Anna Duggar - Merge

[sense and nonsense]

Okay, I can laugh at myself! I am distressed about this scandal.

There is said to have been video at the time the incidents were reported. If I were Anna and I knew that, my heart would start pounding if anyone told me that they found a video of Josh at 15 that they want to show me.

I think the video you're talking about are the police tapes of the interviews. They were made in 2006 when the police report was made. They wouldn't be made available to the public. Also, they didn't exist in 2005.

[antwan]

Slightly unrelated to your post but not totally. I just see people assuming they are poor from that one episode and I think everyone who still thinks the Keller are the poorest people out there should read this. It was written by one of Anna's sister's husband who left the cult.

duggarswithoutpity.blogspot.com/2009/01/insights-from-insider.html

I'm not sure this was the blog this was originally posted on.

I read it in the past, and just reread it. This post does not, in any way, negate the fact that the Kellers are 1) simple and 2) financially underprivileged (poor?)

I have seen the Keller home in Fl. You can view an aerial shot online (public info). I have to say, the Keller sister's husband's description of the Keller property is, at worst, an exaggeration, and at best, misleading. The "soccer field" and "tennis court" is a dirt clearing with a net strung over the middle. And the pool is not visible at all. It's not an inground, and I don't even see and above ground. Maybe I'm missing it, but I dont' think so. There is only one structure that could maybe be a "pool", and it's smaller than the size of a truck. What IS visible is a mobile home, a trailer, an RV, and several outbuildings of some sort,....and lots of barren land in the midst of Florida brush. This relative who attempted to paint the Kellers as having "stuff" (a.k.a.not poor) didn't do a banner job at all. And logically, anyone with financial means is not going to raise 8 children in a 1248 sqft mobile home, on a property whose total value (home and land) is $40,000 (again, a matter of public record). The Kellers are financially disadvantaged (or at least were before they hooked up with the Duggars).

Btw, the following resources/articles are a bit...chilling?..in light of the current fallout:

http://www.realhelpforteens.com/index.p ... icle&id=12

(Move down to "Is there any help for me, Pastor?, then to the subtitle "In addition to the above resources...")

http://www.amazon.com/When-Tragedy-Hits ... B000F8S5WW

[Sisterturtle]

I just gave a lecture on this in my course, not two weeks ago. We were discussing how an elevated, male, oldest child can be put into a position of "second-in-command" when there is a weakened woman as a mother in the house. My own words are haunting me this week.

[MissBitters]

Josh may be sorry, but he legitimately cannot empathize with his victims. He can't understand why just saying sorry isn't enough for his adoring public - it was always enough for his parents and church! I don't think he'll do it to his own children, but I do (firmly) believe that he will be/currently is inappropriate with women - sexual harassment, nonconsensual touching. I get more of an "opportunist" vibe, rather than a pedophile one - he didn't PREFER young children or his sisters, exactly, but he damn well took advantage of what was available. I think he feels entitled to women, money, and property, and as long as he follows certain "rules" (for example, he is the head of household and his family are the chosen ones), he will have zero guilt. I see him skirting the line between legal/illegal for the rest of his life. He isn't going to lose any sleep due to his own morality, though he may lose sleep now that he isn't the cool kid (SOOO misunderstood, POOOOOOR Josh!!).

This has been my feelings about Josh's actions. I think his sense of entitlement as the oldest son combined with his parents' screwed up attitudes towards sex & relationships created the opportunity for him to engage in unhealthy sexual behavior. It's possible I am fooling myself because the thought of him harming his daughters is absolutely vile, but I don't think he is attracted to prepubescent girls. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of teen girls and/or women reporting sexual harassment from him down the line, though.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think they bought the house in AR because Josh can't go a week with out seeing Ma and Pa.

I see Josh as being emotionally stunted except when he is hating others.

In my own counseling, my counselor told me for a youth to molest members of his own family *may suggest that he was molested as well. (She didn't say may, I am because this is speculation, she said most likely). Personally, this is why I think he is so hateful in his talks about the LGBT community. (I am not saying this community molests anymore than others). When I looked at the ATI crowd in the videos, so many of them looked like creeps. David Waller? Bill Gothard? Those two are such weird men. Why hasn't ol Bill ever been married and yet gives all this *sound advice for the fundies?

Did anyone see the episode where Josh's family leaves from D.C and Josh is crying in his driveway? (Men, speak up, please, would you actually cry and in front of someone recording you).

Also, I don't believe they knew this was about to break anymore than just a few days before. If they knew, I think TLC would not have had Josh there for the special, throwing around his dumbass remarks to his sisters. I don't think Mullet would have talked about the bikini and mowing the grass. At least I hope she wouldn't. I think Ben's reaction is that Jessa did tell him and he actually wants to take Josh's fat ass outside and cold cock him in the jowls and chins. I don't think Anna would have said "Daddy takes care of the north end".

