We're Always Learning New Things with Ken Alexander: Part 2

[Curious]

Would it be fair to say that Ken has caused quite a ruckus for Lori and her blog? First he comes to the forum to "defend" his wife and ends up talking about their sex life and promising to "be more careful" about what they post. Then he sends Cabinet Man over here, only to draw attention to more problems with Lori's blog, causing Cabinet Man to ask them to delete several items. Somehow I think his plan didn't work out as he'd hoped.

For some reason when I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "and it would have worked if it weren't for those meddling kids!" :character-daphne: :character-fred: :character-velma: :character-shaggy: :auto-mysterymachine:

(wtf: we don't have a scooby? I'll have to fix that next time I go smiley hunting)

[OkToBeTakei]

Can I ask what the bold means? I've never heard that phrase before.

Thanks :)

There are several different models of church planting. One is called the “parachute†or "parachute drop" method. In this method, a church planter and family move into a new location to start a church from scratch. Another method is for an existing church or church planting organization, known as the mother church, to provide the initial leadership and resources (money and/or people) to start a new, or daughter, church. This may also be done by a group of organizations working together. In the house or cell church method, small groups, which meet in homes and are called cells, form and multiply using a relational model (see house church). Some cell groups are networked with one another and periodically meet together in a larger group. A church may also be planted when an existing church splits. Finally, the expansion of a Multi-site church may result in new churches being established.

Apparently it's that ^

I will never understand US religion.

For me it means this

:lol:

[Curious]

Apparently it's that ^

I will never understand US religion.

For me it means this

:lol:

You and your wily google-fu. I was just being lazy since I just woke up. Not a morning person at all :( I think I like your version better though ;)

[OkToBeTakei]

You and your wily google-fu. I was just being lazy since I just woke up. Not a morning person at all :( I think I like your version better though ;)

I'm off the evil feminist work. Time to google lots of stuff. I lost 4 hours of my life to the Khmer Rouge yesterday all because I watched a Cambodian recipe on TV. Make me do housework somebody? :lol:

[Curious]

Also, has it ever occurred to you that if you and your wife instilled good values at an early age, and your children are strong and happy in their beliefs, their faith could survive being held up to scrutiny in a college setting?

This! A million times this. All the people we follow seem to think the second their kids are around an "unapproved" person or situation they are immediately going to forget the values they have supposedly been taught their whole life and turn into some kind of raging non-Christian monster that will have to be disowned.

I don't understand the clear level of distrust in their children and their own parenting. The whole purpose of raising your kids is so you can let them go out into the world on their own. If you can't trust your kids to do that without immediately losing their values the first time they are tempted by something, then you did a pretty poor job as a parent.

[Curious]

I'm off the evil feminist work. Time to google lots of stuff. I lost 4 hours of my life to the Khmer Rouge yesterday all because I watched a Cambodian recipe on TV. Make me do housework somebody? :lol:

Isn't that your husband's job :shifty-kitty:

[formergothardite]

I hope some of my people never do this to any of you.

Actually people here have had people do worse. Any information was people figured out here about you was made publically available by you or your wife. Last year there was a blog that took private information about some members here and made it public. Someone that members had considered a friend and had allowed into their lives ended up being an evil backstabber who took their private pictures, names, work info, and addresses and made it public all while really nasty things.

We don't allow private info here and it was frowned upon to even put your wife's public FB that she made available up here.

[OkToBeTakei]

Isn't that your husband's job :shifty-kitty:

:lol:

I think a got a dud 'husband.'

[formergothardite]

Apparently it's that ^

I will never understand US religion.

For me it means this

:lol:

I will never understand US religion either and I live here. Probably 58%(I made that up if you can't tell) of churches are dying in this area so I don't know why anyone would start more instead of investing in reviving the old ones.

