Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 5

[latraviata]

I was positive he was following him. Why would he have followed Dan and not Derick?

Who bloody cares?????

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I was positive he was following him. Why would he have followed Dan and not Derick?

I dunno, I'm pretty sure he has been following the same 8 people forever

[SassyPants]

There is no discussion that the Duggars handled that in a very...poor...way. But I am not talking about denying my girls proper counceling or if I would rather go to the church eldest or the police. I was wondering how I personally would have handled this situation if it occured in my family (that I don't have, no kids here yet) and honestly I rather not be put into the position to deal with such a situation. But I do think that if I were a parent being put in this situation, tons of thoughts would cross my mind before I would be able to come to a rational decision about how to handle this in a proper way. While the girls would go first in any of my decisions and a proper medical check and counceling and seeing a psychologist would be the first thing that would most likely come to my mind, would i still try to protect my son? Would I send my son to a psychologist but not report him to the police? Would I report him to the police because the fear of him reapeating that behavior over and over again, maybe even fearing he turns out to be a pedophile would weigh much heavier than the urge to still protect your own kid even if he did tremendous harm? I am sure from our point, a point of people who haven't experienced this yet, it is quite easy to say what would be the right way to do it, what would be the wrong way. And quite frankly going to the church eldest, sending him to a place where he helps building homes is not the right way, that is totally out of the question.

The other thing i wonder is (and jadis87 mentioned that already) what if the girls don't even realize what happened there? I honestly do believe that there is a very high chance that even some of the girls don't realize what actually happened and what that means. Afterall we are not talking about your fellow neighboorhood kids, but about kids who have been raised in an environment where everyone believes that wearing short skirts means you are stiring up desires in men who just can't help it but to rape you. They are brought up to believe that you cater to the men - always. Obviously they know it was wrong, but what if they believe that that it was wrong is all that happened and that a sinner who repents and who truly turned to god has to be forgiven, will be forgiven and is forgiven? In their eyes, all of this might not just be such a big of a deal. What struck me tho and what makes me believe that some of the girls do still have a mind of their own, is that one "interviewed victim" stated she doesn't fully trust Josh anymore.

Agree.

However, would you then enter a media contract to sell your wholesome family to the viewing world? Would you then make robo calls talking about the perils of GLTB folks on the lives of children? Accept a position with a group that works to deny others' rights based on your ideas of perversion?

The problem with the Duggars are the layers of deception and myriad poor decisions by several people.

You're right, the girls still may not understand what happened to them.

And what about the 5th person? So JB decided to loosely address the problem- well, he certainly did not take that 5th person into consideration unless he paid off that person's parent/guardian.

[Jessa's Side Eye]

Who bloody cares?????

There is no need to be rude about it. I was simply stating I found it odd that I remember only the other day that Ben followed Derick, and now he does not.

I don't go around writing who cares on your posts.

[justbecause]

Can anyone please elaborate on the fact that JB & M called Josh 'precious Josh'. Did they call any of the others 'precious' and why only Josh?

[LongDogMom]

While I wouldn't normally trust In Touch Magazine, they were the ones to get the ball rolling by getting the police report on Josh Duggar and now everyone has picked the story up. On their new cover they expose more information...

That when the police closed the investigation due to the Statute of Limitations running out, they referred the case to DHS. "Nine months after those agencies entered the Duggar molestation case, Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas Department of Human Services. A trial was held on August 6, 2007.

The results of the investigation into the Duggars and Josh’s trial are sealed. But a source familiar with the Duggar investigation told In Touch it was likely that Josh “appealed the DHS decision or finding from their investigation.†The source notes that DHS had the authority to apply “restrictions or stipulations about him being at home with the victims...The Duggars are refusing to comment on the intervention by either department and Josh’s trial against DHS. They also are refusing to say if their family was monitored by a state agency after the 2007 actions and forced to undergo counseling by a licensed mental health professional."

