of other stuff to mock, I think ya'll are reaching here.

There are several issues going on here. First, we question whether or not this is true about Josie because we have seen her eating dairy before. And it wouldn't be the first time Michelle has lied.

Second, there is the issue of how the younger children are left to forage for themselves and apparently unsupervised. This has come up before-- remember the scene of Hannie eating an empty ice cream cone? It is all very well to plan a snack drawer for your toddler or allow your 10 year old to come home and make a sandwich, but in the Duggar home there are children aged 3 to 23 and their needs and abilities are very disparate. Their informal style of allowing the kids to feed themselves whenever they want is a bit alarming once we hear that Josie is "allergic to milk." What I want to know is does anybody keep track of what these kids are eating?

Third, There is is the problem of the mantra that Michelle is teaching Josie. How does Josie know which foods to apply it to? Does she know why she "may not"?

[ILoveJellybeans]

It was Jordyn, aged about 3, eating an empty ice cream cone as nobody had cooked her lunch :(

I dont think they actually cook very often in that house, or just do one meal a day and everyone else just scavenges the rest of the time. I imagine most of the time the kids diet is junk food, as healthy eating is not included in the SOTDRT.

[amers]

Sometimes my kids go in the kitchen and get a snack on their own. Little Boy Amers is allergic (NOT lactose intolerant) to milk protein, and we have to teach him not to eat things that could make him sick. At home that's easy, we just don't buy it, but it's important he recognize and say to others that he can't have cheese or icecream, so they know not to give it to him if we aren't there. So I *think* what Michelle was trying to do was teach her to say "others may, I can not" or whatever, so she'd learn to be able to say that and people could recognize why she can't have yogurt. I'm assuming she's just lactose intolerant, and it gives her a stomach ache. Where as my kid has milk and his cheeks and ears turn red, he starts humming, and he speaks like a drunk person. Not to mention it makes him drowsy. It's weird. Never seen anything like it. At one point it was thought he might be on the autism spectrum, but then the allergy was discovered and his symptoms left. (I'm rambling. That happens when I talk about milk now, it's taken over our liiiiiiiiiiiives.)

[Muriel]

OMTS, Aunt Cloud and I may go to different houses of prayer, but we worship the same food God. ;) My family is from Europe and insisted on keeping many of our food rituals intact. I also go to Europe every other year. There is no one European food culture. In Greece, when kids get home from school, they are practically COMMANDED to snack. Children do not ask permission to get into the fruit baskets, grab some yogurt, or sandwich some cheese into bread. In fact, there is a piece of "folkwisdom" that says if kids don't get something to eat after school, they will not be able to study properly. The only time they are going to get denied is right before a meal. A sit down meal with everybody once a day is a big deal, a ritual where there is no TV and no one is reading their newspaper.

Not trying to start a war, I realize there are different strokes for different folks, but I just can't let the impression being made that "Americans snack" and "Europeans don't" stand.

That sounds like very much what we do in France :lol:

The mandatory after school snack, otherwise you couldn't do your homework properly and the family diner, which is a must in almost all French families.

[Miggy]

Sometimes my kids go in the kitchen and get a snack on their own. Little Boy Amers is allergic (NOT lactose intolerant) to milk protein, and we have to teach him not to eat things that could make him sick. At home that's easy, we just don't buy it, but it's important he recognize and say to others that he can't have cheese or icecream, so they know not to give it to him if we aren't there. So I *think* what Michelle was trying to do was teach her to say "others may, I can not" or whatever, so she'd learn to be able to say that and people could recognize why she can't have yogurt. I'm assuming she's just lactose intolerant, and it gives her a stomach ache. Where as my kid has milk and his cheeks and ears turn red, he starts humming, and he speaks like a drunk person. Not to mention it makes him drowsy. It's weird. Never seen anything like it. At one point it was thought he might be on the autism spectrum, but then the allergy was discovered and his symptoms left. (I'm rambling. That happens when I talk about milk now, it's taken over our liiiiiiiiiiiives.)

