When fundies self diagnose / Narcissism thy name is Lori

[salex]

Ah, godly marriage and Man Worship time again on the Always Learning editorial calendar.

Lori and Ken may be "Always Learning" but they are not educable about non patriarchal marriage. I can't imagine what kind of hell their marriage must have been if what they describe now is "good".

I know Ken thinks there has to be a boss--like in business. What he fails to understand is that some people make partnerships, matrix management, etc work in business so it should be no surprise that partnerships in marriage would work as well. It just requires mutual respect and goals, which Ken and Lori have both suggested they never had.

Oh well. They may prefer to be "holy" but I'm very pleased to be happy in my marriage.

[FundieFarmer]

Did we ever find out if we could paraphrase what was said in Lori's sooper sekrit group, especially from Lori?

[HoneyBunny]

I read this today and immediately thought of Lorken. What would they NOT do? This. What happens when people follow their advice and reproduce without the ability to fund their family? This.

Pull yourself away from your Bible, Lori, and witness reality.

"Denver officer, responding to disturbance, pays for family's dinner"

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_28060 ... lys-dinner

[FundieFarmer]

And today, Lori says she doesn't allow sleepovers for this reason: "I warn against sleepovers because of all of the children who have been molested at them and nothing ever profitable came from sleepovers when I was a child..."

What about friendship, Lori? Did friendship come from sleepovers? And also what about a night alone for your parents?

It's in response to a Facebook comment from a fellow mentor named Nicole, who calls Lori out on her shizzz. (I have a screenshot if she deletes it.)

[dairyfreelife]

And today, Lori says she doesn't allow sleepovers for this reason: "I warn against sleepovers because of all of the children who have been molested at them and nothing ever profitable came from sleepovers when I was a child..."

What about friendship, Lori? Did friendship come from sleepovers? And also what about a night alone for your parents?

It's in response to a Facebook comment from a fellow mentor named Nicole, who calls Lori out on her shizzz. (I have a screenshot if she deletes it.)

Someone else responded that one way is not always the right way as well. I love when she gets called out on her shit.

[FundieFarmer]

Someone else responded that one way is not always the right way as well. I love when she gets called out on her shit.

Love it. Off she goes on another comment espousing the importance of "personal private area" with your husband and recommending "To Train Up a Child" for parents who can't keep their kids out of the master bedroom.

[Loveday]

And today, Lori says she doesn't allow sleepovers for this reason: "I warn against sleepovers because of all of the children who have been molested at them and nothing ever profitable came from sleepovers when I was a child..."

What about friendship, Lori? Did friendship come from sleepovers? And also what about a night alone for your parents?

It's in response to a Facebook comment from a fellow mentor named Nicole, who calls Lori out on her shizzz. (I have a screenshot if she deletes it.)

:) Please to post? Because it's been zapped already. :roll:

ETA: Never mind, I didn't catch that it's on her Facebook page, not on her blog. Sorry about that. :embarrassed:

[dairyfreelife]

Love it. Off she goes on another comment espousing the importance of "personal private area" with your husband and recommending "To Train Up a Child" for parents who can't keep their kids out of the master bedroom.

She also already talked about the "evils" of sleepovers before. I'm not denying that children at sleepovers may get molested. Sadly, I'm sure it does happen. Abusers do abuse children through positions of trust, that's well-known. However, let's be real now, children have sleepovers all the time and are far more often than not, not molested. Also the simple fact that most people in general are not creeps preying on children. It's far more likely for the child's own parent, relative, or grandparent (usually a male relative) to abuse their power than child's friend's parent or teacher.

My parents allowed us in their bedroom all the time. But my parents also sent us all to the ebil public schools and allowed us to have and go to sleepovers and I even went away to camp as a child for a few days. Also, parents were Protestants and our friends that we played with had Catholic parents. We also went to Children's church during the service and went to VBS at the Catholic church our childhood friends attended. My parents didn't see everyone who believed differently than they did as evil sinners headed for hell though.

