According to Jessa Duggar, atheists don't exist

[Emme]

I DON'T EXIST!

*poofs into nothingness*

Oh, no, wait. Still here. Jessa is so ignorant it's almost kinda cute :3

Lol, thankfully atheists aren't tinkerbell. We exist whether or not Bin and Jessa believe in us!

[halcionne]

Lol, thankfully atheists aren't tinkerbell. We exist whether or not Bin and Jessa believe in us!

Hey I just remembered this guy is speaking at a conference in Denver next month. Duggars are going too. I wonder if there's a mutual promotion agreement or something. If so, well played, Dr. Jason Lisle, well played.

[Fascinated]

He's called 'doctor' because he says he has a Ph.D. I would love to vet his credentials, but I don't know how--everything google says about him is pretty much from fundie sources, or fundie naysayers, hehe. Here's his bio from icr.org:

Ok, I am totally confused. This guy's credentials! WTF? Is he brilliant? Is it bullshit? I am beside myself here. He sounds like he should be sharing a podium with Richard Dawkins, not Bin Seewald!!!! What the fuck? Someone explain this to me, please!!!!

[halcionne]

Ok, I am totally confused. This guy's credentials! WTF? Is he brilliant? Is it bullshit? I am beside myself here. He sounds like he should be sharing a podium with Richard Dawkins, not Bin Seewald!!!! What the fuck? Someone explain this to me, please!!!!

I know, right???? Where are the astrophysicists of Free Jinger to break this down for us? :think:

[doggie]

Logic and Christianity can't be used together unless not is users in the sentence. How is creationism logical? How is everything happening with a snap of gods fingers logical? Is God a witch on TV? Sorry but the story reflects a primitive people get overall it. Explain 9000 year old tree fossil trees. A 150,000 year's old plant organisim that has shed pollin in I've for all those years.

[TrisPrior]

He's called 'doctor' because he says he has a Ph.D. I would love to vet his credentials, but I don't know how--everything google says about him is pretty much from fundie sources, or fundie naysayers, hehe. Here's his bio from icr.org:

It would be interesting to find someone who was working on their degree at the same time he was working on his Masters and PhD to hear more about what he was like during those years. As I am currently working on my PhD - the fact that someone like this (who continues to disregard the scientific process and scientific fact) can use his degree to influence others to ignore science is so frustrating. People like him are the reason others don't like the idea of "evolution" or think it only means that "we came from monkeys". :angry-banghead: The concept of evolution and religion are entirely separate.

I tried searching for his scientific publications (I'm assuming he must have had some with his degrees and study) - but gave up quickly after keep being inundated with his creationist work. Blah. Maybe with a glass of wine later I'll look into this.

[Fascinated]

I know, right???? Where are the astrophysicists of Free Jinger to break this down for us? :think:

Where are they, indeed! I do not understand this. I hope when our FJ astrophysicists (do we have some?) return from whatever they are doing tonight they weigh in because I'm losing it, here. This guy is obviously very intelligent and highly educated. Oh my god. Is it just me? Oh, it's in the bible so there's your proof. I hope someone can help me understand because I do not. With these credentials???????? :pull-hair:

[twinmama]

I agree, for the most part it doesn't affect my daily life. But when I watch something like this video it really gets my blood boiling. How pompous to make such claims. As an atheist I believe that they are completely and utterly deluded. I will never understand why so many people, many of whom are highly intelligent and well educated, believe in god. It's hard to discuss without sounding insulting, though, (and I don't wish to insult anyone here), so I say little about it. But I don't get it. I really just don't get it.

I totally agree. My own parents are Catholics (although pretty much completely nonpracticing at this point). They believe in God, but are prochoice, pro birth control, pro comprehensive sex ed, for marriage equality... other than they were raised catholic I have no idea why they are. But whatever. They are two of the smartest people I know, but they believe in god. I'm pretty sure I have been an atheist since I was 8 or so because none of the god stuff EVER made sense to me. Got in plenty of trouble for asking questions like "you REALLY believe someone walked on water? because that IS NOT POSSIBLE" and heard many answers like "you have faith, it doesn't have to make sense" (which now that I think about it, is totally scary!).

I'll never understand why they believe in that stuff, but if they need it, who am I to say they can't have it? At least they don't use it to forbid people equal rights, or make me feel like less than for not believing. They use it for themselves, to comfort in times of pain and fear.

[twinmama]

I remember when my husband and I came out as atheists to his evangelical family. For years we had danced around the topic because we didn't want to hurt his mom and dad but finally one Christmas they pushed us too far and we admitted we are both atheists. I didn't want to go overboard on the explanations because frankly his family members are uneducated, simple people whose lives revolve around their church, so I left it at, "There have been too many different cultures each with different answers to humanity's place in the universe. I don't believe anyone has all the answers." Their immediate response (including the 9 year old nephew) was to chime together "We do!" I felt so sorry for them. They are so uneducated, so ill informed that they don't have a clue as to how ignorant they are. Which is how I feel about Bin and Jessa. I pity them.

That has always been one of my sticking points with religion. I just can't be arrogant enough to think I have the answers and Bob Muslim and Tom Jew are wrong. Why on earth would *I* of all people get it right?

