Scandal Fallout - MEGA MERGE

[anon710]

I was able to get through to someone on their century city line.

But it was pretty bullshitty, I left my contact information.

I called back (currently still on hold) to try to pry something out of the receptionist. ''To get a basic base line 'feeling' from the discovery network regarding these allegations...'' She said she had no opinion.. And I asked ''Really, no opinion on these molestation charges''

then she asked if there was anything else she could help me with, and I said 'a real number would be very helpful'' to which she said ''That is the only number. Did you leave your contact information''

I replied ''yes''

robotic she asked if there was anything else she could help me with.... I said ''Yes, your honest feelings about the Josh dugger molestation charges''

''I have no opinion''

'' Really, no opinion on him molesting his sisters''

she was obviously squirming, and said she had another call and put me on hold...

Clearly I won't be taken off hold. I want a real number and a real statement.

I've been known to illegally trespass on federal property to get statements, even if they were off the record in some cases.

hanging up now and trying again.

[HereticHick]

Receptionists are not spokespeople. Perhaps she would lose her job if she started giving out her personal opinions to random callers.

Receptionists at my place of employment certainly would.

[LogansMama]

JOSH is still listed as a speaker at the Alive Christian Music Festival later this month, as of today: http://www.alive.org/speakers/

(along with Anna, and the other 2 youg Duggar couples)

If any of you feel like doing something proactive--and don't feel that it is appropriate for Josh to have paid speaking gigs at this time--consider contacting Alive: alivefest@alive.org or through https://twitter.com/alivefestival or their Facebook page.

That's quite a diverse group of speakers...she said sarcastically. :roll:

[anon710]

Receptionists are not spokespeople. Perhaps she would lose her job if she started giving out her personal opinions to random callers.

Receptionists at my place of employment certainly would.

I am pretty aware of that.. In essence what I was trying to do was get a real number for a real spokesperson.

Sometimes if you make them squirm enough they will give you a real number with a real person. This isn't my first rodeo, but this is something that is being closely guarded.

I can be like a hound dog when I'm in investigation mode.

[EmmieJ]

I haven't posted in a while and I hope despite any differences I will be allowed to say my piece.

Long and short there has been much talk of the Duggar brand somehow being tarnished, that the parents had no to sell themselves as the perfect family, particularly in light of this revelation.

Honestly, how so? The parents and Josh are sleazy to be sure, but the rest of the kids and the victims, not so much. I look at those kids and I still see virtue; I still them living for God.

It hurts my heart that the kids and victims are being lumped in this way and that because of this they have no right to continue.

Those girls despite what happened to them are still examples of Godly womanhood. They are the more than the summation of their vaginas. What happened to them was beyond their control. What was taken from them was without their consent. I am of the opinion that taken withou consent can never be taken at all. They aren't damAged; they are still perfect in the eyes of Christ. That goes double for all assault victims in every walk of life.

**quote snipped for brevity***

I have not specifically said that the Duggar brand is tarnished, but I do agree that it is. The Duggar "brand" was all about how the Duggar parents followed certain biblical principles, and how they believe their way of raising their children and living by certain principles is the best. They have described their television show as a ministry, to show all us heathens how much better our lives would be if only we would follow the same principles. Me, one of the heathens, has never agreed that their lifestyle is better. In fact, I've always thought it was worse than the way I was raised, and the way I choose to live my life and raise my own child.

I do not agree with the patriarchal construct. The idea that men are above women; that women should be subservient to their husband and allow him to make the decisions; that our sex determines the options we have in life; that girls should be raised to get married and have as many children "as God allows". Nor do I agree with the Duggar parents' purposeful ignorance of the greater world around them, their disdain of higher education; their choice to limit their children's opportunities in life; JimBob's control over even his adult children, and on and on.

One of the most serious problems with any religion where men are put above women, where questioning is not allowed, where the group follows a questionable leader even after it has been demonstrated that the leader is an abuser himself, is the sexual abuse that seems to occur. The abuse is built into the system.