[latraviata]

There is no need to be rude about it. I was simply stating I found it odd that I remember only the other day that Ben followed Derick, and now he does not.

I don't go around writing who cares on your posts.

Feel free to do so.

[justbecause]

Jim Bob and Michelle are plastered across the front of People coming out Friday. Karma!

How do we see the cover? How did you find it? Also, anythng about what the topic will be?

[Snarkle Motion]

Honestly my outrage is not about how the parents handled the situation twelve years ago. Yes, they made mistakes in not getting him proper treatment, protecting the perpetrator and returning him to the home, and shielding him from proper criminal or legal consequences. But I actually don't blame them for that since this is how sibling sex abuse is most frequently handled. Its not a subject we talk about, there is so much stigma, and there is a desire to protect your children, even those who committed the crime.

What I absolutely am enraged about is Michelle and JB's decision afterward in which they have spent more than a decade marketing their family brand with particular emphasis on espousing the values of purity, the dangers of female "immodesty", and the importance of patriarchy. They didn't just have a TV show - they viewed this as their ministry! They also wrote books and delivered speeches to further these religious views as well as parlaying their fame for to help advance a political agenda. If Josh had still been working at a car lot I would be a whole hell of a lot less pissed off. But he knew what he had done - whether he was legally a "sex offender" he had definitely committed sex offenses - yet he is going to campaign to take the rights away of others and dictate what type of relationships should be legal?

Its the disconnect and hypocrisy that has me so worked up. I am absolutely horrified for the girls and so worried about them right now given what they went through, that they have to relive this for the whole world, especially given that they are taught their value is essentially tied inextricably to their purity. I wish that it hadn't happened this way, but I am happy that there is a scandal so that people will realize that they have been whitewashing a dangerous and hateful belief system. Like someone else said it would have been better if the scandal had involved a consenting adult (transgender or gay).

And there is probably also a selfish part of me that is happy about the Duggar downfall because of my own personal experience with purity culture and the damage it does. But also the problem of sibling sexual abuse which I only recently found out occurred in my mothers family but not to her (older brother and younger brother). That was NEVER talked about but it had long lasting effects on the entire family even generations later. So while I hate that the girls had no choice in being the public face of this issue I am happy that this issue is being brought to the public's attention since it is so much more common than we realize and carries so much stigma. Hopefully more families will be able to confront this issue and deal with it healthier ways because this issue has been discussed or brought to public attention? At least that is the other silver lining I try to see in this terrible tragedy.

[Yoshimi]

From what I remember he never followed Josiah at all to begin with when Josiah jumped on board. I do remember him following Derick though, I'm sure of it.

You REALLY sure about that? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Please stop spreading this lie. We don't need to add to the speculations when you clearly don't have your facts straight. I know beyond a doubt that Ben NEVER followed Derick on Instagram. 100% absolutely effing sure. Unfortunately, I don't really have a way to "prove" it except to say I've monitored Ben's IG from the start (not that hard with <10 followers) and I know he always followed these 6 people - Josh, Anna, Jill, Jessa, Seewaldfamily, Duggarfamily. He also used to follow his sister Jessica up until a few months ago but stopped around the same time as his family deleted her off their IG. The Dan follow happened fairly recently, after Izzy was born. Again, I repeat, Ben never followed Derick in the first place, so it's not possible that he "unfollowed him". Now people can still speculate on Ben's following list if they want but this thing with Derick was an issue from way, way back when Ben was still COURTING Jessa. I do know that Ben did start following Derick on twitter recently (like 2 weeks ago) after never having followed him there before either.

[SassyPants]

CPS would have to have a reason or a valid, current complaint to enter someone's home.

In the Duggar's world, where would that complaint come from? The inside? The kids are pretty isolated.

Anyone can call CPS on a parent. If the Criteria for the complaint is met(based on state law) then a report can be generated, a visit can be made and an investigation can be initiated. So it does not have to be someone in the home.

