Michelle on Josie's Progress

[Rescinded and Mended]

1. For me, if the husband truly was a picky eater, I'd probably be happiest if I didn't know about the fast-food stop ahead of time. If I didn't know the guy, I might be offended that he was turning his nose up at my (always homemade) meal. I was taught that it's good manners to at least taste the food your host offers to you. If they don't care for it, that's fine, but be polite on both sides. If the husband was a close friend, I might be a little more understanding, but likely would not change the menu if I was having other guests. Overall, unless it was a relative or close friend I was crazy about, I'd have a hard time wanting to plan a meal around someone who was that selective.

2. I wouldn't care as long as everyone got to enjoy the macaroni and cheese and chocolate cake. I have an annual party every year where I cook a ton of homemade treats, and people will still often volunteer food. I'm fine with that since I've tasted all my own recipes, but get to enjoy my friends' homemade treats, too. :)

[Dandruff]

1. Wouldn't care at all as long as he didn't plan to eat it at my place.

2. Would prefer they'd at least ask me if it was OK to bring it.

[Pretzel]

I just wrote an entire phd paper on my own food traumata and the forum monster ate my post. I. am. furious. Gaaah. :angry-banghead:

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Ok, this is going to be slightly off-topic, but all the discussion of food manners made me think of it. What do y'all think of the following 2 situations (which have come up among extended family members... both situations where to me, the offence is minor but my mother gets really peeved):

1. married couple invited to dinner. Husband is a kind of picky eater and decided he just has to stop off for fast food on the way there.

2. someone is hosting Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner for a blended family with multiple ex's and in-laws. One person always just brings along macaroni and cheese and chocolate cake for every single occasion without asking the hostess whether that would be suitable, because her 20-something daughter is a picky eater and insists on having those 2 dishes at every celebratory meal.

my mom is kind of controlling and feels like if she's hosting something, you show up on time and eat what's put in front of you. Both of these situations involve either my sister's ex-husband or his new wife and her daughter...

1. I have some sympathy because I've attended holiday dinners at which there is close to nothing vegetarian, and have wished I'd eaten before. But it depends. If the husband still eats enough at the dinner to not make it obvious that he already ate, then it's no big deal really, though definitely I would be super irritated if it were my husband. If he sits there picking at a bowl of salad and offends the hosts who cooked, that's a big issue that goes beyond eating habits.

2. As long as it's not a themed dinner where the mac&cheese and cake are totally out of place, it's not that big a deal etiquette-wise. Wouldn't really bother me as a hostess. However, a 20-something with such a limited and childlike palate? I would be embarrassed. And if she's not embarrassed, isn't she at least old enough to prepare and bring these dishes that she insists on having herself? :shrug: If you insist on eating white bread sandwiches your whole life, ok, but at a certain point you, not Mommy, are going to have to cut the crusts off.

[mrs]

1. I have some sympathy because I've attended holiday dinners at which there is close to nothing vegetarian, and have wished I'd eaten before. But it depends. If the husband still eats enough at the dinner to not make it obvious that he already ate, then it's no big deal really, though definitely I would be super irritated if it were my husband. If he sits there picking at a bowl of salad and offends the hosts who cooked, that's a big issue that goes beyond eating habits.

2. As long as it's not a themed dinner where the mac&cheese and cake are totally out of place, it's not that big a deal etiquette-wise. Wouldn't really bother me as a hostess. However, a 20-something with such a limited and childlike palate? I would be embarrassed. And if she's not embarrassed, isn't she at least old enough to prepare and bring these dishes that she insists on having herself? :shrug: If you insist on eating white bread sandwiches your whole life, ok, but at a certain point you, not Mommy, are going to have to cut the crusts off.

I agree it really depends on the situation.

I have a chronic illness that prevents me from eating fat. I have to eat small meals that calorie dense. So if I am going to a family dinner, I will eat before I leave or I will bring something I know I can eat.

I hate having to ask others to make accommodations for my diet. Its kinda embarrassing. I often feel bad when someone will ask me if I tried something.

