Anna Duggar - Merge

[Special friend]

You are not alone. She isn't allowed to be an intelligent capable woman . I do believe Josh would encourage her to be, however, and probably tries, but she has been taught her entire life that she can't be. So any time she starts feeling intelligent or confident or capable she has to stomp it back down. I think Mack is a smart little girl who will be valued for who she truly is much more than her mother (or her father) ever were.

I do agree with this. In an earlier episode, when the older Duggar girls were gone and it was just Michelle and the little kids at home, Michelle had a lot of help there. Priscilla was there, as well.

She seemed very capable, able to cope with this many kids, and even her speech seemed more normal, IMO. So I do not think that she is intellectually more behind than, say, Anna.

It seems that in Godhardism, this is an ideal of femininity. In the booklets (The seven basic needs of a husband, or something like that), it is even taught how to talk sweetly and that you shouldn´t be too self-sufficient.

My read on the situation is that Priscilla is trying *very, very* had to do a good job fulfilling this ideal, maybe because she hopes that it will improve the relationship. :( :(

(Hi, this is my first post here! Been lurking for a loooong time. :hand: )

[lascuba]

Poor Pris. She tries SO HARD. And she's been told all her life that women aren't as capable as men. Then she married a guy who gives off all kinds of interesting vibes. And who seems easily frustrated by her in several different ways. Even if she isn't clever she was already at a disadvantage by her training. If David would just get over himself and figure out what makes her feel like she did something right, I think she'd gain confidence and be less affected.

I hate that I want to defend David a bit here, but I always put myself in his shoes on this point. Imagine being married to Priscilla? David's no brain trust but damn, having to coddle and essentially parent someone who's supposed to be my partner would kill my soul. If I were of the belief that divorce is not an option, if I knew utterly that I was stuck with such a simpleton--no matter how sweet and shaped by circumstances outside her control--I'd be hard pressed to hide my frustration. I hope I wouldn't be cruel, but I'd be miserably unhappy.

[Kelbel]

[snip]

Starting to become a breeder since age 20 eats up her life.

If she gets a nervous breakdown, I say whatever. It totally is bound to happen.

It's inevitable, esp with the absence of that handy family support.

What I can't understand is why she keeps referencing/complaining how long of a stretch she's had between two of her pregnancies. It sort of alarmed me. One might think she wants to be pregnant constantly.

:cray-cray:

[bunnybunz]

Have you guys seen their website? It's really creepy

http://davidlovespriscilla.com/

[sbroh]

If you don't hear the speech problems with Pris and Mac, then you don't hear them. I'm not going to argue the point.

Anna SHOULD go to a hospital for an epidural and medically assisted delivery, that was my point. She's not a trooper at all, from what I've just seen in flashbacks of her 3 births. TLC aired a 3 hour ( I believe it was) marathon showing some of Michelle's births and Anna's three births as a prelude to the Jill birth episode, which was also very long.

Michelle was the epitome of how to effectively labor, push when it's time to push, and conserve energy and oxygen between contractions. Anna has no instinct for birthing at all, and I'm afraid one of her babies will die if she is left alone in late labor for some reason and a baby is born unassisted.

Anna was in labor for 2 hours with the baby she delivered at the Birthing Center ( I believe this was Marcus).

She had to be driven from home to the birthing center, and this is where TLC captured her on video in early labor. She was moaning and crying and pitching herself around in the SUV on the Interstate highway on the way to the Birthing Center. She was praying and carrying on-and had only been in labor for 2 hours. EARLY LABOR, in other words.

I had seen comments about Michelle looking pissed off in the front seat next to Josh, and wondered if this was true or fan fic. There is some truth to it, however, Michelle was extremely restrained, IMO. If anyone knows that screaming and tossing one's entire body around in a moving vehicle ( or any other place) isn't helpful to an effective labor, Michelle Duggar does.

Anna does not have any birthing instincts!! She cannot handle early labor, she was in panic mode most of the time for her second and third deliveries. Mac may have been her only birth that was mostly calm- not much of it was shown on the special, and I suppose that it didn't contain such dramatic reactions to labor and delivery as the other two babies. IDK.

