The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[SamuraiKatz]

Jen and Mr/Ms Eston really should back off the National Enquirer journalism re: Doug who is a tool. I think they've tipped over from information reporting into the exacting their pound of flesh by speculation. The anonymous providers of info(if there are any) need to tell their own stories and own their words..

They need to remember that there are more people in entwined this this including Tool's Wife and children; Hero and her family; and Mrs. Robinson. What Jen and Eston do to Doug Phillips is a Tool, they are also doing to everyone connected with him. I believe in surgical strikes, not carpeting bombing and a crap ton of collateral damage.

[nokidsmom]

You probably read it on jensgems, but it is not true. DP is 5'8". T.W. Easton originally published the 5'4" figure on jensgems, and people corrected him in the comments. Easton did an "oopsy, my bad!", but he and Jen still allow that figure to be quoted on their site by other people who did not catch the correction.

At this point, it is pretty clear Jen and "Easton" have their own agenda and have no particular attachment to the truth. The business about The Tool's height is just one of the smaller examples of the lies and innuendos they indulge in.

Doug Phillips is still a Tool.

I have been skeptical about their stories given Jen's obvious ax to grind but in particular that law enforcement has not been called or involved yet. If they should be, then why aren't they? What's holding Jen or TW back if they really have the dirt on Dougie? I would think they would jump at the chance to really get him.

[freehannie]

I agree that Jen and Eston need to give it a rest. People who truly are insiders who are willing to publicly discuss what happened when seem to be non-existent. Probably because they are afraid of ruining their own reputation by admitting they knew things earlier but didn't do anything about it. But unless someone is willing to step forward, we won't ever know what really happened. And allowing them to report things anonymously means there is no accountability. I personally would love to read a tell-all by Hero, particularly if she is critical of the overall environment in these circles and not just Doug. I do feel badly for the kids caught up in all this, but this isn't just going to go away.

[church_of_dog]

If you move back and forth along the street view, you can see several views of the men walking out -- at one point two of them are waving, not just one. I don't know any of them well enough to recognize them but some of you might.

There's a little oddness where I moved one click to the right and the men (and that car they were approaching) were gone, and some red car was there that wasn't before. The previous views were only a fraction of a second apart so either the Google car stopped, or had some kind of delay in their filming.

[AlexIsAwake]

On the lower left, it says image date of March 2011.

No kidding! Place looks like a dump. I've had better signs for my tag sales.

Seriously, what a joke this place was! They are raking in millions and they can't spare any money to take some pride in what their business looks like? I'm sure the employees would have appreciated it. Looks like they had their warehouse in a low income area as well, too bad they contributed next to nothing to the local economy. Asshats.

[hoipolloi]

Jen and Mr/Ms Eston really should back off the National Enquirer journalism re: Doug who is a tool. I think they've tipped over from information reporting into the exacting their pound of flesh by speculation. The anonymous providers of info(if there are any) need to tell their own stories and own their words..

They need to remember that there are more people in entwined this this including Tool's Wife and children; Hero and her family; and Mrs. Robinson. What Jen and Eston do to Doug Phillips is a Tool, they are also doing to everyone connected with him. I believe in surgical strikes, not carpeting bombing and a crap ton of collateral damage.

Jen & Eston either read here or get reports from those who do:

Jen Says:

December 13, 2013 at 8:44 am

Some people are questioning our “National Enquirerâ€-style of reporting here. I would like to clarify why we report these kinds of sensational stories, and why ask we ask for people to tell theirs. Doug Phillips, until very recently, was an extremely powerful man, a very big fish in a small pond. In that capacity, while teaching a very extreme form of conservative family values, thousands and thousands of well-meaning Christian families began to follow his teachings. In the last fifteen years, Doug Phillips has run roughshod over, bullied, hurt and harmed, and even ruined hundreds of lives, families and even churches. Indirectly, through his extreme views on patriarchy, thousands of his followers have been hurt in countless ways as well.

[hoipolloi]

Seriously, what a joke this place was! They are raking in millions and they can't spare any money to take some pride in what their business looks like? I'm sure the employees would have appreciated it. Looks like they had their warehouse in a low income area as well, too bad they contributed next to nothing to the local economy. Asshats.

VF is/was probably the kind of employer that made employees bring in their own toilet paper.

Seeing this dump of a headquarters makes me wonder all the more how people like Kim at LiaS could ignore the contrasts between her living situation & her husband's work place vs. the mini-estate that Doug Phillips Is A Tool lived in with his family.

Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Marian the Librarian]

More recent comments from Jen's blog today, hinting at their familiarity with FJ:

Johom Says:

December 13, 2013 at 1:38 am

Is it possible that the story is even more twisted: The Nanny story now being used to cover for a gay affair? (check out google)

Reply

T.W. Eston Says:

December 13, 2013 at 10:51 am

Possible? I suppose anything might be possible with Doug Phillips. Some possibilities are permissible for discussion here. The gay possibility, in my estimation, crosses the line.

