Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 5

[ApologistsBeDamned]

GOP ally suggests criminal charges for police chief who released Duggar sex abuse Report

Now they go for the one who is really to blame for all this: The Police chief. This cult-club really sticks together.

But one has to admit, that the personality of victims of sexual abuse should be protected. It became clear from the report that the duggar girls have been the victims. But in this case I am really gals that the truth came out. When the Duggars, including the Girls, promote their Lifestyle they should let People know what their cult includes.

Us.newscodex.com/gop-ally-suggests-criminal-charges-for-police-chief-who-released-duggar-sex-abuse-report-d198a86ee9e549f0a8edded4162227ca

NOT a huge fan of the Arkansas Police but this is ridiculous. The magazine made a legit request and as far as I can tell the docs released were in compliance with AR State Laws.

I do enough FOIA and police and court doc requests to not see anything glaringly wrong about the release. In fact it might have been possible to even request court docs since he was an adult when the report was filed.

I suspect this is cronyism and we will probably see some knee jerk legislation proposed.

All in an effort to protect these poor maligned Christians.

BTW This politician is from Cave Springs which is near Duggarville. I am sure he knows Jim Bob.

[nelliebelle1197]

Agreed with the bold. There is no known evidence of abuse of the boys, but it bears discussion as a possibility. Claiming that it is true based on what we know? No. But could it be possible? Certainly. Until a few days ago, there was no evidence of abuse of any of the girls, or anyone at all. Persistent rumors, but no evidence. So I think it's valid to discuss this as a possibility.

We should be concerned about all of the children. Even those who weren't abused in any way, they were witness to, if not the actual acts, then at least the fallout of it all. And that in and of itself would be bad enough.

Girl or boy, abused or not, they have all been done a grave disservice by their parents, their church elders, and the legal authorities.

Someone mentioned in an earlier part of this thread that Josh was given his own room in the TTH. Idle speculation perhaps. But someday we may look back and once again say, "the signs were there". As with all things, time will tell.

No, there is no know evidence and no reason to speculate. The owners and admins of this site have specifically asked that people NOT throw out idle speculation and make things up, but all of you think your opinions are more important than facts. There was in fact information and detailed rumor on this very site that the girls were abused by Josh. The person who brought the information forward claimed to know the Duggars and had details. Saying "I am convinced because I am convinced that Josh Duggar molested hamsters" is not the same thing. Alice and concernedmom shared information they claimed to have. They just weren't making stuff up and plenty of people did not believe even with detail provided. Why does unfounded speculation from people with no connection to any of this bear discussion?

I don't understand why the difference isn't obvious, and the fact that Happy Atheist has asked for this to stop don't mean anything.

[nastyhobbitses]

Does anyone else remember the episode where Jackson was running around collecting laundry and he couldn’t get in the girls room because the door was locked? Michelle joked that it was because they knew the cameras were out there and they weren’t camera ready yet. As much as their parents failed them, at least those girls could lock the door at night.

As much as I’d love to believe nothing has happened in many years, I’m concerned about Jenny and Johanna. Maybe, possibly, you could chalk Jenny’s consistent depressive state on personality traits, but there has been a stark, visible, change in Hanny in the last 12 months. I was concerned about both before this came out, even more so now. Has anyone else picked up on that?

I also wonder if TLC won’t announce a spinoff with the older kids. Most fans won’t balk at watching the victims as long as Josh is gone. If Derrik and Jill head to Nepal it would be a distraction and fill more than a few episodes. Then Jessa’s baby, Josiah’s wedding. They can fill a season with the kids, easily. There’s a reason they haven’t fully axed the show yet.

I really, really, really hope that Hannie and Jenny weren't touched. I'd hope that Michelle and JB have enough humanity left in them to try to protect the younger girls after they failed to protect the older ones.

[zygote373]

I AM NOT MINIMIZING WHAT HAPPENED BY THIS STATEMENT. I AM ONLY POINTING OUT SOME FACTS.

None of us know what was going through Josh's head when be did what he did.

