Teri Maxwell is such a bitch

[16strong]

Basically a gp referred me to the psych department. I talked to a psych rise mostly and then a psych doctor came into the room. For some strange reason they didn't seem to think I needed therapy.

Also, the building is hard to get to. The city bus doesn't go there and I don't have a car. (I can drive, just can't afford it.)

At his pint I'd rather to somewhere else but I have no idea where that'd be.

1. Wait...you don't need to drive to get to Free Jinger, unless you mean you go to the library to use the internet and said library is not along any bus routes.

2. Now come on....we're not THAT crazy. Name calling isn't nice.

3. Don't leave us! You DO belong here!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[already hungover]

For me it was more than typical startup symptoms, though I had those too. I mean that the walls and room literally stared moving, like thing to play a new video game on an old computer where the images won't load properly and the lag is just HORRIBLE. After about 2 weeks of hat nonsense, I have up on that particular pill. 3 pills later, I still haven found one that doesn't produce this affect.

I am getting rather discouraged.

Yes, keep trying. My BFF needed to try A BUNCH of SSRIs before she found a good one.

Get this - fluoxetine made her lactate spontaneously. So, on the bright side, you're not experiencing that.

[NurseNell]

I'm still trying to find an anti depressant that doesn't make the room spin. You have no idea how much I envy those of you who have success with them.

It can be very difficult to find the right anti-depressant. Everyone reacts differently, even to the same medication and dose. I am on Lexapro, it works great for me. I was on paxil, which also worked but caused seizures.

A few people mentioned wellbutrin. I had a friend on it, to quit smoking, she was also depressed. OMG, she became super bitch on it, and she said it made her feel like a crazy woman. She quit it and went back to smoking, which in her case was better. :cracking-up:

So I hope you can find the right one for you.

[moodygirl86]

That Terri has the balls to criticize people who get help: I think she's jealous that other people had options that Steve refused her. Steve once e-mailed me in response to a comment I left on the blog regarding anti-depressant use. Basically, he told me I was wrong for considering the use of medication when all you need is Jesus. I don't think I saved the reply, but it pissed me off. If we can use all other sorts of modern conveniences, like electricity and modern transportation, why not meds?

I suspect fundies' problem with antidepressants and meds is because it might actually help people function and -shock horror- we can't have that now, can we. If a person is in an extreme depressive state (like Teri for example), I would guess an unscrupulous type (Steve) is able to control them easier.

[singsingsing]

The thing that gets me is that these people are generally not anti modern medicine. So chemotherapy is okay, blood transfusions are okay, putting a cast on a broken limb is okay, braces are okay, taking pain killers for a headache is okay, but if you're so depressed or anxious that you can't function, you're just not trusting Jesus enough? By their own internal logic their argument makes no sense.

[Mama Mia]

It can be very difficult to find the right anti-depressant. Everyone reacts differently, even to the same medication and dose. I am on Lexapro, it works great for me. I was on paxil, which also worked but caused seizures.

A few people mentioned wellbutrin. I had a friend on it, to quit smoking, she was also depressed. OMG, she became super bitch on it, and she said it made her feel like a crazy woman. She quit it and went back to smoking, which in her case was better. :cracking-up:

So I hope you can find the right one for you.

I have a relative who had the exact same experience with Wellbutrin , including returning to smoking. It was so bad that everyone was incredibly relived when she finally bought cigarettes.

[Palimpsest]

I thought about Teri's depression while reading the Moody books. Mama Moody is either pregnant or taking care of newborn twins during the early books, but even considering the circumstances, it seems that the woman just isn't there. The Moody kids have to fix their own breakfast, do morning Bible study themselves, take care of the four-year-old sister, etc. I couldn't help but wonder if this was how things were during Teri's depression, with all the worst aspects of it taken out because a) it's a children's book, and b) these are the Maxwells.

I think the bolded above are very acute observations. From what Teri has said, in the Mom's Corners and in the Managers of Our Homes presentation I sat through, her reactions to being depressed were to: a) grab a child or children and pull them into the prayer closet to weep and wail over their sins with them for hours; and b) to let things go around the home. That included home-schooling lessons and non-essential housework (dusting ceiling fans being her classic example). I don't care about the housework, so long as they weren't living in total squalor, but she definitely let the home schooling go. That is why she thinks she is so clever recommending these days that kids can teach each other. Of course they can, she didn't invent that, but they shouldn't teach each other exclusively!

As to the effect on Sarah and her other children, let's let Teri speak for herself. "From a Journey through Depression." written in September 2000. titus2.com/corners/moms-corner/a-journey-through-depression.html

If it is any encouragement, I asked my older children if they remembered the struggles I had during those early, difficult days of their lives. My older boys (21 and 23) remember nothing negative. Can you believe the Lord can blind our children to what is going on inside of us especially when so much of it is easily visible? My 18 year old daughter only remembers one time that I was really struggling. I don't share that as a license to allow the hormones or depression to control your life and emotions. Rather I tell it to help you to not feel that it is ever hopeless because there is too much emotional damage already done to you and to the children.

No, I can't believe the Lord blinded Teri's children to her depression. I think Nathan, Chris and Sarah lied to her back then in fear that an honest answer would send their fragile mother spiralling back down into the depression she was just recovering from. Or they have chosen to forget - perhaps dissociate from - the worst memories as a coping mechanism. I do agree with Teri that it is never too late to get help.

She then claims that she is no longer depressed - and given her age (mid-late 40s in 2000) she is beginning menopause.

Twenty-three years ago I would never have believed where the Lord has brought me in relation to depression. I thought it was impossible to be free of it, but I am. The process was gradual. I wanted it to happen right away. Looking back, fifteen years isn't all that long to lose what was such a devastating, negative part of my life.

[kpmom]

I think one reason fundies don't go in for medication for depression, and other "emotional" issues is that it would take away from their testimonies.

You can't say God and prozac took away my depression, it just wouldn't hold water in fundie circles.

I recall when Teri wrote a Corner on John's behavior as a child, Part of his testimony, she says, is telling people if he had been in public school instead of homeschooled he probably would have been put on ADHD meds.

Instead, his parents prayed and solved his issues that way.

A much better testimony, and God gets the credit, not Concerta.

[anjulibai]

I think one reason fundies don't go in for medication for depression, and other "emotional" issues is that it would take away from their testimonies.

You can't say God and prozac took away my depression, it just wouldn't hold water in fundie circles.

I recall when Teri wrote a Corner on John's behavior as a child, Part of his testimony, she says, is telling people if he had been in public school instead of homeschooled he probably would have been put on ADHD meds.

Instead, his parents prayed and solved his issues that way.

A much better testimony, and God gets the credit, not Concerta.

See, the thing about that (and what fundies don't think about - well, a lot of people actually, not just fundies) is that the medication for any mental health issue, whether it be depression ro ADHD, doesn't take away ALL the symptoms. There's still work to be done.

I've been on anti-depressants for over a decade now, and I need them to function. But I still have to work through lots of issues related to my depression with psychotherapy and cognitive behavior therapy. Yes, I have a chemical imbalance in the brain, but I also have neuroses that I developed to compensate for that imbalance and for various problems in my life.

My husband has ADHD, and he takes Ritalin, and has since childhood. But he still had to develop coping mechanisms and learn how to manage the behaviors and inattention that the Ritalin couldn't completely take away. It's something he works on continuously. He can't function without his meds, but taking the meds just means that can work develop betting coping methods.

Fundies (and others) could still have testimonies about how God led them to medication. They could thank God for making sure that medication got developed, and thank God for giving them the a chance to work through their issues in other ways.

[Trynn]

I think it IS very possible that the kids might NOT have known what was going on at the time. Sarah, having to do the bulk of the housework, would've noticed it more, but the boys? Are never expected to do half that stuff anyway, so how would they have noticed?

And Sarah might have noticed that mom suddenly dumped work on her, but depending how good mom was at hiding it, she might not know why. I know if my mom suddenly told me she struggled with depression I'd be shocked (but not surprised) because she NEVER shows any sort of emotion at all.

[browngrl]

I've just read the Mom's and Dad's corners from September 2000.

Where I agree (somewhat) with the Maxwells: I think that good sleep, exercise, a healthy diet, journalling to write down good or positive things, and meditation (which I think is part of what prayer is) are all useful tools in the treatment of depression. Steve mentions that his wife's depression was decreased when he was not travelling so much and was home to help and I do think that family and spousal support is also an important tool to treat depression.

Where I differ greatly from Steve and Teri: I think that counselling by a trained professional and medications are also useful (and often essential) tools to treat depression - not something to be feared or shunned. I also think that depression affects everyone in the family - I think that the children were more affected by Teri's depression than they will admit publicly.