I found the crying in the driveway scene very odd at the time. Most young men in their mid 20's with a wife and three kids moving on to dream job (for him, at least) would not have reacted that way. It's seemed more akin to a young kid being dropped off at camp for the summer.

It makes more sense now. Josh is not only emotionally stunted and sheltered, he was leaving his protectors for the first time. Quite literally his protectors.

[TaterThotHotDish]

This is OT, so I'll be quick but...

Have you looked at the geneology and/or connections between the sister wives? They are still very much in a cult mindset. Janelle was married to Mari's brother. And David Jessop, Robin's ex, is Christine's cousin. Jenelle's mother married Cody's father. And this is just what I can think of off the top of my head. Sooooooo cult crazy.

OT- Sorry- I had NO idea the Jessop's had ANY relation to the Brown's other than Robin's ex. That's scary! It does seem that most of their children are breaking away and the parents seem fine with it...except the part where their children aren't allowed to speak to them anymore. Thanks for this. It explains a great deal about Christine for me. lol

Random- I really hope Anna has made friends or family in and out of the church family who can talk to her. One of the most frightening aspects of all of this to me is that the victims only have themselves and their oppressors to talk to about all of this. How involved is Derrick's family in their faith? His father was a police officer, right? I don't know why, but I'm hoping he has some sense of morality and law beyond Duggar/Gothard law. If there is any chance for a family to break away, I think it's his.

[ldttwa]

I don't see how anna could ever send those kids to proper school. The bullying would be horrific.

[eri]

I don't see how anna could ever send those kids to proper school. The bullying would be horrific.

Their stunted speech skiws awone would make them waffing stocks.

Seriously, Mackynzie is how old now? I know moomies like Anna think lisps are adorable, but keeping up the baby voice coaching into Mack's kindergarten years and beyond is just cruel.

[DaysAgo]

PLEASE someone tell me that CPS or anyone has asked Anna's kids if Daddy ever touched them in their private areas, especially since Anna admitted on air that "daddy takes care of the south end."

[singsingsing]

Their stunted speech skiws awone would make them waffing stocks.

Seriously, Mackynzie is how old now? I know moomies like Anna think lisps are adorable, but keeping up the baby voice coaching into Mack's kindergarten years and beyond is just cruel.

I'm sorry but that's a really nasty comment to make about little kids. It's one thing when an 8-year-old makes fun of another kid's voice, it's another thing altogether when an adult does it. Mackynzie sounds normal to me, but if she actually has a speech impediment it's not something you just grow out of by the time you're 5 as long as your mother does everything right. And if you think sending a kid with a speech impediment to school is cruel, I don't even know what to say. Kids will bully other kids for anything and everything.

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

I'm sorry but that's a really nasty comment to make about little kids. It's one thing when an 8-year-old makes fun of another kid's voice, it's another thing altogether when an adult does it. Mackynzie sounds normal to me, but if she actually has a speech impediment it's not something you just grow out of by the time you're 5 as long as your mother does everything right. And if you think sending a kid with a speech impediment to school is cruel, I don't even know what to say. Kids will bully other kids for anything and everything.

Agreed. That's still within the normal range for some 5 year olds. Kids develop at different paces.

[SassyPants]

I'm sorry but that's a really nasty comment to make about little kids. It's one thing when an 8-year-old makes fun of another kid's voice, it's another thing altogether when an adult does it. Mackynzie sounds normal to me, but if she actually has a speech impediment it's not something you just grow out of by the time you're 5 as long as your mother does everything right. And if you think sending a kid with a speech impediment to school is cruel, I don't even know what to say. Kids will bully other kids for anything and everything.

Unfortunately, many adults bully too.

[HarryPotterFan]

I'm sorry but that's a really nasty comment to make about little kids. It's one thing when an 8-year-old makes fun of another kid's voice, it's another thing altogether when an adult does it. Mackynzie sounds normal to me, but if she actually has a speech impediment it's not something you just grow out of by the time you're 5 as long as your mother does everything right. And if you think sending a kid with a speech impediment to school is cruel, I don't even know what to say. Kids will bully other kids for anything and everything.

If you think sending a kid with a speech impediment to school is cruel, then you must think my parents are cruel (they're not). And if she does have a speech impediment (which we can't tell based off the little we've seen and speech impediment is note abnormal at that age) she needs a speech tutor. And public schools do have speech tutors on site (at least mine did).

[FloraKitty35]

Unfortunately, many adults bully too.

Adults can and will bully just as fast as kids, over anything and everything.

[SassyPants]

Adults can and will bully just as fast as kids, over anything and everything.

Yep- that's where the kids learn it.

[Arete]

Their stunted speech skiws awone would make them waffing stocks.

Seriously, Mackynzie is how old now? I know moomies like Anna think lisps are adorable, but keeping up the baby voice coaching into Mack's kindergarten years and beyond is just cruel.

