When fundies self diagnose / Narcissism thy name is Lori

[Koala]

She deleted it. Because she's all about sweeping things under the rug.

[lilwriter85]

"If every preacher had to get up to the pulpit and confess the sins of their youth before preaching, there wouldn't be many preachers in the pulpit. Sins of one's youth shouldn't have to be exposed before teaching truth."

Sorry, Lori, I disagree. And if that's your mentality, I want to be nowhere near your church because God only knows what you people are hiding.

On topic of church, it would be interesting to know if Lori's church buddies agree with her take on the Duggars. Lori attends a megachurch, so there is no way she knows everyone. She does attend church meetings. Several months ago, she mentioned a church meeting. She isn't mentioned anywhere on her church's website as being a mentor.

Lori and Ken have said that the church sends women to Lori to be mentored. Lori has said in a couple of blog postings that women and/or couples sent to her and Ken, rejected them. The church Lori attends has been described as a surfer church or rock and roll church. The head pastor of the church, is the father of two of the members of the band Switchfoot. The church also used to promote Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill stuff. I think some of the people at that church including elders, staff, and clergy are disgusted with the Duggars.

[polecat]

"If every preacher had to get up to the pulpit and confess the sins of their youth before preaching, there wouldn't be many preachers in the pulpit. Sins of one's youth shouldn't have to be exposed before teaching truth."

No, Lori, not every sin needs to be dredged up. But we're not talking about sins. We're talking about crime. And you bet your coconut oil-lube I want to know if a pastor of mine has been neck-deep in criminal acts. If he (or she) has raped someone, murdered someone, molested someone, or robbed someone, I think that information is owed the congregation.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Firiel - yes, Lori is not particularly bright, and she seems to really have difficulty with black and white thinking, and in understanding that you can't simply take things at face value. I do wonder about the brain tumor or a learning disability, because those areas are so extreme while she's relatively functional in other areas. She reminds me of some other people I know with specific learning disabilities that were never really addressed, who become extremely defensive and angry to cover up lack of understanding. [This is not to bash people with learning disabilities! They are very common, my husband and sister both have them, I know I have specific areas that are much weaker than others, and it's possible to identify where the specific disability lies and figure out ways to function around it. I'm talking about an issue that I've noticed with several people who DON'T acknowledge any problem, who feel confused and threatened when they don't understand things, and who respond by getting angry.]

Lori doesn't know how to be subtle. She paints her black and white thinking as a virtue. Hole in the diaphragm notwithstanding, at this point, she is relatively honest about her views.

I'm not sure how functional Ken is IRL. He managed to build a business, so I suppose a certain amount of surface charm works for consultants (many of whom sound like they are bullshitters and constantly giving a sales pitch). His understanding, though, isn't very deep and his technique is pretty obvious to see through. He pretends to listen and agree with someone. Then he goes on to repeat the same position he always had, and doesn't bother to change a thing or deeply consider his position. He also gets angry if challenged too much - any discussion needs to be about him imparting his wisdom, and he can't tolerate anyone questioning him. He also buys into a very Us v. Them worldview.

Re kids and followers:

I suspect her internet bark is louder than her bite. The kids see her as being somewhat helpless, and she disagrees with a lot of stuff at her church.

[FundieWatcher]

Ken, just let it go.

Seriously though: what is his point in doing this THREE times? I get his reasoning for the first response (ETA: I get why he posted the first time, not his reasoning for defending a molester), but why is he repeating himself twice? What's the goal here?

I imagine they are getting comments disagreeing with them left and right. So many that he feels he needs to justify his opinion again.

He gets angry at rumors, but then posts the rumor that it is the police chief that leaked the information. That is still a rumor right?

[jerkit]

She deleted it. Because she's all about sweeping things under the rug.

If she deletes it, the opinion no longer exists. In fact, every deleted comment is a convert.

[Koala]

From FB:

Why are you deleting comments?

Minors are certainly held accountable for their actions "under law." That is precisely what the juvenile justice system is for.

Lori's going to have to get back up deleters at this rate...

From the blog comments-

The news media has simply jumped at this opportunity to drag a good family through the mud because of past mistakes.

Translation:

The big mean tv told everyone about all of the children Josh molested! Can you imagine how that makes him feel?

Serial molestation is just a mistake. Haven't you ever spilled a glass of milk or had a fender bender?

Why can't anyone mind their own business anymore?

Translation:

The world would be a better place if everyone would just look the other way! I love 19 Kids and Counting and the Duggar family! Now what am I going to watch????

[FundieWatcher]

I don't think the Duggars put themselves on TV so people would "mind their own business". They wanted to be seen, heard and talked about.

[Koala]

I don't think the Duggars put themselves on TV so people would "mind their own business". They wanted to be seen, heard and talked about.

Except when they don't...like when they are harboring a serial child molester

[lilwriter85]

I don't think the Duggars put themselves on TV so people would "mind their own business". They wanted to be seen, heard and talked about.

Yup, they all liked the attention from it. Money was likely a huge reason as to why they did the show. While Boob's other businesses have done well and the family was frugal, they were probably still struggling. Boob and Mullet admitted to church handouts and IIRC, they struggled before the regular show to get the TTH finished.

Lori can't comprehend that people on reality shows go on there for attention or other reasons. Now, the Duggars have used the "we use our show to minister" excuse many times. One of my friends has an uncle who is a Presbyterian minister. He went to divinity school and did interships and other things for years. He always got pissed at the Duggars calling themselves "ministers". A former co-worker of mine has a son who also went to divinity school. I'm in contact with via FB, there she said her son said that divinity school was no picnic. I was raised Catholic and had one relative who became priest and two family friends who are ordained deacons. Their education and training wasn't easy. It pisses me off that a lot of people go off and work to get theological degrees, religious leadership training, etc and the Duggars with zero theological education or religious leadership training consider themselves "TV ministers".

The Duggars have profited from their TV show in other ways. They have spoken at mainstream Christian conferences. We all know that they do it for money and probably looked down on those mainstream Christians at the conferences. The Duggars have used mainstream Christians to make money and they have used Lori and her ilk. There is no way that the Duggars would ever care to be friends with Lori. All she is/was to them ,was someone ,bought into their bullshit and paid money for it.

If the Duggars wanted a quiet life without ridicule, they should have never signed up to a reality show especially with the Josh stuff.

[Loveday]

The latest comment:

Being persecuted happens to ALL Christians. Josh will come through this because he has repented. Josh (and his family) knows that he is doing good, right and the Truth!

It's hard being persecuted but then again look at Jesus.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[Firiel]

The latest comment:

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

This has to be the most egregious use of the Christian persecution complex that I have EVER seen.

:wtf:

[Koala]

This has to be the most egregious use of the Christian persecution complex that I have EVER seen.

:wtf:

Oh, fuck that. People finding out that you are a serial child molester is not persecution. He deserves a lot fucking worse if you ask me.

It's like they are miffed that he couldn't commit his crimes in private and think it's a shame that he got caught. Sick son of a bitch. I just can't with humanity....

What kind of drugs are these bastards on??

[jerkit]

Firiel, did you ever get communication from her re: your banning?

[polecat]

The latest comment:

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Ah, so now we're comparing Jesus with child molesters ...

[FundieWatcher]

Persecuted? He wasn't even prosecuted. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[slickcat79]

Ken sure is wading pretty deep into the shit in defense of Josh Duggar. He posted AGAIN today:

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2015/05/following-josh-duggars-example.html

Odd how he's so defensive of a serial child molester.

Josh and his parents represent a textbook definition of hypocrisy. They repeatedly and explicitly told the world that gay and transgender people (in particular) were a danger to children, while covering up Josh's crimes. And Lorken keeps harping on the fact that Josh was only FOURTEEN, so they feel badly for him due to his youth. Fuck them, his victims were even younger...at least one as young as 4 or 5. Where is the outrage on their behalf?

Lori claims that the girls no longer feel victimized, but if Josh's life can be ruined over this, why not his victims' lives? It's possible the girls do not feel harmed. It's possible that forgiving Josh would be a good thing for them and their recovery. But Lori doesn't know shit. And she does NOT get to decide their feelings for them. Lori found it hard to forgive her own family for not bringing her a potato (that she didn't even ask for) when she was sick, but molestation victims should just forgive and forget? Makes sense :roll:

[Koala]

Lori posted this comment as a post on her FB and then quickly deleted it (it's something she wrote on her blog earlier):

Anyone who is still feeling like a victim many years after someone did something to them or something happened to them needs to do an intense study on Romans 6, 7 and 8 and learn about their new life in Christ and what Christ accomplished on the cross for them. They are no longer a victim. They are a child of God, "a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light" {1 Peter 2:9}. Now, believe it and begin walking in newness of life! I encourage you to watch this video, sing it out loud and believe it!

No matter the hurt

Or how deep the wound is

No matter the pain

Still the truth is

The cross has made

The cross has made you flawless.

She is shaming the victims!

Ken is weighing in on the blog.

READER:

These people have a TV show revolving around their family life. Therefore, any viewers of their show have a right to discuss the issues that have come to light. I feel sad that in so many places I see people blaming Christianity for this. I have read many comments where it seems as though the commenter is celebrating the family's 'downfall' and denouncing all Christians as bad parents. This is a real shame. I hope that Josh has been truly rehabilitated, but I think that had I been the Duggars, I would have handled the situation more aggressively. Before anyone jumps down my throat for seeming to criticize or judge the family, when you open your household up to the public via TV, judgment will follow. If this was a private family, I don't think people would be so harsh and unforgiving in their opinions. I just think its a bit unreasonable to say in essence, 'who are we to judge' given their show. If people want to avoid judgment from the public on their family, reality TV is the last place to go. I pray for healing for all......

Ken Alexander:

Annie, what you are doing with an accusatory question based on zero facts is exactly what this post is trying to get stopped. We love the victims, and have loved watching them grow up as normal, fun loving and mature believers. Unless you know something about these victims that we do not, why not do the American thing and presume innocence and the best, at least until you hear something from them to the contrary?

What about the four sisters? What is there to say? They love their brother dearly and forgave him long ago? They are thrilled that he stopped his behavior and grew up? They too have sins of there own so they understand how sin is awful, but needs forgiveness and a Savior? Perhaps most of all... What about the sisters? If the world had cared one bit about them they would have left this dirty secret buried where the law declared it should be buried. Please don't torture the sisters and their precious family then ask, "What about the sisters?" Much more harm will potentially come to them from the revelation of these unseemly facts than had In Touch cared one bit about the sisters and many other detractors cared one bit about the sisters. That is the hypocritical part of this story of "What about the sisters?"

Ken Alexander:

No Rebecca,

The media and the detractors are not dragging the family through the mud because of the sins of a 14 year old. It is actually against the world's belief system to blame 14 year olds. They are attacking because they are like dogs with a rag in its mouth that won't let go. They want to destroy conservative Christianity and have the whole body of Christian love shown by the Duggar family come crashing down based on one set of incidents 12 years ago. They want to disqualify everything built and make it look ugly because they find the Duggars to be a threat to their lifestyles and view of what society should be. Imagine what would happen if true Christians had large families again? That is the threat they hate most. To have 19 well-adjusted, mature believing young adults all having 5-10 kids of there own. In a generation this nation wold become dominated by Christians again.

He is insane, and I am beginning to wonder what all of these people are hiding that they are so quick to cry about Josh's crimes being uncovered. The fact that they think this is just your avg. sin speaks volumes.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Ah, so now we're comparing Jesus with child molesters ...

Exactly. And persecution means "people finding out and discussing information from an official source that you have admitted is true, calling out your holier-than-thou public television and lobbyist persona, and refusing to accept that your beliefs about what is moral are superior to theirs". Also, pulling episodes of your TV show = persecution. Because having your own TV show on TLC is absolutely a basic human right.

Yup. Totally the same as anything that ISIS is doing.

And yes, Ken is a bit unhinged. It's a TV show. Period. Innocent until proven guilty is the legal standard to be met in criminal cases, where the resources of the state are being used to potentially put you in jail. It is not the standard in civil cases, and it is certainly not the standard that the average private citizen uses in deciding what to watch on TV. "Hmm, this actor hasn't been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of assault. I guess I'll have to watch his program." No, it's not a criminal case, and it is not a "ministry". It's entertainment, TLC is a private company, and they make decisions based on what attracts viewers and advertising dollars.

Of course, Ken must have had the same outrage when TLC plugged the plug on All American Muslim, right? Didn't think so.

[FundieFarmer]

(/snip) I am beginning to wonder what all of these people are hiding that they are so quick to cry about Josh's crimes being uncovered. The fact that they think this is just your avg. sin speaks volumes.

Yep. That's my biggest concern. Especially when Lori said that past sins shouldn't be dredged up for Pastors. Um, no, Lori. And if you consider yourself to be a mentor, are you telling us your past sins shouldn't be dredged up?

Do I even want to know?

[Koala]

Lori Alexander:

It seems to me that they handled the situation as agressively as they felt they needed to since there hasn't been anything bad about Josh since. I think it's a shame that they've been kicked off the TV when they were one of the very few shows who only contributed good to our society, unlike most movies and shows.

It took 12 years for this to come out, Learning Lori, so *if* there is more it might take a minute or two for it to surface. Be patient. What is known usually isn't all there is to know in my experience.

On another note, sending your kid to hang out with a guy who remodels homes and running his crimes past a cop who's knee deep in child porn doesn't sound aggressive (<---see how I spelled that?) to me at all. It sounds like they were trying to cover their asses in case they were later found out. They needed something to hold up as proof that they "fixed" Josh.

I also believe they have harmed their daughters by pretending everything was hunky dory so they could make their millions. Oh, and for making them live with the person who molested them and pretend to be one big happy family, so idiots could blather on about how wholesome they are.

Pretending to be an upstanding family on tv does not contribute to the betterment of society. Don't be ridiculous. If anything they have harmed the gay/transgender communities by perpetuating the idea that they are all child molesters and sexual predators- LIKE JOSH IS.

Finally, please learn to use the damn spell check. The fact that you taught in public schools and can't even be bothered to look up a word really annoys me.

[Koala]

Ken Alexander:

And we have promises that Josh can bank upon.

"Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you." (I Peter 4:12-14).

"Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted." (Hebrews 12:3).

"If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you." (John 15:20)

I don't believe these verses mean what Ken thinks they mean. :?

Mindless Sheeple:

Thank you for such a great article on this.

When my 13 year old daughter first heard about this incident, she started praying for the family. An obvious case of Christian persecution. Yes, what he did was wrong. But everything he did after that was right, telling his parents, asking forgiveness, receiving counseling, and moving forward with guards on his heart in this area.

So pretty much anything goes as long as you do the "right thing" after? EVERYTHING Josh did after was to cover his own ass- tell before they tell. And it worked. He's lived a charmed life and his victims have been told to stuff their feelings because they don't have a right to them anyway, because JOSH!

And persecution?? No honey, it's consequences- of which there haven't been near enough.

[Koala]

Facebook reader:

I like your post and I really am so very tired of hearing about josh duggar but I have to say when you put yourself in the spot of being a celebrity you are held to a higher standard. He lied every time on the show when he talked about saving his first kiss for his wedding day and that is what upsets me most. On their very first dhow they should have been up front about what happened and then things would be different but they chose to ignore and lie about it. I feel for the entire family but don't think I will be watching anymore of the duggars.

Ken's response:

WOW Joann, there is a great big difference between inappropriate touching and having sexual intercourse. There is no lie about saving oneself for marriage here and you way wrong to think anything practically good can come from spilling the beans about what we did as 14 year olds. You have such unrealistic expectations ad ideals that you have for Josh or any person. Ken

See? Spilling the beans- the telling is the real crime.

And it's totally unrealistic to expect a person not to be a serial molester.

What an ass.

[OkToBeTakei]

Imagine what would happen if true Christians had large families again? That is the threat they hate most. To have 19 well-adjusted, mature believing young adults all having 5-10 kids of there own. In a generation this nation wold become dominated by Christians again.

A bit dramatic of my brain but I see 2xx mentioned ISIS ....insert any religion to replace the word Christian and it still sounds as stupidly deranged and dangerous as any other extreme religious propaganda.

Undramatically though. Do these people have any frame of reference other than the present? Their specific present at that.

History. It's a fascinating subject. It's also a useful tool to learn from mistakes of our predecessors. I would love to hear Ken's thoughts on how he would approach a good old Crusade of years gone by. He's very brave on the internet defending a Teeeeveee personality. I have a feeling his knowledge goes not much beyond bible.....and bible. Maybe a wee bit of Christians and in particular American Christians as saviours history.....beyond that not much. I do not pretend to be an expert or even particularly well read, what I do have is a well stretched mind that likes to be challenged and opened beyond my comfort zones or prejudice.

Tolpuddle Martyrs. Random. I hated history and that aspect pained my teenage mind :lol:

[ThisOlGirl]

To be such holy, upright Christians, Lori and Ken are involved with a host of sketchy people. Sunshine Mary, Cabinetman, and now Josh Duggar. Who's next guys? Maybe you can stop by the local prison on the way home from church and see if anyone there will have you...

Please. I'd rather hang out with jailbirds and ex-cons than hang out with the creepy Alexanders.