As I’ve been informed, there are one or two other blogs that are alleging that Doug Phillips is probably a closet gay and that he outed himself for the “inappropriate relationship with a woman†to preempt being outed for a gay affair. While a certain amount of speculation can, in certain cases, be propitious, openly speculating about Doug Phillips’ sexual preferences is purely salacious and inappropriate for this blog.

The only reason we’ve openly discussed Doug’s clergy sexual abuse (and it most definitely was with a woman, not a man – hence “Cassandra†not “Bobâ€) is because there is hard evidence to support it. There isn’t a shred of evidence to support that Doug Phillips is gay or bisexual. So unless there are insiders who step forward with proof, we’re not going to be entertaining such speculations here.

There's also a long comment from TW Eston posted at 12:39pm today, calling out former VF employees and interns, as well as Matt Chancey. The gauntlet has been thrown - either they confess and repent, or names will be named.

And finally, a long and mind-boggling post from someone calling themselves VFknowMORE. Yowza.

[SamuraiKatz]

Jen & Eston either read here or get reports from those who do:

That would be me. I spoke my piece on the Mrs. Robinson article. Disclaimer: I do not report to Jen...I just called Eston out on the Robinson thread and told him it was National Enquieresque. I posted my words to them upthread...and was totally surprised that my comment was allowed on her blog.

Jen and "Eston" can kiss mah grits. I call em like I see em. Doug Phillips is a tool did a whole lot of bad, bad things to a lot of people. Stooping to The Tool's level makes them no better and in some ways it makes them worse. If they had evidence and reported it to cops/district attorney, they need to step back and say nothing until the investigation is over. Otherwise they are messing up a possible criminal case.

[DomWackTroll]

More recent comments from Jen's blog today, hinting at their familiarity with FJ:

There's also a long comment from TW Eston posted at 12:39pm today, calling out former VF employees and interns, as well as Matt Chancey. The gauntlet has been thrown - either they confess and repent, or names will be named.

And finally, a long and mind-boggling post from someone calling themselves VFknowMORE. Yowza.

But the possibility that Doug is about to murder Beall doesn't cross the line? Um, okay, Not-Mark!

[formergothardite]

They still seem pretty fundie so being gay probably is worse than murder to them.

[thoughtful]

But the possibility that Doug is about to murder Beall doesn't cross the line? Um, okay, Not-Mark!

Really.

I already had a stitch in my side -- laughing at the idea that they called anyone else's speculation on Doug inappropriate made it worse.

I would not be surprised if anything they said about Doug was true. I would not be surprised if Doug secretly bathes in milk and honey and is a cannibal. But, since they are not backing up their statements with anything, I will take what they say with a grain of salt.

And BTW, Jen and "Eston" (since you are reading here), most of the stuff about Doug being gay was humor based on the fact that he condemns homosexuality, and then presents himself in ways that are bad stereotypes of gay men. Again, I would not be surprised, nor would I care, if there were proof that he is 100% heterosexual, or bisexual, or anything else -- his actual sexuality is sort of moot.

It's just that he's such a TOOL!

[snickerz]

If you zoom out to satellite view, it shows vision forum on the map. Mouse over it and it says doug phillips - homeschool - families family - discipleship. Anyone know how we can change that to something more ... accurate?

Dougie in costume --> :banana-ninja:

[nelliebelle1197]

Really.

I already had a stitch in my side -- laughing at the idea that they called anyone else's speculation on Doug inappropriate made it worse.

I would not be surprised if anything they said about Doug was true. I would not be surprised if Doug secretly bathes in milk and honey and is a cannibal. But, since they are not backing up their statements with anything, I will take what they say with a grain of salt.

And BTW, Jen and "Eston" (since you are reading here), most of the stuff about Doug being gay was humor based on the fact that he condemns homosexuality, and then presents himself in ways that are bad stereotypes of gay men. Again, I would not be surprised, nor would I care, if there were proof that he is 100% heterosexual, or bisexual, or anything else -- his actual sexuality is sort of moot.

It's just that he's such a TOOL!

Lovely post.

[Palimpsest]

Jesus wept.

Now I'm really pissed.

So TW Eston, the self-proclaimed expert on "religious sociological cults," is indulging in a spot of coercion and threatening former employees and interns? Hey, TW, was that mentioned in the "several" Christian books you have read on cults? It is also wise to cite your sources when writing articles. I guess much of your material came from Toxic Churches: Restoration from Spiritual Abuse and Healing Spiritual Abuse. It is rather clear that you have not read much sociology.

