Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 5

[hennypenny]

You know what I'm completely fascinated with is the complete and utter cover up in '07, the destruction of records (if you think that police report is all there's to it, think again), the judge in the pocket of huckleberry, the Arkansas Times article (that was posted back several pages ago), and the last couple of pages of the report (where it talks about the impending case and lawyers who would not represent Josh and family). And who was their lawyer after all? Is he/she in huckleberry's pocket. If some investigative reporter started to find the paper/money trail of all of the cover ups...it would be a considerabley sensational story. More so that the actual abuse.

Huckelberry is slimey and I wish that mothereffer would be found out for what he is.

[SassyPants]

I think this was especially true as the show went on. They started to dress more maintream and eased up on the fire and brimstone stuff, although I guarantee they still preached it to their kids. I think they saw the show as a chance to hook more people into Gothard's cult. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I found out he advised them to tone it down on tv so as to draw in more converts and not alert those who "wouldn't understand" just like he used to tell them at seminars not to lend out the material he handed out to others "who wouldn't understand". This was their marketing/advertising for the cult and I will bet they have converted more followers who are charmed by the "old fashioned values of family and faith" that the Duggars put forth.

I agree.

In 2003-2004, I went through a rough patch with one of my teens. At that time, I remember hearing about the Duggars- lots of kids, old fashioned values and I thought about how it might be easier than what I was dealing with...little did I know.

[halcionne]

I would like to add two thinks to the discussion (even if they are a Little of Topic)

1. Maybe I overlooked the post (sorry if it has already been postet) but Ben had something to say:

Accoring to pickles, Ben postes the following on his instagram shorty after he began courting Jessa: "When someone who means everything to you has a heavy burden to bear and you wish with all your heart you could step in and beat it for her."

I thinks that´s interesting

2. On how TLC will finally react:

Since the Duggars are the major income for TLC I think all they have been doing in the last days was trying desperatly to find a way HOW the show can continue. I was trying to find such a solution, but couln´t come up with any:

First: They have to adress the molestation somehow and the Duggars have to agree to the way TLC wants this handels (Maybe including apologies from Michell and Jim Bob - never gonna happen). Secondly: TMZ reported that TLC thinks about countinuing withour Josh. But I think thats not possible; What about Anna and the M Kids for example? Also I believe that the Duggars would not be available for a Show without Josh (as much as they want the money).

But I really believe they will try everything to keep the Show, but if they don´t find a way, we will probably end up with Specials but no official statement that they cancle the show. If they did not do it until now....

They might try a Special with the Duggar reactions on the molestation and depending on how the Viewers take this (Rates will be veeeeeery high) they will continue in a probably changed format if the People reactions is, that they now understand everything better and since the Girls are so brave and have forgiven their brother, we should do the same bla bla bullshit.

Hence, an all decisive soon to come Special is an option....

3. In reagard of my former poster: I really think the Duggars new this would come out a Little bit (liek a few days) before InTouch released it. Maybe even when the "Diggin in" Episode has been filmed?

I don't think anyone in the television industry has enough tact and compassion to accomplish number two, except maybe Oprah. And OWN is a Discovery network, iirc. I would like to think that Oprah wouldn't go there either, unless she was convinced that the girls wouldn't be harmed further by such a venture, but who knows.

[mebeforee]

I think the problem that people have is more with the " :popcorn2: " attitude that a lot of posters here and elsewhere seem to have about this event. It's certainly significant news but the barely hidden glee people seem to have at watching the family be taken down is pretty gross considering the circumstances of the abuse.

[ColeMarie86]

I posted this in the General Discussion (wasn't sure where to put it), but it's been ignored. I thought I'd post here:

I've been shocked the last few days with the Josh scandal, but now that I think back through the timeline, something else weird happened in the last few weeks that I didn't see FJ mention.

I remember that around the end of April (22nd?) I read somewhere on here that somebody said the producer of 19 KAC didn't like the Duggars on her Twitter, so I looked her up. I found a lot of Duggar hate comments, but I wasn't sure if it was the same woman. Fast forward to around the season finale. I caught the last half of a Behind the Scenes Duggar show that I didn't know was airing, and low and behold, there is producer Courtney Enlow saying all NICE things about the Duggars. I thought it was odd, so I looked up her Twitter again and found it was deleted by that night. Then, after this, the "Sin in the Camp" truth came out.