[Jessa's Side Eye]

Feel free to do so.

I wouldn't do that, because unlike you I seem to respect what everyone else has to say. I have no idea why you have an issue with what I wrote, but if you didn't like it you could have just not said anything and kept scrolling past.

You make me remember why I left message boards along time ago. Some people cannot be mature about things they don't agree with/don't like. Obviously by the few responses I got some people did "bloody care".

[Nishi621]

I take it everyone has seen this?:

http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-c ... on-reports

[hennypenny]

1. What JB and Michelle provided was not therapy. It was a manual labour construction camp run by then IBLP head Bill Gothard who had since resigned due to sexual abuse allegations against him. A quick Google search of IBLP construction should bring up the page.

2. After JB refused to bring Josh in, the police report ends by saying that a FINS affidavit was filed, which would involve DHS in Arkansas. A thread was made detailing FINS affidavits and what they mean. Search Family In Need of Services on FJ. This was also mentioned by Alice way back then.

Users who knew about these kinds of interventions by DHS said that their success largely depends on cooperation from the family, as it wasn't a case where any minors were removed from the home. So we don't know the exact therapy received by Josh and the Duggar sisters.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

[halcionne]

Then, there is Gothard. This "therapy" is conducted by religious personnel or elders who would most likely have no psychotherapy training. When dealing with sexual issues, they would look at whether the perpetrator has been truly saved, what modesty protocols prevailed in the home, what may have been lacking in the home environment as far as emphasis on purity, modesty, and submission, what would cause a young man to stumble (NIKE!), how much blame/fault attaches to the victim, (who may have directly or indirectly caused the incident through immodest actions, words or attitudes), whether the person has confessed and the victims been encouraged to "forgive", and what scripture passages claim the victory over sin. There would be an emphasis on redemption, sin and forgiveness, but no emphasis on the psycho/social/emotional root of the issues.

I will leave it to you to assume which religious therapy was provided for Josh.

This is what he got from March to July of 2003:

http://web.archive.org/web/200505272214 ... struction/

While I'm sure he got a good dose of the usual shame and reindoctrination, the program didn't seem "therapy" oriented at all; it was advertised as vocational training.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Might be interesting to research who the Duggars have been overly generous with in recent years. Not saying those families are victims, per se, but they may know details that the Dugga's wanted kept quiet. Pure speculation, but I'd laugh my butt off if it came out someday that ATI/Quiverfull families were blackmailing Jim Boob!

[SassyPants]

Honestly my outrage is not about how the parents handled the situation twelve years ago. Yes, they made mistakes in not getting him proper treatment, protecting the perpetrator and returning him to the home, and shielding him from proper criminal or legal consequences. But I actually don't blame them for that since this is how sibling sex abuse is most frequently handled. Its not a subject we talk about, there is so much stigma, and there is a desire to protect your children, even those who committed the crime.

What I absolutely am enraged about is Michelle and JB's decision afterward in which they have spent more than a decade marketing their family brand with particular emphasis on espousing the values of purity, the dangers of female "immodesty", and the importance of patriarchy. They didn't just have a TV show - they viewed this as their ministry! They also wrote books and delivered speeches to further these religious views as well as parlaying their fame for to help advance a political agenda. If Josh had still been working at a car lot I would be a whole hell of a lot less pissed off. But he knew what he had done - whether he was legally a "sex offender" he had definitely committed sex offenses - yet he is going to campaign to take the rights away of others and dictate what type of relationships should be legal?

Its the disconnect and hypocrisy that has me so worked up. I am absolutely horrified for the girls and so worried about them right now given what they went through, that they have to relive this for the whole world, especially given that they are taught their value is essentially tied inextricably to their purity. I wish that it hadn't happened this way, but I am happy that there is a scandal so that people will realize that they have been whitewashing a dangerous and hateful belief system. Like someone else said it would have been better if the scandal had involved a consenting adult (transgender or gay).