Nice to hear from someone else who lives with this ^. My eldest is allergic to dairy protein as well as lactose intolerant. It's hard to explain the difference to people, especially as dairy protein doesn't usually cause an anaphylactic reaction so people just think you don't know what you are talking about.

My son goes deaf (ear tubes swell causing a similar effect to glue ear), face & ears go red, massive behaviour changes, sometimes his nose blocks (as with the ears it is due to internal swelling). He is 18 now and it is just as much of a problem now as it was when he was little.

[AuntCloud]

That sounds like very much what we do in France :lol:

The mandatory after school snack, otherwise you couldn't do your homework properly and the family diner, which is a must in almost all French families.

Absolutely! having small non-meals (a sandwich, a bowl of cereal, a glass of chocolate milk) =/= never having sit-down dinners. I have both in my house. We are all on different schedules and not always hungry at the same time. I won't make them sit down for lunch with my if I just came home from a run and am ravenous, and they slept in and had a late breakfast. Also, when they have friends over, They have popsicles in the back yard or have tea parties in the kitchen, and my oldest and her friends enjoy fixing themselves toast and cheese and feel oh-so-grown-up. And we can still have our dinner later.

[treehugger]

I know this is a bit off topic but...

If there is one thing that ticks me off - it is people assuming an intolerance is the same as an allergy. While I realize that many people suffer from real allergies - it seems to be the trendy thing to have an "allergy" (ie. gluten, dairy, etc...). I had an unspecified auto-immune disorder growing up (my body was basically attacking itself) and almost anything was capable of giving me severe hives all over my body, my face would swell so bad my eyes would shut, my throat would get scratchy - I had to carry an epi-pen everywhere and I had to be hyper vigilant about anything I ate and touched. And it drove me nuts when people would tell me, "oh, I know exactly how you feel. If I drink milk it gives me a stomach ache also. So miserable." :roll:

No, they had no idea how it felt. When you are actually allergic to something it can be life-threatening, and, in my case, at the very least it would put me out of commission for days on end.

My sister is celiac. The real thing. And she has found that people don't actually take her seriously, because it is the cool thing to not eat gluten these days. They assume that a tiny bit of gluten won't do her any harm.

I'm not saying Michelle shouldn't be careful with what Josie eats if she actually is still lactose intolerant - but there is a huge difference between being intolerant and having an actual allergy. When she makes a big deal about Josie being intolerant, and then she is shown eating ice-cream on the show, it tends to undermine the seriousness of real allergies that real people have to deal with every day. Just my humble opinion.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

I actually appreciate the fact that Mullet is making an effort to protect her child (for once). My issue (which has been stated by other posters) is that she's turning it into a morality play - by all means, teach your three year old that they need to avoid certain foods. However, practicing saying "you may not" sounds cruel to me. Like, is it Josie's fault if she eats dairy and gets sick? Is that her penance for not following Mommy's orders? How about teaching her the CORRECT WORDS and giving her a little background as to why, then finding some alternatives?

[JenniferJuniper]

I know this is a bit off topic but...

If there is one thing that ticks me off - it is people assuming an intolerance is the same as an allergy. While I realize that many people suffer from real allergies - it seems to be the trendy thing to have an "allergy" (ie. gluten, dairy, etc...). I had an unspecified auto-immune disorder growing up (my body was basically attacking itself) and almost anything was capable of giving me severe hives all over my body, my face would swell so bad my eyes would shut, my throat would get scratchy - I had to carry an epi-pen everywhere and I had to be hyper vigilant about anything I ate and touched. And it drove me nuts when people would tell me, "oh, I know exactly how you feel. If I drink milk it gives me a stomach ache also. So miserable." :roll:

No, they had no idea how it felt. When you are actually allergic to something it can be life-threatening, and, in my case, at the very least it would put me out of commission for days on end.