[salex]

I have not figured out what CM is even asking for? I have no idea where he lives, who he or his family is or anything about him other than the description of his treatment of his wife that he says Lori is removing and the various stuff he's posted about himself online (ie, he is stronger than all but 3.4 million men in the world... )

I don't know what he is wanting FJ as a group to do, but his consistent yammering about "please, stop doing that thing you do" makes me think he and ken cooked up a plan to set us up as rejecting the requests of both Ken and CM to try to strengthen Ken's imaginary Goggle suits.

I have yet to figure out what else the rest of the whining could possibly be about.

[latraviata]

I have not figured out what CM is even asking for? I have no idea where he lives, who he or his family is or anything about him other than the description of his treatment of his wife that he says Lori is removing and the various stuff he's posted about himself online (ie, he is stronger than all but 3.4 million men in the world... )

I don't know what he is wanting FJ as a group to do, but his consistent yammering about "please, stop doing that thing you do" makes me think he and ken cooked up a plan to set us up as rejecting the requests of both Ken and CM to try to strengthen Ken's imaginary Goggle suits.

I have yet to figure out what else the rest of the whining could possibly be about.

True leaders don't whine.

[Cabinetman]

Koala & the rest of FJ's,

I feel about the government like you feel about the patriarchal church. That is my level of trust with the government. My paranoia has nothing to with feeling guilty. My wife and kids are as safe and as loved as any family in America. Of this I have no doubt, at all. But just as you wouldn't trust the church to make decisions, that is our attitude towards the government. You can call us wrong or stupid for that. But as a business owner, someone who has both parents working for the government and have way to many stories from friends to not acknowledge our government is crooked and biased and not christian friendly. In most instances it's the luck of the draw in who you get, it's russian roulette, hoping this person someone sends out doesn't hate fundamentalist christians...and as your own site shows, many do. I can also prove that government has killed about 1,000 times more people than religion ever has. I can prove government does more oppression than christianity has. You think your paranoia at the church is justified, but scoff at mine and say my paranoia makes me guilty. If paranoia makes you guilty, you need to look in the mirror because the paranoia here is WAY more than I've shown.

You keep rationalizing away what your board members say and the hate spewed here..."well your side does it too" you keep saying. And I have admitted that, but that doesn't make it right. You keep justifying people going looking for me and family by saying, well it's happened to us! Well, that wasn't right that it happened to you. Or you say, breadcrumbs were left but don't acknowledge the hate on your side to follow those breadcrumbs.

The diference between what I've done that you classify as hate at Lori's is, I gave my opinion on something on a site that was directed at women who wanted to be there. It was not personal or directed at a person in general. Nor did I go looking for those who disagree with me.

What you have done is go way beyond anything I did. You spew hate at me and my family, for something that will never effect you or your family. Those listening to my advice were either there because they wanted Lori's opinion or it was folks like you who were there obviously don't agree with Lori. And then your members repost my wife's fb page and go looking for us. That's intent and it's creepy. If it was a man doing that to any of you, you'd find it creepy. There is a huge difference in telling someone who has a choice to submit or to stay home and is there of free choice, then there is calling someone an abuser, every vile name in the book and coming looking for them. If you can't see the difference you aren't being honest with yourself.

I'm sorry someone from "my people" did that to you. It wasn't right and if I could change those who would do such a thing I would and will in the future. But it's time to take a long look in the mirror and realize this group has more hate and less tolerance than just about any website I've ever been on. You can't see it because your not on the receiving end of it. So yes, you scare the hell out of us. If that makes you happy or doesn't even effect you then you've become way to calloused. You are the exact thing you preach against.

I tried being honest and straightforward and respectful to you. I was told I would not be treated fairly for my faith, which has been a lie in at least 50% of the comments back towards me. Sorry folks, I can't take what you dish out here. Thank you to the few members who treated me fairly during my time here.

[kpmom]

I'm off the evil feminist work. Time to google lots of stuff. I lost 4 hours of my life to the Khmer Rouge yesterday all because I watched a Cambodian recipe on TV. Make me do housework somebody? :lol:

Check your MOTH schedule. It's the next thing on there right after "Give hubby back rub" and "Clean ceiling fans".

[dawbs]

Do you ever wonder if people don't treat you fairly because you're lying?

