Bengi graduated from collage. Jessa tweeted.

[apandaaries]

I've always wanted to take an online class just to see what it's like, but I've never had the opportunity to. Most of my classes are lab classes these days, and those aren't usually offered online for obvious reasons. I tried to take a summer calculus class online, but it filled up within a split second.

I really love the idea of online classes, but I've mainly heard about the problems involved in trying to implement/shepherd/lead such a class. I've, quite sadly, never heard about students wildly loving and participating in an online class. Mainly I've heard about online scuffles and people trying to fulfill requirements ASAP.

That doesn't mean that learning online is futile/useless, nor that it's not worth pursuing. Just that it's hard. And trying to fulfill lab requirements makes it even harder. :D

[lizbeth]

I really love the idea of online classes, but I've mainly heard about the problems involved in trying to implement/shepherd/lead such a class. I've, quite sadly, never heard about students wildly loving and participating in an online class. Mainly I've heard about online scuffles and people trying to fulfill requirements ASAP.

That doesn't mean that learning online is futile/useless, nor that it's not worth pursuing. Just that it's hard. And trying to fulfill lab requirements makes it even harder. :D

That's really interesting! I never really thought about the potential for those types of challenges. My thinking has largely just centered around that there's no professor around to prevent cheating from taking place (I know some classes require students to film themselves working, but I don't think that's common). I would imagine it would be pretty difficult to get an online class excited about the opportunity to pursue the material without engaging the students in person; I could totally see that.

[Imagine20]

I don't think anyone looks down on an Associates degree, unless the person with that degree acts as if it's equal to a BA/BS or a graduate level degree. I've got a JD and i worked hard for it. An AA is not equal to higher degrees and shouldn't be compared to them. Another issue is that (and many of us found this with our undergrad degrees) many of them mean nothing in the job market so we had to get graduate degrees. We've been where Ben is. He should keep going to school so long as it's on the Duggars dime! Some people get lucky and make a great career with an AA, but many don't.

If 2 years was all a person wanted to spend in school, tech school is the way to go. I've got a cousin with a tech degree and he works on planes and makes great money. Another is a welder who fabricates for a local manufacturing plant: he has man toys, built a home mortgage free and is set for life at 45. He has a high school diploma. I have another cousin who's a plumber (he just apprenticed with my uncle, no school), has all the man toys a guy would want, and he's his own boss.

[Kira]

That's totally Tabitha. I had my doubts in the profile shot behind Jackson, but entering the auditorium it's really clear.

ETA: Where is Pickles getting these pics? She really should be giving credit.

Did you see the photo of Tabitha(or girl who looks like Tabitha) with the camera crew? I think this needs it's own thread.

[halcionne]

Did you see the photo of Tabitha(or girl who looks like Tabitha) with the camera crew? I think this needs it's own thread.

I was just commenting in the Duggar General thread, but I think a new thread is a good idea. I'll make one.

[SassyPants]

I don't think anyone looks down on an Associates degree, unless the person with that degree acts as if it's equal to a BA/BS or a graduate level degree. I've got a JD and i worked hard for it. An AA is not equal to higher degrees and shouldn't be compared to them. Another issue is that (and many of us found this with our undergrad degrees) many of them mean nothing in the job market so we had to get graduate degrees. We've been where Ben is. He should keep going to school so long as it's on the Duggars dime! Some people get lucky and make a great career with an AA, but many don't.

If 2 years was all a person wanted to spend in school, tech school is the way to go. I've got a cousin with a tech degree and he works on planes and makes great money. Another is a welder who fabricates for a local manufacturing plant: he has man toys, built a home mortgage free and is set for life at 45. He has a high school diploma. I have another cousin who's a plumber (he just apprenticed with my uncle, no school), has all the man toys a guy would want, and he's his own boss.

The problem that I see with the 2nd generation Duggars who are considered adults, aside from Derick, is that they lack a work ethic because they've never watched their own parents walk the day in day and out, year after year, decade after decade, work life. Everyone has the potential to succeed, but success, for almost all people, requires very hard, sustained effort. I'm not sure the Duggars are prepared for that life. Jill appears to not even want that life for her husband. It's too bad because GM Duggar, JB and M pre-Gothard, appeared to be very hard workers. Unfortunately, their kids have not have the chance to develop the tenacity required to succeed.

[Arrowoftruth]

I don't think anyone looks down on an Associates degree, unless the person with that degree acts as if it's equal to a BA/BS or a graduate level degree. I've got a JD and i worked hard for it. An AA is not equal to higher degrees and shouldn't be compared to them. Another issue is that (and many of us found this with our undergrad degrees) many of them mean nothing in the job market so we had to get graduate degrees. We've been where Ben is. He should keep going to school so long as it's on the Duggars dime! Some people get lucky and make a great career with an AA, but many don't.

If 2 years was all a person wanted to spend in school, tech school is the way to go. I've got a cousin with a tech degree and he works on planes and makes great money. Another is a welder who fabricates for a local manufacturing plant: he has man toys, built a home mortgage free and is set for life at 45. He has a high school diploma. I have another cousin who's a plumber (he just apprenticed with my uncle, no school), has all the man toys a guy would want, and he's his own boss.

What part of the country does your cousin live in if you don't mind me asking? Google is saying the average salary for welding is a bit above $36000

[louisa05]

That's really interesting! I never really thought about the potential for those types of challenges. My thinking has largely just centered around that there's no professor around to prevent cheating from taking place (I know some classes require students to film themselves working, but I don't think that's common). I would imagine it would be pretty difficult to get an online class excited about the opportunity to pursue the material without engaging the students in person; I could totally see that.

My unfinished master's degree is an online program. I have had to take some exams with a proctor. Basically, I go to the public library and the library director monitors me while I do the exam. She gives me the essay questions, makes sure I do not set wi-fi access and that someone can see my screen easily. When I finish with the essays, she witnesses while I email them to her and she sends them to the professor. My comps will be done that exact same way with her also monitoring break times while I take them.

The opportunity to cheat on papers and other assignments is, frankly, exactly the same as with any in person class.

The amount of engagement is totally dependent on how the instructor sets up the class. Something that is also true in a traditional classroom.

All things considered, I think online classes are harder. You are basically on your own. It is difficult to get help or talk through problems. Many courses have felt like independent studies lacking even input from the instructor. You are totally responsible for your own learning and often even lack very many concrete due dates, so you have to have more self discipline to complete things.

[tralala]

A lot of RNs have just an associate degree. That's probably the best example of what an associate degree can get you..

I wouldn't be surprised if Associates Degree RNs disappear in the next ten years. Hospitals are pushing for BSN only nurses for magnet status. BSN is the way of he future for registered nurses. Camadian RNs from the last 15 years are all university educated.

[SassyPants]

I wouldn't be surprised if Associates Degree RNs disappear in the next ten years. Hospitals are pushing for BSN only nurses for magnet status. BSN is the way of he future for registered nurses. Camadian RNs from the last 15 years are all university educated.

I was a RN for 35 years before I retired last year, and I agree. Most of the nurses I worked with were BSNs.

For me, it was more expensive but faster to get into and through a 4 year program vs the 2 year...but only because I went to a Catholic University. Had I gone to a public university, it might have been a push. Nursing programs are so impacted.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I wonder where Ben's sister, Jes, is. She was not at the graduation. Someone posted on FB that they missed her this weekend. Then I noticed that she is no longer FB friends with her parents. But is with her siblings. Then I went to her instagram and she hasn't posted in two weeks. And she had been replying to some commenters. In one, she said "I don't believe in side hugs. At all." and in another someone pointed out that her parents and ben and jessa used to follow her but they dont anymore, and she said she had no idea why.

I guess that concludes your Jes Seewald update. I shall keep an eye on the situation.

But really, where could she have been this weekend to miss her brother's graduation? Could be nothing. Maybe she has the flu.

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

I wonder where Ben's sister, Jes, is. She was not at the graduation. Someone posted on FB that they missed her this weekend. Then I noticed that she is no longer FB friends with her parents. But is with her siblings. Then I went to her instagram and she hasn't posted in two weeks. And she had been replying to some commenters. In one, she said "I don't believe in side hugs. At all." and in another someone pointed out that her parents and ben and jessa used to follow her but they dont anymore, and she said she had no idea why.

I guess that concludes your Jes Seewald update. I shall keep an eye on the situation.

But really, where could she have been this weekend to miss her brother's graduation? Could be nothing. Maybe she has the flu.

Hmmmm.....wonder if she's the "bad seed" in the Seewald family a la Susanna Keller? Wasn't mentioned she has a job? Maybe she couldn't get the day off. Another guess is she doesn't like the cameras and knew TLC would be there. I mean she did get some backlash about her mission journal entry and probably hates the media circus her brother married into.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Here we have 84 public pics of the party, which was also his birthday party:

facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1667630276798227&type=1

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

The problem that I see with the 2nd generation Duggars who are considered adults, aside from Derick, is that they lack a work ethic because they've never watched their own parents walk the day in day and out, year after year, decade after decade, work life. Everyone has the potential to succeed, but success, for almost all people, requires very hard, sustained effort. I'm not sure the Duggars are prepared for that life. Jill appears to not even want that life for her husband. It's too bad because GM Duggar, JB and M pre-Gothard, appeared to be very hard workers. Unfortunately, their kids have not have the chance to develop the tenacity required to succeed.

I think John and Joseph have pretty good work ethics. Possibly Jana also but I'm not sure because one day she's a concert pianist and the next she's a midwife, so maybe she's just indecisive? Josh probably hated the car lot and prefers his job as a PR prop for FRC. :roll:

[FJismyheadship]

I noticed the same thing NALLY.

That's weird for Jes to not be friends with her family on Facebook, a d especially weird for her to not go to her brothers graduation. She and Ben were obviously close growing up.

There was a photo on Rebecca Seewalds Facebook of a birthday party for one of her nieces and Jes was tagged in it. Suddenly she isn't either. I'm gonna go take a look at Rebecca's page....

[Yoshimi]

Hmmmm.....wonder if she's the "bad seed" in the Seewald family a la Susanna Keller? Wasn't mentioned she has a job? Maybe she couldn't get the day off. Another guess is she doesn't like the cameras and knew TLC would be there. I mean she did get some backlash about her mission journal entry and probably hates the media circus her brother married into.

Yeah, this isn't anything new. Ben and his parents haven't followed Jes on social media for months now. While Jessa never followed her sister in law, I think. From what I remember (I don't really follow the Seewald gossips) , I believe there was a mild controversy over some ~scandalous~ photos (for Duggar/fundie standards) that Jes posted with her and a guy which she deleted. I don't know if that was related to anything but reports are that both Ben and his parents stopped following Jes shortly after that incident.

[Coco]

Yeah, this isn't anything new. Ben and his parents haven't followed Jes on social media for months now. While Jessa never followed her sister in law, I think. From what I remember (I don't really follow the Seewald gossips) , I believe there was a mild controversy over some ~scandalous~ photos (for Duggar/fundie standards) that Jes posted with her and a guy which she deleted. I don't know if that was related to anything but reports are that both Ben and his parents stopped following Jes shortly after that incident.

Scandalous by their standards? So that could be regular PDA. What a mess. What jerks, to basically cut his sister out of the loop like that. Social media is taking the place of phone calls these days. That's as bad as turning their backs on her. It's difficult to believe they would do something that petty over a silly lifestyle choice - having a boyfriend, so normal - especially given how their own PDA is almost PG-13 and too public.

/disclaimer i don't know details. Just based on the rumor, I'm disgusted that they would be so harsh toward family.

[clueliss]

The positive of the photos of the party was I saw no sign of everyone's 'favorite' party planner.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

What part of the country does your cousin live in if you don't mind me asking? Google is saying the average salary for welding is a bit above $36000

I was a welder in a car shop for a while. As a completely inexperienced person, I was making $15 an hour.

Your pay depends on:

-what kind of welding you do (MIG welders make substantially less than TIG welders, for example -- if I had been certified as a TIG welder, I could have been paid $30 an hour starting rate just for doing mufflers)

-where you work (a car shop will probably make less than someone at a plant, both will make less than someone at a construction site, that person will make less than someone who does underwater welding, etc)

-your experience level

-how complicated your job is

There are probably a lot of factors, but those for sure would be the most prevalent.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Honestly, with how much traveling kids in these families do without their parents, I wouldn't be surprised if she's just with another ATI/VF family. It wouldn't be unheard of for a child of one of these families to miss a sibling's milestone or other celebration.

It could also be that Jes attended the graduation but not the after party. Maybe she doesn't feel comfortable around the Duggars, or vice versa. Maybe she doesn't feel comfortable being on TV more than she has to be and knows the only way to avoid it is to keep away from Duggar related events.

[mpheels]

The positive of the photos of the party was I saw no sign of everyone's 'favorite' party planner.