IMO, she is not, and I mean definitely not, the type of woman who can give birth naturally without extreme emotional trauma. I feel for her in her inability to birth with natural instincts and going with the rhythm of early labor, especially, but she has been shown on national TV in a moaning, crying, shaking heap 2 hours after her labor started. Also, with that same labor, when the SUV taking her to the birthing center arrives and she is helped out and checked, she was only 3 cm. dilated. IOW, she was also clinically in early labor.

The toilet birth also is an example of how she knows and understands so little about birthing at home. The 3 months of Bradley classes should have taught her about perineal and perianal pressure from late transition and crowning to delivery of the infant. But, NOOO, she had probably the filthiest and most uncomfortable birth ever shown on TV- in her bathroom, while being held up by two women over the toilet seat because there was no other option at that point.

Also, I agree with the poster who was commenting on her lack of " getting it" when she asked if her baby would drown if he was born in the birthing pool. This is something she should have known about before the birthing pool or tub or any other water device was even thought about! A baby is usually safe in a water birth as long as the head is lifted up and out of the water before or when he takes first breath. A water birth does have some risk of aspiration pneumonia with it because some midwives can't get some babies' bodies out of the tub or pool fast enough (usually due to poor maternal positioning) and the mother doesn't pull the newly- born baby up herself with her own arms and hands. Anna didn't watch the videos or didn't understand them, or " forgot" while she was in the pool in labor. She's dumb as a box of rocks, IMO.

Maybe you're an Anna fan, but I think she's absolutely clueless and dumb concerning most things in which women in her situation should be well- informed.

If one of her kids gets hurt, she'd run around frantic and let the poor child bleed to death, Has no instincts, no common sense.

I agree with someone else who said she's a copycat. Anna is not a leader of anything, she's a dumb sheep.

This is my opinion, after seeing hours of evidence of her lack of knowledge and general " DUH" attitude to life. It may not be correct or true, but it's how I see her.

Wow. Do you have kids? A person laboring and birthing is an entirely personal thing. Some people are more calm, some are more energetic. Each person is doing what they need to do to get through labor, which is likely the hardest and most painful thing mothers do in their lives.

I was super calm in labor. My doula commented on me being the calmest person in labor she's had ,(I had a hospital birth with a doula for support but an ob and nurses too obviously).

But there is no way in hell I'm looking down on or judging or shaming a woman for how she responds to labor. Not my body, not my experience, not my place to determine an opinion about a woman based on her reaction to labor.

[Coco]

I hate that I want to defend David a bit here, but I always put myself in his shoes on this point. Imagine being married to Priscilla? David's no brain trust but damn, having to coddle and essentially parent someone who's supposed to be my partner would kill my soul. If I were of the belief that divorce is not an option, if I knew utterly that I was stuck with such a simpleton--no matter how sweet and shaped by circumstances outside her control--I'd be hard pressed to hide my frustration. I hope I wouldn't be cruel, but I'd be miserably unhappy.

oh yeah. You should see his normal interactions when he's totally happy. I need to see if i can find the video.

staddonfamily.com/2010/01/16/memorize-the-word/

He would be a fun person if he could just be himself. Unfortunately he's kind of chosen to be stuck where he's at, but if he encouraged Pris she could be fun. I mean, come on they rode that motorcycle together. :lol:

youtube.com/watch?v=wVJtNAR5Qmg

[sbroh]

Having an unassisted childbirth: judgeworthy

Screaming and being crazy during contractions: who the hell cares. Do what you need to do to handle the pain

[Coco]

I sure hope so for Mack's sake at least. Because being smart and trying to cope by holding back and dumbing down could certainly lead to a meltdown eventually. Ignorance is bliss but that won't last long if your brain keeps trying to assert itself.

No kidding. Mack's always been fundie but if her parents are letting her watch Sesame Street and Super Why and things like that, and then later decide to go stricter, she's going to have a really hard time figuring out why suddenly it's wrong to be curious about the world beyond just women's roles.

Fundies waste so much potential in their kids by saying that the girls and women can only please God in a very limited realm. Then, they have the frustrated ones like the Botkins trying to cope with their intelligence by make a college course out of housekeeping and baking. :doh:

[servants-heart]

I actually feel pretty sorry for Anna :? It's been said a million times above, but she's been raised to think that having babies is her number one purpose in life. Compiled with the fact that her parents seems like a particularly intense breed of whacky...

I will never forget Josh and Anna's wedding episode when they interviewed her dad: "the way God ordained it... Josh becomes her authority at the wedding, not me...that's the way God designed the transfer of authority and it's a good design". He's talking about his daughter, not some form of property! I'm sure a lot goes on behind closed doors with the Duggars, but Anna's dad seems in a whole other league to Jim Boob!

Idk, the general vibe from Anna's parents is so creepy. Her dad's some extreme fundie and her mother hardly utters a word. So I genuinely feel sorry for her. I really don't think she was equipped for life at all, and I think she does the best she can with the little that she knows.

[mpheels]

I think it's pretty unfair to compare Anna's labors to what we've seen of Michelle's labors. By the time we ever got to see Michelle, she was on her 13th pregnancy with her 15th child. She only had one prior c-section at that point with Jana and JD, so she had delivered 12 babies vaginally. Of course she was calmer and better at self-managing pain than Anna was for babies 1-3.

We also only see about 5-10 minutes of labors as edited by TLC. It's possible, even likely, that we only see the dramatic/loud parts of Anna's labor because that plays into the "character" of Anna Duggar on 19 Kids and Counting.

[N The Prayer Closet]

Im not going to snark on Anna's births, I've had 3. The only person in the room other than medical staff during my labor and deliveries was my husband. Millions of people have seen Anna's births. When you stay a few nights on a maternity ward you hear all kinds of situations--screaming, yelling, crying, etc. It's so incredibly personal and life changing.

I've noticed that most of these fundie wives have personality changes after marriage. Anna seemed a little more fun and sure of herself when she and Josh were first married. She really seemed to enjoy her time with Amy, Grandma, and Joy. She is very robotic and fake now. Michelle in the early specials had a normal voice and seemed strong and confident. Now I absolutely think there is something wrong with her. Jill will stay smug and bossy because Derick wasn't raised the same way these other fundies were. I'd like to see Jill stop ordering people around, interrupting everyone, and stop bragging so much. I see the glazed over eyes when looking at Derick. It's just so strange! I already see Jessa taking a step back from Ben and its kind of sad to watch because we all know he's such a dimwit.

[Seven]

Wow. Do you have kids? A person laboring and birthing is an entirely personal thing. Some people are more calm, some are more energetic. Each person is doing what they need to do to get through labor, which is likely the hardest and most painful thing mothers do in their lives.

I was super calm in labor. My doula commented on me being the calmest person in labor she's had ,(I had a hospital birth with a doula for support but an ob and nurses too obviously).

But there is no way in hell I'm looking down on or judging or shaming a woman for how she responds to labor. Not my body, not my experience, not my place to determine an opinion about a woman based on her reaction to labor.

L&D is extremely personal, but these people allow us to watch so we get to comment. I think the point is that the Duggars just kind of lead Anna around while her body is in labor and her mind doesn't seem to be on the same page. I hate to give JillDillard any props, but she had a ridiculously detailed birth plan. Anna's birth plan is whatever Josh says it's time for.

[apandaaries]

I actually feel pretty sorry for Anna :? It's been said a million times above, but she's been raised to think that having babies is her number one purpose in life. Compiled with the fact that her parents seems like a particularly intense breed of whacky...

I will never forget Josh and Anna's wedding episode when they interviewed her dad: "the way God ordained it... Josh becomes her authority at the wedding, not me...that's the way God designed the transfer of authority and it's a good design". He's talking about his daughter, not some form of property! I'm sure a lot goes on behind closed doors with the Duggars, but Anna's dad seems in a whole other league to Jim Boob!

Idk, the general vibe from Anna's parents is so creepy. Her dad's some extreme fundie and her mother hardly utters a word. So I genuinely feel sorry for her. I really don't think she was equipped for life at all, and I think she does the best she can with the little that she knows.

I've been thinking about the Keller ladies and their odd behavior. Priscilla and Anna are both married to men who seem to barely tolerate them. Watching Josh when Anna talks is infuriating. He looks bored, critical, or like he's trying not to roll his eyes when she speaks.

Priscilla and Dave....well. There are MANY problems in that relationship, but again, Dave doesn't show Priscilla any respect when she speaks.