I don't mean the big lies that people think of ("I work for the CIA, that's why I don't want to be outed. And my ex-wife is a super spy who is trying to find me")...I mean the little ones--the made-up-statistics lies. Because, yeah, those are lies. Black and white lies--they have the truthiness of you wanting them to be true and maybe believing they are true, but when you say a number, you should mean that number--otherwise, unless you specify it's a guess (not an estimate--an estimate is something else), it's a lie.

Like these lies:

50% of posters treated you unfairly.

You're stronger than 99% of men.

You can prove that government killed 10000 (or was it 1,000? To tired to go find the quote) more people than religion

we don't know 1% of what you do about PMDD

5% of girls are told to submit

The problem is that words *STILL* mean things when they're numbers.

When people don't know the difference between anecdote and statistics and don't know the difference between hyperbole and personal opinion, yeah, I tend to dismiss a lot of what they say out of hand--because they've proven they play fast and loose with the truth.

I don't think that I've treated you 'unfairly', but I don't trust people who lie--because if they are unfaithful in the little truths, they're likely to be unfaithful in the big ones.

[Tesseract]

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

So, CM's response to fear of the government is to increase the population with more submissive, uneducated people lacking in real world experience and critical thinking skills. Nothing like intentionally providing more sheep.

It not true that it doesn't have an effect on anyone else - his offspring are already affected. I don't remember off-hand, but did CM and/or Mrs. CM access higher education?

[Koala]

Koala & the rest of FJ's,

I feel about the government like you feel about the patriarchal church. That is my level of trust with the government. My paranoia has nothing to with feeling guilty. My wife and kids are as safe and as loved as any family in America. Of this I have no doubt, at all. But just as you wouldn't trust the church to make decisions, that is our attitude towards the government. You can call us wrong or stupid for that. But as a business owner, someone who has both parents working for the government and have way to many stories from friends to not acknowledge our government is crooked and biased and not christian friendly. In most instances it's the luck of the draw in who you get, it's russian roulette, hoping this person someone sends out doesn't hate fundamentalist christians...and as your own site shows, many do. I can also prove that government has killed about 1,000 times more people than religion ever has. I can prove government does more oppression than christianity has. You think your paranoia at the church is justified, but scoff at mine and say my paranoia makes me guilty. If paranoia makes you guilty, you need to look in the mirror because the paranoia here is WAY more than I've shown.

You keep rationalizing away what your board members say and the hate spewed here..."well your side does it too" you keep saying. And I have admitted that, but that doesn't make it right. You keep justifying people going looking for me and family by saying, well it's happened to us! Well, that wasn't right that it happened to you. Or you say, breadcrumbs were left but don't acknowledge the hate on your side to follow those breadcrumbs.

The diference between what I've done that you classify as hate at Lori's is, I gave my opinion on something on a site that was directed at women who wanted to be there. It was not personal or directed at a person in general. Nor did I go looking for those who disagree with me.

What you have done is go way beyond anything I did. You spew hate at me and my family, for something that will never effect you or your family. Those listening to my advice were either there because they wanted Lori's opinion or it was folks like you who were there obviously don't agree with Lori. And then your members repost my wife's fb page and go looking for us. That's intent and it's creepy. If it was a man doing that to any of you, you'd find it creepy. There is a huge difference in telling someone who has a choice to submit or to stay home and is there of free choice, then there is calling someone an abuser, every vile name in the book and coming looking for them. If you can't see the difference you aren't being honest with yourself.

I'm sorry someone from "my people" did that to you. It wasn't right and if I could change those who would do such a thing I would and will in the future. But it's time to take a long look in the mirror and realize this group has more hate and less tolerance than just about any website I've ever been on. You can't see it because your not on the receiving end of it. So yes, you scare the hell out of us. If that makes you happy or doesn't even effect you then you've become way to calloused. You are the exact thing you preach against.

I tried being honest and straightforward and respectful to you. I was told I would not be treated fairly for my faith, which has been a lie in at least 50% of the comments back towards me. Sorry folks, I can't take what you dish out here. Thank you to the few members who treated me fairly during my time here.

GIANT WALL OF TEXT. :eleventy: ( <--- because we don't have a smiley wearing a tin foil hat)

Suffice to say no one has crossed over into your real life? Because as I have said before, that would be a deal breaker and you should definitely get the authorities involved if that were the case. But to be honest I don't think "they clicked a link that led them directly to my wife's facebook account" is really going to stir up that much excitement. Speaking of which, you said the following:

And then your members repost my wife's fb page and go looking for us. That's intent and it's creepy.

Intent to what? Look at a facebook page? Let's be very clear when we are tossing around accusations. What exactly is it that you thought people showed "intent" to do? To the best of my knowledge, the facebook page in question didn't even reveal your wife's full name.

The part that really caught my attention was the bolded. Who has gone looking for you? Did someone show up at your home or place of business? Again, if that has happened, you need to be in contact with the authorities. Otherwise you need to gtfu and stop complaining. Seriously, we are not bound by your standards, and if you put your life out there for public consumption (or allow someone else to), and then link your facebook (and through facebook, your business), there is a good chance people will connect the dots. Especially when you allow yourself to be painted as a person who displays many of the characteristics of an abuser. Maybe people will figure out who you are are not patronize your business- that is their right. No one owes it to you to buy your cabinets (<---by far the strangest statement I've ever read on FJ). Maybe someone will figure out who you are and have authorities come out for a welfare check on your wife and kid(s). That is their right as long as they are making the report in good faith.

I get that you are saying that you didn't abuse your wife. I get that someone claiming to be your wife is saying she was not abused, but "disciplined". That's all fine, well, and good, but this is the internet. We don't know who we are talking to. You could be posting under both accounts. You could be a troll and this could all be some MRA fantasy. You could have your wife locked in a cabin in the woods against her will. The options are endless. Bottom line, the internet is forever, and Lori (and you via comments) have painted a very scary picture of you as a husband. Some people say you should be upset with her, but I can't fathom why. You have admitted yourself that you approved the story before it was ever posted.

I think what you really thought is what Ken thought. I think you thought you were preaching to the choir, and people were going to praise and back pat you like Ken and Lori did. Hell, they lauded you a hero. But that's not how the internet works. It's much bigger than that, and if you put it out there publicly, you have to assume that the public will read it- not just the subset that agrees with you.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This! A million times this. All the people we follow seem to think the second their kids are around an "unapproved" person or situation they are immediately going to forget the values they have supposedly been taught their whole life and turn into some kind of raging non-Christian monster that will have to be disowned.

I don't understand the clear level of distrust in their children and their own parenting. The whole purpose of raising your kids is so you can let them go out into the world on their own. If you can't trust your kids to do that without immediately losing their values the first time they are tempted by something, then you did a pretty poor job as a parent.

THIS!!!

I've been around some folks in real life as well as online who want to raise the religious equivalent of hot-house flowers. The more they see their children as holy and pure, the more they are terrified that the slightest thing - wrong music, wrong friends, wrong school, wrong glimpse of the opposite sex, wrong books, etc. - will set them off course.

To me, that's completely backward. Can anyone guarantee that they will always be able to live a completely sheltered life? We have no idea what the future holds. Ironically, in my community, you have a prime example of that since pretty much everyone comes from a family that had to pick up and flee from somewhere else over the past 120 years. So, if I can't guarantee a perfectly sheltered life for my kids, shouldn't I be preparing them to weather future challenges? As well, I don't think that we can change the world for the better by just hunkering down in isolation - improving things is going to mean getting involved with people who may not be perfect.

There is a saying that we need to give our kids roots and wings. Yes, I'll make sure that my kids have a strong foundation, including a solid family life and a firm commitment to our values. After that, though, I need to give them wings - the tools that they will need when they are far from home and facing challenges and everything is turbulent, to know what's truly important and to be committed to their core values.