[cjsmom]

Ok, this is going to be slightly off-topic, but all the discussion of food manners made me think of it. What do y'all think of the following 2 situations (which have come up among extended family members... both situations where to me, the offence is minor but my mother gets really peeved):

1. married couple invited to dinner. Husband is a kind of picky eater and decided he just has to stop off for fast food on the way there.

2. someone is hosting Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner for a blended family with multiple ex's and in-laws. One person always just brings along macaroni and cheese and chocolate cake for every single occasion without asking the hostess whether that would be suitable, because her 20-something daughter is a picky eater and insists on having those 2 dishes at every celebratory meal.

my mom is kind of controlling and feels like if she's hosting something, you show up on time and eat what's put in front of you. Both of these situations involve either my sister's ex-husband or his new wife and her daughter...

My son has an autism diagnosis, and has sensory issues with food, and I don't think the sensory issues are going away anytime soon. If we go out to a restaurant to eat, we can only go somewhere that has fries. He likes home-made pizza, but is genuinely scared of ordering it in case it has too much cheese or the crust might not be crispy in the middle. Add anxiety to sensory issues, and it makes it tricky. We can eat at other people's houses, as I've taught my son to sit with the rest of us and chat while he has either his own food that I've brought along or samplings from what's on offer. I'm eternally grateful to friends who've been along with us on this journey because it hasn't been easy: the two trickiest things for him are social and eating, and family/group dinners combine the two.

I always bring addons to family dinners, because I'm vegetarian (and a damn good cook). I bring a meatless dish to share with everyone. I always offer to bring dessert because I also have celiac disease, and usually am not turned down. However, I ask the host what's being served well in advance so I can find a dish that will complement what s/he has made.

Conversely, if I'm hosting, I usually set everything up buffet-style so people can choose from what they like. I want my guests to be happy and enjoy coming over to our house!

[patsymae]

Back to the OT, I don't think J'Chelle is really concerned that much about Josie's diet-- in fact, I doubt she knows what goes on in her kitchen most of the time, and if she is concerned it's just that Josie will have an episode on camera and make J'Chelle look bad. I think the "other's may have..." food is just seen a a convenient vehicle for "training" the life out of yet another child, and if it wasn't about food it would be about something else.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Sorry to continue the threadjack, I just find these cultural questions around food and hospitality really fascinating. Just another quick thing on hosting/being a guest. My partner and I LOVE cooking and having guests for dinner. When I invite folks over, I always ask them if they have any allergies, sensitivities, or just things that they don't like. ESPECIALLY if there are kids coming too! And then once I plan my menu I might check again: "You like cabbage right? Can your kids have chocolate?" Maybe a little obsessive on my part, but that way I never have an issue with a guest feeling left out or not getting enough to eat or whatever, and the guests don't have to worry about seeming rude if they don't try something.

In my experience though, some hostesses not only would never do anything like this, but also consider it rude if you don't eat something even if you do have a valid reason. Obviously that's a whole other etiquette issue - I don't understand it at all. I have been told it's rude not to eat meat when you're a guest even if you're a vegetarian! I also remember a few years ago, there was an email that went viral which had been sent to a young woman by her future MIL after a visit in which, among other things, the future MIL accused the young woman of rudeness for turning down something that she couldn't have due to her DIABETES.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Sorry to continue the threadjack, I just find these cultural questions around food and hospitality really fascinating. Just another quick thing on hosting/being a guest. My partner and I LOVE cooking and having guests for dinner. When I invite folks over, I always ask them if they have any allergies, sensitivities, or just things that they don't like. ESPECIALLY if there are kids coming too! And then once I plan my menu I might check again: "You like cabbage right? Can your kids have chocolate?" Maybe a little obsessive on my part, but that way I never have an issue with a guest feeling left out or not getting enough to eat or whatever, and the guests don't have to worry about seeming rude if they don't try something.

In my experience though, some hostesses not only would never do anything like this, but also consider it rude if you don't eat something even if you do have a valid reason. Obviously that's a whole other etiquette issue - I don't understand it at all. I have been told it's rude not to eat meat when you're a guest even if you're a vegetarian! I also remember a few years ago, there was an email that went viral which had been sent to a young woman by her future MIL after a visit in which, among other things, the future MIL accused the young woman of rudeness for turning down something that she couldn't have due to her DIABETES.

It's an interesting situational question that has been posed, and these are all good answers. I'm pretty laid back for the most part, so I'd probably be most concerned with doing whatever made my guests feel the most comfortable. I hate Diet Coke, but every year I always have two guests at my holiday party that love it. I buy it for them, and then at the end of the night, the two-liter goes home with one of them. :)

I once had a dear friend drive down to visit. She brought her husband along, who I had never met before, and shortly before arrival, he requested sloppy joes for dinner. I was slightly taken aback, but went ahead and agreed since I had come down with a really nasty cold right before their arrival and sloppy joes would be easy to fix. They showed up, and I asked the husband to help brown the hamburger beef while I prepared a side (normally would not do this, but I was feeling really sick by this point). He argued with me for 10 minutes about why he shouldn't have to help. This, after having the gall to request a selection for dinner and knowing how badly I was feeling.

The rest of the visit went downhill from there. He always had to have everything his own way at mealtimes, and when he didn't, complained violently about it. I think my friend's husband is one of those "takers" mentioned by others in this thread.

[Coconut Flan]

I have a question since we're still talking food etiquette. If two vegans have a wedding, should they feel obliged to offer a meat option at the reception? Should the fact that the groom's father will talk about this for years make a difference? He might be a jerk about it at the reception also.

[gustava]

I have a question since we're still talking food etiquette. If two vegans have a wedding, should they feel obliged to offer a meat option at the reception? Should the fact that the groom's father will talk about this for years make a difference? He might be a jerk about it at the reception also.

Interesting question. To me, vegan good is generally something that one becomes accustomed to, even if one goes cold turkey with it. While I have seen some interesting recipes on Gwyneth Paltrow's site goop, I might not immediately enjoy and entire vegan meal. While guests are supposed to be polite, it's also the responsibility of the hosts to accommodate their guests and make them feel comfortable...within reason.

A bad analogy is going to a wedding at a nudist camp....I've enjoyed myself on nude beaches and in hot springs, but I don't want to see the bride's grandmother naked.

[dawbs]

Ok, this is going to be slightly off-topic, but all the discussion of food manners made me think of it. What do y'all think of the following 2 situations (which have come up among extended family members... both situations where to me, the offence is minor but my mother gets really peeved):

1. married couple invited to dinner. Husband is a kind of picky eater and decided he just has to stop off for fast food on the way there.

2. someone is hosting Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner for a blended family with multiple ex's and in-laws. One person always just brings along macaroni and cheese and chocolate cake for every single occasion without asking the hostess whether that would be suitable, because her 20-something daughter is a picky eater and insists on having those 2 dishes at every celebratory meal.

my mom is kind of controlling and feels like if she's hosting something, you show up on time and eat what's put in front of you. Both of these situations involve either my sister's ex-husband or his new wife and her daughter...

I think these questions revolve around huge assumptions that make them kinda hard to answer.

For #1, if it was MY family, someone who couldn't find food they'd like at my family dinners is obviously not trying very hard to find food and likes being picky--I tend to think grown-ups who get to have fast-food any time they dang well please should be able to, as long as they're not ending up hungry, deal w/ a less-than ideal meal.

On the other hand If it was my husand's family...I could see how someone picky might leave hungry...eat before you get here by all means.

For #2, if 'family tradition' means Mac&cheese and chocolate cake, then it's kinda uncharitable to refuse to allow mac&cheese and chocolate cake. I know people plan menues and don't like additions but, I tend to operate in a 'the more food the merrier' sort of world. (on the other hand, my MIL would be horribly insulted that you're implying she is providing insufficient food)

Overall, I think people like my MIL need to take their hostessing a bit less seriously, when it involves casual family get-togethers. But that's just me :)

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I have a question since we're still talking food etiquette. If two vegans have a wedding, should they feel obliged to offer a meat option at the reception? Should the fact that the groom's father will talk about this for years make a difference? He might be a jerk about it at the reception also.