Did you see where she says Pearls say to keep Passport updated just in case? Pretty sure you can't get a passport if you don't legally register your children as citizens and don't get them a birth certificate and social security card. Also, passports are not cheap (try $150 for first time). I know because I intend to get one after I move for my job at the end of the month. Not for the same reasons as Lori seems to suggest. It's for possible travel, though a little funny because when you enter other countries, the passport is not necessary. You really only need it so you can get back into the U.S. What you may need if you leave the country for another is a visa and travel visas are short lived and work visas are not easy to obtain without a company providing one, so good luck to Lori on her "plan" for maybe needing to leave the country.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Unfortunately, she didn't start the "keep your kids away from sleepovers or they'll be molested" thing. James Dobson (of Focus on the Family) wrote that, adding that things have gotten so much worse in the past few decades (except they haven't - issues just went from being hushed up to covered non-stop in the media). A quick google search shows a ton of paranoid parents declaring that their kids will never go on sleepovers. It's bunker parenting, and it doesn't actually make kids any less vulnerable to sexual abuse.

Re passports - in my community, it was actually fairly common for people to make sure that everyone had a current passport. Then again, it was also fairly common for some people to keep packed suitcases just in case the Nazis came, because they were suffering from PTSD.

[FundieFarmer]

I'm relatively new to actually reading anything Lori-related past her blog, so I was surprised to see that. I lived a pretty sheltered childhood so I was a bit biased but oh heavens Lori.

Thanks for clearing that up, y'all.

What a crazy train to ride.

[lilwriter85]

Yeah Lori has blogged about being against sleepovers before. I think it has been at least two times before. In one of her postings, she referenced an old article by Rachel Campos Duffy. Rachel is a former Real World Cast member who married another RW alum from another season. Her husband Sean Duffy is now a Congressman, who represents a district in Wisconsin. He was also a prosecutor and in her article, Rachel mentioned how he prosecuted sex crime that happened in "good homes". There have been bad incidents that have happened at sleepovers, but i don't think it is a very high percentage.

Lori's blog posting from a couple of years back

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/08/molested-at-sleep-overs.html

Rachel's article that was referenced in that posting

http://www.parentdish.com/2008/02/26/wh ... leepovers/

[Coco]

Unfortunately, she didn't start the "keep your kids away from sleepovers or they'll be molested" thing. James Dobson (of Focus on the Family) wrote that, adding that things have gotten so much worse in the past few decades (except they haven't - issues just went from being hushed up to covered non-stop in the media). A quick google search shows a ton of paranoid parents declaring that their kids will never go on sleepovers. It's bunker parenting, and it doesn't actually make kids any less vulnerable to sexual abuse.

...

oh goodness, James Dobson. My 5 year old is a pill so I tried to read The Strong-Willed Child, or maybe it was Parenting Isn't For Cowards, but iirc the former. It was an old edition. The emphasis on drugs in schools shocked me. It was overwhelming. Made me think maybe this is part of the reason homeschooling took off in the '80's - parents freaked out about drugs.

OT: a great book for dealing with strong-willed kids is The Difficult Child by Stanley Turecki and Leslie Tonner. It's not overly religious and has a ton of encouragement and practical advice. Something about an actual book is even more helpful than a bunch of gentle-parenting short blogs posts.

I'm not surprised James Dobson is another of Lori's inspirations. My parents loved his books, and Mary Pride's... reading them now it's like, what were these parents thinking falling for this crap?

[lilwriter85]

Got caught up on latest Lori entries. Today, she wrote a letter to her mom on Mother's Day. She doesn't trash her mom. Yesterday's post was reference to pornography with Lori's favorite Michael Pearl

[Hisey]

Lori's mother's day letter to her mom was the weirdest thing I ever saw. She included "spanking" in the second sentence! After that came Jesus, then sex.

Those are the three things Lori remembers first about her mom. She got spanked, she was taught to love Jesus, and she was taught about the right time for sex.

If I got a mother's day letter from my daughter like that I would be. . . beyond words. . . I would be so shocked and disappointed.