I thought you were asking people to be full of compassion and understanding for the victims of cults? Well, except for the young woman we call Hero and you call Casandra who you just outed and publicly shamed with no remorse. You asshole. And Mrs Robinson the so-called hussy you called out? Interesting that one of the books on religious cults that you read has a whole chapter on witches and Jezebels. Did you need to shame her as a whore to complete your little check list on "religious sociological" cults?

Now you are threatening employees and interns. Ever thought that some of these folks could be victims of the cult-leader too? Go after the board with real evidence, by all means, and I wouldn't object if you stuck it to Bradrick-types too, but stop these threats to expose people if they don't repent to your satisfaction and tell you all. You are just trawling for info.

Why should they want to talk to you, anyway? You are just some anonymous jerk and a very inadequate whistle-blower since, by your own admission, you were never a member of BCA and have no knowledge of the inner workings there. So you have met Doug Phillips, but your whole case seems to be based on hearsay. :shrug:

Oh, and Jen's experiences were years ago so her perspective is out of date for the happenings of recent years.

Again, as many people have told you -- if you actually know first hand and have evidence of actual "crimes" (and are not engaging in pure hyperbole) then you need to report them to the proper authorities. Now! Otherwise you, TW, are engaging in aiding and abetting cover-ups too. Idiot.

Doug Phillips is undoubtedly a Very Bad Man, but TW is a pontificating, self-righteous, bullying twerp whose actual belief system seems as repugnant to me as Doug the Tool's preachings.

For convenience because it is deep in the comments, here is the first half of TW's latest rant on JensGems. My bolding:

There are many of Doug Phillips’ accomplices, primarily in the form of key Vision Forum employees and Interns. We know their names and we know their deeds. I’d like to out them all right now. In fact I’m chomping at the bit to out them. Jen is holding me back, but that’s only going to last so long. Jen’s patience for these young men exceeds mine, but her patience for them will soon expire too.

With each passing day their silence only confirms their own lack of repentance and that they are incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves. Their lack of repentance can only mean that, if left to their own devices, they will go on to other “ministries†and repeat the cycle of abuses that their mentor, Doug Phillips, trained them in so well. I won’t stand idly by and allow that to happen.

If they don’t start coming forward very soon themselves they’re going to face public exposure, right here, and the severe public criticism and loss of reputation that goes with it. If they hope to prevent it they need to, at the very least, do all of the following:

1). Contact Jen and offer her a sincere, specific, non-evasive confession and apology for the evil deeds they have perpetrated, not only against her and her family, but against everyone else they have harmed by aiding and abetting Doug Phillips’ abuses, frauds, and crimes.

2). Contact me and/or Jen via email and start dialoguing with us. Come clean about what you know. If you don’t do so we’ll take that as a clear indication of your past complicity in multiple cover ups, and your ongoing complicity in those cover ups.

3). Stop posting face-saving distancing-yourself-from Doug Phillips Facebook comments and blog posts bemoaning the fall of an alleged great Christian leader, whom you don’t even have the guts to name, who supposedly fell only because of pride and an “affair†(this article clearly explains why it was no affair at all, so call it what it is).

[hoipolloi]

^^^^^^^^

Bravo, Palimpset.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[VVV]

Seriously, what a joke this place was! They are raking in millions and they can't spare any money to take some pride in what their business looks like? I'm sure the employees would have appreciated it. Looks like they had their warehouse in a low income area as well, too bad they contributed next to nothing to the local economy. Asshats.

According to Mapquest, the warehouse is a mile and a half from my home. The neighborhood where it's located is perhaps best described as working class. It isn't wealthy, true, but it is far from the poorest part of San Antonio.

[debrand]

Really.

I already had a stitch in my side -- laughing at the idea that they called anyone else's speculation on Doug inappropriate made it worse.

I would not be surprised if anything they said about Doug was true. I would not be surprised if Doug secretly bathes in milk and honey and is a cannibal. But, since they are not backing up their statements with anything, I will take what they say with a grain of salt.

And BTW, Jen and "Eston" (since you are reading here), most of the stuff about Doug being gay was humor based on the fact that he condemns homosexuality, and then presents himself in ways that are bad stereotypes of gay men. Again, I would not be surprised, nor would I care, if there were proof that he is 100% heterosexual, or bisexual, or anything else -- his actual sexuality is sort of moot.

It's just that he's such a TOOL!

This is exactly why I still believe that Doug is bisexual. Doug would probably be a happier person, and make far less people miserable, if he would just admit he likes men and women and forget about being whoever he is pretending to be. It is troubling that someone would think that being gay is more salacious and embarrassing than wanting to kill your wife. That speaks to both their disgust with homosexuality and women.

[nelliebelle1197]

Jesus wept.

Now I'm really pissed.