My sister is celiac. The real thing. And she has found that people don't actually take her seriously, because it is the cool thing to not eat gluten these days. They assume that a tiny bit of gluten won't do her any harm.

I'm not saying Michelle shouldn't be careful with what Josie eats if she actually is still lactose intolerant - but there is a huge difference between being intolerant and having an actual allergy. When she makes a big deal about Josie being intolerant, and then she is shown eating ice-cream on the show, it tends to undermine the seriousness of real allergies that real people have to deal with every day. Just my humble opinion.

My youngest has a tree nut allergy. At age 5 he nearly died from eating a couple pistachio nuts. The elementary school he attended had sorts of "nut free" rules that revolved around peanuts. (For instance, no peanut butter sandwiches allowed in one part of the cafeteria.) But peanuts aren't tree nuts, and my son is not allergic to them. Getting the school to understand the seriousness of his situation and allowing him to have an EpiPen on him at all times was initially challenging.

So I agree. Being intolerant to something and being allergic to something are usually two entirely different things. Lumping intolerances in with allergies can be deadly if someone assumes a child will merely get an upset stomach if he consumes something he is allergic to.

With that said, Michelle’s “Other’s may, I may not†nonsense hurts my teeth. Mother of the Year?

[FakePigtails]

It's ridiculous that it's not "others may have this, I may have this instead"

And ITA about allergy/intolerance distinguishing. I knew someone who had an intolerance but let servers at restaurants think they were deathly allergic, then would have bits of food with the supposedly unacceptable ingredients. It pissed me off so much thinking of how they were contributing to deadly allergies not being taken seriously because they couldn't decide if they were okay with having stomach problems the next day or not.

[noni alabaster]

I think part of the snacking thing is cultural. Most preschools, kindergartens and even some elementary schools have "snack time" around here. It's also not unusual to have a snack in the afternoon at work, or something similar. Also, my family always has a snack a few hours after dinner but I guess you could count that as dessert. I remember all us kids having snacks together in the summer, and my mom was involved, so I don't remember if we had to ask... I think mainly with junk food type snacks, but I also think more often when we were younger my mom would just pull out one type of snack and offer that to everyone so it was less work.

For me I have a really hard time eating enough with just three meals to last me until the next one, so my doctor actually told me it was better for me to snack healthily/eat 5-6 small meals. I've gotten better at picking meals with more protein for times when I know I won't be able to snack between meals, but it's still better if I can have a snack. This doesn't mean I can't/don't eat with other people (like family dinner), it's not mutually exclusive, but for some people it does suit them better to eat smaller amounts less often. I had special permission to eat snacks during class in high school, lol.

I have issues with my pancreas tha will not allow me to eat three times a day. If I have a big meal, Hanky Panky goes into spasms, and I have to deal with severe pain and vomiting. So I have fruit, cheese and nuts around to graze on through my days. Plus, pancreatitis puts me at risk for Type 1 Diabetes, so I have to watch my blood-sugar levels.

Regarding snacks during school hours, one of my favorite memories is being in second grade and enjoying a tangelo while watching The Electric Company. Mrs. Ward used that time to score our SRAs, and we got to have some in-class fun.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I took care of a boy who had a mild allergy (nothing that required an epipen or the like, more like a grade 1 or 2) to mangos and pistachios. However, the foods weren't kept out of the house. By the age of 5, he knew that he couldn't have either of those and advocated for himself. If he was offered a fruit snack of any kind, his first question was "is there mango in this?" even in his own house. His baby sister (she was born just days before his 5th birthday) sister ate mango all the time (it was one of the first fruits she'd eat regularly). The first time he saw her eating a mango, he freaked out because he thought that she'd have an allergy too. We explained to him that not everyone has the same allergies, citing his grandmother's allergy to strawberries and his lack of that allergy as an example as well as his allergy to pistachios and his father's lack of an allergy to them. So, I personally see no problem with the "Others can, I can not" approach. Even if it is a fundie mantra. And, honestly, it never created a "complex" in the boy to not be allowed foods he was allergic to when his sister wasn't faced with the same restrictions. He stopped caring once he knew she wasn't going to have a reaction to it.