Then we have the creepy Keller parents. That dad is something else ("they don't mean wine in the Bible -- it's grape juice!" or, "I'm transferring authority over my daughter to another man, just like God's plan!"). Just imagine how many prisoners are forced to listen to his crap as part of his "ministry." And the wife looks like she's not cared about her appearance in decades. I get the distinct impression that she's been overlooked throughout her marriage, too.

Anna is definitely the least important Duggar, but she's still part of the brand. As long as she's willing to stick by Joshie (probably life, given the effectiveness of her brainwashing), though, she'll still be protected by the Duggar brand. A meltdown would be bad for business; they'll send in a J'slave before that happens.

[Andora]

Do you all ever think that maybe it's the editing and scripted things on the show that make them seem stupid? I feel like if I had to stage things or do activities I wouldn't normally do, or be on those talking heads then I would sound ridiculous too.

I am pretty sure that TLC edits everything so that they can make the people into characters for the Duggar brand.

That being said I can't really feel sorry for them, at least not for the headship(s) because they signed up to subject themselves to it!

[SassyPants]

Do you all ever think that maybe it's the editing and scripted things on the show that make them seem stupid? I feel like if I had to stage things or do activities I wouldn't normally do, or be on those talking heads then I would sound ridiculous too.

I am pretty sure that TLC edits everything so that they can make the people into characters for the Duggar brand.

That being said I can't really feel sorry for them, at least not for the headship(s) because they signed up to subject themselves to it!

The above only makes me feel less sorry for them. If you allow someone or something to make you look intentionally stupid, all for easy money, it's a reflection on YOU...and not a positive one. It appears all of the adult Duggars are willing to look stupid in exchange for easy money. They really must not have high opinions of themselves or confidence in their abilities to independently care and provide for themselves and their million offspring.

It's sad to have so few options and skills.

[MalteseBaby]

Do you all ever think that maybe it's the editing and scripted things on the show that make them seem stupid? I feel like if I had to stage things or do activities I wouldn't normally do, or be on those talking heads then I would sound ridiculous too.

I am pretty sure that TLC edits everything so that they can make the people into characters for the Duggar brand.

That being said I can't really feel sorry for them, at least not for the headship(s) because they signed up to subject themselves to it!

I don't think you can edit " Stupid" INTO a video. The person has to pretty much say something dumber than dumb or act stupid to "seem stupid".

I don't think TLC edits for either clarity or quality of content, but stupid is as stupid does.

I think Anna is THE stupidest Duggar. I also think Josh realizes what a stupid airhead he married now, too.

He's so over her. And when somebody as indoctrinated as Josh Duggar was/ is to cherish traditional marriage and home values gives his wife a smirk and side- eye like " OMG, just shut up, stupid" on national TV, then, IMO, she's a prattling FOOL behind closed doors.

[Coco]

Maybe TLC can't edit stupid into it, but they can give loose scripts and write plot storylines that will make them stumble. These are people with 1) very little sense of humor or fun, 2) a limited exposure to the world, and 3) religious compulsion to appear superior and serious... and the ignorance just kind of happens by itself. :lol:

Humor and subtlety are a huge part of appearing smart. It's more absorbed than taught. The Duggar clan have so little of it, apparently. Oh well, there was that one time JD joked to his dad "I'll be back". So who knows.

Just think all that we owe of our personalities to the movies we saw growing up, right? I mean, what would we have been without overhearing SNL, M*A*S*H, Johnny Carson, Chevy Chase, the 80's and 90's sitcoms like the Cosby Show, all the great movies like Speilberg's... gosh even re-runs of the Andy Griffith show and I Love Lucy. Everything our parents watched without thinking about "little ears in the cornfield" when we were all little bitty kids. I'm still catching up on what i missed in the 2000's but... the Duggar kids have SO MUCH CATCHING UP to do to even have a hint of a clue. Plus they're learning from JB.

IMO it's totally obvious that Jessa on down are sneaking pop culture on the sly, at least fashion culture. 8-)

[Maple]

Im not going to snark on Anna's births, I've had 3. The only person in the room other than medical staff during my labor and deliveries was my husband. Millions of people have seen Anna's births. When you stay a few nights on a maternity ward you hear all kinds of situations--screaming, yelling, crying, etc. It's so incredibly personal and life changing.