Oh, I saw the paper plate and sharpie decorations as a clear sign that the Duggars had "professional" help with the party.

[VelociRapture]

Just to hop back to Bin's college experience stuff:

I graduated with a BA in English in 2010 from a public University in my state. I'm currently attending a Community College near my home in order to complete the prereqs I need to transfer into an Accelerated Career Entry Nursing program at a different public University (you end up with a BSN). So I feel I have some experience to say the following -

1. The courses at the Community College I attend aren't as rigorous or intense as the courses I took at the University. It really depends on the school and on the teachers though - there are plenty of four year Universities that aren't as rigorous as others. Additionally, since I already have my Bachelors degree its entirely possible that I may just be biased; students entering straight from High School probably have a much different experience than me.

2. Community College is an excellent option for students that are unsure what type of Bachelors Degree they want to pursue. They almost always have a lower price tag than a University does, which makes it much easier to get through the first two years. In my state, the public schools have an agreement in place that states all credits earned at the community college level (from an in-state institution) will be accepted at the University level (again, an in-state institution). I don't know if Arkansas does the same thing, but if so Bin could easily transfer his credits to a Bachelors program to further his education.

3. If Bin really wants to be a Preacher than a Poli Sci degree isn't necessarily the worst option for him. There can be a lot of politics and maneuvering involved behind the scenes. Additionally, I wouldn't be surprised if there were Gen Ed requirements that could help him as well - such as Communications courses (public speaking) and Humanities courses (like sociology, psychology, and philosophy).

4. I have taken two entirely online courses. One was in Statistics and the other was Lifespan Development (which was an accelerated 7 or 8 week course). I don't really enjoy online learning to be honest. Some people love them and they are great for those of us who work full-time. I'm glad that I don't really need to take more of those though - I prefer being on-campus.

I give Bin credit for completing his degree. He could have dropped out easily, but he didn't. He deserves recognition for that and it was nice to see that his family and in-laws turned out to support him (and it was nice to see Jessa is so proud of her husband for pursuing an education). I'd love to see him continue on to a Bachelor's program, but its up to him to decide if that's what is best for him and his family.

(And for the record: Ben is a college graduate in my opinion)

[jerkit]

They wear these robes and hats to cover their shame in front of their parents."

This made me legit snort. Well done.

[mpheels]

I keep coming back to the thought that Ben has some obvious talents - namely exercise/fitness and art/drawing. More power to him if he enjoyed his poli sci studies, but I can't help but think he is missing his calling. I think he would be a really good trainer, and possibly could even become a sports trainer or a physical therapist. I imagine there is a market in NW AR for a "modest" gym. If not, he could always open a small personal training gym (one client at a time, all male of course), and rope in some of the professionals that end up in the area due to Wal-Mart.

Re. online classes....

I do not like being a student in online classes - I find it hard to focus on recorded lectures without the human interaction (and expectations) of a classroom. In other words, the fact that I have to act like I'm paying attention in a classroom helps me actually pay attention. Online classes don't have that social expectation, and I end up learning to the test/assignment, rather than participating in the academic process.

On the other hand, I love being a teaching assistant for online classes. When I TA for on campus classes, the professor does all of the talking, and the TAs are relegated to grading and dealing with logistics. With online classes (at least at my school), the TAs get to do more actual teaching because the classes are too large for a single faculty member to handle all questions. This term, I was responsible for a group of 20 students, and I loved having Skype meetings to discuss their papers. It's pretty rewarding to grade the final product when I've seen it grow from a rough outline to a 20 page research paper in just 8 weeks (yes, 8 weeks - my school is crazy, and we have four 8-week terms instead of normal semesters or quarters).

[treehugger]

I was a welder in a car shop for a while. As a completely inexperienced person, I was making $15 an hour.

Your pay depends on:

-what kind of welding you do (MIG welders make substantially less than TIG welders, for example -- if I had been certified as a TIG welder, I could have been paid $30 an hour starting rate just for doing mufflers)

-where you work (a car shop will probably make less than someone at a plant, both will make less than someone at a construction site, that person will make less than someone who does underwater welding, etc)

-your experience level

-how complicated your job is

There are probably a lot of factors, but those for sure would be the most prevalent.

In Alberta, Canada (where I live) the average salary for a welder is $75,000. But skilled trades are in high demand here - carpenters make upwards of $70,000 a year as well.