Any thoughts? Was it the same woman? If it was, could this (bad comments, nice comments, twitter deleted, then scandal) be related? Could it just be PR?

In addition to the above, I found this which I think is written by the same Courtney:

pajiba.com/think_pieces/the-duggars-unspeakable-horror-show.php

Seriously, any thoughts about this woman and her recent love/hate actions?

So yeah, if that is the same producer, Courtney Enlow, then that's her internet opinion about the family and the show.

[sense and nonsense]

I totally agree. The circumstances involving the sudden downfall of the Duggar's squeaky-clean image right now is so inconceivable to me, I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe. On the one hand, I am in total shock, but if you allow yourself to muse on this situation for a moment, things do seem to make some sense. Honestly I think each individual child has a good heart, but there have been some cracks in their otherwise untarnished image...I used to feel like... come on now... if this family is as freakin perfect as they seem to be, then how come:

- Josh has become increasingly overweight despite his motivation to stay in shape, and has a very self-depricating sense of humour. He definitely binges on fast food.

- Jinger has lost an incredible amount of weight, and hides behind layers of modest clothing (clear as day she has an eating disorder IMO)

- Jessa and Jana are also quite preoccupied with their weight (attending weight watchers, arguing with Ben about being fat)

- Jessa acted out as a child to get the attention of Jana and her parents, and today struggles to express emotion and love, and seems quite angry inside, and

- Jill is very defensive about saving face and towing the family line, often interrupting people who do not say the right thing, suspected post-natal depression (?), she seems quite unhappy since that nightmare birth

- Jana is clearly depressed (you can see it in her face). Her over-the-top breakdown about the jewellery box, her pinterest contains so many scripture verses that allude to her depression, and trying to focus on Gods plan and will for her life

You're completely right about everything.

Real psychiatrists and psychologists should be using these methods to diagnose depression, eating disorders and inability to express emotion simply by looking at the FACE.

This is the super power we need to save mankind.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Jim Bob publicly stated during his 2002 campaign for U.S. Senate that he thinks incest should be punishable by death. Hmm...Josh is still alive as far as I know.

http://defamer.gawker.com/duggar-dads-p ... 1706929035

Wow. :pink-shock: This reminds me of how the Duggars are staunchly pro-life, even if the mother's life is in danger, yet when Michelle was experiencing life-threatening pre-eclampsia, they allowed the doctor's to take Josie out of the womb at 25 weeks, unsure if she'd live or die. Basically an abortion to save the mother scenario. Then they parade Josie around at Pro-life events. Jimbob and Michelle are hypocrites.

[justbecause]

I think the problem that people have is more with the " :popcorn2: " attitude that a lot of posters here and elsewhere seem to have about this event. It's certainly significant news but the barely hidden glee people seem to have at watching the family be taken down is pretty gross considering the circumstances of the abuse.

And what can anyone do about the abuse? Even everyone posting here all the facts, you don't think any of the media is watching this site for information? It could be looked at that just talking about it and posting the play by play is probably helping the media quite a bit.

I feel what should have happened to Josh was that he should have been given a punishment by the courts. Maybe a group home or something. No one like's child molester's in jail. His ENTIRE future would have been ruined the other way, but then maybe that would have gotten him help.

What did his sisters get? No counseling, just words of women attracting men because of their immodesty. Josh back in the same house shortly after. Forced forgiveness (who knows if they have forgiven him).

I'm sorry that I do not feel bad for him. If anything is to change, it's through the media and getting it off the air. Will that happen 'fairly'? Probably not, but much unfairer things have happened. Change is a process. I'm glad the process is happening. I'm sorry if that bothers you,, but sometimes things happen that way.

[mebeforee]

People aren't arguing that you should feel sorry for Josh. They're saying that it rubs them the wrong way when people gloatingly circulate soundbites and memes that make light of what actually happened, especially those that are taken out of context. If you can't understand the difference between concern for the members of the family who have suffered and watching the train wreck for entertainment then there's no reason to continue the conversation.

[HarleyQuinn]

I think JB would allow the show to go on without Josh. He cares about money, and he'll still get it that way. He'll continue to parade his family around for the cameras, even though the word knows about all of this now. They'll just change the intro do not list all the kids.

[theinvisiblegirl]

I posted this in the General Discussion (wasn't sure where to put it), but it's been ignored. I thought I'd post here:

So yeah, if that is the same producer, Courtney Enlow, then that's her internet opinion about the family and the show.

If it really is her, then she did post on that site on May 14th an article that says "Why I Left Twitter." I didn't give it a good read, though. Can anyone find the Tweets? I'd love to see what she said.

[halcionne]

I'm not sure what to make of Courtney Enlow's statement. She and her husband facilitated that shit show for five or ten years (I don't remember if they were there since day one, but I think maybe they were?) and now she's gobsmacked and disavows the whole thing. How convenient.

[theinvisiblegirl]

This might have been posted earlier. Sorry if it was. I just saw it now. Buzzfeed posted another article called "The Duggars’ Description Of Josh’s “Mistakes†Minimizes Sibling Sexual Abuse, Survivors And Experts Say"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcneal ... .ryWAWVl9W

I know Buzzfeed is a place where you can find so many fun things or cool DIY things, but I love they way they report current events like this one.

[ColeMarie86]

Sorry, false alarm! Nic answered in the General Discussion forum that they're two different Courtney Enlows. LOL, it would have been hilarious if they were the same :D

[MalteseBaby]

Duggar molestation scandal by Josh Duggar is the top headline on " Inside Edition" today. I know it's tabloid TV, but people have watched this show for a lot of years.

Just saying- It's not over yet.

The lies, the manipulation with the cute kids, the underhanded "calling in favors" with a state policeman who was a pedophile. J.R. Duggar ( daddy Duggar) isn't going to walk away from this scandal unscathed,

[justbecause]

People aren't arguing that you should feel sorry for Josh. They're saying that it rubs them the wrong way when people gloatingly circulate soundbites and memes that make light of what actually happened, especially those that are taken out of context. If you can't understand the difference between concern for the members of the family who have suffered and watching the train wreck for entertainment then there's no reason to continue the conversation.

The :popcorn2: smiley was probably in bad taste. I do acknowledge that. I do apologize, I wish I didn't do that. Not trivializing it at all.

It was more of my feeling like .... waiting for the truth to come out and I hope this show get's canceled.

[Buzzard]

Oh sweet baby jesus... Ray Comfort has chimed in! Its totes kool, because what Josh did was before he's a christian!

http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/05/25/eva ... -molester/

Interesting that FOX NEWS of all places "reports" this with a snarky tone, noting that there is no evidence that Josh was NOT a christian at the time...

It’s all understandable now. You see, Josh Duggar wasn’t a Christian at the time he was diddling around with underage girls including his own sisters.

Christian evangelist Ray Comfort offered his support of Josh on May 24 via Twitter, “Standing by my friend Josh Duggar, as a brother in Christ. This was in his BC days. Such were some of us.â€

“BC†means “Before Christ,†notes the Friendly Atheist blog.

Comfort offered no proof of his claim of Josh’s lack of Christian conversion at the time of the alleged sexual abuse.

[sense and nonsense]

Oh sweet baby jesus... Ray Comfort has chimed in! Its totes kool, because what Josh did was before he's a christian!

http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/05/25/eva ... -molester/

Interesting that FOX NEWS of all places "reports" this with a snarky tone, noting that there is no evidence that Josh was NOT a christian at the time...

Am I going to H-E-double hockey sticks for laughing at this one?

Hoping for him to find out that twelve year old Josh was about as immersed in Christianity as one can get.

[Palimpsest]

This is my first posting here, so hopefully this is a good place for it.

I never cared to learn about the Duggars or watch their show, but since the police report about Josh was released, I have been fascinated/captivated by this family. After reading quite a few threads (and going back a few years), I only feel pity for them. For the little ones, the older girls and Anna and her kids of course; but even for Josh and Jim Bob and Michelle.