As for the keeping alternatives around, maybe she doesnt like the alternatives. Or, maybe she'd eaten the last one previously. If they had an alternative and also regular yogurt, it could explain the fight. A child who cant even read isn't necessarily going to know the difference between soy yogurt and milk yogurt.

And, in regards to the "we've seen her eat dairy before on the show", it is possible that she can have small amounts of dairy, but they decide when and where. Most of my family members are lactose intolerant. My sister cant even have a glass of milk without having to spend the night in the bathroom. She does, however, eat small amounts of cheese, yogurt, or ice cream, but never a combination of them in a 24 hour period. It's possible that Josie's condition allows for them to say "okay we're going to have __ with [dairy ingredient] for dinner, so she cant snack on dairy products" or "it's not likely that she'll get anything with dairy in it for another meal, so an ice cream would be okay."

*edited because I do know the difference between wear and where... my fingers just dont always pay attention to what my brain is telling them to type*

[OkToBeTakei]

Horses for courses it would appear.

Apart from the intolerance and allergy. I am very lucky in that way. That is a totally different and difficult issue. Really impressed with how some of you deal with that. I wonder how I would deal with a different set of circumstances to my own.

Still amused that some think just because asking precludes freedom. I guess that is not cultural or food related and is just preference. My house is over-run with children most days after school, and most weekends. The fact they ask is just normal to me. Ask or tell me? Debatable. But for me it is just a sign of respect. No I do not jump up every 10 minutes to make their wishes. I do clean up the crap of 'making cakes' but that is part of being a parent. Cake making is messy. So is sandwich or just about anything :lol:

But it may be my small demographic, but I have never seen a child apart from an occasional help themselves. It would not be cute OR familiar. It is rude without asking. Which shows the differences in life I guess.

[Arete]

It is considered extremely rude in the US for a child to help themselves in any house except their own. However, most of my friends and family do give their kids blanket food getting privileges in their own homes, and parental veto is only used close to a mealtime, or in the case of sweets.

[OkToBeTakei]

It is considered extremely rude in the US for a child to help themselves in any house except their own. However, most of my friends and family do give their kids blanket food getting privileges in their own homes, and parental veto is only used close to a mealtime, or in the case of sweets.

I know AreteJo. Like most things it's just generalisations. I just struggle with the fact that I felt folks were mistaking food and my way of life for limiting it in any way. That and my probable Scottishness? I just tend to say it the way it is. I do not starve kids and I want them to have fun. Most certainly in my home. But I have no desire to let my toddler nieces and nephews run a mock in my kitchen. Maybe children in other countries are different but faced with a good home cooked meal or a bunch of cereal, fruit and sweet biscuits in a box, I would rather know I feed them well. Independence is good and all. Kids also like and get security from direction. If snacks work and that is your life, well fine. I have said repeatedly it is what works for each. But that goes both ways. Asking is nice.

Manners. I'm just a fecking dinosaur :lol:

ETA. If that makes any sense.

[Arete]

oh yeah, I understand. No problem here with different strokes for different folks. I wasn't imagining you having a key to the fridge around your neck. :lol:

When you do give them the run of the range, certain foods have to be uh.....verboten...from even entering the house except on special occasions. Worked just great in my house. At 19, I was practically mainlining Pepsi in my college dorm room. :shifty:

[Evilbad]

I use the term with my son sometimes. "no you may not" is not exactly some horrible term used only by fundies.

Once the food allergy thing was proven to be right, everybody turned to the language she used which just kind of shows me it's picking for the sake of picking.

