Scandal Fallout - MEGA MERGE

[FloraKitty35]

In the next 3 months, all Gothard followers will rethink their approach to sexuality and how to safe environment for children. Sexual abuse within such families will finally be brought to light and dealt with. The culture of suppression and blame the victim will shift.

It will take years to undo the damage, but now they are all forced to shift their thinking.

One can only hope.

[Luvchild]

I have seen more mainstream media references to Bill Gothard, the Quiverfull movement, and the Christian Patriarchy movement in the past 72 hours that I had ever seen in my entire life. Slate even did a nice short piece arguing that the Christian Patriarchy movement in the US has 3 main leaders--Gothard, Vision Forum's Doug Phillips (is a tool) and the Duggar Family, and ALL 3 leaders have been involved in sexual molestation scandals. Yesterday, 3 of the most read 5 articles on the website of the Washington Post (arguably one of the most influential newspapers in the World) were critical pieces about the Duggars. To FJers outside the US, this may not seem like a big deal, but here in the US, a bright shining light has been trained on the Duggars and their world for the first time. Even if this national exposure doesn't last long, it has been a good thing.

I so agree with this post - this restrictive religion has damaged so many children and if this scandal and reporting helps some in some way, I'm so happy it's come to light. That being said, I feel bad for the victims and my heart breaks for them. I never in a million years imagined the scale of abuse as I read. I really all these years only thought "oh JimBob caught Josh with a girl" - you know some girl his own age - fooling around- and overreacted -

[isarhenne]

the two things that anger me the most about this situation:

1. the girls who are not married and living with jb and michelle probably dont even know what is going on right now (at least not to the full extent) and JB can lie to them or play it down as he pleases like: "hey guys , come to the living room, we have something important to tell you. ...remember when josh fondled you and we went to the police, well, the media got the report now and it's in the news. but don't worry, josh can handle this, he resigned in D.C. and will move back to Arkansas to be with his family. I'm sure this is a very difficult time for HIM! Let's all pray for HIM!"

2. Most of the fundies who watch the duggars or are even members of ATI and Gothard will still think that the situation is better than in most liberal families and that being gay, asexual, transgendered, atheist,...ist still worse than what Josh, JB and Michelle did.

[HideTheSpankingStick]

I think the speculation about what is going on in the house seems to be correct. JB has been making phone calls aplenty. I live about 20 minutes from them, and the news outlet has issued stories on two area congressmen who have come out in support of the Duggars. JB is pulling in every favor he ever had.

I don't understand how anybody can come out in support of a family who conveniently waited till it was a good time for them to report it, reported it to someone who they knew would not pursue it, then didn't get the victims/perpetrators the help they needed. If you read the police report, they even told the investigators that they would not be coming in for more interviews. As if they could call the shots.

Then for the judge to order the reports destroyed: that is a tell-tale sign that JB is raising hell and trying to get the situation controlled. It also shows the corruption in the legal system down here. If you have fame and deep pockets, it gets you everywhere, apparently.

[nokidsmom]

Yup, I tweeted him back (and wrote on his facebook)...No, good people do NOT do disgusting things, that's what makes them good people.

I always find it interesting when someone says "what so and so did was bad, but he/she is a good person". No. Just no. That means that someone knows it's wrong, is on the defensive, is rationalizing. I wish people would really think when they say stuff like this.

[PennySycamore]

Josh could be sent into outer-space without any oxygen for all I care.

Only if he's joined by his shitty parents.

[Idolatry]

Some news outlets are reporting that TLC execs are debating weather to cut Smuggar out of the show or to cancel it: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... -1.2233122

Also what would a spin-off with Jill/Jessa look like? 1 Kid and Counting?

Jill and Jessa Take Arkansas. They could cook casseroles and attend homophobic rallies.

[carriedaway14]

I was reading some older articles and I have hope for Jill that she and Derek will get out of Arkansas and go off with the Dillards once this media circus is over.

Especially since Jill has not appeared that much in the most recent episodes of 19 Kids and because of the fact she wanted to help Susanna Keller deliver her baby back in 2013-- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... other.html

[iknowright]

I so agree with this post - this restrictive religion has damaged so many children and if this scandal and reporting helps some in some way, I'm so happy it's come to light. That being said, I feel bad for the victims and my heart breaks for them. I never in a million years imagined the scale of abuse as I read. I really all these years only thought "oh JimBob caught Josh with a girl" - you know some girl his own age - fooling around- and overreacted -

Although I know sick, twisted minds can abuse any child from any background, there is a special kind of disgust knowing they knew, did not get professional help, and continued on as if nothing has happened. But let me tell you, that is what Gothard does on his own and what he admonishes others to do with their own family "issues." One thing that his teachings on this are going to smack the followers upside the face - what to do about his stance about improper sexual situations before marriage? Gothard answer: the two should be married. Hmmm...that's not going to work is it?

I also know no belief system is immune from perverse sicko's, but I'll be so glad when those of us who are moderate evangelicals can be separated by title from Christian Fundie Patriarchy. Oh, they love for the media and the public at large to confuse the two...BUT THEY ARE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME BALLPARK.

The show needs to be canceled. All parties involved need professional help. Especially Josh.

Maybe someone in psychiatric health on the board can help answer these questions: 1) Given the nature that this wasn't a one time occurrence and happened again after being caught, what is the likelihood of more attempts by Josh? 2) It seems to me that this is more common in a cousin or step-sibling situation or looser relation than a full blood sibling. Am I wrong about that?

I'm sitting here realizing it wasn't just one sister, it was several AND a friend. MULTIPLE VICTIMS. Yes, one is too many,, but this to me shows the mindset of Josh.

[Idolatry]

Wow, even the tame People coverage has some very angry comments. Usually, they're all unicorns and rainbows for the Duggars.

[thedarksheep]

I'd love a show that focused on the Duggar daughters. No creepy Josh or despicable parents.

But I don't see how that would be a possibility while the girls are under Boob's iron thumb rule. I don't know though...he might grudgingly allow it just because I know he's that greedy and is probably loathe to lose the gravy train. But I doubt it. He has too much of a need to control every damned aspect of anything involving his family members. Especially those girls.

[browngrl]

TLC is going to make a business decision. They don't give a shit about abuse or molestation. It is all: Will this hurt the brand? Can we make money? So if the Duggar base continues to support them you can bet TLC will find a way to spin the show to keep the cash flowing.

This being said, the only Duggar show I'd watch now is the one where Jinger and Jana and Joy move out of the house and out of the fundie life. I picture Jana doing that Mary Tyler Moore twirl (where she tosses her hat in the air) in some big city - full of joy and life. Now that would be fun for me to watch.

[Hera]

I'd love a show that focused on the Duggar daughters. No creepy Josh or despicable parents.

But I don't see how that would be a possibility while the girls are under Boob's iron thumb rule. I don't know though...he might grudgingly allow it just because I know he's that greedy and is probably loathe to lose the gravy train. But I doubt it. He has too much of a need to control every damned aspect of anything involving his family members. Especially those girls.

What would a show about the girls be about, though? Jana and Jinger aren't allowed to do anything but take care of JB&M's kids, clean their house and cook for them. And that's all Jill and Jessa do for thier own families, too. It's not like they can show them getting jobs and living in the real world. Jana and Jinger cannot even date without JB being in the middle of it. And besides, as much as I feel for them and what they have been through, the girls have been brainwashed to spout the same awful rhetoric JB and M and Josh do. I think I'd rather the platform just go away.

The only Duggar-related thing I would watch would be if they showed the older kids moving away from the religion and what that experience is like. But, frankly, I doubt that would happen, and if it did, I think the process would be too painful and end up being vaguely exploitative if filmed in "real time."

[MatthewDuggar]

This being said, the only Duggar show I'd watch now is the one where Jinger and Jana and Joy move out of the house and out of the fundie life. I picture Jana doing that Mary Tyler Moore twirl (where she tosses her hat in the air) in some big city - full of joy and life. Now that would be fun for me to watch.

A show like that would be boring and cancelled very quickly. Even if if were along the lines of "Breaking Amish", who's to say the girls, esp. Jana, really want to "break free"? If anything this might be making her want to stay at home all the more. Strange but true.

