Scandal Fallout - MEGA MERGE

[freehannie]

People now has an article about the treatment center Josh was sent to.

[Palimpsest]

Katie Botkin (former fundie, intelligent and thoughtful blogger, cousin to the Botkinettes) posted a brief synopsis comparing Josh Duggar's scandal to the various other recent scandals:

kbotkin.com/2015/05/22/josh-duggar-and-the-pattern-of-scandal/

Thanks! For the 99999th time, I freaking LOVE Katie Botkin! Please give her hits and praise.

Here is what this bastion of good sense said for those who are too lazy to click.

The Josh Duggar scandal is only the most recent of a disturbing trend in what I’ll call Cloistered Christian Patriarchy movements. Although the communities have differed in approach and tone, location and rules, there are a number of them who have seen similar scandals. They have all promoted strict authority structures, vilification of anyone who didn’t adopt the group’s core messages, isolation from outside influence and rigid gender roles. The Doug Phillips fiasco was one such example. Doug Wilson siding with child molesters (and essentially marrying them to members of his congregation) would be another. And then there’s Bill Gothard, the man whose homeschooling curriculum the Duggars followed, who resigned in a cloud of rumors with a whitewashed apology for being inappropriate with a number of young women.

I’ve addressed this before by speculating that particular kinds of sociopaths could easily be drawn to these movements, but what came first, the sociopath or the environment that encouraged him to be one?

The pattern of all of these scandals is:

-Perp gets caught molesting someone.

-Perp is wrangled into meeting with the elders of his church.

-Perp does one of several things: acts dumb, downplays the accusations or claims the victims were involved or being seductive — in each of these cases, minors; sleeping sisters; females under the perp’s direct employ who aren’t actually paid anything and thus have zero legal protection under employee-employer harassment laws; or some combination thereof.

-When pressed, perp confesses and “repents.â€

-Since “repentance†is all that is called for, great lengths are gone to in order to ensure that the criminal aspects of this are downplayed or are not reported to secular authorities before the statute of limitations expires.

-The victim may be called upon to repent as well. If the victim refuses, says she is not at fault, or indicates that she is angry at the perp, she is labeled “bitter†and “unrepentant,†among other things, and if she continues to be “bitter,†potentially excommunicated.

-When word of this gets out, the faithful defend the molesters and the structure that protects them by saying things like “he made a mistake! Everyone makes mistakes! And now he’s sorry!†Or even “You’re just after him because he’s a Christian, you terrible liberal! Why don’t you get outraged over something that’s actually important, like trans people being allowed to use different bathrooms?†Or possibly “What about the girls? Why aren’t they getting called to task?†You know, similar to the assertion that an infant who gets his face blown up by a SWAT team is at fault for not just getting out of the way.

I’m not going to pretend to know why, according to police reports, Josh Duggar molested four of his sisters as well as an unnamed babysitter, but I sincerely doubt being raised in an environment where this was the pattern of dealing with abuse helped.

kbotkin.com/2015/05/22/josh-duggar-and-the-pattern-of-scandal/

[MatthewDuggar]

Smaggar and Anna's website hadn't been updated in years. I don't even think it included Marcus. With that said, they did have the "how we met" stories on there. It's not really a loss.

[BravaAmica]

People now has an article about the treatment center Josh was sent to.

I thought he worked for a family friend, renovating a house instead of going to any treatment.

[Palimpsest]

Oooo, where was it mentioned that Jinger knows about FJ? Can somebody link? I hadn't heard this story before

I'm not going to link because I want to encourage people to use the search function. Also, this one is in the archives somewhere, probably in Ask Me Anything. You have enough posts to access that subforum now but please do not copy stuff from there back here. Rules!

Clues for a search: The Informant's name was Knight In Shining Amore. Also known as KISA. (I only remember this because I mentally renamed him KissAss when I read the thread after the event.) While verified as a person on the outskirts of VF, he proved to be a nasty malicious gossip who made a lot of things up. As always on the internet, do not believe everything you read. Opinions are subjective.

[gustava]

I'm not going to link because I want to encourage people to use the search function. Also, this one is in the archives somewhere, probably in Ask Me Anything. You have enough posts to access that subforum now but please do not copy stuff from there back here. Rules!

Clues for a search: The Informant's name was Knight In Shining Amore. Also known as KISA. (I only remember this because I mentally renamed him KissAss when I read the thread after the event.) While verified as a person on the outskirts of VF, he proved to be a nasty malicious gossip who made a lot of things up. As always on the internet, do not believe everything you read. Opinions are subjective.

OT: KISA was so much fun!! Wish he'd come back, so we could torment him again :twisted:

[Palimpsest]

OT: KISA was so much fun!! Wish he'd come back, so we could torment him again :twisted:

OT too: Sadly, I missed the fun in real time. I also wish he'd come back and face the music but I think FJ's logical arguments scared him off permanently. :lol:

[Anastasia]

Lessons From Moral Failures in a Family

In the alleged ATI teachings, after a period of repentance, the older brother is asked questions such as "What teaching could have been given to each child to resist evil?" and "What factors in the home contributed to immodesty and temptation?"

This is from: Inside the 'Treatment' Josh Duggar Received After Reported Child Molestation.

It's instruction on how to prevent little girls from beguiling older brothers.

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

[AB45377]

I thought he worked for a family friend, renovating a house instead of going to any treatment.

PEOPLE magazine says it has confirmed Josh Duggar attended Basic Life Principles Training Center in Little Rock.

[Mama Mia]

Lessons From Moral Failures in a Family

In the alleged ATI teachings, after a period of repentance, the older brother is asked questions such as "What teaching could have been given to each child to resist evil?" and "What factors in the home contributed to immodesty and temptation?"

This is from: Inside the 'Treatment' Josh Duggar Received After Reported Child Molestation.

It's instruction on how to prevent little girls from beguiling older brothers.

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

Somewhere in these massive threads on the molestation there is a link to the whole presentation -- it's really appalling. What really pisses me off is that even if Jim Bob and Michelle were able to convince themselves, and all their children, that ALL sexual activity outside of heterosexual married sex is wrong - and not just wrong - but equally wrong -- they still grew up in the mainstream world.

Theyknow that society does not think a teenager forcibly molesting multiple little girls is equal to having a stash of porn. They know that the world outside their bubble finds child molesting pretty much the worst thing there is. Period.

They also know that in the eyes of the world there are different levels of moral responsibility for a fourteen year old and an 8 year old -- because - hey, it's an advancing continuum of development -- not 100% dependent on mom and dad for all decisions from birth until marriage .

- but they chose to make these kids think that there are these very solid concrete boxes of categories of people. So a 5 year little girl and an 18year old all go in the box labeled " female" - and anything female is equally sexual . Why else would they harp about modesty for little girls?

And they chose to make them think that they were completely unable of being actually responsible - instead of just obedient - until they were married.

And they chose to let them think that the world would consider a teen boy fondeling small children against their will was no worse than if he was caught having sex with his girlfriend.

Seriously they set up all those kids at every step. And think of the added stress to all of them of always having it hanging over their heads that the secret might come out. Awful.

[AB45377]

On that note, I was really glad to see that People included the fact that Jim Bob and Michelle did not turn Josh over to the authorities when they found out what he was doing, but instead went to members of their church. It's quite unfortunate to see so many articles claiming that JB&M were the ones to turn him in. They weren't. In fact, from what the police report suggests, they covered up for him for a full year before they even got the church elders involved.

I bet PEOPLE is going to uncover as much as it can. Keep the headlines it's quick $$$.

