Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 5

[BlackSheep]

I'm extremely sad for his sisters and the other victim. I hope they don't blame themselves or hurt themselves over this. It's also sad that people defend and give a pass to celebrities (or people they admire) and people who share their beliefs. What he did was wrong and he should feel bad/ashamed and he should be attacked. Another sad part is that people within his community will see this and make it harder for people to speak up. The whole community standing by the predator causes the victims of other predators to feel like they can't speak up. It will also eliminate any sort of deterrent since there are no consequences for those types of actions. Again, I hope someone helps his sisters and the other victim...

THIS THIS THIS

[Lillybee]

I just watched CNN on this with Vyckie G. I thought that she looked ill. I hope that she is OK.

[RosyDaisy]

So I'm searching the follow the money website. Ol' Jimmy boy is listed a lot. I'll try to copy them here because he's listed as James, James R, James "Jim Bob", etc. The one in red is a democrat and may not be our Jim Bob. The other out of state ones are listed with Arkansas ones though.

MCMATH, BYRON AL 2006 STANDARD SENATE DISTRICT 005 LOST-PRIMARY OPEN 1 $250

Just Bart that I see connected to this case. I just found who donated to him so I'm going to scour that document and report back.

Bryon McMath is an attorney from Jasper, AL who unsuccessfully ran for the Alabama State Senate as a Democrat twice and lost. How is he related to this?

[Alye]

:? I finally did the dates on Jana's comment on wanting Josh to get married. The report was in December of 2006 and in the Duggar dating rules filmed in 2008 she said that 'last year' she was wanting him to find someone. :?

[OkToBeTakei]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-of-doubt

Searingly good read!

The Duggar case, in this regard, is particularly repulsive. For those unversed in the “look at this weird family†school of American reality television (subsets include “let’s all laugh at the impoverished†and “fats – they think they’re people!â€), the Duggar family populates a programme called 19 Kids and Counting, formerly 18 Kids and Counting, formerly 17 Kids and Counting. The premise is that patriarch Jim Bob Duggar incessantly impregnates his wife Michelle in order to expand the ranks of their sanctimonious Christian homeschooling cult – which, as far as I can tell, holds as its sacraments: boringness, purity, female subservience, shamelessly rubbing heterosex in strangers’ faces, the letter “Jâ€, hairdos of a peltlike nature and keeping LGBT people from doing stuff.

Josh has already been defended by rightwing Christians as high-profile as presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee, who called the sexual assault of five children a “mistake†made by a “good [person]â€. One pastor’s wife who also subscribes to the Duggars’ “Quiverfull†movement (which, apparently, is where you pretend your nutsack is a quiver and your penis is a stout longbow and your wife is a pile of hay or rags that you shoot sperm arrows into), argued that Josh was just “playing doctor†and deserves to be “left alone to live a good lifeâ€.

I've quoted the humour/snark part. The article though is well worth a read.

What’s frightening is that we’re so accustomed to giving powerful, famous men the benefit of the doubt that, on a cultural level, we treat men’s reputations with the same reverence as victims’ safety. “Sure, it’s important to protect the vulnerable and sexually traumatised or whatever, but what about that nice man’s TV show? He worked really hard for that! You can’t just take away a man’s stuff!â€

The result is a system in which victims often find themselves on trial in their own rape proceedings; a culture in which silence is incentivised and speaking out is often punished; a world in which we have ample vocabulary for comforting the accused (“I’m waiting to hear all the facts,†“we can’t jump to conclusions,†“who can even make sense of consent these days?â€) but precious little for victims (when’s the last time you heard a simple, unqualified “I believe you†outside of the feminist blogosphere?).

[nelliebelle1197]

I'm 10 pages behind, so maybe this has already been stated, but I think Courtney Enlow is 19KAC director Scott Enlow's wife. I bet those two have some tales to tell.

If it's already been mentioned, carry on.

I know this has been said, but I wil say again because RUMORS!

I am pretty sure that cannot be the same person. The Scott-Courtney is listed as a production coordinator for this show and the other Courtney is a freelance writer with tons of credits. This is not a one-off hit piece. Pictures of both are available and they do not look like the same person. The Scott-Courtney would probably be in a bit of trouble if she pulled something like this.

[nelliebelle1197]

I just saw Jessa father in-law felt the need to comment his opinion:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts ... tive-says/

And read earlier on fb that Huckabee said on Sunday that Josh was possessed by a demon or something as such, as an excuse, did any one else hear this?

Can you point this out? There are 1000 comments on there.

[bluehydrangea]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/26/josh-duggar-allegations-famous-men-benefit-of-doubt

Searingly good read!

I've quoted the humour/snark part. The article though is well worth a read.

I'm so glad someone posted this, I read it yesterday and meant to share. Hysterical and on-point!

[ThatsMyTaquito]

Child Protection Service Launches Full Investigation Into The Duggar Family

http://washingtonpost.com.co/child-prot ... ar-family/

:o

!	{TEXT1}:
	The link is not legit.

[apple1]

I just watched CNN on this with Vyckie G. I thought that she looked ill. I hope that she is OK.

It would be a good thing if the news outlets would do their homework and realize that there are many real and effective Duggar and/or Quiverfull and/or Gothardism opponents (hint: recovering grace, etc, many others) besides the fall-back-on-the-easiest-one-we-interviewed-a-few-years-ag) V y c k i e.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Child Protection Service Launches Full Investigation Into The Duggar Family

http://washingtonpost.com.co/child-prot ... ar-family/

:o

Do you guys want to tell them or should I?

((It's not real))

[apple1]

OK - for the 4th time in approximately one page - ITS. A. SNARK. SITE.

ITS. A. SNARK. SITE.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Then why didn't victim #5's family speak up?

Because victim 5's family was likely ATI as well, which means that his transgressions were her fault.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

It's quite likely her family believed she defrauded him somehow and tempted him in her sleep (you know how women/girls are). Maybe they sought help and healing within the church, too, and never planned to report it. And/or got paid off.

I doubt they were paid off. The Duggars were broke back then.

[gustava]

josh duggar: " ah did not have seckshul relations with that sister "

Not funny.

[LilyRose]

Something esle that makes me throw up in my mouth about this whole thing is Mike Huckabee commenting that people enjoying watching the Duggar's fall from grace are bad people.

Seriously, no-one is enjoying this, because the reason behind the fall from grace is the abuse of 5 innocent young girls.

I'm not going to lie, if Jim Bob had been caught in bed with a mature consenting adult called Roger, wearing a suspenders and high heels while Michelle sat in the corner in head toe PVC leather filming them I would very much enjoy sitting back and watching the shit storm that followed.

Am I somewhat glad that the white wash facade has been stripped e back and the darker and more sinister aspects of ATI, IBLP, Gothard and funie-ism in general are now being talked about a lot more? Yes- it's a relief to finally see that people are starting to see beyond the lies.

But not at the expense of those 5 girls. The fact that 5 girts being abused was the catalyst for this is sickening.

[JenniferJuniper]

Something esle that makes me throw up in my mouth about this whole thing is Mike Huckabee commenting that people enjoying watching the Duggar's fall from grace are bad people.

Seriously, no-one is enjoying this, because the reason behind the fall from grace is the abuse of 5 innocent young girls.

I'm not going to lie, if Jim Bob had been caught in bed with a mature consenting adult called Roger, wearing a suspenders and high heels while Michelle sat in the corner in head toe PVC leather filming them I would very much enjoy sitting back and watching the shit storm that followed.

Am I somewhat glad that the white wash facade has been stripped e back and the darker and more sinister aspects of ATI, IBLP, Gothard and funie-ism in general are now being talked about a lot more? Yes- it's a relief to finally see that people are starting to see beyond the lies.

But not at the expense of those 5 girls. The fact that 5 girts being abused was the catalyst for this is sickening.

I think most people feel exactly the same as you . Especially for the girls who had to live in the house with their abuser, doing his laundry, cooking his food and cleaning up after him. It's so horrible. And we really don't know when the abuse stopped. If some comments he made on the show are any indication, it's very possible Josh got a kick out of making light of his crimes in front of the girls. Almost rubbing it in their faces.

Huckabee and his ilk are doing their usual "let's turn this into a Christian persecution thing" ignoring the reality for the victims and the fact that "the most wholesome family in America" not only covered up a huge secret, they've gone on to accuse groups of innocent people of doing what Josh really did do, just because of who they are.

I see Josh's bestie Rick Santorum has jumped into the race. With his usual exquisite timing.

[Mia]

Honestly I don't know how to feel about all this.

While I think the show will be cancelled for good, it makes me kinda sad. Not for Michelle and JB, not because they won't have a huge platform to spit their bullshit anymore. Just because I hope there is alot of money left from what they made and that the kids get their share. Otherwise I don't think this will end good for any of the kids, all of them don't get the opportunity to get a decent enough education to get a decent enough job to support a fast growing family - and most of them will have a fast growing family at one point at the time. So in all honesty, the show was their only chance to be able to afford all this. And I somewhat - and with mixed emotions - do feel bad about the show being cancelled (now even walgreens pulled out and if you follow social media, there are almost no duggar supporters anymore and continuing without josh would be awkward and the shiny bubble of joy and duggarwonderworld is destroyed and unbelievable anymore) because of the kids - and for all we know and experienced so far, all of them are vicitims to their parents who brainwashed them, raised them in a cult and sold them out to public.

On the other hand i caught myself thinking about what i would have done in this situation, if my son confessed to me he molested my daughters. Now this may not applicable to Michelle and JB, because they are just and I am not defending those two morons in any way, but would I have gone to the police immediately? I would first probably have been heartbroken and even if at the same time i would despise my son, he would still be my son and I would still love him no matter what. On the other hand there would be my daughters and I love them no matter what and would be ashamed that I didn't see that coming, stopped it, prevented it and failed to protect them. Then what? I would have for sure thought of a way to get my son out of the house, would I have taken him back at some point? I'm sure I would have gone to the police at some point in time, but even for fundamentalist morons like M&JB this situation must have been overwhelming, just saying.

[MatthewDuggar]

...i caught myself thinking about what i would have done in this situation....

I have been thinking about that constantly. I don't have kids, so I really can't think of exactly how I would react. I am sure there are many options and opinions. I thought about creating a "what would you have done" thread, but I don't have a good enough personal opinion yet. I know what is right, but I know if it were my own children I would be very upset and confused on the best thing to do.

[Ella]

Relatedly, a friend of mine asks: "How do you know what the therapy was? It was church based, so I'm sure that was part of it, but it was FOUR MONTHS. Just because something is religion based, doesn't make it worthless."

Can anyone help me answer her? What was the therapy Josh got?

[Buzzard]

I have been thinking about that constantly. I don't have kids, so I really can't think of exactly how I would react. I am sure there are many options and opinions. I thought about creating a "what would you have done" thread, but I don't have a good enough personal opinion yet. I know what is right, but I know if it were my own children I would be very upset and confused on the best thing to do.

Being a good parent is hard sometimes. While its hard to do the right thing, its still the right thing. Juvenile court has a lot of resources and their records are sealed. Unless your child commits a crime that is a designated felony or punishable as an adult they will be treated pretty gently. Bring them to authorities, get treatment and services. If they re offend not only will that be on your conscience, but there are drastically more consequences in big boy court. We have a "scared straight" program for a reason, and professionals trained in dealing with youthful offenders. If you could just pray away your criminal inclinations there would be no need for "fire and brimstone" churches. Parents need to give their children the best chance possible, and the way to do that is to avail yourself of resources that can do that.

Had Jim Bob submitted Josh to the court when this first happened there would have only been one victim and this would never have gotten out. Had he done the right thing all of their lives would have been drastically different.

[Monica Joan]

I have been thinking about that constantly. I don't have kids, so I really can't think of exactly how I would react. I am sure there are many options and opinions. I thought about creating a "what would you have done" thread, but I don't have a good enough personal opinion yet. I know what is right, but I know if it were my own children I would be very upset and confused on the best thing to do.

How is this a thing? If my child did this, I'd get proper treatment and report to the police. (And get proper therapy for any victims!)

Remember, if the Duggars had done this-- and Josh had gone through an official rehab program-- his records would have been sealed at 18. It's because they tried to skirt the law (at best) we are hearing about it now.

This is not confusing.

[sense and nonsense]

Relatedly, a friend of mine asks: "How do you know what the therapy was? It was church based, so I'm sure that was part of it, but it was FOUR MONTHS. Just because something is religion based, doesn't make it worthless."

