Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 5

[jinseng]

Ice been looking at the Duggars since they came on the scene, and a lifelong atheist since well before I could really articulate it

In any case, my father was a private investigator, and I have a hypothesis about the destruction of the police records.

There were almost certainly interview tapes in there that yes, they did not want the media to have, but more importantly, they do not want a motivated prosecutor to have. Because with the stuff in there, and once they inform the judge and jury about blanket training, treating the children as chattel, and the rest of the stuff that doesn't make TV, they would likely lose the children. This is a particular danger if they request and are granted a venue change to a non Bible Belt state, or at least out of Arkansas where they literally ruin people's lives who offend them and have the politicians in their back pocket. This is far more about protecting Mommy and Daddy than the boy, and of course everyone else is an afterthought.

This weekend has given me a glimmer of hope something may finally be done, but of course, breath holding not happening.

Yes its important to remember that the document that was leaked by InTouch Weekly simply summaried each interview... They are not the official transcripts. Where there are transcript summaries, there are transcripts. Where there are transcripts, there would be tape recordings. These would have been destroyed, along with God knows what else.

[watchdog]

Conservative Michael Reagan has been quite vocal on Facebook and Twitter the past few days in his opposition to how this whole thing was handled. He had particulary harsh words for Mike Huckabee. Some quotes:

Its not just Priests!Josh Duggar Molested Underage Girls as a Teen, He Admits Now http://t.co/BMGPMLmOTv ‪#‎Newsmax‬ via @Newsmax_Media

I will never support Mike Huckabee again in any endeavor.‪#‎Outraged‬ http://t.co/BOkysdHhWz

Please dont support Huckabee for President. http://t.co/BOkysdHhWz

‪#‎andcounting‬ Report: TLC Pulls '19 Kids and Counting' From TV Schedule Amid Josh Duggar Mole... http://t.co/pHUvTP0SGK via @theblaze

Trust me there will be more to the story..Kids just don't molest their sisters...There is a lot more..

Retweeted Bruce D Hendrix (@brucedhendrix):

.@ReaganWorld wonder if his view would change if one of his girls? User poll at @saeptavote Agree w Huckabee?

Voting: http://t.co/s3HOSeS1Qd

Retweeted Don Lambirth (@romeotrash):

@ReaganWorld I believe in forgiveness (though this is not mine to forgive) but calling it a "mistake" done by someone "young" is insane...

It tells you something about his decision making when he (Huckabee) comes out supporting a child molester.Its not a MISTAKE IT'S ABUSE.

Retweeted Boz Tchividjian (@BozT):

I grieve for all children who have been sexually victimized and then told that that Jesus demands them to forgive, forget and move on.

Retweeted JenHatmaker (@JenHatmaker):

So vital to distinguish "mistake" from "sexual abuse." Not the same crime or response. The church should NEVER cast the 2nd as the 1st.

Excellent. http://t.co/YylsRyBIcd

Just spoke to a friend who says the Christian community was aware of Josh Duggar as far back as http://t.co/otcdISaOOQ over Faith?

If I were Jim Bob Duggar I would be asking my friend the State Trooper if he ever showed Child Porn to anyone in my family.He is doing 56yrs

DID FRC & TLC ALSO KNOW? Online Commenter Warned About Josh Duggar Molestation Accusations 8 Years Ago http://t.co/W9xeZTINyi

Reagan comes from a background of CSA himself. (Warning: potentially trigger material)

cbn.com/700club/guests/interviews/Michael_Reagan102006.aspx

Didn't break most of the links since many have been linked from FJ already.

[morri]

http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2015/05/th ... lisms.html

interesting article on thetopic. it is interesting that it came out finally . all the rumours all theyears..

[freejoyannatoo]

Only just caught up with this story and like everyone else I'm shocked, disgusted and heartbroken for the girls. But, I'm noticing a theme developing which bothers me somewhat.

So here's the thing ...

People on this forum have spent years decrying and despising those who, we now know, have spoken the truth about what Josh did.

And now, when people who understand how someone like Josh would normally operate (sometimes from personal experience) say there may be more to this story, the response is to tell them to shut up because there isn't any evidence.

Well here's my contribution, from the standpoint of a former child counsellor.

No, there isn't any direct evidence (so far) beyond what we already know. However, there is plenty of indirect evidence. For example, if you take together Jessa saying that she's kissed her brothers; Jinger crying about how much Jessa's suffered; Jessa's apparent difficulty with intimacy, other than a full-on sexual kind; and Ben saying how sad he is about the burden she carries - this all adds up to a likely picture, in my view, of ongoing abuse through her early teenage years. The above is not a proportionate response to having been fondled once or perhaps twice at the age of ten when she slept - the likelihood in that case is that she would have sublimated the memory and have little conscious awareness of it now.

Of course I'm not for a moment suggesting that would be OK, or other than badly damaging. It's just that her behaviour and that of those around her suggests a different pattern of abuse - more ongoing and more in her conscious awareness. I think there's a lot of rage behind her sweet countenance.

The likelihood that absolutely everything Josh ever did to his sisters, and everyone else he ever touched, is contained in that police report is minimal in my view. Therefore it is entirely possible that he poses an ongoing threat. He needs and deserves proper professional help. While my sympathies are massively with the girls, I also feel sad that Josh failed to get the help he so clearly needed. Michelle and JB are scum, and the system that supports them is beyond contempt.

And if the Duggar line is "Well he only touched them when they were asleep, that can't have hurt them much and anyway Jesus has forgiven him" then that is terrible for his victims - but how much more terrible if, in fact, things were worse than that?

So to those who are suggesting there may be plenty more that we do not know about - I agree. I have no interest in speculating on who, where or when. But I think it's only reasonable to acknowledge that it is possible this is only the tip of the iceberg.

[onlysaneperson]

http://www.etonline.com/news/165072_jos ... ing_event/

They're reporting that TLC won't cancel the show, but they're looking at dropping Josh.

[Arose91]

I'm starting to wonder if TLC leaked the report as a way of throwing the Duggar's under the bus to make way for the Willis family.

[nastyhobbitses]

And if the Duggar line is "Well he only touched them when they were asleep, that can't have hurt them much and anyway Jesus has forgiven him" then that is terrible for his victims - but how much more terrible if, in fact, things were worse than that?

If that is the Duggar line, I am even more enraged about this situation. Because I have been fondled in my sleep. More than once by a boyfriend I have mentioned before, once by a guy at a party when I was extremely drunk and had passed out. I had no bruises or cuts from those encounters, but the shame, fear, disgust, and anger I felt when I opened my eyes and saw/felt a man taking my top off, or felt a man I thought respected and loved me basically slobbering all over my face and feeling me up when I was asleep, hurt more than any punch or slap they could have landed on me.

Duggar girls, if you find this site, know that you're not alone. None of this was your fault. No one has any right to hurt you. There are people out there who care about you, and know that you're more than The Girls Who Got Molested. I can't say I totally know what you went through, seeing as I was an adult when my assaults occurred, but I can tell you that even though the emotional scars remain, there is hope. There is an After This when things will be better. I hope you've either found your After This, or are actively seeking it.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I really wonder how Michelle could justify continuing to have babies knowing that Josh had committed this serious crime. She already neglected to protect her daughters and failed parenting Josh properly yet she felt called to have more children? She couldn't even take care of the ones she had. Then JB & Michelle thrust these kids into the spotlight right after such a family tragedy? How could any of these kids have healed properly? Yet Jim Bob and Michelle proclaimed to have parenting down to a T and all the advice... How could they go on to all of these speaking engagements, smiling and dishing out the parenting and family advice full well knowing that they failed their children? That is such twisted, disgusting fraud...

Because Josh found Jesus again. And everything is better when someone finds Jesus.

[Meghann]

http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html

interesting article on thetopic. it is interesting that it came out finally . all the rumours all theyears..

Thanks for sharing!!

[Swamptribe]

GMA is reporting that there are several online petitions to cancel the show.

[busybusyscissors]

I posted this earlier, but wanted to post it again because of the discussion about how devious and manipulative the Duggars are. In addition to the entire Gothard system.

Long time lurker here. Like most of you, I have been disturbed by Michelle's robocall about transgenders in the bathroom. As I sat here reading this morning, it came to me. I don't think she means that all transgender people are in fact pedophiles. I think she was against the law because of the possibility of pedophiles using the access to women's bathroom as an opportunity. They aren't transgender in any way, but they will be for the chance to have access to young girls. It's a convoluted idea, but it shows how much experience she has with lies, manipulation, devious plans, gaslighting, you name it. Most of us would never dream up a plan so complex as to dress up as a woman just for the opportunity to be around young girls. It seems as though Michelle is used to such manipulations, twisted thoughts and perverse ideas. If this is actually her thought process, how disturbing.

[HarleyQuinn]

My personal favorite is twatwaffle. Just sayin.

This thread is moving so fast. I wish I could find quoted posts easier.

Anyways, no. I love the word "twat" and I think it's appropriate for Jessica Seewald.

To stay on topic.That Twitter post from Ben. If Jessa did tell him in a conversation that was monitored by her parents, that just makes me sick to my stomach. When I told my husband what happened to me for example, It was years after we dated and were alone. I couldn't imagine Boob and Mullet staring at Jessa when she was telling Ben this, and probably nodding to her when she said the coached lines. :wtf:

[jinseng]

Only just caught up with this story and like everyone else I'm shocked, disgusted and heartbroken for the girls. But, I'm noticing a theme developing which bothers me somewhat.

So here's the thing ...

People on this forum have spent years decrying and despising those who, we now know, have spoken the truth about what Josh did.

And now, when people who understand how someone like Josh would normally operate (sometimes from personal experience) say there may be more to this story, the response is to tell them to shut up because there isn't any evidence.

Well here's my contribution, from the standpoint of a former child counsellor.

No, there isn't any direct evidence (so far) beyond what we already know. However, there is plenty of indirect evidence. For example, if you take together Jessa saying that she's kissed her brothers; Jinger crying about how much Jessa's suffered; Jessa's apparent difficulty with intimacy, other than a full-on sexual kind; and Ben saying how sad he is about the burden she carries - this all adds up to a likely picture, in my view, of ongoing abuse through her early teenage years. The above is not a proportionate response to having been fondled once or perhaps twice at the age of ten when she slept - the likelihood in that case is that she would have sublimated the memory and have little conscious awareness of it now.

Of course I'm not for a moment suggesting that would be OK, or other than badly damaging. It's just that her behaviour and that of those around her suggests a different pattern of abuse - more ongoing and more in her conscious awareness. I think there's a lot of rage behind her sweet countenance.

The likelihood that absolutely everything Josh ever did to his sisters, and everyone else he ever touched, is contained in that police report is minimal in my view. Therefore it is entirely possible that he poses an ongoing threat. He needs and deserves proper professional help. While my sympathies are massively with the girls, I also feel sad that Josh failed to get the help he so clearly needed. Michelle and JB are scum, and the system that supports them is beyond contempt.

And if the Duggar line is "Well he only touched them when they were asleep, that can't have hurt them much and anyway Jesus has forgiven him" then that is terrible for his victims - but how much more terrible if, in fact, things were worse than that?

So to those who are suggesting there may be plenty more that we do not know about - I agree. I have no interest in speculating on who, where or when. But I think it's only reasonable to acknowledge that it is possible this is only the tip of the iceberg.

I totally agree. The circumstances involving the sudden downfall of the Duggar's squeaky-clean image right now is so inconceivable to me, I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe. On the one hand, I am in total shock, but if you allow yourself to muse on this situation for a moment, things do seem to make some sense. Honestly I think each individual child has a good heart, but there have been some cracks in their otherwise untarnished image...I used to feel like... come on now... if this family is as freakin perfect as they seem to be, then how come:

- Josh has become increasingly overweight despite his motivation to stay in shape, and has a very self-depricating sense of humour. He definitely binges on fast food.

- Jinger has lost an incredible amount of weight, and hides behind layers of modest clothing (clear as day she has an eating disorder IMO)

- Jessa and Jana are also quite preoccupied with their weight (attending weight watchers, arguing with Ben about being fat)

- Jessa acted out as a child to get the attention of Jana and her parents, and today struggles to express emotion and love, and seems quite angry inside, and

- Jill is very defensive about saving face and towing the family line, often interrupting people who do not say the right thing, suspected post-natal depression (?), she seems quite unhappy since that nightmare birth

- Jana is clearly depressed (you can see it in her face). Her over-the-top breakdown about the jewellery box, her pinterest contains so many scripture verses that allude to her depression, and trying to focus on Gods plan and will for her life

[jinseng]

This thread is moving so fast. I wish I could find quoted posts easier.

Anyways, no. I love the word "twat" and I think it's appropriate for Jessica Seewald.

To stay on topic.That Twitter post from Ben. If Jessa did tell him in a conversation that was monitored by her parents, that just makes me sick to my stomach. When I told my husband what happened to me for example, It was years after we dated and were alone. I couldn't imagine Boob and Mullet staring at Jessa when she was telling Ben this, and probably nodding to her when she said the coached lines. :wtf:

i imagine she told him with jinger as the chaperone... they all shared such a raw moment together at the rehearsal dinner, after jinger tried to speak but broke down crying, and the three of them kinda shared a knowing hug. i felt ben knew of their struggles and close bond.

[onlysaneperson]

Thought I'd leave this here. Jessa Duggar's FIL has posted an essay in support of the Duggar family: http://time.com/3895845/duggar-josh-mol ... l-seewald/

[Snarkle Motion]

Again, don't know if this has been discussed before? Comments from Britbrit in what is dated as 2009 on http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2009/10/0 ... has-begun/

britbrit says:

October 9, 2009 at 2:27 pm

Now let me play devils advocate. I live in Springdale, AR about twenty minuses from the Duggars, and drive by their house often as it is on the way to my grandparents house. I have never had an issue with the amount of kids they have. I did have issue with him running for election pushing his crazy strict biblical morals on me by use of flyers and phone calls. But things are not as they seem. Word around town is and has been for a very long time that Josh Duggar molested at least one of his younger brothers. Because Jim Bob has some clout in Washington County, it was all very hush hush and handled in family court. However, the boys all continued to sleep in one room and no counseling was given to the victims. This I do take issue with. I have never brought this up before because most posts about the Duggars refer to the family as a whole and not Josh himself.

britbrit says:

October 9, 2009 at 7:05 pm

wow that is offensive in so many ways. the molestation occurred when josh was twelve and to say that he did it because he was kept under lock and key is just sickening to me. i was raised mormon and had many friends raised under ‘lock and key’ and none of them molested their siblings. so are you saying that the molestation was justified because he couldn’t have a sexual experience at age twelve? if so then you are one sick, ignorant bastard.

britbrit says:

October 11, 2009 at 11:17 am

I heard about it a long time ago from a friend i have in law enforcement who works for the Washington County court. I just heard that it happened and there was a huge cover up because of Jim Bobs political status. (He was on city council or something like that when the incident happened). I believe Josh was 12-14 when it happened so it’s now long covered up and I would not be surprised if all court documents pertaining to the case have been destroyed. I just asked my lil sister (shes 23) and she said she has heard a similar story but from the cousin of the Duggars who is often on the TLC show, she was a classmate and friend of my sister.

So those are the comments. I want to keep in mind I don't know if they are true and it could be confusion about the rumor but I know that I read at least one other commenter before the story broke stating that one of the victims (survivors of abuse?) was male. I'm still searching for the other comment since I can't remember what site but I distinctly remember them stating there were both male and female victims but being much more horrified about the idea of one of them being a BOY as if that made it much worse than the abuse that occurred to girls (which granted in fundie land probably is considered way worse...).

No, this isn't direct evidence of me knowing something but I point this out because I do recall several other "insider" comments that perhaps could have been rumor mongering but on the other hand could have been telling the truth. I was hoping that someone else may have remembered these or could help in internet sleuthing? I say this not to out more victims but in case there is reason to believe the abuse was more extensive based on past comments of the rumors since we've seen commenters claiming inside info can very much be spot on.

[Arrowoftruth]

Again, don't know if this has been discussed before? Comments from Britbrit in what is dated as 2009 on http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2009/10/0 ... has-begun/

britbrit says:

October 9, 2009 at 2:27 pm

Now let me play devils advocate. I live in Springdale, AR about twenty minuses from the Duggars, and drive by their house often as it is on the way to my grandparents house. I have never had an issue with the amount of kids they have. I did have issue with him running for election pushing his crazy strict biblical morals on me by use of flyers and phone calls. But things are not as they seem. Word around town is and has been for a very long time that Josh Duggar molested at least one of his younger brothers. Because Jim Bob has some clout in Washington County, it was all very hush hush and handled in family court. However, the boys all continued to sleep in one room and no counseling was given to the victims. This I do take issue with. I have never brought this up before because most posts about the Duggars refer to the family as a whole and not Josh himself.

britbrit says:

October 9, 2009 at 7:05 pm

wow that is offensive in so many ways. the molestation occurred when josh was twelve and to say that he did it because he was kept under lock and key is just sickening to me. i was raised mormon and had many friends raised under ‘lock and key’ and none of them molested their siblings. so are you saying that the molestation was justified because he couldn’t have a sexual experience at age twelve? if so then you are one sick, ignorant bastard.

britbrit says:

October 11, 2009 at 11:17 am

I heard about it a long time ago from a friend i have in law enforcement who works for the Washington County court. I just heard that it happened and there was a huge cover up because of Jim Bobs political status. (He was on city council or something like that when the incident happened). I believe Josh was 12-14 when it happened so it’s now long covered up and I would not be surprised if all court documents pertaining to the case have been destroyed. I just asked my lil sister (shes 23) and she said she has heard a similar story but from the cousin of the Duggars who is often on the TLC show, she was a classmate and friend of my sister.

So those are the comments. I want to keep in mind I don't know if they are true and it could be confusion about the rumor but I know that I read at least one other commenter before the story broke stating that one of the victims (survivors of abuse?) was male. I'm still searching for the other comment since I can't remember what site but I distinctly remember them stating there were both male and female victims but being much more horrified about the idea of one of them being a BOY as if that made it much worse than the abuse that occurred to girls (which granted in fundie land probably is considered way worse...).

No, this isn't direct evidence of me knowing something but I point this out because I do recall several other "insider" comments that perhaps could have been rumor mongering but on the other hand could have been telling the truth. I was hoping that someone else may have remembered these or could help in internet sleuthing? I say this not to out more victims but in case there is reason to believe the abuse was more extensive based on past comments of the rumors since we've seen commenters claiming inside info can very much be spot on.

Oh my god. I'm sure if this got out to in touch the leghumpers would finally be appalled.

[Alye]

Oh my god. I'm sure if this got out to in touch the leghumpers would finally be appalled.

If there is any truth to this they will never admit it. They will have been working hard to bury any evidence since this story broke.

I hope it's not and this was just a case of Chinese Whispers.

[lascuba]

Only just caught up with this story and like everyone else I'm shocked, disgusted and heartbroken for the girls. But, I'm noticing a theme developing which bothers me somewhat.

So here's the thing ...

People on this forum have spent years decrying and despising those who, we now know, have spoken the truth about what Josh did.

And now, when people who understand how someone like Josh would normally operate (sometimes from personal experience) say there may be more to this story, the response is to tell them to shut up because there isn't any evidence.

Well here's my contribution, from the standpoint of a former child counsellor.

No, there isn't any direct evidence (so far) beyond what we already know. However, there is plenty of indirect evidence. For example, if you take together Jessa saying that she's kissed her brothers; Jinger crying about how much Jessa's suffered; Jessa's apparent difficulty with intimacy, other than a full-on sexual kind; and Ben saying how sad he is about the burden she carries - this all adds up to a likely picture, in my view, of ongoing abuse through her early teenage years. The above is not a proportionate response to having been fondled once or perhaps twice at the age of ten when she slept - the likelihood in that case is that she would have sublimated the memory and have little conscious awareness of it now.

Of course I'm not for a moment suggesting that would be OK, or other than badly damaging. It's just that her behaviour and that of those around her suggests a different pattern of abuse - more ongoing and more in her conscious awareness. I think there's a lot of rage behind her sweet countenance.

The likelihood that absolutely everything Josh ever did to his sisters, and everyone else he ever touched, is contained in that police report is minimal in my view. Therefore it is entirely possible that he poses an ongoing threat. He needs and deserves proper professional help. While my sympathies are massively with the girls, I also feel sad that Josh failed to get the help he so clearly needed. Michelle and JB are scum, and the system that supports them is beyond contempt.

And if the Duggar line is "Well he only touched them when they were asleep, that can't have hurt them much and anyway Jesus has forgiven him" then that is terrible for his victims - but how much more terrible if, in fact, things were worse than that?

So to those who are suggesting there may be plenty more that we do not know about - I agree. I have no interest in speculating on who, where or when. But I think it's only reasonable to acknowledge that it is possible this is only the tip of the iceberg.

First, LOL at Jessa having a "sweet countenance."

Sorry, I had to. :) Now that that's out of the way, I do think there's an unfortunate tendency here to over analyze every little thing the Duggars do, especially now after the molestation rumors have been confirmed. The speculation that Jessa and Jill were "forced" to wear something other than pure white for their weddings is the most out-there example. And I'm a bit squicked at the idea that any variations in personality must be a sign of on-going abuse. Jessa's bitchiness could very well be that's she just a bitchy person. Plenty of us are without ever having been abused. Growing up in a "perfect" environment doesn't mean everyone having the same "ideal" personality, and saying that Jessa's strong personality and Jill relentless perkiness must have been caused by whatever abuse they suffered takes away their agency in a way that keeps them perpetually victimized.

That said, I agree that Josh's abuse happened more times and for a longer period of time that what has been reported...it just defies common sense to believe that he would stop on his own when his parents waited so long to tell anyone (church officials don't really count for much, but it's SOMETHING, and more than a lot of secular people would do in this situation), and when he never received any real counseling. I do think it's a positive sign that at least some of the girls were quick to tell JB and Michelle when it happened--that tells me that he was limited in what he could do, because the girls weren't too scared to tell their parents what was going on.

[nelliebelle1197]

If that is the Duggar line, I am even more enraged about this situation. Because I have been fondled in my sleep. More than once by a boyfriend I have mentioned before, once by a guy at a party when I was extremely drunk and had passed out. I had no bruises or cuts from those encounters, but the shame, fear, disgust, and anger I felt when I opened my eyes and saw/felt a man taking my top off, or felt a man I thought respected and loved me basically slobbering all over my face and feeling me up when I was asleep, hurt more than any punch or slap they could have landed on me.

Duggar girls, if you find this site, know that you're not alone. None of this was your fault. No one has any right to hurt you. There are people out there who care about you, and know that you're more than The Girls Who Got Molested. I can't say I totally know what you went through, seeing as I was an adult when my assaults occurred, but I can tell you that even though the emotional scars remain, there is hope. There is an After This when things will be better. I hope you've either found your After This, or are actively seeking it.

It is not. That is something that some one is speculating.

[Nowyn]

Only just caught up with this story and like everyone else I'm shocked, disgusted and heartbroken for the girls. But, I'm noticing a theme developing which bothers me somewhat.

So here's the thing ...

People on this forum have spent years decrying and despising those who, we now know, have spoken the truth about what Josh did.

And now, when people who understand how someone like Josh would normally operate (sometimes from personal experience) say there may be more to this story, the response is to tell them to shut up because there isn't any evidence.

Well here's my contribution, from the standpoint of a former child counsellor.

No, there isn't any direct evidence (so far) beyond what we already know. However, there is plenty of indirect evidence. For example, if you take together Jessa saying that she's kissed her brothers; Jinger crying about how much Jessa's suffered; Jessa's apparent difficulty with intimacy, other than a full-on sexual kind; and Ben saying how sad he is about the burden she carries - this all adds up to a likely picture, in my view, of ongoing abuse through her early teenage years. The above is not a proportionate response to having been fondled once or perhaps twice at the age of ten when she slept - the likelihood in that case is that she would have sublimated the memory and have little conscious awareness of it now.

Of course I'm not for a moment suggesting that would be OK, or other than badly damaging. It's just that her behaviour and that of those around her suggests a different pattern of abuse - more ongoing and more in her conscious awareness. I think there's a lot of rage behind her sweet countenance.

The likelihood that absolutely everything Josh ever did to his sisters, and everyone else he ever touched, is contained in that police report is minimal in my view. Therefore it is entirely possible that he poses an ongoing threat. He needs and deserves proper professional help. While my sympathies are massively with the girls, I also feel sad that Josh failed to get the help he so clearly needed. Michelle and JB are scum, and the system that supports them is beyond contempt.

And if the Duggar line is "Well he only touched them when they were asleep, that can't have hurt them much and anyway Jesus has forgiven him" then that is terrible for his victims - but how much more terrible if, in fact, things were worse than that?

So to those who are suggesting there may be plenty more that we do not know about - I agree. I have no interest in speculating on who, where or when. But I think it's only reasonable to acknowledge that it is possible this is only the tip of the iceberg.

I think this is the thing I disagree. None of us knows what kind of someone Josh is. We have very limited info. The only thing we know is what was in the report. Child molestation is not explained only one way. There are many reasons why a person would do so. So to say we know how someone like Josh operates is just not possible. No one is saying there isn't any risk. What we are saying is that we don't know enough to make any predictions. As predicting Josh to have reoffended or that he will do so, can harm if we are wrong, we shouldn't do so. That speculation won't chance anything. We can speculate until cows come home, but it won't make CPS or police to do anything.

Also, that indirect evidence isn't really definitive. With all the hyperbole, woe is me things they have said there are million different ways to explain those incidences.

There seem to be a few misunderstandings going on this board at the moment. One of them is that people who are trying to say don't speculate about some things are saying that there isn't possibility that Josh has done those things. We are saying that speculation won't do any good, is purely speculation because we don't know enough to have informed opinion and can do a lot of harm.

I think with all these misunderstandings, maybe we should wait a minute before we get defensive. I think many of us are having pretty strong feelings about this. And as such we react more strongly.

latraviata, just for a record. I didn't ask you source because I don't believe you. I did so to get more information for myself. I also didn't give the source for that tidbit because I was thinking Josh is a pedophile. I actually agree with you. I just knew the source.

And for person who said (sorry, I couldn't find who ou are) that if a person can use sarcasm in foreign language that person can communicate well enough in that language to not use it as excuse for misunderstandings, I have to disagree with you. I have studied English for a few decades and can use sarcasm easily. But when there is misunderstanding I never know if it's because because I just wasn'tclear enough, or if it's because English is not my first language.

[nelliebelle1197]

Oh my god. I'm sure if this got out to in touch the leghumpers would finally be appalled.

Honestly, if WHAT got out? There is no way to know if this is made up, exaggerations of Alice's rumors, gossip distorted from the original story or what. I think repeating this sort of stuff is harmful. Most commentators claiming inside info are making it up. Just because there is one in a million that is true, that does not mean every one is true.

It's just like lensing everything the Duggar women do through the filter of abuse. It's seeing things that are likely not there just because that is how you want to see them. The groping may have had zero impact on their lives. You have no idea.

Frankly, in the IBLP world, I think Josh would have faced real punishment if he had touched a boy. I don't think for a second he would have been protected. He would have been sent away to Jesus camp until he was 73.

[VelociRapture]

Just a general comment to everyone (No, I'm not a Helpmeet but I do enjoy posting here and want to see the community flourish):

- Just want to remind everyone to keep being cautious about the speculation. The situation is terrible enough as it is, but we don't want to make it worse by having the media pick something up as fact when we have no evidence to back it up. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the possibilities that something more happened, it just means think carefully before posting.

- Also, please keep in mind that we really don't know how these young women may be reacting to all this at the moment. Based off what we know about their culture, they may have honestly been able to put this behind them years ago. Its also possible that they don't view their parents' actions the way that we do - to them, their parents may have acted reasonably and responsibly. So please just keep that in mind if you comment about this story on other sites - keep your comments focused on the victims and supportive. Don't bash the parents or Josh too much. It's counterproductive.

- To those survivors of sexual assaults who have shared their stories, you have my utmost sympathy and respect. It takes a great deal of strength and courage to make it through something like that and be able to share it (even anonymously online). Please remember that all survivors will react to their assaults in different ways; just because you reacted a certain way doesn't mean that Josh's victims will as well.

- Jessica Seewald is a minor and has no role in all this. Yes, she should have used better judgement when posting and should have made her accounts private. . . but she is a teenager and as we all know they aren't always as careful about social media as we would hope. Please don't use vulgar terms to refer to her. Her parents are fair game because they allowed their family to enter into the spotlight.

- Please remember to be respectful of the victim's in all of this. They did not ask for any of this to happen and did not ask for the media to find out about it. Their privacy has been seriously compromised, mostly because the person who redacted the reports screwed up majorly by not blacking out identifying information. We know most of the victims, but I feel its not really fair to speculate about how the abuse must have affected them or caused them to act certain ways.

- I want to remind people to be somewhat respectful of Josh as well. If the reports are accurate then he went and asked his parents for help - they had a responsibility to get him help and maybe he was offered real counseling at the time the reports were taken. We can't know for sure. What we can know is that his parents failed him just as much as they failed his victims by not immediately removing him from the situation. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it does add an additional layer of complexity and sympathy.

- Be polite and listen to other posters. There are many posters on here who have been assaulted themselves or who have worked with survivors/offenders of this sort of crime. They deserve to share about personal or professional experiences they have had with this sort of situation without being overlooked, ignored, or told to go away. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean their points are invalid.

Finally, if you want to do something to help then please consider one of the following options:

- Donate money or time to a charity that helps abused women and children.

- Sign a petition to get the show cancelled.

- Send messages to the show's sponsors asking them to stop advertising during episodes of the show.

- Boycott TLC or the advertisers.

[justbecause]

I kind of agree with you on certain points however I think Michelle does what a lot of women do and that is just let the man think they are in charge and go behind their back to get what they want and.Michelle can do this because she is smarter than him.

That is not to say however that Michelle wasn't converted or brainwashed or charmed or whatever you want to call it and now believes much of what Jim Bob wanted her to believe.

I do think she manipulates certain aspects of his beliefs for her benefit. It is better to have children learn different things because then she can assign it jurisdictions and she doesn't have to do the work. But they shouldn't stray from the goal of having a dozen kids just because they can drive a car. That sort of thing.

She also tends to reign Jim Bob in when he goes off message.

Your examples are why I think she smarter.than Jim Bob but I still believe she worships him as headship because he wants it, it makes him feel powerful, and she gets what.she wants.from it.

Its a very codependent relationship.

I agree with a lot of this. Michelle knows how to work within the constraints of her relationship.

Many people are intelligent or unintelligent. Although intelligence matters, I still believe that common sense gets people farther (for the most part) than intelligence. Not that they have that, I was just talking about intelligence vs common sense.

[nelliebelle1197]

Just a general comment to everyone (No, I'm not a Helpmeet but I do enjoy posting here and want to see the community flourish):

- Just want to remind everyone to keep being cautious about the speculation. The situation is terrible enough as it is, but we don't want to make it worse by having the media pick something up as fact when we have no evidence to back it up. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the possibilities that something more happened, it just means think carefully before posting.

- Also, please keep in mind that we really don't know how these young women may be reacting to all this at the moment. Based off what we know about their culture, they may have honestly been able to put this behind them years ago. Its also possible that they don't view their parents' actions the way that we do - to them, their parents may have acted reasonably and responsibly. So please just keep that in mind if you comment about this story on other sites - keep your comments focused on the victims and supportive. Don't bash the parents or Josh too much. It's counterproductive.

- To those survivors of sexual assaults who have shared their stories, you have my utmost sympathy and respect. It takes a great deal of strength and courage to make it through something like that and be able to share it (even anonymously online). Please remember that all survivors will react to their assaults in different ways; just because you reacted a certain way doesn't mean that Josh's victims will as well.

- Jessica Seewald is a minor and has no role in all this. Yes, she should have used better judgement when posting and should have made her accounts private. . . but she is a teenager and as we all know they aren't always as careful about social media as we would hope. Please don't use vulgar terms to refer to her. Her parents are fair game because they allowed their family to enter into the spotlight.

- Please remember to be respectful of the victim's in all of this. They did not ask for any of this to happen and did not ask for the media to find out about it. Their privacy has been seriously compromised, mostly because the person who redacted the reports screwed up majorly by not blacking out identifying information. We know most of the victims, but I feel its not really fair to speculate about how the abuse must have affected them or caused them to act certain ways.

- I want to remind people to be somewhat respectful of Josh as well. If the reports are accurate then he went and asked his parents for help - they had a responsibility to get him help and maybe he was offered real counseling at the time the reports were taken. We can't know for sure. What we can know is that his parents failed him just as much as they failed his victims by not immediately removing him from the situation. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it does add an additional layer of complexity and sympathy.

- Be polite and listen to other posters. There are many posters on here who have been assaulted themselves or who have worked with survivors/offenders of this sort of crime. They deserve to share about personal or professional experiences they have had with this sort of situation without being overlooked, ignored, or told to go away. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean their points are invalid.

Finally, if you want to do something to help then please consider one of the following options:

- Donate money or time to a charity that helps abused women and children.

- Sign a petition to get the show cancelled.

- Send messages to the show's sponsors asking them to stop advertising during episodes of the show.

- Boycott TLC or the advertisers.

I knew I liked you a lot.