[Magdelope]

I asked at home before taking something out of the fridge unless my mum wasn't home. I don't know why, because she kept telling me I shouldn't. But none of us rarely ate alone. Between lunchtime and dinner we sometimes had tea with perhaps a sandwich or some nuts.

But this isn't Swedish culture as I have a Turkish mom.

I find it VERY rude to go into somebodyelse's fridge. Sometimes in Sweden you are expected too, or they'll say, 'just grab so and so' 'or open the fridge and choose one of those' and it makes me so uncomfortable even though they have told me so.

... And I also call bullshit on the parentable.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

It is considered extremely rude in the US for a child to help themselves in any house except their own. However, most of my friends and family do give their kids blanket food getting privileges in their own homes, and parental veto is only used close to a mealtime, or in the case of sweets.

I think this entirely depends on how well you know the family. With some of my friends, I'd never consider it or be offended if they considered it in my house; with others, it wouldnt even be a second thought.

[Trynn]

I think whether or not it's rude depends on context. I know, for example, that at certain peoples' houses I have standing permission to eat whatever I want that hasn't been pointed out to me and declared off limits.

But at a house where I barely know the person, don't know the person all that well, or even have a niggling little doubt, I would ask before I walked up to somebody's refrigerator.

One person I visited said something like, "you are welcome here always. This is God's house." A few minutes later, I also asked her if it was God's refrigerator too. She laughed at me and said yes. She's a very sweet person.

[FJismyheadship]

I think whether or not it's rude depends on context. I know, for example, that at certain peoples' houses I have standing permission to eat whatever I want that hasn't been pointed out to me and declared off limits.

But at a house where I barely know the person, don't know the person all that well, or even have a niggling little doubt, I would ask before I walked up to somebody's refrigerator.

One person I visited said something like, "you are welcome here always. This is God's house." A few minutes later, I also asked her if it was God's refrigerator too. She laughed at me and said yes. She's a very sweet person.

There is a song called God's Refrigerator... very cute. I am pretty sure its on youtube

[OkToBeTakei]

I think whether or not it's rude depends on context. I know, for example, that at certain peoples' houses I have standing permission to eat whatever I want that hasn't been pointed out to me and declared off limits.

But at a house where I barely know the person, don't know the person all that well, or even have a niggling little doubt, I would ask before I walked up to somebody's refrigerator.

One person I visited said something like, "you are welcome here always. This is God's house." A few minutes later, I also asked her if it was God's refrigerator too. She laughed at me and said yes. She's a very sweet person.

:lol:

I think context is important. I would be concerned that children though do not always have the skills to understand the nuances of adult interaction and the sometimes difficult social niceties which are not always transparent. Help yourself, can mean everything or everything except my extremely expensive foie gras :lol: Erring on the side of caution would be my path.

I think it also depends say on the type of interaction. If I have people staying with me for an extended period of time then it tends to be close friends or family who actually tend at times to contribute to the food bank or drink bank anyway and it becomes just a mutual home. Never going to turn down somebody cooking for me :lol: If I'm just visiting with somebody for a coffee I would be totally horrified if my child either helped herself or to be very honest even asked for food, or a snack. You wait to be offered.

I would be getting extremely paranoid after reading here if it was not for the fact that I've been racking my brains to think of situations which this is not the case among my circle of family, friends and acquaintances but can only think of a couple of occasions which involved small kids. Maybe that's why it seems strange to me. Almost like it is absolutely not the thing to do to arrive at somebody's house empty handed. Even my best friends in life who I see numerous times a week never come for coffee without at least a packet of biscuits, flowers or a treat for the child. Quite strange when you think the cultural norm is for Scots to be viewed as mean :lol: Same as I do not leave their homes without dropping money in their kid's hand for a 'sweetie.'

It's quite fascinating really and maybe even not cultural as local within cultures. The snack/treat/meal thing though I think is personal as I know some like me, others totally different. That one I think is personal preference or need based due to lifestyle.

But if anybody here wishes to come visit, please feel free to help yourself :lol: