Jill Duggar Dillard, Derick Dillard, & Baby Israel - Part 2

[Denim Jumper]

I have a feeling that a very quiet storm is brewing amongst the Duggars, and if some of the older kids start to break away, it will be done quietly. Unless they have all been ordered t keep their comments to themselves for now, the silence from Ben and Derick is telling. It's one thing for leghumpers to give JB&M and Josh a pass... but I can't imagine a husband not seething with rage over someone hurting their wife, no matter how long ago or what ammends were allegedly made.

[Kristee]

I don't think this is an entirely fair characterization of Derick. I think he sought Jim Bob as a prayer partner because he was attracted to his lifestyle, and maybe he thought it would be neat if he could marry a Duggar daughter, but he and Jill actually have a lot in common in terms of interests, values, and life goals. They'd be a good match regardless.

Whilst my words may have been a bit harsh, I stand by the sentiment of my post. Derick had to have known what the Duggars were all about when he decided to contact Jim Bob as a "prayer partner". What type of a man finds their patriarchal beliefs even slightly acceptable and wants to be a part of it. What type of a man is willing to embrace the ideas about girls and woman being nothing more than subservient, breeders who are always cheerful and always willing to spread their legs whenever their man wants. What type of a man wants to have ultimate authority over his wife and children. I guess in essence, I am questioning Derick's character and motivations in wanting to even be a part of this side-show.

[singsingsing]

Is it just me or is Ben now not following Derick on Instagram? Can anyone else confirm this?

Is it really necessary to post this in every single thread?

[Jessa's Side Eye]

Is it really necessary to post this in every single thread?

I apologised for this in the main Josh thread and had said I had posted it in other threads as I wasn't sure it would be seen, considering how fast threads move.

I also have admitted to being mistaken. There is no need to be rude, like the other poster was in the main Josh thread.

[VelociRapture]

I am mostly a lurker and do not post much, but it seems like one day it is okay to speculate on people's lives and the next day it is unacceptable. Anyway.

About the girls - I think any sign of concern from the liberal world coming their way will be lost on them. If there is any hope of getting through to one, it will be the ones younger than Joy Anna.

If the show is cancelled, the molested girls will perceive it as the evil outer world taking their livelihood from them. It will be good that these people will not be able to use a TV show to promote their agenda anymore. But these older girls are absolutely LOST and will never, ever be 'freed'.

Michelle and Jim Bob are horrible parents.

When it comes to speculation, whether or not people consider it acceptable depends on a few things:

1. Is there evidence to back up the claim? Even a little evidence is better than none.

2. Is it a personal attack? For instance, saying that Jill is using the sling incorrectly and could wind up hurting Israel isn't a personal attack. Claiming that she obviously is doing it on purpose because she has PPD is a personal attack. The first is acceptable - the second is not.

3. Is it a useful comment or not? Speculating endlessly about how Jessa's nail color indicates she has a ton of inner rage waiting to be unleashed on some poor unsuspecting soul (usually her husband) is not useful for the conversation. Speculating about whether or not Jessa and Ben paid for their own wedding or Honeymoon - when neither appear to have employment beyond TLC or Boob - is useful.

It really just comes down to those criteria. Your comment (that I quoted) was a good example of speculation because it isn't ridiculously detailed, it is being based off things we know for a fact about the family, and it didn't personally attack anyone (other than the parents - and lets face it, they kind of deserve it).

[singsingsing]

Also, there's a difference between pointing out that you think it's silly or fruitless to speculate about something and actually telling people that they're 'not allowed' to do it.

[mpheels]

You also need to be prepared for responses calling speculation silly, baseless, or illogical. We all have different thought processes. What makes sense to you may not make sense to others. This being an open conversation, others can and will say when a train of thorugh doesn't pass the sniff test.

[SassyPants]

Also, there's a difference between pointing out that you think it's silly or fruitless to speculate about something and actually telling people that they're 'not allowed' to do it.

I think this is an interesting comment based on the last few weeks on this board and the appearance of the red box of reminders/prompts at the top of the page.

[singsingsing]

I think this is an interesting comment based on the last few weeks on this board and the appearance of the red box of reminders/prompts at the top of the page.

What does that have to do with my comment? I'm not an admin or a mod. Obviously if an admin is telling you in an official capacity that you can't do something, it's a different story.

[twinmama]

He's a newborn, newborns in my opinion, tend to look a bit like large red potatoes for the first three months or so. So, no, I'd say he actually looks a little less potatoey than most newborns I've seen.

Potatoes are smooth, newborns look like wrinkly walnuts!

[Snarkle Motion]

Well you missed Jill. She's apparently a spoilt princess who can't take care of her own baby and tried to kill him with her birth choices!!!!!!

This thread has at least moved on from that ......somewhat :lol:

So maybe this is inappropriate but I thought that baby Israel's hands looked oddly disproportionate in a few pictures. Maybe this is normal for newborns? But I remember reading a while ago someone suggesting it was possible that Derick has Marfan Syndrome or a similar disorder and was wondering if that is possible for baby Izzy?

I hope I'm breaking the links right.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/1c3f3c1312ca84f6d790c58825b370bc/tumblr_no0phhoNDv1tkvud8o2_1280.jpg

http://jillandderickdillard.tumblr.com/image/118241927482

[withaj]

So maybe this is inappropriate but I thought that baby Israel's hands looked oddly disproportionate in a few pictures. Maybe this is normal for newborns? But I remember reading a while ago someone suggesting it was possible that Derick has Marfan Syndrome or a similar disorder and was wondering if that is possible for baby Izzy?

I hope I'm breaking the links right.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/1c3f3c1312ca ... 2_1280.jpg

http://jillandderickdillard.tumblr.com/ ... 8241927482

Yeah, he's a bruiser with big hands, but I do think speculation about Marfan's is a bit absurd at this point. Regardless, it was brought up multiple times back along the way in the Dilly threads, as I recall.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Potatoes are smooth, newborns look like wrinkly walnuts!

:lol: true

[gustava]

The problem is that I don’t think Jill and Jessa believe that there is anything they need to recover from. They believe in the lifestyle they were raised in and that the molestation is a thing of the past because Jesus has healed Josh. I wouldn’t doubt that Jill and Jessa are now shocked by how the public has responded to the reports of molestation. They probably had no idea that most people would think that finding Jesus and being forgiven is not enough for a child molester. They likely do not understand why people are outraged because they were raised to sweep things like this under the rug. I also doubt that they were aware that the blame lies solely on the abuser and not on the victims. They may actually think people are overreacting. I don’t think they want to face the fact that not only did Josh commit wrongs but their parents as well. It would be a big blow to acknowledge that your “perfect†parents made a bad situation worse. Or that the whole lifestyle idiotic on every level. I think that would be devastating, especially for someone as sensitive as Jill. I also don’t want to see a show about their “recovery†because there is no recovery in front of a camera.

If the girls didn't think anything was wrong, then why tell their dad?

[gustava]

I'm imagining Moochelle holding a giant potato like a baby. The potato baby is swaddled in a blanket and has a pacifier.

No, baby is hidden under a Brestfriend.

[Mama Mia]

If the girls didn't think anything was wrong, then why tell their dad?

I don't think anything I've seen has implied that they - meaning the whole family - didn't think it was wrong at the time it happened. Just that the girls may not be as devestated by it now, as people expect them to be. Which, as other posters have pointed out, is very odd given their entire family constantly talking about the evils of premarital sexual contact of even the mildest sort. So it would be very strange if they all just saw it as no big deal that's all okay now.

On the other hand there is kind of a creepy " fate worse than death" level of suffering some commenters seem to be expecting them to all feel. If anyone was acknowledging they were actual individuals they would have to realize that the four of them probably have very different reactions and ways of processing and dealing with bad things.

[drivingmishcrazy]

No, baby is hidden under a Brestfriend.

Uh oh don't give Mullet any ideas, guys!

[jacduggar]

I don't think anything I've seen has implied that they - meaning the whole family - didn't think it was wrong at the time it happened. Just that the girls may not be as devestated by it now, as people expect them to be. Which, as other posters have pointed out, is very odd given their entire family constantly talking about the evils of premarital sexual contact of even the mildest sort. So it would be very strange if they all just saw it as no big deal that's all okay now.

On the other hand there is kind of a creepy " fate worse than death" level of suffering some commenters seem to be expecting them to all feel. If anyone was acknowledging they were actual individuals they would have to realize that the four of them probably have very different reactions and ways of processing and dealing with bad things.

I agree with you, but have struggled to articulate it. So thanks. I'm sure they all handled it differently, but these young women are groomed to believe it's all forgiven and God has made it right by everyone. There's a very good chance that they, with all of their heart and soul, believe that they are fully healed. Hell, they probably have "counseled" with JB and M and feel they are totally redeemed and we're still pure at marriage. I realize how crazy and creepy that sounds, but just barely reading and scratching the surface on their beliefs and I would have no doubt that they don't hold resentment over it. The rest of the free known world is completely outraged because we know that what happened is screwed up and wrong, but they live by a very different doctrine. It's not right and I've said from the start that they deserve proper help, but the whole world is thinking their sitting around being miserable martyrs when they very well could feel just fine and be living their lives pretty normal. It's very classic of cult behavior, most people in cults live their lives very washed and really believe at their core that they're happy. It isn't until years later and coming into society that they start to feel everything they suppress.

Excuse typos, fat fingers on a small phone.

[Mama Mia]

I agree with you, but have struggled to articulate it. So thanks. I'm sure they all handled it differently, but these young women are groomed to believe it's all forgiven and God has made it right by everyone. There's a very good chance that they, with all of their heart and soul, believe that they are fully healed. Hell, they probably have "counseled" with JB and M and feel they are totally redeemed and we're still pure at marriage. I realize how crazy and creepy that sounds, but just barely reading and scratching the surface on their beliefs and I would have no doubt that they don't hold resentment over it. The rest of the free known world is completely outraged because we know that what happened is screwed up and wrong, but they live by a very different doctrine. It's not right and I've said from the start that they deserve proper help, but the whole world is thinking their sitting around being miserable martyrs when they very well could feel just fine and be living their lives pretty normal. It's very classic of cult behavior, most people in cults live their lives very washed and really believe at their core that they're happy. It isn't until years later and coming into society that they start to feel everything they suppress.

Excuse typos, fat fingers on a small phone.

I agree it is all very hard to articulate. I really, really hope they felt they were " pure" at their weddings! Because they were. And that's what's creeping me out about a lot of the extreme reactions that I've read - some here, some on- line - I can't keep track. --- It really seems some people won't be happy unless they are living every day obsessed with this one experience. Like whether they had been inappropriately touched was their defining moment. And it just comes across as so, so misogynistic to me. I understand that sexual abuse is horrific and can have life long consequences - but the impact varies greatly depending on a huge number of variables -- and feeling that is the most important thing about yourself is just so so sad. But it seems to be what some commenters actually want.

[TeaELSee]

Yes, let's now diagnose Derick Dillard with aspergers because he 'seems clueless and awkward sometimes'. While we're at it, have we decided if Josh is a pedophile, Jim Bob is a sociopath, Michelle has NPD, Jana is clinically depressed and Jinger has anorexia? Oh yeah, and Josie is developmentally delayed, and Jackson probably has ADHD. Can some of you other mental health professionals diagnose the rest? We wouldn't want to leave anyone out, now.

I was just thinking out loud. I specified that it was a random thought. I certainly was not diagnosing him.

He just seems super gullible, no idea why.

Chill.

[sense and nonsense]

I was just thinking out loud. I specified that it was a random thought. I certainly was not diagnosing him.

He just seems super gullible, no idea why.

Chill.

How is being gullible related to Aspergers?

You can't voice out silly and judgemental thoughts on a public message board and not expect a response...

Seriously, just freaking Google it once before you post, you just end up sounding rude..

[Nic]

Yes, let's now diagnose Derick Dillard with aspergers because he 'seems clueless and awkward sometimes'. While we're at it, have we decided if Josh is a pedophile, Jim Bob is a sociopath, Michelle has NPD, Jana is clinically depressed and Jinger has anorexia? Oh yeah, and Josie is developmentally delayed, and Jackson probably has ADHD. Can some of you other mental health professionals diagnose the rest? We wouldn't want to leave anyone out, now.

Jessa is a narcissist. Jill is co-dependent. Michelle's childhood friend is an enabler. Bubba the dog has fleas.

[TeaELSee]

How is being gullible related to Aspergers?

You can't voice out silly and judgemental thoughts on a public message board and not expect a response...

Seriously, just freaking Google it once before you post, you just end up sounding rude..

I have 2 sons with Aspergers, I didn't pull my thoughts out of my ass.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Jessa is a narcissist. Jill is co-dependent. Michelle's childhood friend is an enabler. Bubba the dog has fleas.

Well, to be fair, Bubba probably did actually have fleas at some point... :lol:

[VelociRapture]

Well, to be fair, Bubba probably did actually have fleas at some point... :lol:

#freebubba #saveorangecat 8-)