Pennington Point daughter escapes/ Has no ID's Part 2

[Mama Mia]

Part 1 here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23563

Too bad we didn't follow Lisa back when she had babies and young children. I bet she was scheduled to the max with all day training. Listen to what someone posted on fb:

Horrible person. I wonder how far back her online presence goes? It sounds like Alecia doesn't need it now, but I'm really curious if someone could use old blog posts going back to childhood to help establish identity? I wonder if anyone has tried something like that?

[browncoatslytherin]

Horrible person. I wonder how far back her online presence goes? It sounds like Alecia doesn't need it now, but I'm really curious if someone could use old blog posts going back to childhood to help establish identity? I wonder if anyone has tried something like that?

that is an interesting proposition, mamma mia. in this day and age of emerging technology, it would be interesting to see what could be considered admissible for this kind of thing and under what circumstances and if so what qualifications it would have to meet.

[quiversR4hunting]

I'm sure they are already aware of each other and Cynthia has tweeted about Alecia's story. The similarities in their situations are huge.

and she just posted a blog about Alecia Faith too: cynthiajeub.com/2015/02/alecia-pennington-identity-abuse-and-me/

[Palimpsest]

As I said, HA has summarized the problem very well. It's a serious abuse and control point, and it's one that has long been advocated by Michael Pearl as a way to protect your children from the government.

Agreed. Michael Pearl has been advocating this for ages. As did his SIL Gabe Anast on his now defunct forum, 7X Sunday. The debates on 7X Sunday were quite scary as people discussed which states were best for members wanting to go right off the grid. 7X Sunday may be defunct, or more likely went underground, but you can still see nests of these rabid off-the-gridders if you wander down the rabbit hole of homesteading and Christian parenting forums.

Someone above asked how many people are likely to face this sort of Identity Abuse:

Per the HARO (HAs parent organization) 2014 Survey of Adult Alumni of the Modern Christian Homeschool Movement 3.65% experienced some form of identification abuse. Mind you, they had a small sample and probably everyone who responded had already escaped from their family control. It is probably the tip of the iceberg.

Then there is the Sovereign Citizen Movement -- I'm sure some Fundies are Sovereign Citizen types too. It's hard to know how many there are altogether but they are really frightening. See the Southern Poverty Law Center's take on that movement.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... s-movement

[Palimpsest]

and she just posted a blog about Alecia Faith too: cynthiajeub.com/2015/02/alecia-pennington-identity-abuse-and-me/

Damn you are fast. The link posted here within seconds of the post going up. Thanks!

[louisa05]

Then there is the Sovereign Citizen Movement -- I'm sure some Fundies are Sovereign Citizen types too. It's hard to know how many there are altogether but they are really frightening. See the Southern Poverty Law Center's take on that movement.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... s-movement

That is some serious crazy. :pink-shock:

[quiversR4hunting]

Damn you are fast. The link posted here within seconds of the post going up. Thanks!

I get email reminders when Cynthia posts a blog :)

Another media outlet has picked up the piece. It's on the "Free Beer and Hotwings" website. Free Beer and Hotwings are DJs that have a syndicated national morning show. As far as I know free beer and hot wings plays on alternative or hard rock or heavy metal music stations far from what fundies or many conservative Christians would think is ok to listen too. Here is the link: http://www.freebeerandhotwings.com/blog ... 2035891006

I think I will check back for any comments on their blog because those could be very entertaining. :)

[Mama Mia]

Agreed. Michael Pearl has been advocating this for ages. As did his SIL Gabe Anast on his now defunct forum, 7X Sunday. The debates on 7X Sunday were quite scary as people discussed which states were best for members wanting to go right off the grid. 7X Sunday may be defunct, or more likely went underground, but you can still see nests of these rabid off-the-gridders if you wander down the rabbit hole of homesteading and Christian parenting forums.

Someone above asked how many people are likely to face this sort of Identity Abuse:

Per the HARO (HAs parent organization) 2014 Survey of Adult Alumni of the Modern Christian Homeschool Movement 3.65% experienced some form of identification abuse. Mind you, they had a small sample and probably everyone who responded had already escaped from their family control. It is probably the tip of the iceberg.

Then there is the Sovereign Citizen Movement -- I'm sure some Fundies are Sovereign Citizen types too. It's hard to know how many there are altogether but they are really frightening. See the Southern Poverty Law Center's take on that movement.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... s-movement

Yeah, and this is one of those intersections where extreme right/ extreme left / extreme libertarian all meet at the same point. As well as random people who have their own non-political paranoid reasons.

And since many of the people who are against birth certificates and social security cards are also anti-vax, anti formal church ( which will keep things like baptismal and christening records) -- , use natural remedies as much as possible -----they aren't going to have much to fall back on when their adult child wants to get those documents. On the far left and libertarian side I don't think the philosophical reasonings are due to wanting to control their adult kids -- but it sure will create a burden for them!

It seems, to me, like it's going to become an increasing issue for young adults over the next few years. Pre 9-11 there were far less restrictions and requirements regarding having the right documents, or in getting ones if they had never been issued in the first place.But every year it seems the regulations increase. And now with the Internet, there seem to be even more people who are extremely paranoid of the government and government forms.....so I wonder if the number of babies born without documents will increase? Or will having so many regulations and laws mean even the extremely anti-government will register because it's so inconvenient to do virtually anything without proof of identity now?

For example - until 1986, you didn't use a dependents social security number when filing taxes, so many people simply got their social security card when they started working. It was a right of passage, like getting your drivers license. Since then the number of things that require picture I.D and social security cards has greatly increased, especially with the whole war on terrorism AND anti-immigrant feeling at the same time. Now since it's required for virtually everything, I would think parents who had children who are under the age of 10 or so would have a very hard time navigating without it.

Does anyone know if the fundamentalists are still promoting the anti-registration stance as much as they did 10 + years ago?

An anecdotal story about how fear of the government can really screw people up:

I have a good friend who was born in the late 60's, during the Vietnam war. Her parents were from Mexico, with Permanent Residency, but not citizenship. They had heard rumors that if their child was a boy he would be forced to fight in the war at a young age. So the mom went to Mexico to deliver the baby and then returned. Which made the baby undocumented, instead of a U.S. Citizen. My friend says this was not uncommon during that time. She was only able to get legal status when Regan did a big legalization in the 80's.

[Feministe9000]

Just a little side note--

I've been keeping up with Jacob Pennington's responses on his mother's Facebook page to all the haters/leghumpers commenting on the video Lisa posted, and I have to say he sure does sound like a smarmy, pompous douche! Just like his father...but not as controlled and calculating, more immature, self-righteous and so FULL of himself and his ego "for God".

So I looked at his Facebook profile picture, and wish that I hadn't.

His face says IT ALL.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-x ... e=558FCA08

Even looking at him makes me squirm, can you imagine this guy trying to court and talk to a gal? YIKES.

[Delilah]

Michael Pearl has been advocating this for ages.

Will this evil man's legacy never end? It's scary how one person can have such an enormous impact. He's not exceptionally intelligent, educated, rich, or handsome, but somehow he gets people to follow him.

(I know no one probably cares, but this is my first success in snipping a quote to save space. "Computer Idiot" should have been my user name.)

[Feministe9000]

So Jacob and Grace are both on the Pennington Point facebook page and now Faith's page too.

Grace is commenting a whole lot about how Faith has destroyed her parents' reputation, they have done nothing wrong, how Grace can do just whatever the heck she likes always, because her parents are not controlling at all, that her mother never took down any blog posts, etc etc etc.

Thank god people have commented back and asked: do you think your parents are not intelligent enough to handle this situation?

Is that why they have you and your brother and sister answering questions for them?

CHRIS JEUB CHRIS JEUB CHRIS JEUB.

So much gaslighting.

If I was Faith, once I get those docs, I will get a job, learn to drive, start saving and get the HELL OUTTA DODGE :cracking-up: :cracking-up: :cracking-up:

[Gobsmacked]

A handsome young man who sadly has his mothers mad untrustworthy eyes

He will attract females but heaven help the one daft enough to fall for him.

Mr Pennington senior is a sleazy character. I don't want to upset any close family by saying that but sadly it is true.

After watching the video of him i felt the hairs on the back of my neck stand up .

Good wishes Alicia. Keep fighting , don't let anyone get you down.

Your grandparents sound fantastic people.

[freshchurnedbutter]

I am fascinated by the Sovereign Citizen movement. I was talking to my mom this morning, and she remembers a family from Louisiana that started attending our Mennonite church, probably early to mid 90's---the kids had no BC, etc....even the conservative Mennonites thought they were crazy and tried to help them. I don't know what happened to them, but I hope the girls got out and were able to carry on normal lives.

Back in 2005ish, my conservative husband got to know a whole bunch of the people behind the Christian Exodus movement in SC. He was invited and went to some of their meetings to see what they were about, and I got really alarmed when I saw the literature that was being given out. There were ties to League of the South, Cory Burnell, the Reconstructionist movement, lots of crazy, fringy stuff--I cannot even remember all the names. I begged him not to go this direction--it felt really unsafe, wacked out to me.

All this was before the Tea Party was established. I did a ton of research and like someone mentioned, you follow the internet trail and you start connecting the murky dots with the these movements, preppers/Christian preppers, homeschoolers going off the grid, the home churchers, the fake Jews, Gabe Anast, Kent Hovind, Micheal Pearl, Doug Phillips, the Kendalls....all really crazy and lots of drama. So many little factions, and they could never and will never get consensus. Its like they just fell down a rabbit hole and kept going. Sounds like the Pennington Point people are/were caught up in this as well.

I guess I am just not surprised at anything anymore. People will believe anything that a religious leader tells them. Just do research on the Pentacostal movement and Indie Fundie movement. So much false teachings--I am not surprised that these people are losing their kids to atheism and kids are running away to get out. Its why there is FreeJinger, Spiritual Sounding Board, HA and others.

[freejingerbeth]

Just a little side note--

I've been keeping up with Jacob Pennington's responses on his mother's Facebook page to all the haters/leghumpers commenting on the video Lisa posted, and I have to say he sure does sound like a smarmy, pompous douche! Just like his father...but not as controlled and calculating, more immature, self-righteous and so FULL of himself and his ego "for God".

So I looked at his Facebook profile picture, and wish that I hadn't.

His face says IT ALL.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-x ... e=558FCA08

Even looking at him makes me squirm, can you imagine this guy trying to court and talk to a gal? YIKES.

Uhg! Something about him looks really creepy. I can't lay my finger on it, but sort of looks like a character out of a movie, who is handsome, but turns out to be a serial killer, or something.

[Grimalkin]

Oh boy, As Alecia asks people to respect her parents and the action dies down, and people express happiness for her and well wishes the sister comes in and stirs it all up. Even when asked if she wans reconciliation she answers "Of course! I love and pray for her!" and continues swinging. People gently pointed out how her comments disregard her sisters feelings and fears and she tells them that her sister has nothing to fear, and more swinging. I think the parents love this to be honest. Very odd how personal friends suddenly chime in when it starts to die down.

No worries for Lisa folks, she is going to be just fine.

[Palimpsest]

Does anyone know if the fundamentalists are still promoting the anti-registration stance as much as they did 10 + years ago?

Gut feeling only, I think the anti-registration craze amongst Christian Fundamentalists is probably growing at about the same rate as Covenant Marriage. Never watch a Fundie wedding identified as "Covenant" without pondering whether they have a legal marriage license or not. So, not fast but creeping upwards especially in the isolationist factions. As more of the younger generation leave the fold escape and get hit with reality - and stories like Alecia's are publicized - I hope it will go down again.

Per the SPLC the numbers of Sovereign Citizens have been increasing steadily since 9/11. Increasing distrust of the government plus paranoid delusions being reinforced by extreme right-wing politicians. Fox news would have been a joke pre-2001, IMO. Now it is thought a legitimate news source.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Not just religious fundies, but I first heard of sovereign citizenship when I was reading about white supremacists. According to their message boards, they promote homebirthing and homeschooling and no documents as well.

[louisa05]

Gut feeling only, I think the anti-registration craze amongst Christian Fundamentalists is probably growing at about the same rate as Covenant Marriage. Never watch a Fundie wedding identified as "Covenant" without pondering whether they have a legal marriage license or not. So, not fast but creeping upwards especially in the isolationist factions. As more of the younger generation leave the fold escape and get hit with reality - and stories like Alecia's are publicized - I hope it will go down again.

Per the SPLC the numbers of Sovereign Citizens have been increasing steadily since 9/11. Increasing distrust of the government plus paranoid delusions being reinforced by extreme right-wing politicians. Fox news would have been a joke pre-2001, IMO. Now it is thought a legitimate news source.

I assume the no marriage license thing will eventually come back to bite some poor ignorant couple forced into it as well.

[Mama Mia]

Gut feeling only, I think the anti-registration craze amongst Christian Fundamentalists is probably growing at about the same rate as Covenant Marriage. Never watch a Fundie wedding identified as "Covenant" without pondering whether they have a legal marriage license or not. So, not fast but creeping upwards especially in the isolationist factions. As more of the younger generation leave the fold escape and get hit with reality - and stories like Alecia's are publicized - I hope it will go down again.

Per the SPLC the numbers of Sovereign Citizens have been increasing steadily since 9/11. Increasing distrust of the government plus paranoid delusions being reinforced by extreme right-wing politicians. Fox news would have been a joke pre-2001, IMO. Now it is thought a legitimate news source.

Yeah, you can definitely see the growing paranoia, conspiracy, anti-government extremism. Not all on the far right either, by any means.

And what's difficult, is that with the Internet and greater access to information a much larger group of people can easily find out really legitimately awful things the government has done, and continues to do ---think J. Edgar Hoover and his infamous enemies list. Or the hugely disproportionate " war on drugs" that has decimated communities.

But thinking the answer is to go completely off-grid is, as the old saying goes -- cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Tesseract]

Howatzer604, you devil, you :lol: :twisted: :lol:

[Palimpsest]

Not just religious fundies, but I first heard of sovereign citizenship when I was reading about white supremacists. According to their message boards, they promote homebirthing and homeschooling and no documents as well.

Quite correct about the white supremacists and Sovereign Citizens. And some of our Fundies are also extremely racist although they try to hide it on-line. Slavery is Biblically approved, don't you know.

[browncoatslytherin]

Quite correct about the white supremacists and Sovereign Citizens. And some of our Fundies are also extremely racist although they try to hide it on-line. Slavery is Biblically approved, don't you know.

i'm guessing they would find my eventual pagan handfasting ceremony for an interracial marriage quite pearl-clutching

[mirele]

If people are interested in Sovereign Citizens, the Fogbow forum keeps an eye on the crazy. And I do mean nutso.

http://thefogbow.com/forum/forum/72-sov ... nd-juries/ (lunk bot briken because the Fogbow snarks on sovcits like FJ snarks on Fundies.)

[browncoatslytherin]

If people are interested in Sovereign Citizens, the Fogbow forum keeps an eye on the crazy. And I do mean nutso.

http://thefogbow.com/forum/forum/72-sov ... nd-juries/ (lunk bot briken because the Fogbow snarks on sovcits like FJ snarks on Fundies.)

they have a thread on kent hovind right on the first page :lol:

[ILoveJellybeans]

Agreed. Michael Pearl has been advocating this for ages. As did his SIL Gabe Anast on his now defunct forum, 7X Sunday. The debates on 7X Sunday were quite scary as people discussed which states were best for members wanting to go right off the grid. 7X Sunday may be defunct, or more likely went underground, but you can still see nests of these rabid off-the-gridders if you wander down the rabbit hole of homesteading and Christian parenting forums.

And I think we all know why Michael Pearl wants people to not register their kids births.

Kids can fall through the cracks far easily if nobody knows they even exist. CPS cant take kids they don't know you have, and if your kid is never given an identity, and kept in the middle of nowhere, if their parents follow the Pearls advice too well, nobody is going to notice the kid is missing. I wonder how many kids like Faith there are, home birthed, home schooled, never seeing a doctor or anything, who are being horribly abused in the name of God and nobody notices.