I want my daughter to remember the times we laughed together, shared our thoughts, built things, make wrapping paper together( we really did this once, but she is probably too young to remember), read book, etc.

No wonder Lori's father cries when he reads the letter.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I read the Michael Pearl post on porn and it just made me start raging.

NO, child molestation is not a new thing, and there's zero evidence that it's increasing. There is more awareness today, but it was always a problem.

NO, there is zero evidence that is a linked to cross-dressing.

NO, there is zero evidence that it is caused by simply viewing porn (although viewing child porn specifically is a sign of a problem).

You know what can actually make kids more vulnerable?

Training them to instantly obey any adult.

Not giving them the tools to say no.

Keeping them so isolated that they don't hear about sexual abuse on TV or in school.

Teaching them to be terrified of CPS workers.

[Coco]

There's just a weird emphasis on child sexual abuse in what the Pearls write. In Created to Be a Helpmeet, Debi talks about how one in four kids is molested by age 10 (or some statistic like that), then she describes a church function where an older boy took a younger kid into the bathroom for a "few minutes" while the mom visited in the other room. It's just fear mongering. The Pearls and their followers thrive on making people afraid. She ends up blaming moms for kids being molested because they aren't keeping close enough watch on them. They even sell that book called Yell and Tell that's supposed to somehow teach parents how to talk to their kids about who they should obey and who they should be afraid of. Which must be difficult since they trust the Pearls.

Then Michael had another blog post where the parents discover their kids are doing inappropriate things together and it drives the parents to backslide. Then this stuff is backed up by people who've survived abuse, posting comments on survivor blogs like Homeschoolers Anonymous and Love, Joy, Feminism -- those physical punishments set these kids up for confusion and deviant behavior, because they want to follow the example and be mean to weaker kids and hit animals and things since that's how their parents deal with frustration and anger toward them.

The Pearls and their followers create their own problems by promoting abuse as a way to train kids up in godliness.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Her new dress looks nice and the post was pretty inoffensive.

I just had to have a bit of an inner laugh, though, because when I've worn similar dresses, I got the "whore of Babylon" feeling. The only way that dress would be considered modest in my area would be if someone would wear a shell with a modest neckline and elbow-length sleeves underneath (which is what I sometimes do for services). Of course, a v-neck like that isn't something that I can wear without showing cleavage - Lori's definition of modesty only works if you are skinny and flat-chested.

[Not trying to shame anyone here - just making the point that there is no magic modesty standard, and that someone like Lori who thinks she's promoting modesty would be considered half-naked here.]

[polecat]

Her new dress looks nice and the post was pretty inoffensive.

I just had to have a bit of an inner laugh, though, because when I've worn similar dresses, I got the "whore of Babylon" feeling. The only way that dress would be considered modest in my area would be if someone would wear a shell with a modest neckline and elbow-length sleeves underneath (which is what I sometimes do for services). Of course, a v-neck like that isn't something that I can wear without showing cleavage - Lori's definition of modesty only works if you are skinny and flat-chested.

[Not trying to shame anyone here - just making the point that there is no magic modesty standard, and that someone like Lori who thinks she's promoting modesty would be considered half-naked here.]

That really is a cute dress, but I agree. It would only really work on someone with a slim, straight-up-and-down body type.

[Firiel]

Her new dress looks nice and the post was pretty inoffensive.

I just had to have a bit of an inner laugh, though, because when I've worn similar dresses, I got the "whore of Babylon" feeling. The only way that dress would be considered modest in my area would be if someone would wear a shell with a modest neckline and elbow-length sleeves underneath (which is what I sometimes do for services). Of course, a v-neck like that isn't something that I can wear without showing cleavage - Lori's definition of modesty only works if you are skinny and flat-chested.

[Not trying to shame anyone here - just making the point that there is no magic modesty standard, and that someone like Lori who thinks she's promoting modesty would be considered half-naked here.]