So TW Eston, the self-proclaimed expert on "religious sociological cults," is indulging in a spot of coercion and threatening former employees and interns? Hey, TW, was that mentioned in the "several" Christian books you have read on cults? It is also wise to cite your sources when writing articles. I guess much of your material came from Toxic Churches: Restoration from Spiritual Abuse and Healing Spiritual Abuse. It is rather clear that you have not read much sociology.

I thought you were asking people to be full of compassion and understanding for the victims of cults? Well, except for the young woman we call Hero and you call Casandra who you just outed and publicly shamed with no remorse. You asshole. And Mrs Robinson the so-called hussy you called out? Interesting that one of the books on religious cults that you read has a whole chapter on witches and Jezebels. Did you need to shame her as a whore to complete your little check list on "religious sociological" cults?

Now you are threatening employees and interns. Ever thought that some of these folks could be victims of the cult-leader too? Go after the board with real evidence, by all means, and I wouldn't object if you stuck it to Bradrick-types too, but stop these threats to expose people if they don't repent to your satisfaction and tell you all. You are just trawling for info.

Why should they want to talk to you, anyway? You are just some anonymous jerk and a very inadequate whistle-blower since, by your own admission, you were never a member of BCA and have no knowledge of the inner workings there. So you have met Doug Phillips, but your whole case seems to be based on hearsay. :shrug:

Oh, and Jen's experiences were years ago so her perspective is out of date for the happenings of recent years.

Again, as many people have told you -- if you actually know first hand and have evidence of actual "crimes" (and are not engaging in pure hyperbole) then you need to report them to the proper authorities. Now! Otherwise you, TW, are engaging in aiding and abetting cover-ups too. Idiot.

Doug Phillips is undoubtedly a Very Bad Man, but TW is a pontificating, self-righteous, bullying twerp whose actual belief system seems as repugnant to me as Doug the Tool's preachings.

For convenience because it is deep in the comments, here is the first half of TW's latest rant on JensGems. My bolding:

Another lovely post! :D

[DomWackTroll]

RC Jr. is asked, "Do you believe there are people who are incapable of repenting?" In response, he first calls teh gayz perverts, then talks about how King David was even worse than You Know Who:

"King David not only committed adultery, but committed murder to cover it up. Yet he was still a man after God’s own heart."

See? Doug hasn’t even killed anyone yet, so just mellow out, dude.

highlandsministriesonline.org/ask-rc/ask-rc-believe-people-incapable-repenting/

[DomWackTroll]

This is exactly why I still believe that Doug is bisexual. Doug would probably be a happier person, and make far less people miserable, if he would just admit he likes men and women and forget about being whoever he is pretending to be. It is troubling that someone would think that being gay is more salacious and embarrassing than wanting to kill your wife. That speaks to both their disgust with homosexuality and women.

I do, too, debrand. If you look at Doug's beliefs and history, is it really so hard to imagine that the only "turn-ons" he would need are power and control, to the point where the gender of any of his sex partners would be irrelevant? And that his own internal struggle with that might be the very reason he has been so obsessed with advocating strict gender roles?

[Cleopatra7]

What does Jen do for a living? Does anyone know? I just realized that it's odd that Jen is pouring all this energy into running a tabloid-y website when she could be turning her experience into a legitimate book deal. People love books about cults, so I don't see why she's giving away all this dirt (the stuff that actually happened to her, not the Hero stuff) for free.

[thoughtful]

I do, too, debrand. If you look at Doug's beliefs and history, is it really so hard to imagine that the only "turn-ons" he would need are power and control, to the point where the gender of any of his sex partners would be irrelevant? And that his own internal struggle with that might be the very reason he has been so obsessed with advocating strict gender roles?

I actually meant that his sexuality is moot, as far as I'm concerned - as in, nothing would surprise me, and it really doesn't matter to me.

But I see your point - he could be someone who just wants control and narcissistic supply, and will do anything to anyone to get it.

[nelliebelle1197]

What does Jen do for a living? Does anyone know? I just realized that it's odd that Jen is pouring all this energy into running a tabloid-y website when she could be turning her experience into a legitimate book deal. People love books about cults, so I don't see why she's giving away all this dirt (the stuff that actually happened to her, not the Hero stuff) for free.

That is a really interesting point. In her ferver to destroy Doug and get revenge, rational thought like that is probably not her friend.

[ThisOlGirl]

Yeah, keep threatening to out folks, Eston, and see how quickly you find yourself outed. Somebody knows who this jackhole is and honestly, I can't wait to find out. Then maybe people will start going through Eston's closet and see what kind of skeletons fall out. He sounds like a C-list VF/ATI hanger-on, and I get the feeling his beliefs are just as despicable as The Tool's. I doubt that his hands are completely clean. I'm kinda over both Eston & Jen.

This may have been brought up before, but could TW Eston be First Name Starts With T Weston? Tom Weston, Tim Weston? Are there any well known Westons in any fundie circles? Just a thought.