Anna Duggar - Merge

[Toothfairy]

Anna is fundie. She won't leave that's sin. Getting a job, maybe as a nanny or lay midwife. She's too far in to just hop off the fundie train. My main concern is the m kids and now m kid number 4. With Josh being fired she has no insurance

[calimojo]

Anna is instinctively a better mother than what we have ever seen demonstrated by Michelle. If she moves on, or takes charge, I suspect it will be a result of her maternal instinct. I don't think she is too bright, nor likely able to support herself and 4 kids, but I think she really has a strong connection with her kids and seems very engaged with them. Of course having number 4 might change that, especially in light of everything else.

Still, Anna does have some people in her life outside of the cult. 3 siblings, and maybe even some friends she has made in DC. Maybe that will give her strength to eventually do something.

What I wish could happen would be that Jill allow Anna and the Kids to live with her in the McMansion until Anna can take some time to really process what to do next. Jill seems close enough with Anna and I doubt she would resent Anna for what has happened as Anna was not around at the time. Jill's house seems big enough to share the space for awhile.

And as passionate as Anna seems to be about home births, perhaps she could train as a midwife and she and Jill could open their own Midwifery business.

[Seasoner_Of_Life]

She may not be fundie royalty anymore, but I bet she doesn't leave. It is burned in her brain that this is the ONLY way she can live and glorify Christ. They are ruined. He will never be able to get work in NWA again because of how people will view them. So I don't even see him being able to be self-employed. My guess is slipping into a low key, quiet Headquarters job, staying behind the scenes, and living a struggling, quiverfull life his family did pre-TLC.

[linnea27]

They aren't going to go into hiding or live in poverty. Judging by the leghumpers comments on social media, there are a ton of people who see this as a "powerful testimony to Christ's redemptive work." They will return to Arkansas, their church and the community will rally behind them, and they will continue much as normal. All their peers with whom they choose to associate will also believe that Josh was a victim of female immodesty and has been forgiven by God. TLC hasn't even officially cancelled the show, just temporarily removed it from the line up.

[nana sew dear]

Anna really needs to figure out what she will do because if this thing goes any deeper, Josh might not be allowed contact with his children until they're 18. I'm not saying he is still molesting or that he hurt his own kids but she needs to consider all of the scenarios.

[JenniferJuniper]

I live in the area and have to say I respectfully disagree a bit. I do think the majority of the mainstream Conservatives of the area will shun them. There will be fanatics and their "community", but the majority that respected them feel like they are nothing but frauds now.

Agree. The leghumpers on the internet aren't real people in a way. Just rabid fans or liberal haters or gay bashers. The people in their actual community, even those who tolerated them, won't look at them the same way.

[lascuba]

I live in the area and have to say I respectfully disagree a bit. I do think the majority of the mainstream Conservatives of the area will shun them. There will be fanatics and their "community", but the majority that respected them feel like they are nothing but frauds now.

I really hope you're right. Do you know how much contact they have with the mainstream Conservatives versus the fundies? I'm wondering if they're lives will change that much even with mainstream shunning in their area.

[Idolatry]

I hadn't thought about the CPS angle, but yes, CPS will have to be involved after all this.

CPS has the ability to make Anna's life very difficult. They can mess with her on many fronts including these kids' "education," eating habits, everything. Especially with no treatment for Josh, a family that reacted the way they did, and with a family this high profile, this would be a scary case as a CPS worker. They are going to be scrutinized, and that includes Anna. CPS can be terrifying, in this case they have a lot of reason to be in their business, and that might be another few straws on Anna's back.

[singsingsing]

I hadn't thought about the CPS angle, but yes, CPS will have to be involved after all this.

CPS has the ability to make Anna's life very difficult. They can mess with her on many fronts including these kids' "education," eating habits, everything. Especially with no treatment for Josh, a family that reacted the way they did, and with a family this high profile, this would be a scary case as a CPS worker. They are going to be scrutinized, and that includes Anna. CPS can be terrifying, in this case they have a lot of reason to be in their business, and that might be another few straws on Anna's back.

Can anyone in the know confirm this? These incidents happened over a decade ago and there's no evidence that anything has happened since then. Would CPS launch an investigation based on something that was investigated (with no charges laid) years ago?

[Idolatry]

Can anyone in the know confirm this? These incidents happened over a decade ago and there's no evidence that anything has happened since then. Would CPS launch an investigation based on something that was investigated (with no charges laid) years ago?