Where I am in total opposition to Steve and Teri: I think that being judgemental has no place in the treatment of depression. I think that depression is a real illness that can not simply be prayed away.

What I just don't understand: Why would anyone want to believe in the God/religion that Steve and Terri promote? It seems so mean spirited and judgemental that I don't understand how people could be attracted to it.

[Trynn]

When I was a fundy lite Christian, I didn't want to believe it either, but I felt I had to, because back then I felt it was real and that if I didn't, there would be consequences, and I don't just mean hell.

[Palimpsest]

I've just read the Mom's and Dad's corners from September 2000.

Where I agree (somewhat) with the Maxwells: I think that good sleep, exercise, a healthy diet, journalling to write down good or positive things, and meditation (which I think is part of what prayer is) are all useful tools in the treatment of depression. Steve mentions that his wife's depression was decreased when he was not travelling so much and was home to help and I do think that family and spousal support is also an important tool to treat depression.

Where I differ greatly from Steve and Teri: I think that counselling by a trained professional and medications are also useful (and often essential) tools to treat depression - not something to be feared or shunned. I also think that depression affects everyone in the family - I think that the children were more affected by Teri's depression than they will admit publicly.

Where I am in total opposition to Steve and Teri: I think that being judgemental has no place in the treatment of depression. I think that depression is a real illness that can not simply be prayed away.

What I just don't understand: Why would anyone want to believe in the God/religion that Steve and Terri promote? It seems so mean spirited and judgemental that I don't understand how people could be attracted to it.

ITA with everything you said about the useful tools in combating depression. I don't quarrel with those either.

The big problem with Steve and Teri is that they actively condemn the use of medication by others. Their teachings on depression are both seductively oversimplified for their misguided flock and extremely dangerous.

[kpmom]

Fundies (and others) could still have testimonies about how God led them to medication. They could thank God for making sure that medication got developed, and thank God for giving them the a chance to work through their issues in other ways.

But then they wouldn't be different (i.e., better) than any medication taking heathen out there.

[SunnyAndrsn]

The thing that gets me is that these people are generally not anti modern medicine. So chemotherapy is okay, blood transfusions are okay, putting a cast on a broken limb is okay, braces are okay, taking pain killers for a headache is okay, but if you're so depressed or anxious that you can't function, you're just not trusting Jesus enough? By their own internal logic their argument makes no sense.

Yup, and Steve told me I was wrong when I presented it that there is no difference between mental health care and the care of your physical health.

Sadly, enough people who are NOT fundie agree with him, which is why we are still so far away from mental health parity.

[Mama Mia]

I think one reason fundies don't go in for medication for depression, and other "emotional" issues is that it would take away from their testimonies.

You can't say God and prozac took away my depression, it just wouldn't hold water in fundie circles.

I recall when Teri wrote a Corner on John's behavior as a child, Part of his testimony, she says, is telling people if he had been in public school instead of homeschooled he probably would have been put on ADHD meds.

Instead, his parents prayed and solved his issues that way.

A much better testimony, and God gets the credit, not Concerta.

I don't think it would be God getting rid of the ADHD, it's that ADHD is much more obvious in a classroom situation. Sitting still for large chunks of time trying to focus on what the teacher is saying while there are thirty other people in the room is, often, a nightmare for the kid and the whole class.

One of my kids has very severe ADHD and lots of difficulties with medications. Public School was a horrible, horrible situation for him. While homeschooling was tough, at least he was able to fidget, take breaks to run, do lots of hands on projects, and not be made to feel like an idiot in front of a room full of kids on a daily basis. God didn't take away his ADHD, just put him in a situation where it was more manageable.

[SunnyAndrsn]

ITA with everything you said about the useful tools in combating depression. I don't quarrel with those either.

The big problem with Steve and Teri is that they actively condemn the use of medication by others. Their teachings on depression are both seductively oversimplified for their misguided flock and extremely dangerous.

Exactly!

Re: tools-- My husband explains it this way to his clients and their parents: Why do you throw a hammer into a field and expect to see a house built? You have to use the tools, and you have to give them time to build the house.

[Odd1Out]

Wow, if she puts this kind of guilt on followers who did not buy or follow this book, just imagine the amount of guilt she and Steve pour on their kids if they don't agree completely with everything they say!

[Jana814]

Wow, if she puts this kind of guilt on followers who did not buy or follow this book, just imagine the amount of guilt she and Steve pour on their kids if they don't agree completely with everything they say!

Well said & so true!! Kind of the like the Anderson's if someone doesn't agree w/ them they get pissed.

[ljohnson2006]

She obviously has to be nuts. Look at her husband and kids. Don't preach about what you don't know, Teri. Go write a Moody book. Maybe "Moodys Go On Prozac?"

[church_of_dog]

She obviously has to be nuts. Look at her husband and kids. Don't preach about what you don't know, Teri. Go write a Moody book. Maybe "Moodys Go On Prozac?"

but -- but -- that would be "Moody-altering"! :lol: (sorry)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The thing that gets me is that these people are generally not anti modern medicine. So chemotherapy is okay, blood transfusions are okay, putting a cast on a broken limb is okay, braces are okay, taking pain killers for a headache is okay, but if you're so depressed or anxious that you can't function, you're just not trusting Jesus enough? By their own internal logic their argument makes no sense.

It's the same with the similar attitude in just mainstream US culture too though - meds for other body pathways are fine. Insulin? No problem, although it's chronic. Chronic reflux meds? Okay too. And of course obviously acute stuff (antibiotics, etc) are fine. Body part isn't making enough of some substance it needs? You add it. Not controversial at all, EXCEPT...

It's when it comes to anything to do with the brain or anything to do with pain, suddenly it gets lumped in as "drugs" in a bad sense. Because that's about feelings, maybe, and people don't want to believe in the biological basis for things that affect subjective feeling and personality?

But so much mental illness medicine really is just about a biological pathway. The systems are extremely complicated (hence unfortunately there's so much variation in experience and it can take so long to find the right thing) but absolutely, parts of the ingredients the brain needs to function smoothly can be missing and wonky and so yeah, just like insulin, you need to help it out from the outside.

With pain meds you can find people so utterly terrified of possibly getting "high" that they'll prefer to sit and suffer quite bad pain, because somehow the act of eating something to change your feelings (including lack of pain) is just... taboo, for some reason. It's viewed as dare I say it, CHEATING at the game of life. Somehow.

...I find that idea very harmful. It's pretty deep rooted though with a lot of people.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think one reason fundies don't go in for medication for depression, and other "emotional" issues is that it would take away from their testimonies.

You can't say God and prozac took away my depression, it just wouldn't hold water in fundie circles.

I recall when Teri wrote a Corner on John's behavior as a child, Part of his testimony, she says, is telling people if he had been in public school instead of homeschooled he probably would have been put on ADHD meds.

Instead, his parents prayed and solved his issues that way.

A much better testimony, and God gets the credit, not Concerta.

This is another excellent example. ADHD meds would be "cheating." Instead, to Teri's view, he got to work things through the hard way or whatever and so they view that as better.

Even if he has to work hard even with medication (which is absolutely true) it seems they view that as somehow skipping ahead, or something. It's weird.

And yes, they do seem to view themselves as "better" for having thus "not cheated."

"Moody-altering" - LOL :lol:

[ViolaSebastian]

Here's the thing for me regarding anti-depressants versus faith: Is it so wild to think that maybe God sent scientists, biomedical engineers, and physicians to us so that we could have them? That taking them is part of God's plan to improve your life?

[TrueRebel1]

Growing up fundie, this is what I was taught about mental/emotional health and depression.

Depression= sin. Because being depressed is a result of not being grateful, thankful, and joyful. Thus, there is no reason to seek medical help for depression. You just need to get right with God.

Symptoms related to depression -- lethargy, inability to focus, anti-social behaviour, sleep issues, etc. -- are simply stumbling blocks from the devil to tempt you to not have the right attitudes. So if you chose to be right with God, then God will fix these problems for you.

Growing up in a sheltered family, this logic made sense. Now that I am exposed to real people in the real world, I realize that I was SO led astray! I think the problem with people like Teri is that they are so distanced from other people, that they cannot see the good in different ideas, cultures, people, etc. They have convinced themselves that everyone else and every other belief and idea is bad and sinful. They cannot accept that someone who is depressed could be helped by medication or therapy. They can't understand how a child can attend public school, or watch Disney movies, and yet turn out to be a respectable adult. They make a blanket assumption that everyone who's not like themselves, is doing it wrong.