That's a really tough one. Ideally, I think that if the couple is vegan, they shouldn't be expected to pay for a meat option. Most vegans are vegans not only for health but also for ethical reasons. They don't want to participate in the meat and dairy industry, and asking them to go against their beliefs on THEIR day just doesn't seem right. I'm a vegetarian, as I've mentioned (I tried really hard to be a vegan, but that's another story), but my partner is a carnivore and so are most of my friends, so I've just learned to be ok with serving meat. But when both members of a couple are vegan, and it's their day, they should be able to serve what they want.

On the other hand, though, people can be SUCH DICKS about veganism and vegetarianism that it might be easier to just shell out for some free range grilled chicken instead of spending your wedding day (not to mention the lead-up and for years after - again, people are DICKS) hearing about how weird you are for not serving a meat option. :doh:

[Coconut Flan]

On the other hand, though, people can be SUCH DICKS about veganism and vegetarianism that it might be easier to just shell out for some free range grilled chicken instead of spending your wedding day (not to mention the lead-up and for years after - again, people are DICKS) hearing about how weird you are for not serving a meat option. :doh:

That seems to be squarely where they are. The groom is vegan for both health and ethical reasons so it's especially troublesome for him to consider participating in the growth and death of animals for food purposes. He's also very sensitive and it's going to weigh on his mind. OTOH it's his father who is a huge jerk about many things and loudly runs his mouth about anything that displeases him or that he can't understand. The bride is much more oh whatever, if we serve a little chicken or some shrimp it isn't the end of the world. They are considering a morning wedding with a brunch reception where it might go a little easier.

[3 ring circus]

Michelle gives an update on "Bionic Baby" Josie.

parentables.howstuffworks.com/family-matters/how-michelle-duggar-deals-her-daughters-food-sensitivities.html

Should a 3-year-old really be responsible for making sure that others don't give her food that she can't have?

Something tells me that Michelle didn't just talk to her. I bet there was a good scolding and some sort of blanket training type punishment.

At 3 my son knew no peanuts, he never went after them though

[EmmieJ]

What isn't normal is making your child watch as others get to enjoy food and refuse to provide appropriate substitutes. They make and sell almond/soy/coconut milk yogurts where I live. I'm sure it's not that different in AR.

Exactly. Why not have alternative options on hand for Josie? Michelle's thought instead is to accustom Josie to a life of having to do without.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Exactly. Why not have alternative options on hand for Josie? Michelle's thought instead is to accustom Josie to a life of having to do without.

Because having alternatives just for Josie will make her an individual, which is EVIL!! Everyone knows that Michelle and Jimbob are the only ones allowed to be people in their house, the rest are just props for their lives who must all be the same.

Its almost as bad as the one that doesnt like pickles. That was the one Michelle had exorcised.

[OkToBeTakei]

Sorry to continue the threadjack, I just find these cultural questions around food and hospitality really fascinating. Just another quick thing on hosting/being a guest. My partner and I LOVE cooking and having guests for dinner. When I invite folks over, I always ask them if they have any allergies, sensitivities, or just things that they don't like. ESPECIALLY if there are kids coming too! And then once I plan my menu I might check again: "You like cabbage right? Can your kids have chocolate?" Maybe a little obsessive on my part, but that way I never have an issue with a guest feeling left out or not getting enough to eat or whatever, and the guests don't have to worry about seeming rude if they don't try something.

In my experience though, some hostesses not only would never do anything like this, but also consider it rude if you don't eat something even if you do have a valid reason. Obviously that's a whole other etiquette issue - I don't understand it at all. I have been told it's rude not to eat meat when you're a guest even if you're a vegetarian! I also remember a few years ago, there was an email that went viral which had been sent to a young woman by her future MIL after a visit in which, among other things, the future MIL accused the young woman of rudeness for turning down something that she couldn't have due to her DIABETES.

I'm the same as you. I LOVE to cook and I love even better giving folks what they like. If it is a lot of guests I tend to make a buffet style affair which covers everything. I would NOT serve a vegetarian meat. In fact I make a lot of veggie anyway no biggie. I once did a veggie barbecue for that reason. Although one of the guests did ask me if meat had ever been cooked on the grill. So even when trying to be a nice hostess you always meet one. I looked at her askance and said, 'DARLING I am horrified you are casting aspersions on my awesome cleaning skills.' Bit embarrassing :(

[OkToBeTakei]

I have a question since we're still talking food etiquette. If two vegans have a wedding, should they feel obliged to offer a meat option at the reception? Should the fact that the groom's father will talk about this for years make a difference? He might be a jerk about it at the reception also.

Is it really awful that I want everyone to have lovely veggie food. But just him and only him a big steak? So he stands out like a sore thumb. Preferably carried in on a huge platter to drum rolls. I know I'm bad. WHY not for one day let it be that couples' special day? Food and all.

[PennySycamore]

Is it really awful that I want everyone to have lovely veggie food. But just him and only him a big steak? So he stands out like a sore thumb. Preferably carried in on a huge platter to drum rolls. I know I'm bad. WHY not for one day let it be that couples' special day? Food and all.

My oldest daughter and her husband had a vegetarian wedding. They weren't vegans, though, but I think that the food served should be up to the couple. Suppose the couple kept kosher. Should they have to serve pork or lobster to appease even one of their guests? Not in my book!

Stuff like this seems like a good reason to elope.

[Lilblazer]

Thanks for un-lurking! You are quite accomplished - congrats! With that said - can you elaborate as to which specific movement patterns you are referring to? Just curious.

Just saw this.... On vacation with my DH! Anyway, without being overly technical, she often plops during what should be controlled descents, props herself in prolonged static positions, uncoordinated limbs during running patterns, over reliance on speedy movements (an overcompensation for a lack of controlled mobility)- these are signs that would suggest what was once called dyspraxia, but is now also labeled developmental coordination disorder. This often presents with multiple sensory concerns (the taste and food tolerance issues, for example); a full evaluation would be needed though!

[August]

I have a question since we're still talking food etiquette. If two vegans have a wedding, should they feel obliged to offer a meat option at the reception? Should the fact that the groom's father will talk about this for years make a difference? He might be a jerk about it at the reception also.

If they're vegans for ethical reasons, no. How about a cocktail reception?

[bananacat]

I don't like this vegans serving meat false equivalency. Meat-eaters can eat both meat and non-meat, so having only non-meat options doesn't affect them in any way. Vegans can't eat meat at all, so having only meat options means they just don't eat. Why is it so hard for people to see the difference? Is it really so hard to just not eat meat for one meal of your life?

[Rescinded and Mended]

I don't like this vegans serving meat false equivalency. Meat-eaters can eat both meat and non-meat, so having only non-meat options doesn't affect them in any way. Vegans can't eat meat at all, so having only meat options means they just don't eat. Why is it so hard for people to see the difference? Is it really so hard to just not eat meat for one meal of your life?

Agreed. I consider myself a people pleaser for hosting parties, but if I were a guest at a vegan wedding, I would eat what was set before me and not complain. The wedding spread should reflect the choices of the bride and groom more than those of the guests. And if I really was desperate for some meat, I'd have it before arriving at the festivities.

[uber frau]

I'm the same as you. I LOVE to cook and I love even better giving folks what they like. If it is a lot of guests I tend to make a buffet style affair which covers everything. I would NOT serve a vegetarian meat. In fact I make a lot of veggie anyway no biggie. I once did a veggie barbecue for that reason. Although one of the guests did ask me if meat had ever been cooked on the grill. So even when trying to be a nice hostess you always meet one. I looked at her askance and said, 'DARLING I am horrified you are casting aspersions on my awesome cleaning skills.' Bit embarrassing :(

The problem comes when you have people who say they will cater for you but don't. Sometimes it's deliberate or because they just don't care enough to find out what dairy free/gluten free/vegan/whatever actually is but usually because the restrictions are much more complex than avoiding one simple thing and that an innocuous looking ingredient isn't as innocent as all that. When you've been burnt a few times, you tend to be wary.