[carriedaway14]

TLC is going to make a business decision. They don't give a shit about abuse or molestation. It is all: Will this hurt the brand? Can we make money? So if the Duggar base continues to support them you can bet TLC will find a way to spin the show to keep the cash flowing.

This being said, the only Duggar show I'd watch now is the one where Jinger and Jana and Joy move out of the house and out of the fundie life. I picture Jana doing that Mary Tyler Moore twirl (where she tosses her hat in the air) in some big city - full of joy and life. Now that would be fun for me to watch.

A Jinger, Joy, Jana spin-off about their life after Gothard/ATI would be fascinating. I imagine for certain girls, the transition would be slower, while I could see Jinger just jumping into the real world, wearing pants, and watching Breaking Bad right off the bat. However, I could see the other girls doing more mainstream things while still wearing skirts and being devout Christians. I would love to see them go to the Museum of Natural History in NYC and for them to go to an actual movie theatre showing something that's not starring Kirk Cameron.

With counseling and being away from Boob's control, they could live normal lives.

However in light of what they've been through and how Boob and JChelle are handling it, I don't see Jana ever leaving that house unless she could somehow get CPS to give her custody of her younger siblings. She obviously sees herself as their protector. And with Josh moving back to Arkansas, she's probably not leaving that house without those Lost Girls and Josie. She's also not equipped to get them out of Boob and JChelle's custody (or if CPS would even find anything to get those younger kids away from Boob and JChelle's home). Even if she was equipped to get them out of JChelle and Boob's custody, she would have to temporarily leave the house and leave the Lost Girls behind. She'd be gambling as there would be no guarantee she would get them. Staying at home guarantees she's there to protect them.

[thedarksheep]

It certainly wouldn't be much of a show if Boob was still in charge, even behind the scenes. Yeah, I think the only way this could happen is if the girls moved out. I don't even know that they would. They would certainly have lots of support if they did. But I doubt they are even aware of this. What they aren't aware of is so much it's mind-blowing. I wonder if the married daughters have discovered things?

I wonder what they'd think about this site?

[JMO]

Did anyone else read the Gawker article with the story from the former crew member stating that another crew member was kicked off back in 2008 once Michelle found out he was gay?

[FundieFarmer]

I have seen more mainstream media references to Bill Gothard, the Quiverfull movement, and the Christian Patriarchy movement in the past 72 hours that I had ever seen in my entire life. Slate even did a nice short piece arguing that the Christian Patriarchy movement in the US has 3 main leaders--Gothard, Vision Forum's Doug Phillips (is a tool) and the Duggar Family, and ALL 3 leaders have been involved in sexual molestation scandals. Yesterday, 3 of the most read 5 articles on the website of the Washington Post (arguably one of the most influential newspapers in the World) were critical pieces about the Duggars. To FJers outside the US, this may not seem like a big deal, but here in the US, a bright shining light has been trained on the Duggars and their world for the first time. Even if this national exposure doesn't last long, it has been a good thing.

Even our local newspaper touched on it! They didn't get very in depth, but I was thrilled to see it and left a comment saying so. Taking the rose-colored glasses off the Duggar reporting is awesome.

I think People has a bit tougher job, since they've been driving the Duggar fan train for a good while now. Some of us have joked they should've just changed their name to Duggar Magazine. I think that accounts for some of their reporting on this, though I think it just is what it is.

[FakePigtails]

Here's another petition to get the show off the air.

[vienna]

I was reading some older articles and I have hope for Jill that she and Derek will get out of Arkansas and go off with the Dillards once this media circus is over.

Especially since Jill has not appeared that much in the most recent episodes of 19 Kids and because of the fact she wanted to help Susanna Keller deliver her baby back in 2013-- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... other.html

Thanks for the link! How many bad news of the duggar reality can this brand survive? Take 19 kids and counting down all together unless the show starts showing the truth!

[sense and nonsense]

Let me see if I can get this straight. Mike Huckabee came out in defence of Josh Duggar, who systematically molested his sisters for over a year at least and got away with it. The judge who just ordered Josh Duggar's record destroyed was appointed by Mike Huckabee. Mike Huckabee is a personal friend of the Duggars.

