News Flash! Michael Pearl is an Inconsiderate Jerk

[debrand]

Shoshanna Pearl wrote an article in which she praises her dad for being an rude jerk.

My Dad was not the type of guy to check with you before he made a decision. We would be driving down the road when all of a sudden he would pull in to a restaurant and say, “Let’s eat!†as he was getting out of the car.

One criteria of being a good human being is possessing the ability to consider other's feelings.

.

Everything was at full speed; there never seemed to be any hesitation in his decision-making process, and it never occurred to him to ask your opinion when he had already deduced in his mind that this was the best choice.

Shoshanna reports this as though it is positive but it sounds as if her dad is a selfish narcissist. How can she not see that her dad is a jerk?

Dad, on the other hand, was cool, logical, and unmoved by others.

I do not believe that a lot of fundies understand what the word, logic means. In their minds, women are emotional and men-real men- are the opposite so that means that men are logical even when the men are being far more emotional than their wives. They just don't define male actions-even tantrums-as emotional. Being emotional is bad because it is the excuse they use to ignore a woman's opinion. A man who was emotional would be someone that could be ignored and you can't have that. Also, being unmoved by others is not a good thing.

†He did not ask; he told. He liked things one way and was not open to changing them.

It appears that Shoshanna Pearl is looking for as many ways as possible to tell us her dad is an ass.

Apparently, her husband James wanted her opinion and that confused her. She felt that he wasn't letting her submit. Finally, she realized that the way to submit was to tell her husband her opinion.

So whether her husband had been sweet and considerate or a jerk, it didn't ultimately matter. She doesn't really appreciate that he is viewing her as an actual human being with emotions and thoughts, she just wants to to find a way to submit to someone.

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/becoming-kind-woman/

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that Michael Pearl is a sociopath. There is not a single positive thing anyone can say about him, as it is just all bad. And he thinks that these flaws make him awesome and has brainwashed his family to think the same.

Shoshanna, James has it right by asking your opinion instead of deciding and expecting you to go along with it. It is not normal for someone to never ask anyone their opinion for things and just do them. It is not normal for a grown ass adult to be impulsive. It is not normal for someone to be unmoved by others opinions.....it seems your father doesn't have any empathy or ability to feel for others. It is not normal for someone to be closed minded. And finally, it is not normal to spank your baby and not normal to beat your kids with plumbing line.

[DGayle]

Apparently, her husband James wanted her opinion and that confused her. She felt that he wasn't letting her submit. Finally, she realized that the way to submit was to tell her husband her opinion.

That reminds me of Coming to America, where Eddie Murphy's character met his betrothed, and wasn't happy with her submitting, and tried getting her real opinions. "Whatever you like," she kept saying, and he ordered her to not obey him, and she was in a catch-22. How can you obey an order not to obey? (His character wants to marry a strong woman who can think for herself, so he wasn't happy with a drone.)

[Trynn]

We already have a thread on this hurried somewhere.

[jerkit]

That reminds me of Coming to America, where Eddie Murphy's character met his betrothed, and wasn't happy with her submitting, and tried getting her real opinions. "Whatever you like," she kept saying, and he ordered her to not obey him, and she was in a catch-22. How can you obey an order not to obey? (His character wants to marry a strong woman who can think for herself, so he wasn't happy with a drone.)

In my evangelical days, I remember having this (almost exact) conversation with my husband. It took me a long time before I realized my husband actually wanted my opinion.

[BrownieMomma]

It's sad how she probably truly does not realize what she is really saying about her father.

She does not even know or realize these are poor character qualities. Michael Pearl is a complete and total creep.

[debrand]

It's sad how she probably truly does not realize what she is really saying about her father.

She does not even know or realize these are poor character qualities. Michael Pearl is a complete and total creep.

I think it is sad also. Her father's example and teaching have led her to being a more likely victim of abuse. She just happened to not have married an abusive man.

I hate how the Pearls present Michael's clearly abusive and disrespectful behavior as though it is cute.

[freethemall]

What's really sad to me about all this (and this is after reading the Michael + Debi Pearl honeymoon story this morning, excerpts from the book Debi wrote about being a helpmeet) is that Shoshanna sees her mother's example of obedience as normal, and tried to replicate that, and then saw her husband's asking her opinion as abnormal. That is REALLY fucked up that your kids would see that as a normal marriage and then be confused why a husband would ask his wife her opinion. It speaks so much about her parents' marriage and somehow she doesn't see just how messed up it all is, instead she's seeing herself as obeying her husband in giving him her opinion, still seeing it as a way of being a helpmeet/servant rather than an equal partner. UGH :angry-banghead:

[Black Aliss]

Oh, dear. And he always seemed so nice! :think:

[Antigone]

and how is this a newsflash? we all know Michael Pearl is an ass. :shrug:

LOL, but anyway, that was interesting from Shoshanna's POV.