My university didn't offer anything in the way of partying or a social life, but there was plenty of radical politics. It slammed me way out of my comfort zone, but that was ultimately a good thing because I was forced to confront and examine and defend every single thing that I believed. There was no middle-of-the-road mainstream opinion there, where "liberal" was considered a dirty word for someone who was too right-wing and not radical enough. The end result, by the way, was that I was fairly socialist when I started, and ended up far more conservative (by Canadian standards) and religious by graduation. I do remember being upset that I hadn't been prepared properly to deal with some political issues, and hated being confronted with stuff that I knew was BS but left standing with nothing to say because I didn't know the issues well enough. You win arguments by being prepared and knowing exactly what your opponent will say....and then being able to explain the faults in their position.

[Koala]

As a side note, if your purpose here is to gain assurance that authorities won't be contacted, we can't do that. Sure I could say that I won't. Hell, I could have a contract drawn up saying I won't report you, but then how would you want that signed? How about:

~Koala (who speaks for the internet)

:roll: We have posters here who will grant you no such assurance, and scads of lurkers. No one here can guarantee you any such thing.

This is all reminiscent of Ken thinking we can magic control Google, and about as silly as Lori's (barely coherent) threat to sue them.

[Mecca]

Awesome. We get yet another great big wall of text and still have no idea what this guy is rambling about.

Again, stop with the riddles. What has someone ACTUALLY done to you and your family here? Can you prove whatever was done came from someone here? And before you answer that, please understand that posting public information that was found on the internet via your wife is not a crime. Also, understand that clicking on a link that your wife ultimately provided is not a crime.

Personally, I do not feel sorry for you. You claim to have been misrepresented on Lori's blog, yet you are OK with it and give Lori a pass in doing so. That right there speaks volumes about your truthfulness, so you are going to have to forgive me when I say you are full of crap, and I do not believe much of what you have to say. It appears you and your BBF came here trying to cook up some trouble. Yeah, you two may think the women here are idiots and will believe every word you type, but we can smell BS a mile away. And you, CB, are full of it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Question for Ken and CM:

Once upon a time, I followed a blog by an atheist who was very angry at her former religion. She was also very angry that her religious parents did not accept her atheist husband. On her blog, she made her husband sound like the most wonderful guy ever.

She had a link on her sidebar to her husband's blog. Since it was there, I clicked it. From his blog, it was also easy to find a few articles he had written elsewhere.

QUESTION: Was it wrong for me to suggest in a comment on her blog that maybe her Mr. Wonderful wasn't so perfect if he was posting rape jokes and articles about how Hitler was actually a great leader?

[i do think that she showed a shocking lack of discretion, since I was also able to figure out her and her husband's real names with just a few more clicks and since she and her husband would post photos of themselves on their blogs. I periodically wondered if maybe that was part of the reason that he seemed to be incapable of landing a job, but I never did any real-life contact.]

[Koala]

Awesome. We get yet another great big wall of text and still have no idea what this guy is rambling about.

Again, stop with the riddles. What has someone ACTUALLY done to you and your family here? Can you prove whatever was done came from someone here? And before you answer that, please understand that posting public information that was found on the internet via your wife is not a crime. Also, understand that clicking on a link that your wife ultimately provided is not a crime.

Personally, I do not feel sorry for you. You claim to have been misrepresented on Lori's blog, yet you are OK with it and give Lori a pass in doing so. That right there speaks volumes about your truthfulness, so you are going to have to forgive me when I say you are full of crap, and I do not believe much of what you have to say. It appears you and your BBF came here trying to cook up some trouble. Yeah, you two may think the women here are idiots and will believe every word you type, but we can smell BS a mile away. And you, CB, are full of it.

This exactly. He has fully admitted that he approved the post before it was ever published. If he was misrepresented, it was with his full consent.

[Tesseract]

There is a huge difference in choosing to be in a submissive 1950's sitcom view of white middle class marriage than being trapped in one because the tools you need to choose otherwise were withheld.

Thankfully, our larger culture, those ungodly people, will help support and pick up the pieces if/when these children want more than the limited options they are presented with.

