Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 5

[Nowyn]

Yes it is and don't need a Google machine for this information, thank you

I think that the source is Dr. Gene Abel's study (National Institute of Mental Health Study). At least he is said to be the original source of that fact. I think that it is from -85. I don't know how trusted the source that study is. His recidivism rates are way off compared to other studies. It seems also to be specific for pedophiles and not other types of offenders. Even though I'm not professional I would appreciate if you told me your source. I'd like to learn.

[hennypenny]

If you post it here I think we could make sense of it. I'm more interested in the recent campaign.

This is from 2014. You have to scroll down to find her disclosure. http://media.arkansasonline.com/news/do ... judges.pdf

[Four is Enough]

Just a view from the other side of the fence. My son molested (significantly) younger children, and was going to possibly have to register, at 15, as a sex offender. He did complete therapy over several years, both in community and in residence. During that time, he was to refer to his victims as "victim" rather than even using their names, which was completely taboo, for obvious reasons. The reason given me for the use of the word "victim" was that it was to cement in his mind that he had done something against the law, and he had, in fact, created a "victim".. of his crime.

When he wrote the (undelivered, it was believed that in his case it would not be necessary to deliver them) apology letters, (standard part of therapy, sometimes delivered, sometimes not) he was to in NO WAY refer to them as "victims", for fear that might trigger a response in them.

So the use of the word "victim" is still alive and well in some forms of therapy. From this vantage point, I think it is useful and efficacious. Just my two cents.

[latraviata]

I think that the source is Dr. Gene Abel's study (National Institute of Mental Health Study). At least he is said to be the original source of that fact. I think that it is from -85. I don't know how trusted the source that study is. His recidivism rates are way off compared to other studies. It seems also to be specific for pedophiles and not other types of offenders. Even though I'm not professional I would appreciate if you told me your source. I'd like to learn.

It is what it is, a study from 85 we learned a lot since then.

When I started here on FJ I was fairly open about my credentials and it backfired big time!

But since we are having this conversation, yes I was a practising child psychologist for many years, I have two PhDs and I am a university professor emeritus.

Shall I throw in my CV and a few of my studies and publications? After that we might discuss a DNA sample and a cavity search.

[CharlieInCharge]

Long time lurker, second time poster. Finally reached the end of this thread (for now) and while just about everything has been covered, I wanted to say thanks to everyone for posting. If FJ didn't exsist I don't know what I would be doing right now, but it would probably involve my hubby having to listen to be go off on the Duggars for hours. Having this space to read and share is a wonderful outlet, especially when dealing with an awful situation like this. I really hope something positive can come out of this even if it is not apparent yet what that might be.

[MidknytOwl]

It is what it is, a study from 85 we learned a lot since then.

When I started here on FJ I was fairly open about my credentials and it backfired big time!

But since we are having this conversation, yes I was a practising child psychologist for many years, I have two PhDs and I am a university professor emeritus.

Shall I throw in my CV and a few of my studies and publications? After that we might discuss a DNA sample and a cavity search.

I think the main problem here is you're expecting everyone to magically know your background. We weren't all on FJ when you joined, and even if people were, that was four years ago. Expecting everyone posting on this forum to have read your original credential stating and remember it is a little ridiculous.

Until nelliebelle1197 said something about you having credentials, I didn't know, and I imagine I'm not the only one. I highly doubt Jennifer Jupiter would have told you to google if you had included any smidge of your credentials in you saying you didn't have the same source.

We don't need a CV (or more sarcasm with the cavity search) to trust you have background knowledge, we need to be told you have background knowledge in the first place. We're not mind readers.

[Nowyn]

It is what it is, a study from 85 we learned a lot since then.

When I started here on FJ I was fairly open about my credentials and it backfired big time!

But since we are having this conversation, yes I was a practising child psychologist for many years, I have two PhDs and I am a university professor emeritus

Shall I throw in my CV and a few of my studies and publications? After that we might discuss a DNA sample and a cavity search.

I'm not trying to get you identity, CV or even your own studies. I was asking that. if you know a better study. I would be pointed towards it. I realize that the study I mentioned is older than I am and there have been major developments after that. I don't know if I wasn't clear originally as English isn't my first language or what, but I meant no harm.

[latraviata]

I'm not trying to get you identity, CV or even your own studies. I was asking that. if you know a better study. I would be pointed towards it. I realize that the study I mentioned is older than I am and there have been major developments after that. I don't know if I wasn't clear originally as English isn't my first language or what, but I meant no harm.

English isn't my first language.

[apple1]

Promise

OK. I haven't slammed you or the country of which you are a citizen. I don't think I have even been discussing back and forth with you, nor disagreeing with you. The statement I quoted above is quite rude.

Yes, I know this is FJ, and I am very familiar with FJ rules, and with the fact that posters can be rude. Posters can also be called out on their rudeness.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

English isn't my first language.

That's a cop out. Instead of saying "you're right, my mistake, I'll try to be more clear next time," you chose to put your mistake on someone else by claiming that your english is the problem.

Let me assure you, if you have the ability to use sarcasm in a foreign language, you have the ability to explain why you think someone's statistics are wrong.

[latraviata]

That's a cop out. Instead of saying "you're right, my mistake, I'll try to be more clear next time," you chose to put your mistake on someone else by claiming that your english is the problem.

Let me assure you, if you have the ability to use sarcasm in a foreign language, you have the ability to explain why you think someone's statistics are wrong.

READ for crying out loud! I responded to the comment of somebody who says English isn't my first language and I told her same here, English isn't my first language either.

Why do I bother....

[Idolatry]

TLC pulled my 19KAC on demand. Or maybe Comcast did. On-demand should definitely be available for the recent episodes.

Looks like they're still on TLC.com, but the Willis family is front page now. There's a helpful quiz about which Willis you are!

[justbecause]

Let's ease any tention.

Smilies ......

:cracking-up: :dance: :sick: :naughty: :shrug: :pink-shock: :mrgreen: :wink-kitty: :disgust: :doh: :shrug: :evil-eye: :pink-shock: :shock: :wink-penguin: :penguin-no: :mouse-shock: :cray-cray: :wtf: :popcorn2: :dead-horse: :cussing: :animals-dogrun: :banana-gotpics: :banana-stoner: :zombie:

[JenniferJuniper]

It is what it is, a study from 85 we learned a lot since then.

When I started here on FJ I was fairly open about my credentials and it backfired big time!

But since we are having this conversation, yes I was a practising child psychologist for many years, I have two PhDs and I am a university professor emeritus.

Shall I throw in my CV and a few of my studies and publications? After that we might discuss a DNA sample and a cavity search.

I've been around a long time too and I know you've claimed to be an expert in many things. Problem is, you don't seem to make much sense much of the time.

Tell us what we've learned since '85? What large studies can you cite? Anecdotal evidence counts for nothing in this discussion.

Here's Abel and Harlow from 2001. This is a large study.

childmolestationprevention.org/pdfs/study.pdf

[Howl]

The rawstory article someone just posted is brilliant,

rawstory.com/2015/05/heres-how-the-duggars-patriarchal-homeschool-world-teaches-kids-to-shame-sex-abuse-victims/

Goes beyond the sexual abuse aspects of Gothard and links it to Blanket training and the Pearls. We need more articles like this places where the masses will see it.

It point out how the culture would have affected the abuse, and responses to abuse, from the parents and from the girls themselves.

I keep imagining various journalists and others researching the Josh Duggar story, coming across the Gothard teachings on sexual abuse/incest and the Pearls' books for the first time, as the sheer awfulness of these appalling teachings dawns on them.

I hope more Gothard and Pearl exposés continue to be published as people come to realize what it is that the Duggars really believe about child rearing and what has influenced them.

Once this really gets out, stick a fork in the Duggars, they're done.

I'm speculating that the Duggars had Bill Gothard on speed dial as they were navigating dealing with Josh's abuse of his siblings.

[grandmadugger]

Unless it's an attorney they use, and I don't know who they do, I don't see any names on the list that is connected to the Duggars. I need to stop reading this stuff though, I'm starting to see names I know. :lol:

[eri]

I'm definitely in the camp of not speculating about which girls were involved or analyzing their behavior. I just want of offer another perspective.

I have exactly one memory of my dad doing something inappropriate. I have no idea if it actually happened or it's just a random something that caught in my brain. Just to add another opinion to the mix, the girls may (at this point) think of it as something that didn't even actually happen. A memory that is not reliable. They may be now forced to confront the truth.

Aww, but projecting onto Duggar child-adults is so fulfilling. How else can those FJers secretly make themselves feel better if they aren't accusing Duggar girls of being sad/depressed/smug as a result of an incident we are not even certain one of them experienced?

[littlesparklingflame]

I did my best to catch up with the thread today, I intrude to give a couple of thoughts that have come to my mind reading your posts.