[Sundaymorning]

Honestly, if you would show me some real fundie quotes and some satire magazine ones, I couldn't tell the difference. These fundies are such nutcases, it's no wonder many people think that ladover baptist church is real.

At least Michael Pearl is honest about how big of a selfish jerk he is, others try to disguise it and talk about how the husband should love and cherish his wife. He is the best example why no woman in her right mind should ever be willing to marry a man who wants her to "submit" to him.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

What's really sad to me about all this (and this is after reading the Michael + Debi Pearl honeymoon story this morning, excerpts from the book Debi wrote about being a helpmeet) is that Shoshanna sees her mother's example of obedience as normal, and tried to replicate that, and then saw her husband's asking her opinion as abnormal. That is REALLY fucked up that your kids would see that as a normal marriage and then be confused why a husband would ask his wife her opinion. It speaks so much about her parents' marriage and somehow she doesn't see just how messed up it all is, instead she's seeing herself as obeying her husband in giving him her opinion, still seeing it as a way of being a helpmeet/servant rather than an equal partner. UGH :angry-banghead:

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title. Then when I started reading it, that just reinforced it. It's pretty sad when someone views a normal and probably much healthier marriage (in which BOTH partners want and value each other's opinions) as abnormal because the precedent set for them by their parents was highly dysfunctional.

[nelliebelle1197]

I actually don't think he is a sociopath. I think this is he to a tee:

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narci ... -symptoms/

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.

People with narcissistic personality disorder often display snobbish, disdainful, or patronizing attitudes. For example, an individual with this disorder may complain about a clumsy waiter’s “rudeness†or “stupidity†or conclude a medical evaluation with a condescending evaluation of the physician.

In laypeople terms, someone with this disorder may be described simply as a “narcissist†or as someone with “narcissism.†Both of these terms generally refer to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

A personality disorder is an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates from the norm of the individual’s culture. The pattern is seen in two or more of the following areas: cognition; affect; interpersonal functioning; or impulse control. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations. It typically leads to significant distress or impairment in social, work or other areas of functioning. The pattern is stable and of long duration, and its onset can be traced back to early adulthood or adolescence.

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is “special†and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Requires excessive admiration

Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

I actually don't think he is a sociopath. I think this is he to a tee:

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narci ... -symptoms/

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.

People with narcissistic personality disorder often display snobbish, disdainful, or patronizing attitudes. For example, an individual with this disorder may complain about a clumsy waiter’s “rudeness†or “stupidity†or conclude a medical evaluation with a condescending evaluation of the physician.

In laypeople terms, someone with this disorder may be described simply as a “narcissist†or as someone with “narcissism.†Both of these terms generally refer to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

A personality disorder is an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates from the norm of the individual’s culture. The pattern is seen in two or more of the following areas: cognition; affect; interpersonal functioning; or impulse control. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations. It typically leads to significant distress or impairment in social, work or other areas of functioning. The pattern is stable and of long duration, and its onset can be traced back to early adulthood or adolescence.

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is “special†and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Requires excessive admiration

Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Yes, I agree. A guy that my ex-sister-in-law dated for a short time had NPD and he was a LOT like Michael Pearl in the way he treated her. (Fortunately, she walked away before things got too serious. It surely would have been a nightmare if she hadn't.)

[thoughtful]

Love the thread title -- film at eleven! :D

I am very much like my dad in personality, and I was used to submitting under a strong personality like my own. I was ready to obey my husband, and I tried to tell him. I did not understand why he wouldn’t just boss me. I was frustrated that he did not “lead me.†Every time he asked my opinion, I would work to help him figure out what his opinion was. I didn’t want to give him my opinion because I wanted to help him realize he was the leader of this home. Both of us felt frustrated. I felt like I was trying so hard to submit, but he would not let me. That is when I really thought about what I was actually doing; it was the opposite of what God designed me to be—my husband’s Help Meet. What did James need? What did James want? What did James appreciate? What was James’ will? Well, he kept asking for my opinion. He seemed pleased when I worked with him. He liked me looking tailored and well put-together. Those were easy to comply with when I was paying attention, but what else? How could I help him? How could I make his life better? What exactly did he need? I knew he had a hard time seeing what was in front of him. He struggled with simple decisions because his brain was so busy with complicated ones.

So I began to help him see what did not come natural to him. Instead of trying to make him lead, I stopped my control issues and helped him. If he asked where I wanted to eat, I told him. If he asked my opinion, I gave it. In fact, I started telling him where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do, what my opinion was on this or that. He loved it! We became best friends. He needed me to be strong. He needed me to help him balance life. I found that it was a blast living as his Help Meet.

So fucking complicated and twisted around, I hardly know where to start.

I'd say that all of the people who claim their child-training crap works because "their kids turned out so well" need to read this, but they probably wouldn't get it.