I don't work for CPS or anything, but I would guess that publicly admitting to molesting little girls in another state would be the kind of thing CPS cares about. They've investigated a lot less.

[salamanderletter99]

Um, except that Asian countries focus on facts instead of fiction. There's a lot of rote learning, but a HUGE focus on STEM fields. There's also a greater appreciation for a richer variety of art. I taught in South Korea and while there is a dearth of critical thinking in schools, there is a LOT of learning. Most families HIGHLY value education in ALL areas, so kids are pushed in a variety of ways. Most of my students went to school all day, then went to after school academies where they studied EVERYTHING -- art, music, science, math, English, French, TaeKwonDo, etc. Korea is not alone in this -- Japan has similar values, and the richer China gets, the more their kids are pushed ahead. Families want their children to get as far ahead as possible; children are expected to care for their parents when they are older, so they want their kids to be able to provide. :lol: amongst other reasons... There is NO comparison between their educational preparation and the Duggars.

Thank you. My best students tend to be from Asian countries, (Korea, Japan, China, India). ROTE learning doesn't mean "uneducated". Josh's education is largely backwoods hillbilly from Gothard approved "textbooks" taught by their mom who only has a high school diploma and no professional pedagogical background.

[veron1que]

Can anyone in the know confirm this? These incidents happened over a decade ago and there's no evidence that anything has happened since then. Would CPS launch an investigation based on something that was investigated (with no charges laid) years ago?

I'm not an expert. But I would think given that the record has now been erased there is no legal action CPS can take from the incident in the police report. That record doesn't exist in their eyes, so any investigation of Josh would occur only in the event of new information.

However, all it takes for a CPS investigation is a report of suspected misdoing to a minor child. So if someone (and I'm sure someone will/has) reports that Josh is molesting his daughter, CPS would investigate.

[Idolatry]

I'm not an expert. But I would think given that the record has now been erased there is no legal action CPS can take from the incident in the police report. That record doesn't exist in their eyes, so any investigation of Josh would occur only in the event of new information.

However, all it takes for a CPS investigation is a report of suspected misdoing to a minor child. So if someone (and I'm sure someone will/has) reports that Josh is molesting his daughter, CPS would investigate.

You mean like his public admission on Facebook? Or do you think that is expunged too?

[bunnybunz]

CPS has to investigate everything, and I'm sure at least one person has reported them since then. I don't like to think that Josh is molesting his daughters, but after seeing all the gothard methods for "treating" victims of sexual abuse that his parents used to "treat" his sisters, I think everyone in that family needs to be investigated and some should be in jail, far far away from little girls.

BTW, Josh and Anna's personal site ja20.com has been taken down. I wonder what that's all about...

[singsingsing]

I personally do think that CPS should investigate both Josh and Anna's family, and Jim Bob and Michelle's family. They should do a very thorough investigation - and if none of them have anything to hide, they have nothing to worry about. Whether they will or not is another story, and for some reason I'm really not optimistic.

[veron1que]

You mean like his public admission on Facebook? Or do you think that is expunged too?

No, but he didn't say "I molested girls when I was a teen" he said he acted inexcusably and left it at that. All I'm saying is that I don't think CPS can use the police report as grounds for investigation any longer because it doesn't exist.

However, like I said, I'm sure many people are reporting Josh as a molester, and he will be investigated because of *new* complaints. Singsing was asking about CPS launching an investigation in 2015 about the 2002 incidents.

[lascuba]

I'd like it to happen, but I really doubt CPS would get involved now. There are no current allegation of abuse. Josh's actions--those that we know of and are a matter of public record--occurred when he was a minor, and those records were sealed and now they have been expunged. And even if he were still considered an issue, he's no longer living with the children he abused, and only one of those children is a currently a minor for that to be an issue for CPS. There hasn't been any indications that Josh has abused his own children, so CPS won't get involved there. Legally, Josh is 100% in the clear here. Unfortunately.

This could very well vary by state, but CPS/family court isn't as stringent as one would like them to be in sexual abuse cases. If a family member abused only certain children but not others in the household, then he'd only be required to stay away from those he abused. I know of cases where the kid that was abused gets removed from the home because the abuser still lives there, but the other children stay, because they haven't been proven to be abused. Or the abuse could leave, have kids elsewhere and live with them without CPS getting involved at all. It's all kinds of fucked up. It'd be different if the abuser gets put on an offenders' registry and court ordered to stay away from all children, but from what we know about the specifics of Josh's case, it's possible nothing would even ping CPS's radar.