On the subject of forgiveness: I agree that none of us knows or should be feel entitled to know how the girls feel/should feel about the experience or about their abuser. Yet I just would like to underline that forgiving- or not forgiving - is just one part of the process to cope with an abuse. Even if the girls sincerely felt forgiveness for what had been done to them, and that helped them to get through it, that could not by itself have made them elaborate the pain and trauma and the consequences of it. Have the girls been granted the opportunity to go through the healing process they needed? No-one knows for sure but I am very much afraid they have not.

On whether the Duggars should now go back to obscurity or JB and M hide somewhere far from the world, the hell, no! I disagree completely.

If they could go back to obscurity they would simply sweep everything under the rag again and more feelings of guilt would be produced on the kids, and who knows what would be of Josh...

I am afraid the only way for the girls and the whole family really to overcome this experience is for it to remain out in the open, and possibly, hopefully, in the hands of the proper authorities that can intervene, investigate, and get the girls and Josh proper counselling.

I understand this will be painful and shocking for the family, but it is the only way out I believe.

[hennypenny]

Unless it's an attorney they use, and I don't know who they do, I don't see any names on the list that is connected to the Duggars. I need to stop reading this stuff though, I'm starting to see names I know. :lol:

Well then.

Did you notice which attorneys refused to represent the duggars in the police report? That was interesting. Oh and while I'm on this thought, they eventually had to find an attorney, right?

[SassyPants]

Since the record is shredded, there is nothing for the authorities to investigate. In the eyes of the law, nothing happened.

Isn't it asinine? Josh has admitted to a crime, that legally does not exist.

The record is shredded, yet the world knows about and is judging (many are) an event that legally never happened.

[hennypenny]

Since the record is shredded, there is nothing for the authorities to investigate. In the eyes of the law, nothing happened.

Isn't it asinine? Josh has admitted to a crime, that legally does not exist.

The record is shredded, yet the world knows about and is judging (many are) an event that legally never happened.

I think the MOST telling thing about this whole case are the paragraphs on the last pages. Everyone is looking at the molestation paragraphs but no one is looking at the last part. It's really interesting.

[gustava]

Just a view from the other side of the fence. My son molested (significantly) younger children, and was going to possibly have to register, at 15, as a sex offender. He did complete therapy over several years, both in community and in residence. During that time, he was to refer to his victims as "victim" rather than even using their names, which was completely taboo, for obvious reasons. The reason given me for the use of the word "victim" was that it was to cement in his mind that he had done something against the law, and he had, in fact, created a "victim".. of his crime.

When he wrote the (undelivered, it was believed that in his case it would not be necessary to deliver them) apology letters, (standard part of therapy, sometimes delivered, sometimes not) he was to in NO WAY refer to them as "victims", for fear that might trigger a response in them.

So the use of the word "victim" is still alive and well in some forms of therapy. From this vantage point, I think it is useful and efficacious. Just my two cents.

I noted your location "Staring out of the abyss." I surmise that is how you must have felt when you learned about your son. While it is trite to say, "Thank you for sharing." I truly mean it.

[Palimpsest]

I have to love the Arkansas Times. Objective? Perhaps not. But I agree with their editorial choices.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/ar ... he-duggars

[VapingindaCity]

Did anyone see this?

A clip taken in 2008 from 19Kids where Josh makes a Joke about incest?

They needed a chaperone who was over 18 to see a Rated R movie (really?!) And he was like Jana & JD! Why not, lets make it a 2x date, we are from Arkansas!! Then he laughs . Fucking gross...

Makes me also wonder when JB gave him those book on his wedding day, he was saying "Oh I think I learned how it works from" ... JB interrupted "it's like Legos" .. where the fraq did u get any info about sex? All that porn u supposedly watched?!

God I dunno if I can even watch old episodes, cuz once Jill says shit oh my brothers like to control things ( reference to Jet Ski) all i will think is incestuous molester josh ::shudder :: rather thank yeah its nice to drive fast in a Jet Ski

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7435668? ... 6377905518

[gustava]

OK. I haven't slammed you or the country of which you are a citizen. I don't think I have even been discussing back and forth with you, nor disagreeing with you. The statement I quoted above is quite rude.

Yes, I know this is FJ, and I am very familiar with FJ rules, and with the fact that posters can be rude. Posters can also be called out on their rudeness.

Not sure why we're being so hard on apple1 since so many of us just assume we live

in god's greatest country on earth.

Whether apple was being cheeky or snarky, it doesn't seem to me to be worth piling on.