[Rebelwife]

I think this another example of the way the "courtship" culture fucks up men as well as women. Just as there is the expectation that girls will go from shy, modest virgins to Godly sex kittens with the stroke of a pen on a marriage license, there is the same expectation than boys will go from obedient sons to manly, alpha providers.

She'd been told all her life that her husband would be like that and even if he didn't show those "manly" traits during courtship, well that's just because he was still under his father's authority. It's like magic!

[hoipolloi]

I'd say that all of the people who claim their child-training crap works because "their kids turned out so well" need to read this, but they probably wouldn't get it.

Re: bolded: That would include Michael & Debi Pearl.

[kpmom]

Shoshanna writes;

"So I began to help him see what did not come natural to him. Instead of trying to make him lead, I stopped my control issues and helped him. If he asked where I wanted to eat, I told him. If he asked my opinion, I gave it. In fact, I started telling him where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do, what my opinion was on this or that. He loved it! We became best friends. He needed me to be strong. He needed me to help him balance life. I found that it was a blast living as his Help Meet."

The funny thing is, she's not describing a Headship/Helpmeet relationship. She's describing a relationship among equals.

That's right, Michael and Debi, your daughter has an egalitarian marriage!! She's not even waiting for James to ask her opinion anymore. She just up and gives it to him! Like she's a real person or something!

[Burris]

I own a copy of Debi Pearl's book, 'Created to Be His Automaton.' I found it at a thrift shop and couldn't resist. I've read other books by fundie women - The Excellent Wife, The Total Woman, Creative Counterpart and some others. (I have this fascination with how those authors think.)

Debi Pearl's book was, by far, the most disturbing: It's basically a how-to for surviving long years with an exceptionally abusive man.

[Jasmar]

I realize that this is trivial compared to the actual beliefs of these loonies, but I'm too flummoxed by Shodhanna's labyrinthine thought patterns to comment on the issue, so allow me to get this off my chest:

"Meet," as used in the King James Bible, is an ADJECTIVE. It means something akin to "appropriate," or "fitting," as in "His wife handed him a steak knife to provide help meet to the task of cutting his meat."

Well, that's ridiculously clunky, but it's late and I'm tired. And crabby. I hate how fundies ignorantly use that term.

[salsa]

really really sad when you're brought up with the idea that "submission" means never even getting to choose what you want to eat. :cry:

[Bretta]

Shoshanna Pearl wrote an article in which she praises her dad for being an rude jerk.

One criteria of being a good human being is possessing the ability to consider other's feelings.

.

Shoshanna reports this as though it is positive but it sounds as if her dad is a selfish narcissist. How can she not see that her dad is a jerk?

I do not believe that a lot of fundies understand what the word, logic means. In their minds, women are emotional and men-real men- are the opposite so that means that men are logical even when the men are being far more emotional than their wives. They just don't define male actions-even tantrums-as emotional. Being emotional is bad because it is the excuse they use to ignore a woman's opinion. A man who was emotional would be someone that could be ignored and you can't have that. Also, being unmoved by others is not a good thing.

It appears that Shoshanna Pearl is looking for as many ways as possible to tell us her dad is an ass.

Apparently, her husband James wanted her opinion and that confused her. She felt that he wasn't letting her submit. Finally, she realized that the way to submit was to tell her husband her opinion.

So whether her husband had been sweet and considerate or a jerk, it didn't ultimately matter. She doesn't really appreciate that he is viewing her as an actual human being with emotions and thoughts, she just wants to to find a way to submit to someone.

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/becoming-kind-woman/

It would seem their theology is too subjective: based on one person's interpretation and his personality. It would appear from this article that they are using religion to justify being arrogant... instead of focusing on *other* principles like humility and "loving your neighbour as yourself". If you claim to follow solo Scriptura, then the least you could do not not throw those precepts out of the window because they can really make you a lot more human and relatable and less *crazy-backwoods-conservative* with no basic decency.

Mr. Pearl doesn't believe in self-renunciation. I have heard one of his messages on it, and it intrigued that he doesn't believe in the theology of suffering or "dying to self". Instead, self-deprecation is completely sublimated under and transferred to transferred to the theology of "submission", as if humility, sacrifice, "considering others before yourself", were only for those 'under headship'.

[Free Jana Duggar]

I could not believe the story of their honeymoon.  It's bad enough she had to cook on her honeymoon (while he takes a nap, of course), To treat her that way is appalling.  He had no empathy for her hurt feet or how tired she was.  What jerk wakes his wife up in the middle of the night to go hunt for crabs????  He doesn't even sound like he feels he did anything wrong when he writes about it. 

Glad my honeymoon was a whole lot better.  After our wedding, we stopped for a nice steak dinner on the way to the hotel. Then we had a nice room with a hot tub.  The next morning we flew to Disney.  It was a great trip.