You're an asshole.

[MisUndrstd]

I just gave a lecture on this in my course, not two weeks ago. We were discussing how an elevated, male, oldest child can be put into a position of "second-in-command" when there is a weakened woman as a mother in the house. My own words are haunting me this week.

This supports my theory that JB groomed Josh to be his mini-me. I think JB consciously or unconsciously carefully formed Josh into a version of himself in case anything happened to him that way Josh could carry on the teachings and beliefs that JB holds. I believe Josh was hand-crafted by JB to be the patriarch if anything happened to JB.

[paganhomeschooler]

Their stunted speech skiws awone would make them waffing stocks.

Seriously, Mackynzie is how old now? I know moomies like Anna think lisps are adorable, but keeping up the baby voice coaching into Mack's kindergarten years and beyond is just cruel.

Umm...sometimes kids have speech issues. My son will be going into 2nd grade next year and has been in speech therapy since kindergarten, and he still can't say /r/. FTR, he hasn't been bullied for it, either. We don't baby talk our kids, even when they're babies. One of my other kids also had speech issues, though they were supposedly not bad enough to affect her learning. Her "fabulous" public school refused to do speech therapy, and she still occasionally has issues with her /r/ if she's speaking too fast. She's almost 12.

Oh, and since you want to pick on little kids who might have a language issue, it's *mommies* not *moomies*. :roll:

ETA: I'm glad to see people already addressed this. Should have finished reading the thread first. lol

[Ali]

Umm...sometimes kids have speech issues. My son will be going into 2nd grade next year and has been in speech therapy since kindergarten, and he still can't say /r/. FTR, he hasn't been bullied for it, either. We don't baby talk our kids, even when they're babies. One of my other kids also had speech issues, though they were supposedly not bad enough to affect her learning. Her "fabulous" public school refused to do speech therapy, and she still occasionally has issues with her /r/ if she's speaking too fast. She's almost 12.

Oh, and since you want to pick on little kids who might have a language issue, it's *mommies* not *moomies*. :roll:

ETA: I'm glad to see people already addressed this. Should have finished reading the thread first. lol

I think this is out of line also.

I worry about my four year old' speech. I brought it up with her pediatrician at her last visit and with numerous people. My husband and I try to be really careful how we talk to her. Does that still mean it is our fault?

I worry about her starting kindergarten in the fall because of her speech. I am really hoping she can get some speech therapy through her evil public school if it does not get better.

[purpleskies]

I worry about my four year old' speech. I brought it up with her pediatrician at her last visit and with numerous people. My husband and I try to be really careful how we talk to her. Does that still mean it is our fault?

I worry about her starting kindergarten in the fall because of her speech. I am really hoping she can get some speech therapy through her evil public school if it does not get better.

Hey,

My son was 4 and completely non-verbal (developmental apraxia) when he started kindergarten. I was terrified for him, but his speech therapists encouraged me to send him, so I did, albeit very reluctantly. And it was great! Not only was he not teased, but he was completely included by the other kids and became quite popular with them. Try and not worry. I really think these little ones don't even notice this stuff; they just want to play and learn with their friends.

[Ali]

Hey,

My son was 4 and completely non-verbal (developmental apraxia) when he started kindergarten. I was terrified for him, but his speech therapists encouraged me to send him, so I did, albeit very reluctantly. And it was great! Not only was he not teased, but he was completely included by the other kids and became quite popular with them. Try and not worry. I really think these little ones don't even notice this stuff; they just want to play and learn with their friends.

Thanks for sharing that.

[ldttwa]

I've always had speech issues directly related to hearing issues. Never faced a problem with being bullied for it. I definitely think this news is going to cause far far more problems for them than any speech.

[paganhomeschooler]

I think this is out of line also.

I worry about my four year old' speech. I brought it up with her pediatrician at her last visit and with numerous people. My husband and I try to be really careful how we talk to her. Does that still mean it is our fault?

I worry about her starting kindergarten in the fall because of her speech. I am really hoping she can get some speech therapy through her evil public school if it does not get better.

How is this out of line? Because I said we don't use baby talk? I was trying to point out that kids who aren't baby talked to can still have speech issues because....some kids just have speech issues. :roll: As I put in my post, 2/4 of my kids have/had speech issues through no apparent "cause" that the OP had suggested. How is that out of line??

[Ali]

How is this out of line? Because I said we don't use baby talk? I was trying to point out that kids who aren't baby talked to can still have speech issues because....some kids just have speech issues. :roll: As I put in my post, 2/4 of my kids have/had speech issues through no apparent "cause" that the OP had suggested. How is that out of line??

I meant Eri not you. I am am sorry that I was unclear.

[paganhomeschooler]

I meant Eri not you. I am am sorry that I was unclear.

Gotcha. :) Long quote blocks can get confusing.