When Jim Bob Duggar discovered that Josh was molesting his sisters, he waited a year until his church elders pressured him, and then sent Josh to a "program" run by Bill Gothard, who has been accused by dozens of underage girls of sexually harassing and molesting them over a period of decades. Bill Gothard's own brother Steve was also accused of having inappropriate sexual relationships with women working for the institute. After Josh returned from his "treatment", Jim Bob and Michelle sent their daughters, who had been victimized by Josh, to IBLP and 'Journey to the Heart', both run by Bill Gothard, over and over again.

When Josh returned from his "treatment", Jim Bob brought him to a state trooper he personally knew for a "stern talking to". This state trooper then claimed there was nothing else to be done. Said state trooper is now serving over 50 years in prison for child pornography.

When the investigation was opened in 2006, Jim Bob was evasive, possibly outright dishonest, and refused to allow Josh to be interviewed. Interestingly enough, Josh was an adult at this point, not a minor child. The report then mysteriously ended with no conclusion.

SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF ARKANSAS.

This is a great summary of what was/is going on. I think this should be reported in the media.

[carriedaway14]

Thanks for the link! How many bad news of the duggar reality can this brand survive? Take 19 kids and counting down all together unless the show starts showing the truth!

TLC should be helping these women. The only way I would want them to continue the show was if AFTER the older girls receive counseling, they have a two-hour special where the girls speak about how badly this was handled by their parents and give a PSA to encourage others in fundamentalist circles like ATI/Gothardism to seek outside help.

[Peas n carrots]

I doubt JB and J'Chelle will double down. As parents they have been phoning it in for years. Jana will likely stay on board and raise the small kids, Joy/Jinger will marry. But I can't imagine with a bombshell this large and with this many people the whole unit sticking together. It won't happen immediately but the kids will start gradually drifting away. Josh will be forgiven, but relatively unwelcome going forward. Anna will eventually leave Josh with the kids, but not for several years and going through more hardship as being known as the wife of a child molester. TLC will cancel, but I think the show will go away quietly.

Josh will never have the same glitzy life schmoozing politicians again. He may get the public messages of support from the likes of Huckabee but I guarantee he won't be caught dead with him. He will spend the rest of his life working for peanuts in some dingy office of a friend of his dad's and binge eating fast food to fill the hole in his life.

[Rainytown]

To me that's highly unlikely. He's not able to do anything for a think tank. What would he do remotely? What contribution could he give, that could be considered so highly valuable to still have him in the staff under cover?

He was not hired by FRC for his lobbying skills, he was hired as the poster child of the perfect-mega-conservative family.

That has fallen into pieces, there's nothing left for him to do on the political scene in my opinion.

Scooter Libby was employed by a GOP think tank (for example) after his refusal to testify during the Valerie Plame dustup.

Smuggar will get paid for respirating. And participating in conference calls re: fundraising and opposition research. Here's an idea: He's probably got as much dirt on all of them as they now have on him, seeing as how he's had his picture taken with the leading GOP Presidential candidates, etcetera.

[contessa perdono]

Maybe someone in psychiatric health on the board can help answer these questions: 1) Given the nature that this wasn't a one time occurrence and happened again after being caught, what is the likelihood of more attempts by Josh? 2) It seems to me that this is more common in a cousin or step-sibling situation or looser relation than a full blood sibling. Am I wrong about that?

Hi everyone - long time lurker, first time poster. I don't want to reveal my exact "credentials," but I work in mental health as both a clinician and researcher, and specifically within the area of trauma and interpersonal violence. Keep in mind that although I have some knowledge about sex offender assessment and treatment, my knowledge may not be as up-to-date as someone who directly does work in that area (I am more on the victim end of things).

There are a lot of factors involved in predicting recividism. I've been following the discussion on here of whether or not Josh is a pedophile. The thing is, we can't really say for sure. Offending against children doesn't make someone a pedophile, sometimes they're just the easiest to access. Some of the types of people who offend against children (non-pedophile or pedophile) are more treatable than others. Without an assessment, we don't really know where Josh falls.

The fact that Josh preyed on his female siblings and a girl that he knew are actually good indicators that his case is probably more treatable than, say, someone who offended against strangers. I can also say from the perspective of sibling abuse that generally the best treatment approach is fixing dysfunctional family dynamics and inappropriate boundaries. However, it appears that did not happen and it is probably not going to happen.