I am sorry that the girls that Josh abused have to endure the very public disclosure of this fact. On the other hand, if it was not made public, the Duggars would have continued to hold themselves out as examples of how parents should raise their children, when in fact, they are horrible examples. Their religious beliefs combined with their shit-poor parenting, is what lead to the sexual abuse in the first place. They were given a platform to not only spout their beliefs, but present them in a white-washed acceptable way, when the truth is really quite ugly. Blanket training. Making victims of sexual abuse feel guilty for somehow "enticing" the abuser. Touting purity and modesty, while JimBob constantly has to smarm all over Michelle and make suggestive sexual comments. Keeping an iron-fisted control over their children, even unto adulthood. Purposely limiting their children's opportunities in life by not allowing them to even consider going to a trade school or other higher education. Demonizing gays, lesbians and transgender people, and working to take away their rights. Making their older daughters raise the younger kids. All of this is horrible parenting, but it took the revelation of a sordid sexual abuse within the family to finally open some casual viewer's eyes to the fact that you DO NOT WANT TO DO WHAT THE DUGGAR PARENTS DO.

[EmmieJ]

Receptionists are not spokespeople. Perhaps she would lose her job if she started giving out her personal opinions to random callers.

Receptionists at my place of employment certainly would.

The receptionist is doing her job. And it's really unfair, since the people who could answer some of your questions are using her to shield them from any and all calls they don't want. So the receptionist gets the brunt of people's ire. I would suggest that anyone making calls to TLC, Discovery or anyone else connected with the show be as civil as you can to the person answering the phone. Believe me, they aren't getting paid enough for the crap they are taking since the scandal broke.

[The Duggar's Mohel]

I think the Willis children are more musically talented than the Duggar and Bates' offspring. The Willis daughters are also quite pretty, and the boys fairly attractive. (Although, their father was nice-looking as a young man, but he has not matured well. His wife on the other hand, IMO, has gotten better looking (and blonder) with age.) I found their music boring and repetitive, and I don't think they have truly strong voices. However, I could see the appeal to a conservative audience who wants "good Christian music." It's clear that mom and dad are hoping this show will lead to huge widespread success. I don't see that happening.

I don't like it when the children are the main source of income for the family. What does the dad do? Does he have a job? I think the mom is the manager of the family musical act, but when it comes down to it -- the kids are the ones working the hardest.

Did anyone else notice the oldest son, "Jair," talking about how stressful life can be, and so he works out in order to relieve some of that stress? Why is he so stressed out? Are the other kids also stressed out? It doesn't sound healthy to me. I've got a 17-year old son, and he does get stressed with school work, balancing that with his sports and his social life, so I know a certain level of stress is normal and unavoidable.

All I know is that I'm tired of large fundie families getting television shows.

I really can't say I disagree with any of this at all, fair assessment in my opinion.

And yes, I too am tired of these large fundie families. for me there is always an underlying feeling that deep deep down they think that if you're not on board, you just can't be a good person. I have never once seen or heard any on from these families (the ones with TV shows) voice their respect for anyone outside the fundie brotherhood. To deny that there are fantastic people from all walks of life is maddening.

[Nishi621]

What if anything might Derick and Ben do now that this is all out in the open?

Move their wives away from the Duggars? Stay put and play happy families? Will we hear in a few days that Josh duggar had to go to a hospital due to being in some sort of "accident"? Will they simply get their wives real therapy?

personally, to me, it seems that the Dillards are somehow backing away from the Duggar household. The way Jill behaved during that interview show, the fact that Derick didn't even bother to show up in person or via video feed, that JB didn't hold his new grandson for weeks and the previews for next season truly seem to me to be Derick and Jill moving away for some reason. Of course, this is just my little theories. Curious to see what others think

[karen77]

I will be interested to see what the next public (instagram/facebook) thing is put out there by any of them. It's been quiet for days. Will they address it at all or just pretend nothing happened? More curious is how B and D will deal with it with their new families too.

[nokidsmom]

My guess is that Derrick didn't appear because his day job? At any rate, he's going to need it now. I hope he and Jill move away from the family, figuratively if not literally. Of all the married kids, he and Jill have the best prospects because he's got a real degree and a real job.

My hopes for Ben is that he reassess his own prospects now that the show is over (I know it's not official yet but IMHO it's toast). He just graduated from CC which is good for him, maybe he will consider going on to get a four year degree.

This situation, as awful as it is, could be good for both because it forces them to assess their prospects and do something about them rather than relying on TLC money and their father in law.