[MPC]

This is one of the biggest problems with conservative evangelical Christianity. Everyone is a sinner, and all sins are equal in God's eyes, so the only thing that counts is whether you've been saved. Child molestation is a sin, pre-marital sex is a sin, porn is a sin, masturbation is a sin, lustful thinking is a sin, teenagers making out are sinning, birth control is a sin, drinking alcohol is a sin, dancing is a sin, listening to the wrong kinds of music is a sin, being gay is a sin, voting Democrat is a sin, lying is a sin, stealing is a sin, taking God's name in vain is a sin, murdering someone is a sin, abortion is a sin, not wanting to get married is a sin -

Guess what? When everything is disgusting, nothing is.

This is why I consider myself an ex-Baptist. There's so much contradiction and hypocrisy in the culture, the Bible and Christianity itself. People can be good upstanding citizens and not have religion play into critical thinking and social hierarchies.

[Hera]

...Theyknow that society does not think a teenager forcibly molesting multiple little girls is equal to having a stash of porn. They know that the world outside their bubble finds child molesting pretty much the worst thing there is. Period....

This is a really good point, and just speaks to the deliberateness with which they covered this up. They know this is a crime. Full stop. It isn't a moral failing; it isn't a teenage mistake; it's a crime. And one that they know - even if their children do not - has lasting repercussions on their children's lives. But, they just don't care. The more I think about it, the angrier I get at JB and M. Even within their "culture," JB is a failure. He failed to prevent "the devil" from entering his home, he failed to prevent amoral actions in his home, he failed to protect his daughters, and he failed to live up to the trust Michelle "placed" in him to lead their family in a "godly" direction. Instead, he turned a blind eye and let child molestation continue. That doesn't happen in most secular households. So, yeah, JB's headship resulted in ungodliness that even atheists don't condone. But Michelle failed, too, because she knows better. Michelle wasn't born being fed the kool-aid, she chose to drink it. And she chose to continue to drink it, even though she knew 4 (at least) of her children had been molested and their "headship" did nothing about it. And for what? Money, fame, ministry? Well, the ministry is wrecked; the Duggars will forever be linked with this in the media. The fame has become infamy

And the money, well, I guess it will last a while, but it's amazing how fast even $4-5 million will go when you have 30 mouths and growing to feed. Even within the measures by which they should measure themselves, these two have utterly failed.

[lascuba]

I thought Josh didn't attend any treatment center at all. Jim Bob claimed he did, and then Michelle clarified to police that he was sent to that home remodeler for 3 months, no counselor, just a "sort of" mentor. Is there more information that he later attended that program, or is People going off what Jim Bob originally said as opposed to actual police report where Michelle admitted Josh had no kind of counseling at all?

[bluehydrangea]

Is it at all likely that the Pecan Thief will comment on this, either on his blog or via Youtube? On the one hand, this may be too sensitive a subject for him, given his super-close ties to headquarters and being married to Anna's sister. But on the other hand, he's kind of a big-mouthed narcissist, so I would think the temptation for him to jump into the conversation would be strong.

[DIRTYPILLOWS]

I bet PEOPLE is going to uncover as much as it can. Keep the headlines it's quick $$$.

I was under the impression that the Duggars had some kind of deal with People Magazine. People kept that family on it's cover so for them to uncover all of this and to mention Alice is very telling to the Duggars future. (Iceburg Right ahead) The Duggar's Titanic is sinking quickly.

[lilith]

Is it at all likely that the Pecan Thief will comment on this, either on his blog or via Youtube? On the one hand, this may be too sensitive a subject for him, given his super-close ties to headquarters and being married to Anna's sister. But on the other hand, he's kind of a big-mouthed narcissist, so I would think the temptation for him to jump into the conversation would be strong.

Pretty sure The Fabulous David Waller will do exactly what the IBLP board tells him to - and they seem to be hoping to ride this out in silence at the moment.

[Dandruff]

I wonder if part of the reason Jim Bob and Michelle decided to build such a huge house was to keep Josh busy and away from his sisters.

[Palimpsest]

You know, it occurs to me that J.B. Duggar was a State Rep in 2002. As A State Rep he swore an oath of office before the God in whom he says he believes:

Article 19 - Section 20 -Oath of Office

Senators and Representatives and all judicial and executive, State and county officers, and all other officers, both civil and military, before entering on the duties of their respective offices shall take and subscribe to the following oath of affirmation.