Can anyone help me answer her? What was the therapy Josh got?

1. What JB and Michelle provided was not therapy. It was a manual labour construction camp run by then IBLP head Bill Gothard who had since resigned due to sexual abuse allegations against him. A quick Google search of IBLP construction should bring up the page.

2. After JB refused to bring Josh in, the police report ends by saying that a FINS affidavit was filed, which would involve DHS in Arkansas. A thread was made detailing FINS affidavits and what they mean. Search Family In Need of Services on FJ. This was also mentioned by Alice way back then.

Users who knew about these kinds of interventions by DHS said that their success largely depends on cooperation from the family, as it wasn't a case where any minors were removed from the home. So we don't know the exact therapy received by Josh and the Duggar sisters.

[nst]

well I was right people magazine's covering it

and they don't mention at least not online the victims

and someone who said that they are pulling the wagons in are correct

The future of TLC's 19 Kids and Counting is on shaky ground following the revelation that a felony investigation was opened in 2006 after Josh Duggar was accused by his victims of molesting five underage girls.

In statements to PEOPLE, the Duggar family indirectly addressed the closed investigation by referring to the multiple incidents listed in the report unearthed by InTouch Weekly as "teenage mistakes."

Michelle and Jim Bob are "devastated" over the leak, a source close to the family tells PEOPLE. "They know that they did the best they could, but it doesn't mean they're not filled with regret."

While TLC has pulled reruns of its massive ratings success from the schedule, the network has yet to make any official decision about the future of 19 Kids moving forward.

Keep up with your favorite celebs in the pages of PEOPLE Magazine by subscribing now.

However, as the source tells PEOPLE, Michelle and Jim Bob are not currently focused on the very real possibility that they'll lose the TV show on which they've built a veritable empire: "Right now they're just focused on their faith – and each other."

In their joint statement to PEOPLE, Michelle, 48, and Jim Bob, 49, said that Josh's "very bad mistakes" drew the family closer to each other and to God: "We pray that as people watch our lives they see that we are not a perfect family

[Librul]

Relatedly, a friend of mine asks: "How do you know what the therapy was? It was church based, so I'm sure that was part of it, but it was FOUR MONTHS. Just because something is religion based, doesn't make it worthless."

Can anyone help me answer her? What was the therapy Josh got?

There is a variety of "religious" counseling. Because of my job, I know many, and in my experience, they run the gamut from highly reputable and highly trained to drooling religious fanatics who do much more harm than good.

There are licensed Pastoral Counselors, who take accredited courses from accredited universities and sit for the regular state licensing boards. These are certified counselors/therapists in every way, the difference, if any, is that they also have courses, training and mindsets that help them be attentive to the faith dimension of psychological and emotional issues, IF THE PATIENT WANTS TO BRING THAT DIMENSION TO THE CONVERSATION. This includes ANY faith dimension--Judeo Christian, Islam, spirituality, or a vague sense of the divine. Going to a counselor such as this for a secular person would be no different from any other licensed therapist. If you bring up the faith dimension, they have the training and mind set to work with that.

There are Christian Counselors who have some training. This training varies from significant to not much. They are sometimes/sometimes not licensed by the State. Others are 'licensed" through religious communities or groups. These are counselors/therapists who ALWAYS see issues in terms of religious belief and behavior. They would actively seek out Scriptural citations, creedal statements, issues of sin and redemption during counseling sessions and provide a very proactive/prescriptive solution to issues.

Then, there is Gothard. This "therapy" is conducted by religious personnel or elders who would most likely have no psychotherapy training. When dealing with sexual issues, they would look at whether the perpetrator has been truly saved, what modesty protocols prevailed in the home, what may have been lacking in the home environment as far as emphasis on purity, modesty, and submission, what would cause a young man to stumble (NIKE!), how much blame/fault attaches to the victim, (who may have directly or indirectly caused the incident through immodest actions, words or attitudes), whether the person has confessed and the victims been encouraged to "forgive", and what scripture passages claim the victory over sin. There would be an emphasis on redemption, sin and forgiveness, but no emphasis on the psycho/social/emotional root of the issues.

I will leave it to you to assume which religious therapy was provided for Josh.