[scarygirl]

I have not specifically said that the Duggar brand is tarnished, but I do agree that it is. The Duggar "brand" was all about how the Duggar parents followed certain biblical principles, and how they believe their way of raising their children and living by certain principles is the best. They have described their television show as a ministry, to show all us heathens how much better our lives would be if only we would follow the same principles. Me, one of the heathens, has never agreed that their lifestyle is better. In fact, I've always thought it was worse than the way I was raised, and the way I choose to live my life and raise my own child.

I do not agree with the patriarchal construct. The idea that men are above women; that women should be subservient to their husband and allow him to make the decisions; that our sex determines the options we have in life; that girls should be raised to get married and have as many children "as God allows". Nor do I agree with the Duggar parents' purposeful ignorance of the greater world around them, their disdain of higher education; their choice to limit their children's opportunities in life; JimBob's control over even his adult children, and on and on.

One of the most serious problems with any religion where men are put above women, where questioning is not allowed, where the group follows a questionable leader even after it has been demonstrated that the leader is an abuser himself, is the sexual abuse that seems to occur. The abuse is built into the system.

I am sorry that the girls that Josh abused have to endure the very public disclosure of this fact. On the other hand, if it was not made public, the Duggars would have continued to hold themselves out as examples of how parents should raise their children, when in fact, they are horrible examples. Their religious beliefs combined with their shit-poor parenting, is what lead to the sexual abuse in the first place. They were given a platform to not only spout their beliefs, but present them in a white-washed acceptable way, when the truth is really quite ugly. Blanket training. Making victims of sexual abuse feel guilty for somehow "enticing" the abuser. Touting purity and modesty, while JimBob constantly has to smarm all over Michelle and make suggestive sexual comments. Keeping an iron-fisted control over their children, even unto adulthood. Purposely limiting their children's opportunities in life by not allowing them to even consider going to a trade school or other higher education. Demonizing gays, lesbians and transgender people, and working to take away their rights. Making their older daughters raise the younger kids. All of this is horrible parenting, but it took the revelation of a sordid sexual abuse within the family to finally open some casual viewer's eyes to the fact that you DO NOT WANT TO DO WHAT THE DUGGAR PARENTS DO.

Emma j, I understand what you are saying. I just worry that the kids are going to internalize this as being all their fault. I would hope the show contid continue featuring the kids that are of age if that is what they want. There has to be a way of doing this without treating them like they are damaged and therefore are no longer role models with something to say. People's reactions can be just as damaging as the actual abuse.

[mpheels]

I expect to see a mostly positive People article in the next few weeks, that may or may not cover the few big announcements that were lined up for the next 3-6 months. Then we will see generic, nice social media posts from Jill and Jessa. Something along the lines of "thank you for all of your prayers and support over the past few weeks" - that can be interpreted by all facets of the audience and the general public in whatever way makes the audience feel best. They will continue to use social media for big announcements, but will distance themselves from their parents.

I can see Jill and Derick securing a TLC spin off of their life as missionaries, sort of like Part's Unknown or No Reservations, but with more Jesus. They might have occasional guest appearances from Duggar siblings, but no mention of Jim Bob, Michelle, or Josh.

I can't see Ben and Jessa with a spin off as they currently live/exist, but if they choose to do something interesting with their lives, it could work. Even something as simple as opening a small business on their own (for real) could be interesting. Or a Jinger and Jessa version of Kourtney/Khloe/Kim take Miami/New York. Jinger and Jessa take Nashville?

[SassyPants]

Emma j, I understand what you are saying. I just worry that the kids are going to internalize this as being all their fault. I would hope the show contid continue featuring the kids that are of age if that is what they want. There has to be a way of doing this without treating them like they are damaged and therefore are no longer role models with something to say. People's reactions can be just as damaging as the actual abuse.

What would those adult kids talk about? They have no real skills, limited knowledge on anything outside of what their parents have spoon fed them. What those kids all need is skills, education and introduction to the real world. In the real world, people who have no talents, skills or education are not generally put on TV and given large sums of money just for being.

Those kids, all of them, need to be treated and given opportunities to be successful individuals, just like all kids. They need to learn what being paid a fair wage for honest work is all about. They need to be given choices to get themselves up-to-speed for life outside the compound. Their parents, in all their BS wisdom, and Duggar time, failed all 19 of those kids. They each need to develop skills so that they can individually soar and should get every support available to do just that.

[anon710]

I

The receptionist is doing her job. And it's really unfair, since the people who could answer some of your questions are using her to shield them from any and all calls they don't want. So the receptionist gets the brunt of people's ire. I would suggest that anyone making calls to TLC, Discovery or anyone else connected with the show be as civil as you can to the person answering the phone. Believe me, they aren't getting paid enough for the crap they are taking since the scandal broke.

I absolutely wore my professional journalist hat.

[SassyPants]

My guess is that Derrick didn't appear because his day job? At any rate, he's going to need it now. I hope he and Jill move away from the family, figuratively if not literally. Of all the married kids, he and Jill have the best prospects because he's got a real degree and a real job.

My hopes for Ben is that he reassess his own prospects now that the show is over (I know it's not official yet but IMHO it's toast). He just graduated from CC which is good for him, maybe he will consider going on to get a four year degree.

This situation, as awful as it is, could be good for both because it forces them to assess their prospects and do something about them rather than relying on TLC money and their father in law.

And maybe, just maybe, reassess manageable family size, in order to best meet needs and protect all family members.

[vienna]

Replacing them with a new fundie family would probably do the trick. Shiny new object for the leghumpers.

Since the Duggars are the major income for TLC I think all they have been doing in the last days was trying desperatly to find a way HOW the show can continue. I was trying to find such a solution, but couln´t come up with any:

First: They have to adress the molestation somehow and the Duggars have to agree to the way TLC wants this handels (Maybe including apologies from Michell and Jim Bob - never gonna happen). Secondly: TMZ reported that TLC thinks about countinuing withour Josh. But I think thats not possible; What about Anna and the M Kids for example? Also I believe that the Duggars would not be available for a Show without Josh (as much as they want the money).

But I really believe they will try everything to keep the Show, but if they don´t find a way, we will probably end up with Specials but no official statement that they cancle the show. If they did not do it until now....

They might try a Special with the Duggar reactions on the molestation and depending on how the Viewers take this (Rates will be veeeeeery high) they will continue in a probably changed format if the People reactions is, that they now understand everything better and since the Girls are so brave and have forgiven their brother, we should do the same bla bla bullshit.

Hence, an all decisive soon to come Special is an option....

[lynnzie]

I've been a long time lurker, but have come out of hiding to point something out.

Obviously, whoever was able to obtain copies of the police report was either a victim, informant or someone with a lot of power. In order to file a FOIL request you need very specific information about the item you are asking for (dates of alleged abuse, victims names, dates of police contact etc.) Although some of this information was in Alice's post years ago, it would not be specific enough for a FOIL request.

I have two possible suspects in mind for leaking the information:

1) Amy Duggar's boyfriend Dillon: He was quick to post a response saying Amy was not abused and is not yet brainwashed or a fundie. He has nothing to lose and may actually want out of the limelight or be disgusted enough by Josh's actions to try to be the Knight in Shining armor that leaks the information.

2) Oprah-This is my first choice. She has all the information necessary to file a FOIL and may have even had a copy of the original report due to her closeness to the situation. She may have felt as if she laid back long enough and karma was not working quick enough. Especially given her past childhood abuse, her liberal political views, the fact that she is champion for gay rights. Josh's visibility in the fight against LGBT's just may have become too much for her to handle.

[SassyPants]

I've been a long time lurker, but have come out of hiding to point something out.

Obviously, whoever was able to obtain copies of the police report was either a victim, informant or someone with a lot of power. In order to file a FOIL request you need very specific information about the item you are asking for (dates of alleged abuse, victims names, dates of police contact etc.) Although some of this information was in Alice's post years ago, it would not be specific enough for a FOIL request.

I have two possible suspects in mind for leaking the information:

1) Amy Duggar's boyfriend Dillon: He was quick to post a response saying Amy was not abused and is not yet brainwashed or a fundie. He has nothing to lose and may actually want out of the limelight or be disgusted enough by Josh's actions to try to be the Knight in Shining armor that leaks the information.

2) Oprah-This is my first choice. She has all the information necessary to file a FOIL and may have even had a copy of the original report due to her closeness to the situation. She may have felt as if she laid back long enough and karma was not working quick enough. Especially given her past childhood abuse, her liberal political views, the fact that she is champion for gay rights. Josh's visibility in the fight against LGBT's just may have become too much for her to handle.

I think the timing is off for Oprah- I would have thought before M-1's birth would have been a more appropriate time for someone like Oprah.

[scarygirl]

What would those adult kids talk about? They have no real skills, limited knowledge on anything outside of what their parents have spoon fed them. What those kids all need is skills, education and introduction to the real world. In the real world, people who have no talents, skills or education are not generally put on TV and given large sums of money just for being.

Those kids, all of them, need to be treated and given opportunities to be successful individuals, just like all kids. They need to learn what being paid a fair wage for honest work is all about. They need to be given choices to get themselves up-to-speed for life outside the compound. Their parents, in all their BS wisdom, and Duggar time, failed all 19 of those kids. They each need to develop skills so that they can individually soar and should get every support available to do just that.

I agree with you. I just think there has to be a better way to end this without the innocents ones being made to feel like pariahs.

I would love nothing more than to see Jinger move to the big city and for all to pursue those first jobs and additional education.

[GeoBQn]

JOSH is still listed as a speaker at the Alive Christian Music Festival later this month, as of today: http://www.alive.org/speakers/

(along with Anna, and the other 2 youg Duggar couples)

If any of you feel like doing something proactive--and don't feel that it is appropriate for Josh to have paid speaking gigs at this time--consider contacting Alive: alivefest@alive.org or through https://twitter.com/alivefestival or their Facebook page.

The festival confirmed that the Duggars are still going to be speaking there, though they didn't confirm which Duggars specifically.

The family is still scheduled on June 19 at the Rocky Mountain Super Conference, hosted by Christian Home Educators of Colorado.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1420852751547247/

[SassyPants]

Freedom- that's what those adult kids need. To be free to make plans and live their own lives. JB should be forced to give back compensation for every hour those kids worked.

The younger children need real schooling and appropriate discipline and role models. JB and M need to get jobs, with health care insurance. GM Mary should be free to do whatever the hell she wants.

[DrMom68]

I wonder if it's a crew member who exposed them. Maybe rumors of Josh running for office spurred someone to let the cat out of the bag. I wouldn't put it past a Harpo employee either. Good for them.

[Letgo]

I've been a long time lurker, but have come out of hiding to point something out.

Obviously, whoever was able to obtain copies of the police report was either a victim, informant or someone with a lot of power. In order to file a FOIL request you need very specific information about the item you are asking for (dates of alleged abuse, victims names, dates of police contact etc.) Although some of this information was in Alice's post years ago, it would not be specific enough for a FOIL request.

I have two possible suspects in mind for leaking the information:

1) Amy Duggar's boyfriend Dillon: He was quick to post a response saying Amy was not abused and is not yet brainwashed or a fundie. He has nothing to lose and may actually want out of the limelight or be disgusted enough by Josh's actions to try to be the Knight in Shining armor that leaks the information.

2) Oprah-This is my first choice. She has all the information necessary to file a FOIL and may have even had a copy of the original report due to her closeness to the situation. She may have felt as if she laid back long enough and karma was not working quick enough. Especially given her past childhood abuse, her liberal political views, the fact that she is champion for gay rights. Josh's visibility in the fight against LGBT's just may have become too much for her to handle.

For what reason would either of your two choices do this? Why would Oprah have waited so long to do it? And why would Dillon want to expose Amy's relatives? I have a hard time seeing anyone close to the Duggar family doing this. I keep thinking it was some news person/agency, such as In Touch, Radaronline, etc. Someone heard specific rumors and narrowed it down, time wise. A reporter would have information and knowledge about the Freedom of Information law. It would never have occurred to me that a police report about sexual molestation in which all persons involved were juveniles could be released. But a journalist would know.

[lynnzie]

It may not be a coincidence that HARPO offices are closing in Chicago soon and there may be some layoffs. This was just announced about 8 weeks ago. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/o ... ios-778784

Is it possible that someone found the old info while packing up and decided to sell it? or a disgruntled executive who's lips are no longer required to be sealed?

[Letgo]

That's a good point. It could be "newly rediscovered" information, by someone on her staff. I just can't see Oprah herself doing it, especially now, after several years.