[usmcmom]

Koala & the rest of FJ's,

I feel about the government like you feel about the patriarchal church. That is my level of trust with the government. My paranoia has nothing to with feeling guilty. My wife and kids are as safe and as loved as any family in America. Of this I have no doubt, at all. But just as you wouldn't trust the church to make decisions, that is our attitude towards the government. You can call us wrong or stupid for that. But as a business owner, someone who has both parents working for the government and have way to many stories from friends to not acknowledge our government is crooked and biased and not christian friendly. In most instances it's the luck of the draw in who you get, it's russian roulette, hoping this person someone sends out doesn't hate fundamentalist christians...and as your own site shows, many do. I can also prove that government has killed about 1,000 times more people than religion ever has. I can prove government does more oppression than christianity has. You think your paranoia at the church is justified, but scoff at mine and say my paranoia makes me guilty. If paranoia makes you guilty, you need to look in the mirror because the paranoia here is WAY more than I've shown.

You keep rationalizing away what your board members say and the hate spewed here..."well your side does it too" you keep saying. And I have admitted that, but that doesn't make it right. You keep justifying people going looking for me and family by saying, well it's happened to us! Well, that wasn't right that it happened to you. Or you say, breadcrumbs were left but don't acknowledge the hate on your side to follow those breadcrumbs.

The diference between what I've done that you classify as hate at Lori's is, I gave my opinion on something on a site that was directed at women who wanted to be there. It was not personal or directed at a person in general. Nor did I go looking for those who disagree with me.

What you have done is go way beyond anything I did. You spew hate at me and my family, for something that will never effect you or your family. Those listening to my advice were either there because they wanted Lori's opinion or it was folks like you who were there obviously don't agree with Lori. And then your members repost my wife's fb page and go looking for us. That's intent and it's creepy. If it was a man doing that to any of you, you'd find it creepy. There is a huge difference in telling someone who has a choice to submit or to stay home and is there of free choice, then there is calling someone an abuser, every vile name in the book and coming looking for them. If you can't see the difference you aren't being honest with yourself.

I'm sorry someone from "my people" did that to you. It wasn't right and if I could change those who would do such a thing I would and will in the future. But it's time to take a long look in the mirror and realize this group has more hate and less tolerance than just about any website I've ever been on. You can't see it because your not on the receiving end of it. So yes, you scare the hell out of us. If that makes you happy or doesn't even effect you then you've become way to calloused. You are the exact thing you preach against.

I tried being honest and straightforward and respectful to you. I was told I would not be treated fairly for my faith, which has been a lie in at least 50% of the comments back towards me. Sorry folks, I can't take what you dish out here. Thank you to the few members who treated me fairly during my time here.

Wait. Cabinet Man, do you think that FJ IS the government? That we all WORK for the government? :cray-cray: Frankly, that offends me. I am smarter than 88% of our government. (statistics from the Department of Little Ol Me)

And see the bolded letters up there? Do you realize how wrong they are? You posted because some ladies were asking for Lori's opinion?!? Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, those women are there to hear from other women? The Bible instructs OLDER WOMEN to teach the younger women, which is, I assume why Lori feels called to maintain her blog. Why do you and Ken feel the need to weigh in?

[Loveday]

Wait. Cabinet Man, do you think that FJ IS the government? That we all WORK for the government? :cray-cray: Frankly, that offends me. I am smarter than 88% of our government. (statistics from the Department of Little Ol Me)

And see the bolded letters up there? Do you realize how wrong they are? You posted because some ladies were asking for Lori's opinion?!? Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, those women are there to hear from other women? The Bible instructs OLDER WOMEN to teach the younger women, which is, I assume why Lori feels called to maintain her blog. Why do you and Ken feel the need to weigh in?

This is what I have been wondering for quite some time. And coincidentally, today's post on Lori's blog was written by...Ken. Again.

[formergothardite]

I asked Ken that question and his answer was that technically the Bible doesn't say older men can't mentor younger women so his participation in Lori's blog is all good.