"I, ______ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Arkansas, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of ____________, upon which I am now about to enter."

Uh, yes. Supporting the Constitution means supporting and obeying the laws of that Constitution.

So J.B. Duggar, State Rep (dumped by his constituency after a single term) but later presuming to run for the US Senate while being questioned in 2006/7 about his son's sexual abuse gets to disobey the laws of the United States. He scoffs at the law because he wants to protect his little snowflake sexually abusing son.

And where does that leave the repulsive Huckabee today? Totally unfit to run for President because he supports J.B. and Josh Duggar in their scoffing at the laws of the United States of America against sexual predators.

Yes, we all know Huckabee is an ass, but it does bear repeating.

[whateverwhoever]

I wonder if part of the reason Jim Bob and Michelle decided to build such a huge house was to keep Josh busy and away from his sisters.

I've been wondering if that's part of why all the older girls insisted they wanted one big room...the better to protect the little ones.

[lilah]

Lessons From Moral Failures in a Family

In the alleged ATI teachings, after a period of repentance, the older brother is asked questions such as "What teaching could have been given to each child to resist evil?" and "What factors in the home contributed to immodesty and temptation?"

This is from: Inside the 'Treatment' Josh Duggar Received After Reported Child Molestation.

It's instruction on how to prevent little girls from beguiling older brothers.

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

Oh how ironic to see People mag has turned on the Duggars considering all the exclusive access they've sold to them over the years. It's not like the Duggar's involvementioned with ATI was any secret nor that ATI's reaching were a crock of shit. But they only turned on th r m when it became profitable to do So. Wonder if they will buy baby seewald's hospital pics.

[Clutched Pearls]

the scandal has made me think about scenes from recent episodes in a whole 'nother light.

1. The recent weddings: I would be willing to bet that JB & M told Jill and Jessa that they had to wear off-white wedding dresses because they weren't "pure" enough to wear white.

2. The girls crying when Jill moved out. At first I thought the other J'sisters reactions were a bit much because I didn't think the girls were that close. But now I'm thinking that Jill was one of the few confidantes and sources of comforts for some of the girls.

I can't fathom what it was like for those girls to grow up with their abuser just around the corner. I think it would to totally irresponsible for TLC to continue 19kac. JB & M did everything exactly wrong with handling Josh. I don't see it any differently than the Honey Boo Boo situation

[antwan]

Also what would a spin-off with Jill/Jessa look like? 1 Kid and Counting?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[antwan]

Two images come to mind...

1) Jim Bob literally freaking out about his money train and "image" crashing against a self-imposed brick wall (think "DPIAT" when his self image went awry as well.)

2) The Willis Family trying to remain humble and suppressing that "happy dance" feeling (you know, that "We got our own show but we'll never be able to unseat the Duggars.....oh wait, I think we suddenly can!" happy dance feeling.)

p.s. and a contemplation...Gill Bates HAD to know, yes? He's on the board for ATI. He simply HAD to know. Well, okay, can't say this with certainty, but it's my feeling that he did. Ick!

[DaysAgo]

the scandal has made me think about scenes from recent episodes in a whole 'nother light.

1. The recent weddings: I would be willing to bet that JB & M told Jill and Jessa that they had to wear off-white wedding dresses because they weren't "pure" enough to wear white.

2. The girls crying when Jill moved out. At first I thought the other J'sisters reactions were a bit much because I didn't think the girls were that close. But now I'm thinking that Jill was one of the few confidantes and sources of comforts for some of the girls.

I can't fathom what it was like for those girls to grow up with their abuser just around the corner. I think it would to totally irresponsible for TLC to continue 19kac. JB & M did everything exactly wrong with handling Josh. I don't see it any differently than the Honey Boo Boo situation

You're right about the wedding dresses! I had thought it was odd that they did not wear white ones. They were considered impure due to the abuse so they couldn't wear white!