And there is probably also a selfish part of me that is happy about the Duggar downfall because of my own personal experience with purity culture and the damage it does. But also the problem of sibling sexual abuse which I only recently found out occurred in my mothers family but not to her (older brother and younger brother). That was NEVER talked about but it had long lasting effects on the entire family even generations later. So while I hate that the girls had no choice in being the public face of this issue I am happy that this issue is being brought to the public's attention since it is so much more common than we realize and carries so much stigma. Hopefully more families will be able to confront this issue and deal with it healthier ways because this issue has been discussed or brought to public attention? At least that is the other silver lining I try to see in this terrible tragedy.

BINGO!

[HarleyQuinn]

People magazine will white wash this. Look at this quote:

"However, as the source tells PEOPLE, Michelle and Jim Bob are not currently focused on the very real possibility that they'll lose the TV show on which they've built a veritable empire: "Right now they're just focused on their faith – and each other." " :ew:

[LongDogMom]

Celebitchy summarizes the above as "It’s sort of a fill-in-the-blanks scenario, but I think the gist of the story is that the investigating police officers – realizing that Josh Duggar couldn’t be charged because of the statute of limitations – turned over their investigation to the Department of Human Services. Arkansas DHS ran their own investigation – likely in 2006-07 – and came up with their own report which included some stipulations about what kind of contact Josh Duggar should have with the minor siblings he molested. And Josh appealed the decision and sued to have the DHS files sealed and it worked."

Makes you wonder what DHS found/recommended and I wonder why the judge on appeal sided with Josh. After this most recent judge having close ties to Huckabee, who is close friends with the Duggars, it makes you wonder. Also would love to know what DHS discovered, although I'm sure the Duggars would've made sure their children only said certain things and not others and towed the family party line.

Someone recently said, on other forum discussion, that they think a lot more went on, and for longer, than we know. Sort of the *For every rat you see, there's 10 more you don't* theory and I suspect that's true. There's been comments here and there made that seem to illustrate that some of the girls haven't gotten over what happened and many have said that while Jana always appears sad and broken, Jessa often appears to have a lof ot anger and rage inside. On the latter, that is a common consequence of childhood sexual abuse...especially as you grow older and think back on what was done. However, with all the brainwashing involved, it's probably likely that she simply re-directs that anger into religious stances against things her parents have said it's okay to hate and projects all her feelings on to that. I mean, even her FIL is supporting Josh and praising JB and M for being Godly parents who handled everything appropriately. I wonder if he'd feel the same way if Josh had molested one of his daughters?

He also seems to think that anyone would do what Josh did if there was no consequences and no chance of others finding out and that only God is holding people back from doing such sin. I hate to tell him, but I would never molest a child simply because I could get away with it. The definition of integrity is to do the right thing when no one is watching. Clearly these people have no personal integrity. They all see God as the authority and the only thing preventing them from sinning rather than taking personal responsibility, but then based on how they talk about women being responsible for lust in men and causing them to "stumble" (aka molest or rape) rather than talking to their sons about self control. It's hard not to feel that the more they try to avoid sexual feelings by the girls dressing in ways that cover everything and talking to their children constantly about purity and yelling Nike when a woman walks by that might incite lust so the boys can look at their shoes and remain pure and all the strict courtship rules...the more they cause their kids to constantly think about it and see it as such a big deal, whereas if they just dressed normally and taught them self control and that nothing gives you the right to violate another person, not even if they are standing there naked, I think it would be a lot healthier and not such an issue!

[SassyPants]

This is what he got from March to July of 2003:

http://web.archive.org/web/200505272214 ... struction/

While I'm sure he got a good dose of the usual shame and reindoctrination, the program didn't seem "therapy" oriented at all; it was advertised as vocational training.

Remember when Josh said he did not like manual labor? I forget what it was in reference to, but maybe they were talking about JD and all the things that he does, and them having to help build the TTH and Josh mentioned he did not like that kind of work. I remember him saying he could do it, but did not like to do it.