As someone who deals with pain by being loud I'm pretty insulted by the comments made about Anna in labor. I've had 4 and I've also spent a lot of time in the maternity ward (3 c-sections with 4 day stays) and you hear it all. I also used to participate in midwifery and doula email lists back in the day, took doula and midwifery courses and did a lot of research. I've seen a ton of birth videos, from the training videos to friends sharing their homebirth videos. I'd say being quiet like Michelle was very uncommon. I watched the recent episode with all the births and I thought Anna did fine. It's important to remember people have different labors. I had difficult labors compared to others so was louder than if I would've had easy labors. With my second, which was a vbac, I was loud, but I also laughed and cracked jokes in between contractions during transition...the nurses said if I can laugh at that point, I'm doing better than most. But I yelled, cursed, moaned, cried etc during contractions. It's how I got through them. And I'd say it's pretty low to judge a woman for how she deals with the pain of labor. Judge her for being vapid and making idiotic comments online, or for staying in a cult or for thinking it's cool to be submissive to your husband...but how she reacts in labor means nothing.

AS for her worrying about the baby drowning in the waterbirth...IIRC, she was in labor when she made those comments. I made a lot of stupid comments in labor too, things I knew but when you are in labor your brain takes a back seat. Her worrying about it doesn't mean she doesn't know those things. I obsessed over things like my newborn baby's blue hands or constant blinking - even though I knew intellectually that it was likely normal right after birth, I still vocalized my worry. The whole experience of giving birth is so intense that you just kind of lose yourself at points. It's normal and nothing Anna did in labor means anything that has been suggested.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Tbh, I've never had a kid, but if I handle labor as well as I handled wisdom teeth and gallbladder surgery, I'm going to make Anna seem mellow. :lol: unless I tie my tubes now.

Tbh, she's probably just got a low pain tolerance, Anna doesn't strike me as having a flair for the dramatic like some of her SILs.

[Pretzel]

The people who judge Anna for those 10 minutes of laboring that they see on TLC should be ashamed of themselves. How very incompassionate towards women in general these statements are. :evil:

Every individual is and feels differently, pain included. Also, I feel like pain does not equal pain at all times. I had some pretty tough things done to my body without anesthesia and my doctors always said that it was really rare that someone handled the pain as silently as I did.

And then I have a throat infection or period cramps and I'm whimpering like a beaten dog. Different stuff hurts differently for different people.

[SassyPants]

Actually, I think Anna should be applauded for how she has handled pregnancies and her televised labor and deliveries. I just hope that SHE had a CHOICE in what was filmed and by whom, as well as what was aired. She's been shown to be tough and a trooper. Thus far Jessa has also been shown to be a trooper.

[Seven]

It's true for "other people" to experience labor & delivery in any array of screaming, hysteria, or silence, but the Duggar's have been telling us for years that they do things differently. They know how to have children, in fact they may be the only people on the planet who have ever experienced it. We see Michelle just slide those kids out without blinking, But did you see how they sanitized Jill's L&D? She may have been calm the whole time, or she may have gone crazy during contractions, we will never know. But if Anna's L&D's were sanitized like Jill's then she goes bat shit crazy and they cut the worst out. This is a good reason I can see for not televising your labor experience. I know I wasn't pleasant to be around during some of my unmedicated pitocin contractions, but I WAS IN CHARGE.

[BrownieMomma]

Do you all ever think that maybe it's the editing and scripted things on the show that make them seem stupid? I feel like if I had to stage things or do activities I wouldn't normally do, or be on those talking heads then I would sound ridiculous too.

I am pretty sure that TLC edits everything so that they can make the people into characters for the Duggar brand.

That being said I can't really feel sorry for them, at least not for the headship(s) because they signed up to subject themselves to it!

I regularly think TLC throws them under the bus. I just don't know if the Duggars realize it or the money and fame is enough that they don't care.

[mommyzhot]

I felt bad for Anna having cameras on her. I would have refused. Then I saw lazy azz Josh taking a nap. What a twit

[BarbaraMary]

It's been brought up before that it is very normal to send the spouse off for a nap. They aren't helping anyone by being exhausted.