Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors- Part 3

[bekkah]

Well, TLC might change the title to Josh Duggar: 5 kids and counting.

I honestly hope that everything will be alright with the older girls.

[Paisy]

Forgive me if this has already been posted but I find it to be a very interesting (4 year old) thread. It seems much of what was rumored was actually spot on.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=713

[anjulibai]

Josh was pretty smug and cocky during that interview "Digging in with the Duggars" the other night.

"Hey Ben, do you know what a master-burper is?"

"I predict more courtships..Jana, Jinger?"

And ironically, to Jessa: "You can't keep a secret".

A lot of his actions in light of this seem so sociopathic.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

I hope the AR government realizes what a horrible mistake has been made here. I hope that Josh's children are removed, and I hope that the remaining Duggarlings are removed the TTH.

[VelociRapture]

In regards to the article on Gawker:

We still can't be certain that Jill was one of the victims. Allie picked that portion up from an old thread on here - she even states it in the article. That source appears to have gotten a great deal of information correct, but we can't be completely sure.

I will say, thinking about it, I would be surprised if Jill wasn't one of the victims. She seems to be a trusting person and she is a people pleaser - not to mention that three other victims hadn't hit puberty yet and Jana would have been right in the middle of it. It's possible that Jana was the fourth sister, but the more I think about it the less I think she was. (Put under Spoiler just because I feel weird having this out there for anyone to read; having to click to see it makes me feel the tiniest bit better about speculating) :?

[Ralar]

I have major doubt over the mental sanity of anyone who would say that they did nothing wrong ...

I really hope someone make sure all those kids are ok ...

Someone like Mike Huckabee? http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/22/ ... vable.html

[Toothfairy]

So the Oprah offering the girls free educations was true. But JimChelle turned her down. And when Oprah went to ask the hard questions they refused to answer and wanted it edited out. It's it mean for me to say I wish JimChelle never had kids. These poor innocent children didn't deserve any of this.

someone wrote on that site someone posted a few pages back that the oldest wasn't touched and the second girl told. Plus everything FJ said about the Duggars being supported by the chruch and begging is true.

[apandaaries]

His statement reads like a psychopath. He stopped because he realized it would ruin HIS life. Their culture and lifestyle is all about sex. Everything is hypersexualized.

I really bet these people are baffled by the intensity of this backlash. Because to them, there are no shades of gray. Every sin is just as bad as one another and when you teach that it means watching porn is just as bad as molesting your sister. A teenager who out of curiosity fondles another girls boobs is just a teen being a teen right? Why is it different when its his sister? This is what happens when you place so little value on women. You have taught your children that women aren't people who are valued as much as you and deserve respect. No, they are lesser, subservient sex objects to be used for their man's desire. ETA: Also, women clean and cook.

I still suspect Josh was molested or that their is a much larger network of child porn/abuse going on with JB and ATI. But even if that were not the case the danger of this culture and its teaching is that men have a messed up view of women and sex. When you are taught that women are put on earth for the purpose of sexually pleasing and serving men and that men have no control over themselves and that basically every sin is just as bad as the next and that girls don't matter as much as boys its not hard to see why this happened. Josh is still a predator. If we found out about this when it first happened I'd feel more sympathy but he's an adult now and shows no remorse or that he has done anything to change his ways (aside from turning to Jesus and finding a wife to give him all the sex he wants). He should be repenting for this the rest of his life.

All of this reads to me like Josh is very much entitled and a product of his culture and environment -- but also that he's got serious issues of his own. I don't think it's mutually exclusive. He's an entitled shit who thought women were there for his pleasure and to serve him. That's what he's been taught, and his parents bent over backwards to cover for him.

I do wonder if he could have turned out better if he'd been raised in a more normal environment, had exposure to real schools and counseling, etc. But now we've got a guy who spent years in DC making money on anti-gay(et al) propaganda. I wonder if there are boys out there with Josh stories, too, but they're too ashamed to share. PURE SPECULATION, obviously. But often the ones who screech loudest against gay people have lots in their closet to hide.

That coached police report interview is also suspicious. I suspect there was more nighttime sneaking than reported/known. It's very unusual for someone to repeatedly attack and then just suddenly stop without counseling or work. "Giving it to Jesus" isn't sufficient.

I'm worried about their children. We don't have proof that he's doing anything, but we also dismissed all those earlier rumors which turned out to be true. I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer to err on the side of protecting children. I wish CPS would get involved somehow.

Finally, I think dirty guys can sense other dirty guys, or excuse their behavior if they know God is involved. JB knew that dirty cop who gave Josh a "stern talking to." I bet they knew the same church elders. I bet all the reports happened so much earlier because they knew the statute of limitations. JB lawyered up to protect his firstborn son and his brand, and let his daughters be abused and blamed for the abuse. Fuck him and JChelle to hell. Not back. Let them stay there.

[candygirl200413]

The more I digest this the more I realize how horrible I feel for basically judging attitudes of jessa/jill. I also feel extremely horrible when Jinger was at Jill's party (?--I feel like I'm getting the person's wrong.) and how much she needed her and her previous sins (which now makes me sick that she was basically saying that she caused the problems).

If a gofundme page existed and we were able to make sure the girls got all the $$ I would be more than happy to contribute!

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

You'd think Huckabee would want to distance himself from the Duggars. If I was a presidential candidate, I'd be doing just that.

I'm so done with the comments of people who are standing by Josh.

I'm not surprised. Welcome to rape culture.

[ClaraOswin]

All of this just makes me sick and very angry. I still can't find the words. Of course TLC knew about this. If Oprah did, they did. And to the crew that knows and stayed around all that time, WTF??? I guess if they can cover up Kate's abuse of her 8, they can sweep this under the rug too. I just don't get it. Aren't we supposed to protect kids from crap like this happening? JB and M are the worst parents ever. Can we even call them parents? They haven't done one freaking thing to be classified as a parent since they always make the older girls do everything. I really hope the show gets cancelled. I feel bad for the girls and Josh can go jump off a bridge for all I care. He's not sorry and his so called "counseling" is a joke.

Don't you know...all you need to to do to be a great parent is just pop out baby after baby and say that's what God wants. You don't ACTUALLY have to do any parenting except maybe the first 6 months. :roll:

[theinvisiblegirl]

So the Oprah offering the girls free educations was true. But JimChelle turned her down. And when Oprah went to ask the hard questions they refused to answer and wanted it edited out. It's it mean for me to say I wish JimChelle never had kids. These poor innocent children didn't deserve any of this.

someone wrote on that site someone posted a few pages back that the oldest wasn't touched and the second girl told. Plus everything FJ said about the Duggars being supported by the chruch and begging is true.

Of course they refused to allow the girls free education. They have no use for higher education, especially for a woman! I'm still surprised they let Joseph go off to Crown College, but that's a son so it must be different because it's a high and mighty son!

That's why I'm hesitant to want even the tiniest bit a tell-all special where the Duggars sit down with someone and talk about this because the hard questions will not be asked. Or they will be, and the Duggars will give a sub-par answer, and the interviewer won't push.

Tbh I'd love to hear Oprah's take on all of this. I want to hear what she has to say. She should go on CBS This Morning with Gayle and talk about her experience with the Duggars.

[nomoxian]

It sounds like an Oprah interview was in the works, someone who knew about Josh tipped off Harpo Productions, and a representative from that company (let's not even pretend it was Oprah herself) did the only responsible thing and went to authorities. It sounds like there isn't some taped interview where this information came out.

SO, assuming all that is true, there's a big thing that bothers me. Why was the interview with Oprah the thing that caused the tipster to finally do something? To me, that rings of jealousy (of the budding Duggar fame) rather than concern for the victims. The tipster could have told anyone else. Bring it to a news source if they were too concerned to go to the police. But they only took action when the Duggars were going to be interviewed? Ugh.

Either that or they were hoping Oprah could expose them and get the girls help, since the police weren't doing much about it.

[MisUndrstd]

A lot of his actions in light of this seem so sociopathic.

I have too said in an earlier thread I thought Josh was a sociopath and than someone added that he was very narcissistic. I used to work on a psych ward at a mental hospital so I'm familiar with the traits of people with these disorders. I went on disabled world.com and found some literature pertaining to the traits of a narcissistic sociopath. I believe it describes Josh, as we know him from TV, quite well.

"Some people who experience antisocial personality disorder also tend to suffer from another mental health disorder known as, 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder.' Those affected are often called, 'narcissistic sociopaths,' or, 'sociopaths with narcissistic traits,' and such a situation is highly dangerous because these people do not want to be helped. Such people often times tend to be highly manipulative and without any shred of remorse for their actions – even if their actions have harmed others who are close to them, or their own family members. There is nothing that can stop a narcissistic sociopath from achieving their goals. They make use of all of their charm, which is incredibly superficial, as well as intellect in order to attain their goals by any means possible. Such people often times believe they are above all and do not really care if anyone disagrees with them."

[formergothardite]

I am most certainly not saying any of this to stand up for the Duggars involved in this mess. Not at all. I simply wanted to point out that all molestation matters and is horrible. And I hope those who do it are held accountable no matter what.

You went on a rant about how no one here cared when liberals molested children and only cared when it was Josh Duggar. The fact is, this is a forum that focuses mainly on people like the Duggars, so natural the Duggars are going to get more attention, there was outrage expressed here when Lena Dunham wrote that, and it doesn't seem like anyone here seems to know who the other guy is. That was a post shaming people for having multiple threads expressing outrage at what the Duggars did.

But it is all crickets here. If we are all grossed out and offended my a child molesting Josh Duggar but don't comment about liberals who do the same thing then what does that make us? Hypocrites.

I bet that if you had started a thread about Terry Bean you would have seen plenty of outrage.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

These girls have had some of the hardest lives that one can havehe here in North America. Their parent's slaves, their siblings' mothers, their brother's toys, their cult's postergirls. The suffering these girls have endured, and how they've been able to carry on, is incredibly admirable. Their parents going on about "women need to be modest so they don't stir feelings in men that can't be righteously fulfilled" HAHAHA. Their modest frumpers totally protected them from their OWN BROTHER.

And to the speculation on whether Jill or Jana was spared --- it's unlikely that either of them were, despite what either may say. It also doesn't matter. Having this happen to your sister or yourself, it will still mess you up a bit.

over 24 hours and still not over it

[pega127]

Another horrible thought came to mind; knowing what their son did to his own sisters and another, how could they have welcomed overnight guests with plenty of young daughters stay in their homes? How do these families feel now (and some hosted all the Duggars, including Josh) ? Or did everyone in their circle know about Josh?

[Palimpsest]

Finally catching up to this situation, I think.

What Josh did was heinous, but I'm not surprised by the way the Duggar parents chose to handle it. I share the blame among the parents, the church "elders," the church members who were aware of the situation, and finally the State Police Officer (Officer Porn) who failed to file a timely report, that this was not properly handled from the beginning.

It is that classic Fundie misinterpretation of Matthew 18 yet again. I can think of half a dozen similar other sexual abuse cases off the top of my head that were similarly "dealt with" by the church often resulting in continued abuse and victim blaming.

Matthew 18:15-17 (KJV)

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Basically this form of perverted Christianity never, ever, wants to go to outside authorities. It always has to be handled within the church family. If the perpetrator confesses his sin, all is fine, and the victims are forced to confront the abuser and forgive him, while also being blamed for tempting him. It stinks.

I do want to criticize the person (or persons) who waited until the Duggars were about to appear on Oprah to spill the story. Why wait so long? By the time this was investigated properly, 3 years had passed and it seems that the investigators decided that there was not a current risk. I want to roll my eyes at that. It does seem from the report that the victims were referred to social services for counseling. I hope they got it.

TLC must have known about this after the Oprah incident. The utter hubris of TLC, the Duggar parents, and Josh himself, to keep filming the fake story of the perfect Christian family, and holding the Duggars up as an example to be followed is disgusting.

But this isn't just about the Duggars and Un-Reality TV. It is about a belief system that aids and abets abuse every single day.

[MalteseBaby]

I wonder if they would now consider making next seasons episodes centered around healing a family. Group and individual sessions with a therapist and the sisters talking about how they're effected. Individual sessions with Josh with j&M, Josh with Anna, and perhaps Josh and sisters eventually. All focused on healing this or similar kinds of family damage.

Respectfully, NO. Therapy to heal the hurts of sexual abuse is intense and intensely private. A huge amount of trust has to exist between client and therapist.

Nothing about the therapeutic process could or should be televised by any network.

To attempt to do this for money would be a whole other type of abuse, a re-victimization.

Also, there is nothing which Josh could talk about in depth about his sexual or aggressive angry feelings with sexual misconduct that would be suitable for TV.

This is just not how therapy works.

I'm sure you didn't know, but to be effective, it has to be intense and privacy and trust are paramount to the healing process.

I have an advanced degree in Psychology and am also a nurse with over 35 years' experience in my career, and I've seen wonderful results from excellent therapy, but only in a private and trusting milieu.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

o.m.g.

I just typed a whole long post and it disappeared. GAH! :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Oh well. It was probably semi-coherent drivel at best. I'm sleep deprived.

Basically the TL;DR version is this:

- I think that given their family of origin and the culture in which these girls were raised (including Anna), I think it's likely that they may not realize just how serious this abuse was or how deeply they have been violated, both by the molestation and by the subsequent failure of their God-given protectors REFUSING to adequately protect them and punish their abuser.

- I hope that this coming to light now will at least give them the opportunity to face whats happened to them in a way that appropriately recognizes that they are victims, not at fault and that they are not damaged and that they can have a different life if they choose.

- I hope the married girls are getting sufficient support from their spouses and in-laws who have not had the misfortune of marinating in this corrupt and perverted religious brine for decades.

[albireo]

Ugh, ugh, ugh. My heart weeps. It makes me sick to think that in the ATI obsession with "purity" the victims were told, and continue to be told, that this was their fault, that they are somehow "damaged," (I can hardly stand to write that...) when they were and still are going through so much pain and saw Josh get off scot free. I hope all these girls get far, far away from that family, get real counseling, and can heal. I hope the younger kids, including the M'kids, are safe. I want Anna to take her kids and run, but she won't do that judging by her statement. Ugh.

[Furbabies]

So the Oprah offering the girls free educations was true.

Can we hope that she does so, again? And the boys too. Anything to get them AWAY from these sleazebag parents. How many of us here would "adopt a Duggar" just to give the poor younger ones a chance?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Where was all this outrage when Lena Dunham joked about molesting her sister? I don't get it. I searched to make sure I wasn't mistaken-but hardly a mention of the Lena Dunham molestation and yet post after post about Josh Duggar's molestation. At least he is sorry. She still acts like it is no big deal. And hey while we are at it. Where is the outrage about Terry Bean--the founder of the Human Rights Campaign and the reason you see all the plus sign FB profile pics? His boyfriend went to police and reported that Terry had sodomized a 15 year old boy. But it is all crickets here. If we are all grossed out and offended my a child molesting Josh Duggar but don't comment about liberals who do the same thing then what does that make us? Hypocrites. That is what. I hate that anyone does these things to the innocent. Conservative and liberal alike. Famous and non-famous. It was wrong for Josh Duggar and it was wrong for Lena Dunham and Terry Bean. Wrong is wrong. Yet all these people here up in arms about Josh Duggar and when it came out about Lena Dunham it was just crickets here. That is a shame.

Josh is about as "sorry" as a 3 year old who got in trouble for hitting a kid over a toy. He's saying sorry because he has to, not because he actually feels guilt. He won't even admit to exactly what he did, and he writes it off as "a stupid teenage thing." As if forcibly groping multiple people, most of whom are prepubescent, is on par with sneaking out of the house to attend a party with your friends.

He's not sorry. He's just sorry he was caught. There's a big difference.

[meep]

I'm not surprised. Welcome to rape culture.

On the plus side, (not that this was ever going to happen anyways, but) Mike Huckabee has pretty much cemented his never-in-a-million-years-going-to-be-president reputation. YAY! You've really revealed your true colors (that and his whole son torturing a dog scandal). Now go on with your beliefs and supports and spend the rest of your life far away from any type of public office. Cheers!

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I wonder if they would now consider making next seasons episodes centered around healing a family. Group and individual sessions with a therapist and the sisters talking about how they're effected. Individual sessions with Josh with j&M, Josh with Anna, and perhaps Josh and sisters eventually. All focused on healing this or similar kinds of family damage.

I said it on the other thread and I'll say it again: no! Therapy sessions should ALWAYS be private. They should NEVER be exploited. They should NEVER be broadcast. The only time anyone should ever have access to them is if it's court ordered. These girls need help, Josh needs help, the other kids need help. None of that help should be publicized.