[Fascinated]

I totally agree. My own parents are Catholics (although pretty much completely nonpracticing at this point). They believe in God, but are prochoice, pro birth control, pro comprehensive sex ed, for marriage equality... other than they were raised catholic I have no idea why they are. But whatever. They are two of the smartest people I know, but they believe in god. I'm pretty sure I have been an atheist since I was 8 or so because none of the god stuff EVER made sense to me. Got in plenty of trouble for asking questions like "you REALLY believe someone walked on water? because that IS NOT POSSIBLE" and heard many answers like "you have believe, it doesn't have to make sense" (which now that I think about it, is totally scary!).

I'll never understand why they believe in that stuff, but if they need it, who am I to say they can't have it? At least they don't use it to forbid people equal rights, or make me feel like less than for not believing. They use it for themselves, to comfort in times of pain and fear.

In my opinion, the comfort people receive from their religion is the ONLY benefit I can see. I don't have that. I said in a thread in what seems like eons ago that when we lost our second child I did not have any faith to comfort me. I didn't think he was in heaven but it would be very comforting to think we would see him again. But I don't believe that. So, if that helps people, great. Other than that I see nothing beneficial at all. It's a crutch (IMO).

[servants-heart]

I totally agree. My own parents are Catholics (although pretty much completely nonpracticing at this point). They believe in God, but are prochoice, pro birth control, pro comprehensive sex ed, for marriage equality... other than they were raised catholic I have no idea why they are. But whatever. They are two of the smartest people I know, but they believe in god. I'm pretty sure I have been an atheist since I was 8 or so because none of the god stuff EVER made sense to me. Got in plenty of trouble for asking questions like "you REALLY believe someone walked on water? because that IS NOT POSSIBLE" and heard many answers like "you have believe, it doesn't have to make sense" (which now that I think about it, is totally scary!).

I'll never understand why they believe in that stuff, but if they need it, who am I to say they can't have it? At least they don't use it to forbid people equal rights, or make me feel like less than for not believing. They use it for themselves, to comfort in times of pain and fear.

This is the scariest thing about the Duggars (and their ilk) and the ever-growing platform they have – forcing their faith and values onto everyone else. I'm not from the US, so I have a fair bit of difficulty grasping the extent that Christianity plays (or appears to play) in mainstream life over there. I'm amazed and a bit terrified that there seems to be so many people like Smuggar who have such public, anti-human rights voices. I'm guessing there are probably a few mainstream Christians who share similar views to Bin and Jessa about atheists? Maybe not as extreme, but atheists are not respected nonetheless? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but the political/public crusade that these fundie types engage in is just unbelievable to me.

Can someone tell me if these views are generally accepted in American society? Where I'm from, those in parliament, for example, who espouse such extreme views on things like abortion, marriage etc etc are generally ridiculed in the media and by mainstream society. There are definitely those in our parliament (like our Prime Minister) who hold those views, but he'd never try to express them now that he's in because he'd be absolutely slaughtered. Then again, we don't have nearly the level of Christianity that America seems to have.

Sorry if that was a bit off topic. It just fascinates me that the beliefs of people like the Duggars seem to be so accepted in large parts of American society.

[Fascinated]

This is the scariest thing about the Duggars (and their ilk) and the ever-growing platform they have – forcing their faith and values onto everyone else. I'm not from the US, so I have a fair bit of difficulty grasping the extent that Christianity plays (or appears to play) in mainstream life over there. I'm amazed and a bit terrified that there seems to be so many people like Smuggar who have such public, anti-human rights voices. I'm guessing there are probably a few mainstream Christians who share similar views to Bin and Jessa about atheists? Maybe not as extreme, but atheists are not respected nonetheless? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but the political/public crusade that these fundie types engage in is just unbelievable to me.

Can someone tell me if these views are generally accepted in American society? Where I'm from, those in parliament, for example, who espouse such extreme views on things like abortion, marriage etc etc are generally ridiculed in the media and by mainstream society. There are definitely those in our parliament (like our Prime Minister) who hold those views, but he'd never try to express them now that he's in because he'd be absolutely slaughtered. Then again, we don't have nearly the level of Christianity that America seems to have.

Sorry if that was a bit off topic. It just fascinates me that the beliefs of people like the Duggars seem to be so accepted in large parts of American society.

I'm not American either but I believe there have been polls that indicate that an atheist would be the absolute last person to be elected president. To say that atheists aren't respected is an understatement.

[persephonepomegranate]

Read a quote recently. A man was discussing charity with his Rabbi. The Rabbi informed him that when he did charitable works, he should do they 'as an atheist'. Meaning, that an atheist does not do charity because they feel they are commanded by god to do so. Or because they expect some heavenly reward, but because they feel it is the right thing to do.

Looked, but can't find the page again.

Thats the quote I read! Thanks.

[lascuba]

In my opinion, the comfort people receive from their religion is the ONLY benefit I can see. I don't have that. I said in a thread in what seems like eons ago that when we lost our second child I did not have any faith to comfort me. I didn't think he was in heaven but it would be very comforting to think we would see him again. But I don't believe that. So, if that helps people, great. Other than that I see nothing beneficial at all. It's a crutch (IMO).

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I think the comfort factor is huge. I never felt it. Even when I believed in god it never did anything for me. There was no comfortable feeling that no matter what's happening, there's a greater power looking out for me. It just was what it was--everyone says there's a god so there must be god. It was really easy for me to become an atheist

It's so weird for me, when I mention I'm an atheist. I don't consider a it a part of my identity exactly, and I'm lucky enough to live in the Northeast and work in the medical/scientific field, so it's not an issue that ever really comes up. But when it does come up, and I mention I'm an atheist, people are always shocked. My family is culturally Catholic, pretty much no one goes to Church except for Easter and my parents gave up on that bit when I was a teen and we were all on the same page about driving around forever to find parking only to end up in a Church with standing room only. Most of my relatives think religions are useless and that religious people are at best gullible and at worst, really fucking annoying. But I say I'm an atheist and it's the most shocking thing to them. Like, they're perfectly happy to cop to being major sinners in every religion's eyes but oh, no, you still have to believe in a higher power.

[Fascinated]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I think the comfort factor is huge. I never felt it. Even when I believed in god it never did anything for me. There was no comfortable feeling that no matter what's happening, there's a greater power looking out for me. It just was what it was--everyone says there's a god so there must be god. It was really easy for me to become an atheist

It's so weird for me, when I mention I'm an atheist. I don't consider a it a part of my identity exactly, and I'm lucky enough to live in the Northeast and work in the medical/scientific field, so it's not an issue that ever really comes up. But when it does come up, and I mention I'm an atheist, people are always shocked. My family is culturally Catholic, pretty much no one goes to Church except for Easter and my parents gave up on that bit when I was a teen and we were all on the same page about driving around forever to find parking only to end up in a Church with standing room only. Most of my relatives think religions are useless and that religious people are at best gullible and at worst, really fucking annoying. But I say I'm an atheist and it's the most shocking thing to them. Like, they're perfectly happy to cop to being major sinners in every religion's eyes but oh, no, you still have to believe in a higher power.

EXACTLY! Other than my own family I don't know a single person who doesn't believe in god, or, at least say they do. And none of them goes to church or does anything that would indicate they have any religion whatsoever. But, yes, you tell them you're atheist and they just can't believe it. Do people like this just take the easy route maybe? Obviously religion isn't a big part of their lives. But they can't take that leap. I don't know. It's so messed up. I wish we could obliterate religion completely. I really do. If we had rid the world of it say, 1000 years ago, I wonder where we'd be now? It truly is the greatest con ever (IMHO!).

[SassyPants]

I have come to call it the "faith" gene, and it skipped my DNA.

I have a really close friend who is very, very religious. We were both raised RC but she is now an EC. She walks the walk.

I need tangibles. Sister Elizabeth in 3rd grade could never answer my questions, except for saying I needed to have faith. It was like telling a blind man to just look harder.

[Boogalou]

I don't know if we established if this guy's credentials are legitimate but he at least wrote a thesis for a PhD. Here's the link: http://encore.colorado.edu/iii/encore/r ... ite=cobalt

Is 200 pages short for a PhD thesis??

[Fascinated]

I don't know if we established if this guy's credentials are legitimate but he at least wrote a thesis for a PhD. Here's the link: http://encore.colorado.edu/iii/encore/r ... ite=cobalt

Is 200 pages short for a PhD thesis??

Number one thought: how did you find this? Amazing.

Number two thought: damnit if this doesn't look legit. It's totally confounding. I'm going to have nightmares about this guy tonight. I do not care for the man.

[halcionne]

I don't know if we established if this guy's credentials are legitimate but he at least wrote a thesis for a PhD. Here's the link: http://encore.colorado.edu/iii/encore/r ... ite=cobalt

Is 200 pages short for a PhD thesis??

I don't know, but this counts as proof that he was at CU Boulder, which is more than I could come up with.

:clap:

[public-school-teecher]

My IQ dropped by simply reading the title.

[J'Lurker]

A Ph.D means he's studious and academically smart... perhaps he was lacking the social skills to participate in the real world without religion?

Also, we can't forget that religion can provide more than comfort: it's an excellent means of controlling a whole population.

[Swamptribe]

Thought y'all might find this interesting.

http://brucegerencser.net/2015/05/jason ... n-atheist/

Lisle uses a huge logical fallacy....circular logic. Pretty bad for somebody supposedly so well versed in using logic.

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2014/09 ... n-lis.html

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jason_Lisle

While he does have a legit degree, it seems Lisle has abandoned science.

[Swamptribe]

Oh well, he commits a lot of logical fallacies...

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[morri]

Yes because a book says so it is true all people even buddhist taoist naturalists are all pastafarians because the fsm said so. I woll never understand how chrustians think atheists if they exist are all evil minded because we dont grow up having to obey to an almighty ruler. Maybe instead of physics they should srudy anthropolgy first.

[morri]

At my school I only knew only three people that were religious one a RC and the other baptists of some sort. But then it is not a popular admidsion to make unless you arerather religious