Re Josh – I don’t really care why he did it. The fact is, he admitted it in a public statement, and confessed it to the authorities after confessing it to his parents. That his parents or law enforcement didn’t follow the law is not on him. Whether he meant it or not, he did say in that statement that he would do anything to go back and change things. Which is a good sign.

Re Jim Bob and Michelle – I have less pity for them. They were supposed to be the adults, but they let their own pride blind them. Even if they did not want to make this a police matter, true therapy and counseling for Josh and the girls should have been required. As a father, it was Jim Bob’s duty to protect his children. All of them. And he failed miserably.

…

A little about me, I was brought up in, and am still active in the pretty conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (there are congregations which still have the men sit on one side of the chapel and women on the other) and I know families like the Duggars. I may not agree with the Duggar’s process of reasoning about the molestation, but I can see why they think the way they do in that and most everything else that most people consider odd.

And particularly for Jana’s sake, I hope that Jim Bob will allow her to court/date with a purpose an actual decent guy, who just happens to live out of state.

Welcome new poster. You will find a mixture of people here on FJ and many of us are Christians. We are not all Godless Heathens and Evil Atheists. I don't mean to pick on you particularly because your well-meaning uninformed Christian attitudes are all too common these days. This is an issue that must be addressed.

I bolded some of your statements above: You said: "he admitted it in a public statement, and confessed it to the authorities after confessing it to his parents."

He publically admitted it after the police reports were published and he was caught between a rock and a hard place. Big whoop. But look at how his statement should be read and how this whole thing was managed by the Duggars [my edits in red]:

Twelve years ago, as a young teenager I acted inexcusably committed crimes by sexually molesting some of my minor sisters and another person for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret. I hurt others, including my family and close friends. I confessed this to my parents who took several steps to help me address the situation attempted to cover up my crimes and failed to address the problem. We spoke with the authorities at my church where I confessed my wrongdoing and my parents sent me to a Gothard building project to do hard labor. They knew that if they had involved the proper authorities I would have faced penalties and received professional counseling. As Dad was running on a political platform wanting incest punished by execution they had to keep the secret. After a few months they brought me home to live with the people I had victimized. My parents had me meet with a State Trooper they knew who failed to file a report, was corrupt and is now in prison for the possession of pornography. It was not until someone at Harpo notified the police in 2006 that an investigation was started. I refused to speak with the authorities and my father tried to find me a lawyer. Luckily for me by the time the real authorities became involved the SOL had run out. Any counseling I had arranged for me was according to Gothard rules, and Gothard is also known to molest young girls.and Those affected by my actions to receive probably also got Gothard approved blame the victim counseling unless they got decent counseling after our family was referred to the FIN program in 2006. I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life. I've asked for forgiveness and my life is the only thing that matters. Forget the fact that those I molested will have to deal with the effects.

You said: "That his parents or law enforcement didn’t follow the law is not on him." Yes, I agree. His parents hid his crimes and the first LEO they had him speak to was corrupt. They managed to run down the SOL and were hardly cooperative with LE when it finally caught up to them. The TV show was much more important than complying with the law.

You may understand this kind of religious thinking, but this is just the latest in a series of horrible sexual and physical abuse cases that churches of many denominations prefer to keep hidden and all too frequently blame the victims and protect the abusers -- who commit these crimes over and over and over again.

It is a policy of secrecy in the name of religion that has to stop. Here is a good article on the problem if you want to read more: homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/paul-and-gena-suarez-old-schoolhouse-publishers-accused-of-protecting-known-child-predators/

P.S. Thanks to Nelliebelle for digging that article up again and posting it over on QoS.

Edit: fixed link.

[SassyPants]

I think the problem that people have is more with the " :popcorn2: " attitude that a lot of posters here and elsewhere seem to have about this event. It's certainly significant news but the barely hidden glee people seem to have at watching the family be taken down is pretty gross considering the circumstances of the abuse.

I have yet to see one person gleeful about this. On the contrary, I have seen many people stating that no matter how much they wanted the show to end, they did not wish it to end for this kind of reason.

I have only seen compassion expressed for the victims, Josh included.

True, many speak negatively of the parents, and rightfully so.

Perhaps, you're looking for some response that frankly has not been shown on this site.

[VelociRapture]

I was thinking about this earlier and was wondering what other people thought:

I saw an article earlier on Webpronews that I thought made an interesting point. They discussed the fact that all the articles about this incident have cast Michelle as a villain, when she could also be viewed as a victim. They gave a brief (but relatively decent) run-down of what life is like for a wife in a Fundamentalist Baptist family and explained why Michelle may not have felt capable of protecting her daughters, even if she wanted to.

I don't consider that a defense of Michelle. She and her husband seriously failed all their kids by not acting on the allegations when they first learned about them. But I do find it interesting that we seem to have ignored the fact (or I just missed this discussion) that Boob is the head of the family and would have been the one making all the calls in this situation. He may have discussed things with Michelle, but at the end of the day he is the one who would have made all the final decisions. These would include:

- Taking Josh to meet with his LEO friend instead of reporting him officially

- Informing Church Elders and allowing Josh to be sent away to perform construction work

- Allowing Josh to continue living under the same roof as his minor siblings, despite the allegations and confessions

- Allegedly not seeking professional counseling for Josh or the victims

So what are your thoughts? Do people feel that Michelle could be viewed as a victim of sorts? Does she bear responsibility for not breaking the bonds of the patriarchy in order to save her children? Do you think she holds more responsibility than the author of that article suggests? Is Boob more to blame for this situation than Michelle?

Please play nicely with one another. :D

Link broken just in case: webpronews.com/michelle-duggar-villain-or-victim-in-19-kids-and-counting-son-josh-duggars-sexual-molestation-scandal-2015-05

[mebeforee]

I've seen many people on this site who I've agreed with. I've also seen many who appear to be here just to gossip and do not seem well-informed about what's going on (though obviously FJ as a whole is far more educated on Gothardism and other Quiverfull/Patriarchal mindsets than most people I've seen discuss it on facebook or comment sections of articles I've been reading). I have not seen OPENLY gleeful messages, but ones that contain a tone of enjoyment over the scandalous nature of what happened. Obviously that is just my interpretation, but I have seen other commenters here who appear to also feel that people are enjoying this all a little too much. Again, no one is arguing that people need to feel sorry for or forgive Josh (or his parents), but it is not unreasonable to want respect to be shown for the victims of the assault. Making their brother's stupid comments into an ironic joke is at the whole family's expense, not just his.

[Fascinated]

Respectfully, no, it wasn't meaningless. It is common for people who have done evil things to joke about it. Psychologically it's a way of distancing yourself from what you've done. It's a form of denial - it's "funny", so it can't be that bad.

Recently in the UK we had the case of Rolf Harris (don't know if people elsewhere on the globe know who he is - an Australian painter and general entertainer who was on British TV for decades). He had interfered with young girls including his daughter's friends. A favourite joke of his was "I never touched her, your honour" (your honour = a judge, sorry if I'm stating the obvious).

As Freud told us a long time ago, there's no such thing as a joke.

Neither of us knows for sure but I still take it as a joke about Arkansas stereotypes that are widely known to be held.

[lascuba]

What did she say instead?

She stuttered and then whispered, "underclothes." That and the fact that someone studying for her GED couldn't bring herself to say vagina and instead said "privates" just...it's not the worst thing in light of what we know now, but it still grates.

[SassyPants]

I think based on the Duggars patriarchal beliefs, JB is more culpable than M because his decisions override all. IMO, this is especially applicable to the handling of Josh. In terms of the girls, I think Michelle is equally to blame. I am sure that she could have convinced JB that actual family and particularly, individual counseling was in order....although would counseling mandate legal involvement, I'm not sure? Real legal involvement might have been a deal breaker for JB.

Where Michelle is really guilty, is in the area of additional pregnancies and children. JB has always said that Michelle is the one who decides if she would like additional children.

IMO, when you are failing at parenting, nurturing and protecting the children you already have, you should not, with clear conscience, add more.