Yep, exactly. Being thin and flat-chested myself, I can comfortably wear a lot of tops that my large-chested friends can't. And I look perfectly modest while doing so. However, I'm quite tall, so I get screwed in the skirt department. You know those cute, kind of informal sundresses that are all the rage with kids these days? The ones that are short-ish and hit about mid-thigh? Yeah, I look like the whore of Babylon in those. I remember I tried on a kind of flowy green version of one of those dresses, and I looked like I was wearing hipster lingerie.

[usmcmom]

I was glad to read her post because I've wanted to try that company for quite a while. The dresses that pop up on my Facebook page are always cute but I was hesitant to place that first order.

I might order one this week. I've had my eye on a green one with white polka dots. It's calling my name.

[crawfishgirl]

It is interesting that the dress might be considered immodest in some areas - that didn't even cross my mind. I wonder if that also varies by climate? I live in a very warm climate, so for many months of the year, sleeveless shirts and tank tops are very common and I never think twice about them. Except for some work clothes, or maybe church clothes if a person attends a conservative church, that is a common style. Otherwise that dress doesn't appear immodest to me - it's not too tight or emphasizing certain body parts (though that just shows that modesty is definitely defined differently by people based on their own experiences and/or body shape - there is not a 'one size fits all' definition). Too bad the woman inside the dress is such an unhappy and hateful person - that ruins the dress for me.

[polecat]

It is interesting that the dress might be considered immodest in some areas - that didn't even cross my mind. I wonder if that also varies by climate? I live in a very warm climate, so for many months of the year, sleeveless shirts and tank tops are very common and I never think twice about them. Except for some work clothes, or maybe church clothes if a person attends a conservative church, that is a common style. Otherwise that dress doesn't appear immodest to me - it's not too tight or emphasizing certain body parts (though that just shows that modesty is definitely defined differently by people based on their own experiences and/or body shape - there is not a 'one size fits all' definition). Too bad the woman inside the dress is such an unhappy and hateful person - that ruins the dress for me.

My abundant cleavage would be spilling out of a dress with a v-neck like that one has. I don't really consider that immodest, though, because it's just my body and I have large breasts and oh well. But many women would consider that immodest and might be uncomfortable with that amount of exposure.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It is interesting that the dress might be considered immodest in some areas - that didn't even cross my mind. I wonder if that also varies by climate? I live in a very warm climate, so for many months of the year, sleeveless shirts and tank tops are very common and I never think twice about them. Except for some work clothes, or maybe church clothes if a person attends a conservative church, that is a common style. Otherwise that dress doesn't appear immodest to me - it's not too tight or emphasizing certain body parts (though that just shows that modesty is definitely defined differently by people based on their own experiences and/or body shape - there is not a 'one size fits all' definition). Too bad the woman inside the dress is such an unhappy and hateful person - that ruins the dress for me.

Exactly my point - the definition of modesty varies. I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with the dress.

My particular area tends to be pretty modest because of the large Orthodox Jewish presence. It's not uncommon to see people grocery shopping in black suits with hats, or long skirts/long sleeves/stockings/hair coverings. In summer. I also work in a pretty conservative profession (this is what I need to wear to court for motions and trials - even in summer: http://harcourts.com/information/call-to-the-bar/)

Climate is part of it. I've always seen anything sleeveless as very bare - fine for the beach or the gym, but not really office attire and definitely not for services. My kids' school has a dress code requiring sleeves.

I know I sometimes have cleavage showing when I'm at the gym or around the neighborhood. In Lori's world, that's enough to assume I'm a slut. Well, if I wore that dress without a shell underneath - the same style that Lori has deemed modest and comfortable - I'd have cleavage showing.

[Koala]

Good to see Lori keeping it modest and frugal like she encourages other moms to do!

"Yes dear, just pile your children on the floor to sleep and dress all 10 of them out of a rag bag. Meanwhile, would you like to see the new dress I ordered online? It's horribly expensive (and what I'd tell you to buy groceries for a month with), :embarrassed: but I will wear it FOREVER so it's totally not hypocritical!"

[ViolaSebastian]

And of course, she lets us all know she's a size six. Because we all know that the lower the number the size is, the better wife and mother you are. :roll: