We're Always Learning New Things with Ken Alexander: Part 2

[Coconut Flan]

Ken sounds quite a bit like Gothard thinking the highest achievement in parenting is having teens who don't rebel.

[formergothardite]

Ken sounds quite a bit like Gothard thinking the highest achievement in parenting is having teens who don't rebel.

The teens might not have rebelled but look how it turned out when all those teens got in their 20's 30's and 40's. Not many are still following the Gothard path to righteousness. How old are Ken and Lori's kids? I know they are adults but don't several rely on Ken for a job? That is a mighty big incentive to not openly disagree with how Ken and Lori raised them.

Maybe Lori finally figured out how to review comments before they are published so the evil Free Jinger feminists can't see all the comments she deletes.

[OkToBeTakei]

She started off using a spoon but then tried it on herself and said it hurt too much. She knew all those things about using the hand also but they felt like they were in control so much more when they used their hand. Every parent needs to decide what they feel the most comfortable using and make sure they don't cause harm to the child. {The bottom is the perfect place to spank since it has a nice padding on it! :)}

How stupid does Lori think her readers are?

Yeah Lori we know 'she' means you.

[Koala]

From the post:

They only spanked their children if they disobeyed them and never in anger.

Cabinetman:

made sure we were not doing it in anger

Reader:

make sure never ever to spank in anger. Anger and spanking can be dangerous.

Lori Alexander:

I spanked my children when I was angry

Lori Alexander:

I spanked in anger sometimes

Look at that Lori...even your core audience disagrees with you. Think that qualifies as defamation?

Lori Alexander:

She started off using a spoon but then tried it on herself and said it hurt too much.

Lori Alexander:

I told her she must take a wooden spoon or some other object and spank him on his bottom hard enough so it will hurt.

Cognitive dissonance thy name is Brit:

We do it the exact same way/ order except we now use a wooden spoon after watching Chip Ingrams parenting series. He believes you should always use an object (to cause a stinging sensation) and never a hand. A hand is actually easier to cause bruising. He said the hand that loves should never be the hand that causes pain.

Question for you there Brit, what exactly do you wield the wooden spoon with?? The hand you say?!?! :roll:

Brit again:

I have made the wooden spoon my reminder to calm down before I discipline.

Makes perfect sense. Nothing brings calm like reflecting on a wooden spoon before you use it to hit your children. :angry-steamingears:

[polecat]

How stupid does Lori think her readers are?

Yeah Lori we know 'she' means you.

Judging from this quote,

We recently adopted 2 sisters ages 11 and 16, and oh my, are they dreadfully behaved!!!! As a Godly wife and mother, what do you think I should do? I am almost certain spanking would do a world of good, but am worried that we may be judged.

I'd guess that at least some of her readers are pretty stupid.

[2xx1xy1JD]

from http://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18500 ... the-church

People like Lori are the reasons pedophiles enjoy church. Children are taught, from a VERY young age, to listen to authority. Lori and her ilk play right into this trap. There are reasons, and sometimes very good reasons, why a child does not want to talk to, or spend time with, an adult.

I never make my children talk to anyone that they don't want to. Especially at a young age.

That quote is not from a neutral expert source, but from the Freedom From Religion website.

There is ample evidence that child molesters seek out opportunities to abuse children, looking for both contact with children and places where they can be in a position of trust. These include not just religious roles, but positions such as foster parent, youth group leader, teacher, sports coach, etc.

The claim that "crime is connected to the religious mentality" is not supported by evidence. It's mere opinion. Nor is there any evidence from the suggestion that religious organizations somehow CAUSE people to become molesters.

What is a major concern with religious organizations is increased vulnerability due to:

1. Increased level of respect and deference for authority figures.

2. In some cases, children getting less sex education and exposure to anti-abuse messages, esp. if they do not attend public school and avoid mainstream media.

3. Tendency for some religious organizations to cover up instead of reporting abuse.

4. Influence that an organization has over not just children but adults in a community

[Cran]

How can anyone claim to be raising children successfully when there's a need to spank them continuously? If you have to spank again and again, it does obviously NOT WORK.

Repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results = definition of insanity.

[formergothardite]

I read this quote from Helen Keller today and thought of Ken.

People don’t like to think, if one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant

His walls of text were giant ways to not think while trying to look like he was.

Lori's readers(the readers who aren't reading in horror) don't seem to be great thinkers so I doubt they remember that she has written about spanking in anger because her kids made her so mad.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Judging from this quote,

I'd guess that at least some of her readers are pretty stupid.

I think I might be sick at the thought that someone would consider hitting an 11 & 16 year old adopted children. How about a little understanding of what their lives have been up to this point? How about family & individual therapy for these girls as you try to integrate them into your home?

I'm an adoptive mom of an older child and I never considered spanking him for his bad behavior. Besides the physical impossibility of it, I have a memory of my older brother picking me up, flipping me upside down while holding my by my feet and spanking me. HARD. I was about 11, and It was humiliating.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I haven't looked at Lori's blog, but why are Ken and Cabinet Man answering questions and basically running the show there? I thought the purpose of it was for women to go there and ask Lori for advice, not him or any other man?

I'm more than a little concerned that the one thing Ken may have learned from his time on Free Jinger is that he has to maintain greater control over the women in his life, lest they disagree with him and start behaving in a manner that he feels isn't "Godly."

[jerkit]

If I hear Lori say "tickle my ears" one more time, I'm going to tear my hair out.

[cindyluvs24]

When my kids were little, we had a rhyme of my own invention. It went like this (modestly clears throat), "Say hello, say goodbye, look at people in the eye."

I'd sing it a few times as we were pulling up to someone's house, to remind them. Usually it worked. However, now that they are older, they say hello just fine (no singing needed, let alone hitting!). Why is hitting always the default response?

Yup. My son has Aspergers so I used to use little ways like this to make it as non-threatening as possible for him to interact with the world. Most social "rules" come naturally but for these kids, they need to "learn" them. If I had smacked him for being "rebellious" a'la Lori, he'd be in a padded cell or a psychopath by now.

[milkncookies76]

I think I might be sick at the thought that someone would consider hitting an 11 & 16 year old adopted children. How about a little understanding of what their lives have been up to this point? How about family & individual therapy for these girls as you try to integrate them into your home?

I'm an adoptive mom of an older child and I never considered spanking him for his bad behavior. Besides the physical impossibility of it, I have a memory of my older brother picking me up, flipping me upside down while holding my by my feet and spanking me. HARD. I was about 11, and It was humiliating.

Da fuq? That is awful. Like really, really awful. Judging by the fundies love of adopting from China, Africa, and India, I think there's a good chance those poor girls are from one of those places. New culture, new language, (maybe) new names and religion, and if you complain, you get beaten. Lovely. :pull-hair:

[Koala]

Something about this story isn't making sense.

Let's look at the comments from the adoptive mom:

I only wish every parent could read this blog and heed this advice! We have 4 children ages 3 to 13 and we certainly trained them the way they should go, making sure to never discipline in anger. It has worked brilliantly- our two oldest are 13 and 11 and they have not been regularly spanked in the past three years. Our two younger ones are 7 and 3, and they both get an occasional spanking. But like you said- they are so much better behaved! We recently adopted 2 sisters ages 11 and 16, and oh my, are they dreadfully behaved!!!! As a Godly wife and mother, what do you think I should do? I am almost certain spanking would do a world of good, but am worried that we may be judged.

I will definitely seek counsel from our pastor before implementing any serious discipline.

It's been tough though: they were basically raised as savages and don't seem to follow anything I tell them. I will defenitly try our version of "big kid time out" though, (being placed in a quiet room with a Bible), and occasionally implement spanking as a discipline tool for them.

When they first came home, I seemed to think that she was just "one of the kids", and that I could spank her if need be. Regrettably, I was having a rough day, and after a few swats, she began to cry, babble at me in her native toungue, and struggle against me. That was when I decided to rethink my parenting strategy.

We meet with our pastor every wends day night, and our church has a support group for adoptive moms.

First she says she thinks it will do a world of good. Then she says she's already done it, but decided to rethink her parenting strategy. Then she comes back again and said she will implement it on occasion.

Next she claims they "babble in their native tongue" (which I take to mean: I am too fucking stupid to recognize that people speaking in another language aren't "babbling"). Then she claims that she locks them in a room with a Bible. :angry-cussingblack:

I have two special needs nephews (both adopted from China as toddlers). This lady is literally making my blood boil. She has no business around ANY children, especially high needs adopted ones.

[polecat]

Something about this story isn't making sense.

Let's look at the comments from the adoptive mom:

First she says she thinks it will do a world of good. Then she says she's already done it, but decided to rethink her parenting strategy. Then she comes back again and said she will implement it on occasion.

Next she claims they "babble in their native tongue" (which I take to mean: I am too fucking stupid to recognize that people speaking in another language aren't "babbling"). Then she claims that she locks them in a room with a Bible. :angry-cussingblack:

I have two special needs nephews (both adopted from China as toddlers). This lady is literally making my blood boil. She has no business around ANY children, especially high needs adopted ones.

Of course she started to cry and use her native language! Can you imagine moving to a strange country where you knew no one, where the customs were strange, where you didn't even speak the language? And then the person who was supposed to be caring for you started hitting you?

Do these people literally have no empathy for others? WTH is wrong with them? None of this is normal.

[formergothardite]

Lori doesn't reply to Prudence. Tell us again what a wise mentor she is Ken. This is the woman who can't even advise a woman who is thinking of spanking her older just adopted kids.

[usmcmom]

Lori doesn't reply to Prudence. Tell us again what a wise mentor she is Ken. This is the woman who can't even advise a woman who is thinking of spanking her older just adopted kids.

Oh Cabinet Man's got this one. He reminds her that it's important not to let the adopted kids rub off on her other kids.

[Pam]

As a Godly wife and mother, what do you think I should do?

Maybe start with viewing them as also being God's children no matter what, and not as savages that babble at you in their native tongue. I dunno, those statements of hers just rubbed me the wrong way.

[formergothardite]

I really hope that is just a troll, but the sad thing is, you can't tell because people do treat their adopted kids that bad.

[Pam]

Oh Cabinet Man's got this one. He reminds her that it's important not to let the adopted kids rub off on her other kids.

Because they're what, some kind of contagious disease that it's her mission to cure, being the Godly mother she is and all?

[milkncookies76]

I really hope that is just a troll, but the sad thing is, you can't tell because people do treat their adopted kids that bad.

God, I really hope it is just a Poe. But even if it is, there still are mf-ers who do that to kids. :angry-cussingblack: :angry-cussingblack:

[Rescinded and Mended]

What exactly is the deal with DresserDude, anyway? I've been scrolling through some of his posts, and it's clear that he has a serious problem with women and is dealing with feelings of inferiority.

[Koala]

Her reply:

Hopefully, once we get discipline under control, they will get saved and their behavior will be a thing of the past. They grew up in a country where only a tiny minority of the country is Christian, so I can understand a lot of what they do.

So her plan is to discipline them into salvation. :angry-banghead:

I am an atheist, but this seems an appropriate verse for a "godly" woman liker herself:

It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.

[formergothardite]

He is one of those guys who only likes women when he can control them.

Apparently for years his wife dared to be "difficult" so DresserDude drug her off to a cabin in the woods, isolated her from all friends and family, cut her off from money and transportation, diagnosed her with several mental illnesses, and kept her like that till she learned to submit to him. He still micromanages her life and doesn't let her do much besides homeschool because according to him that is what makes her happy. Her friends, family and church thought he was abusive and encouraged her to leave his ass.

Ken saw no red flags for abuse in any of that. Might be why he also says he has never seen any abuse in his church.

[milkncookies76]

Her reply:

So her plan is to discipline them into salvation. :angry-banghead:

I am an atheist, but this seems an appropriate verse for a "godly" woman liker herself:

It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.

Why so many fundies ignore that verse, I have no idea.

I kinda wanna know what country her kids are from. Judging by the "tiny minority is Christian" remark, I'm thinking India. Which means they have to reject their native Hinduism or Islam. Fuck that bitch.