[eh02]

If any parent who even barely knows them so much as saw Josh LOOK at a kid, they're probably calling CPS right now.

I don't know if there's any way CPS can investigate based on this old report alone. But Josh better be hoping he has a REALLY clean past ever since then or else I would anticipate it is not at all unlikely CPS could be knocking on their door in the near future, whether he's molested any other children or not.

[Toothfairy]

I don't know about cps being called now. Since its been 12 years but I could see someone calling or so mine checking up on them.

From experience, cps will intervene if mom has a boyfriend or husband who abuses her kids but she refuses to leave him. It's not the same situation with Josh tho.

[veron1que]

The success of a CPS investigation also heavily depends on the compliance of the parents (if CPS is playing by the rules). The parents have rights that are protected. So unless someone has witnessed abuse, seen physical evidence of abuse, or has been told by the child that they are being abused there isn't much CPS can do beyond asking J&A.

CPS can go to Josh and Anna's house and ask to talk to the children and J&A can say no. (Many parents will allow their kids to be interviewed because they "have nothing to hide," but they can't be forced to). Unless there is substantial evidence for probable cause for a warrant. CPS can't enter the home and can't take the kids away.

[Mylnijya]

I don't think CPS should get involved with Anna and the kids. That will tear them up even more. We do have to remember that 12 years ago is not yesterday. A lot of people mature past destructive behaviors. Has Josh? We here on the internets don't know. but I think in regards to his kids Josh should be evaluated based on who he is TODAY and not who he was.

[sisterwives]

Anna drank a lifetime supply of the koolaid a long time ago. She has a role to play and loves playing it.

But honestly, I could see Josh leaving her one day. Now that his image is tarnished it wouldn't matter. I find him to be very distant and unbonded to events and people. Like Dexter the serial killer.

Yeah I always figured that she loved Josh more than he could ever love her. I agree with him leaving her one day with a small clan of children. Before this scandal? I don't think it would've happened, but the guy doesn't have anything to lose anymore.

[breakfree]

Regarding CPS, unless things have changed A LOT since I was working with them (I was never a CPS worker but did have to interact with them on a regular basis in an official capacity) they cannot and will not take action unless someone calls them with a current complaint. I very highly doubt they will get involved now unless a current report is made. What he could be reported for and by who is unclear, frankly- even if he is doing things to his kids, do we seriously think Anna is going to report her headship or that someone else in his family is going to do so? This is wishful thinking in the extreme, and they don't really seem close enough to anyone else for someone else to see or hear something and make a report. It's not even like the kids have teachers or outside the family adults who are not also brainwashed to confide in. They're just there in their twisted little nest.

[LongDogMom]

I hope she is able to keep it together for the sake of her children, but the more important question IMO is whether this will drive the survivors over the edge and whether they are able to get the support they need. TLC needs to step it up and provide counselling for all of the Duggars, and housing and schooling for all of the adult "kids"

I worry about that as well, especially Jana who seems especially broken and vulnerable. From what I've seen of the pamphlet that ATI hands out about this very situation (makes you wonder how common it is since the pamphlet came out before Josh did this!), it places most of the blame on the victims for dressing or acting in an immodest way that couldn't help but create lust in the male and make him do what he did. It also basically says that if (by a miracle) the girl(s) are not at fault, then God increases their spirit which is a gift, and therefore if given a choice between the molestation never having happened or having it happen but having their spirit increased, they should choose the latter and see it as a gift from God! (Yeah cuz molestation is such a gift).

I worry that Jana may have gotten the lion's share of the abuse and she is clearly struggling. I worry she may feel guilt-ridden and full of shame and feel her purity is damaged. Jana is so very private that I worry the publicity about this will add to her pain and embarassment. I hope it all doesn't push her into doing harm to herself in any way.

[snark_bait]

Anna is fundie. She won't leave that's sin. Getting a job, maybe as a nanny or lay midwife. She's too far in to just hop off the fundie train. My main concern is the m kids and now m kid number 4. With Josh being fired she has no insurance

Thanks to Obamacare, losing a job and being pregnant means that she qualifies for Medicare coverage throughout the pregnancy/delivery, and the kids would qualify anyway if they really don't have $. Given their 19KAC income, they should be able to afford private insurance, though.