[Jessa's Side Eye]

You REALLY sure about that? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Please stop spreading this lie. We don't need to add to the speculations when you clearly don't have your facts straight. I know beyond a doubt that Ben NEVER followed Derick on Instagram. 100% absolutely effing sure. Unfortunately, I don't really have a way to "prove" it except to say I've monitored Ben's IG from the start (not that hard with <10 followers) and I know he always followed these 6 people - Josh, Anna, Jill, Jessa, Seewaldfamily, Duggarfamily. He also used to follow his sister Jessica up until a few months ago but stopped around the same time as his family deleted her off their IG. The Dan follow happened fairly recently, after Izzy was born. Again, I repeat, Ben never followed Derick in the first place, so it's not possible that he "unfollowed him". Now people can still speculate on Ben's following list if they want but this thing with Derick was an issue from way, way back when Ben was still COURTING Jessa. I do know that Ben did start following Derick on twitter recently (like 2 weeks ago) after never having followed him there before either.

No need to attack me and say I'm spreading lies. I was pretty damn sure he was following him the other day. If I was mistaken, I'm genuinely sorry for that, but I don't go around making things up just for the sake of it. I honestly believed I saw it. I'm not in the habit of rumour mongering. If it was a misconception, you could have just told me in a nicer way instead of being rude.

I really was enjoying being on this site, but people are making it very hard to have a decent conversation. I would never attack anyone, say they were spreading lies or saying "who bloody cares" on people's posts. I find some peoples behaviour here very childish, and to be honest quite rotten. We all have a common interest, we all are trying to figure all of this out. Being unkind is not going to help anyone.

[SassyPants]

People magazine will white wash this. Look at this quote:

"However, as the source tells PEOPLE, Michelle and Jim Bob are not currently focused on the very real possibility that they'll lose the TV show on which they've built a veritable empire: "Right now they're just focused on their faith – and each other." " :ew:

They've ALWAYS been focused on themselves....it's why they're in the quandary that they're currently facing.

[justbecause]

In other news, I think Jessica Seewald took down her "dont hate on me" IG post. Her last pic is now the one where she is covering part of her face with her hand and preaching about forgiveness.

I must admit that even though she is 18 yo and technically an adult, I was SHOCKED that her parents did not take over her and all the other social media accounts. I thought that that was the first thing that they would have done.

I'm glad to see it was up for a time being though. Hmmm... I wonder if this was during that time when they hired that PR guy? He would have recommended to lock down all of the social media accounts. Or maybe it's just coincidence.

If.. If this PR/social media guy is now on board, do not be surprised if a lot of 'planned' and targeted snibble starts showing up on their accounts.

[justbecause]

I am going to look into who is the parent company/companies of TLC. I'll report back.

[ILoveJellybeans]

The only other source we have seen on this so far is satire.

Personally I think that there should be an investigation into the Duggar home-both Michelle and Jimbob, and Josh and Anna's. This was handled so horribly by everyone involved that the parents let all of their children down. It cant change the fact that Michelle, Jimbob and their church elders failed the daughters by not protecting them from their abuser and making steps to keep them safe, and it cant change that they failed Josh by not getting him into proper professional treatment when it happened, but I think it is important they at least stop by and see whether the current crop of children are being treated well (although I assume there are no more teenage boys molesting little girls, I cant imagine they have entirely stopped beating their kids with a rod, and I think there is a ton of neglect and emotional abuse going on there too, the parents just seem really shit.). Also I think that Josh's risk to his kids should be evaluated, and he should get treatment for it if he is a risk, but even if they are 99% sure he is never going to reoffend, he needs counselling because a mentally healthy 14 year old does not do that, so there must be something going on there. I don't know how much the girls are feeling about it, or what they got in the form of support when it happened, but I imagine that they are feeling pretty shitty right now because it has all come out, so I think they could do with some counselling too.