There are an awful lot of people claiming he wouldn't have done this or that if he were or weren't a genuine predatory paedophile.

You don't know.

Saying he didn't molest this sibling or that sibling because she was too tall, looked older, was older than his preferences is also pure conjecture.

It is possible be picked his victims for no other reason than these ones were less likely to stop him, less likely to understand what was happening, more likely to go along with it at first, were more sound sleepers, were physically nearer when an urge struck, or just slept closer to a quick exit.

You don't know.

You have no idea what Josh was thinking. Did he do it secretly because he knew it was illegal, or because he felt shame, or because he just knew feeling anything was wrong. Maybe the first time he did it with a girl his age and in the spirit of curiosity and his parents flipped out so much he would rather not try that again.

You don't know.

You don't know what touching was involved nor the victims immediate reaction to it nor his reaction to their reaction.

You don't know.

AND WHILE WE ARE HERE...

You don't know what those victims really felt.

Sometimes things happen to you that other people think was horrible and must be life changing and should have ruined your life and you just think "Nah, it happened, sure it wasn't like I asked for it or anything but it wasn't life altering and I never think about it."

Don't put your emotions on those victims. That is their prerogative and how dare you claim you know more because of whatever happened in your life.

Some of these victims might have thought at the time Josh was just being strange, or they might have been asleep and were only told after the fact. Heck they may have been so indoctrinated that they just thought any touching between boy and girl wasn't allowed and feel no different about it than if some other boy touched them during a game of tag.

The point is you don't know.

Neither do I.

YES. I would also like to add that, while we know Josh and his sisters did not get real treatment before 2006, we do not know what kind of treatment they got afterwards through CPS and DHS. They filed that order that they were in need of family services and had to check in every six months. Also, Alice said they were in mandated counseling in her 2007 comments. I'm not saying it must be true because Alice said so, just that it's possible since she was right about so much else.

So for all we know, Josh HAS had real help. Maybe he's not likely to reoffend. Maybe his sisters have worked through anything they needed to work through long ago. We just don't know.

[polecat]

Re Michelle's medical bills:

Those bills are from 1992. Jinger said in the early moving special that she was born at home. She was born in 93.

I always just kind of assumed that home births were just kind of an ATI thing, and since I've never had to pay a medical bill in my life, the cost of having a child in the USA always slipped me. Sadly, I often forget that in the USA you have to pay for every single thing. Including birthing a child. There are no government freebies, even for things like cancer treatment. That boggles me, being raised in the land of universal health care. Anyway. My point was that I guess that explains the whole ATI home birth obsession.... give birth at home for free. Putting money over the health of the mother? Strong. family. values

A uterus is replaceable. Progeny isn't.

(Please note the sarcasm.)

[Palimpsest]

NOT a huge fan of the Arkansas Police but this is ridiculous. The magazine made a legit request and as far as I can tell the docs released were in compliance with AR State Laws.

I do enough FOIA and police and court doc requests to not see anything glaringly wrong about the release. In fact it might have been possible to even request court docs since he was an adult when the report was filed.

I suspect this is cronyism and we will probably see some knee jerk legislation proposed.

All in an effort to protect these poor maligned Christians.

Yes, I agree with the bolded. This is an example of politicians bloviating and posturing for sound bites. State Sen. Bart Hester ® and other political Duggar cronies could file a knee-jerk bill or amendment but the horse has long left the barn on the release of the reports. It was clearly stated in several news articles that the Police Chief consulted the Mayor and legal counsel re. State Laws prior to releasing the documents to In Touch.

Contrary to popular belief, police reports are not covered by the same confidentiality laws as Human Services, even when it comes to minors, and FOIA definitely has its place. Those of us who are older remember when the names of rape victims were routinely published by the press. It took a lot of lobbying to get editors to agree voluntarily not to publish their names. It wasn't legislation that accomplished that, it was a major change in public opinion and attitudes.

It also seems that the destruction of the documents was completely legal, despite similar posturing and bloviating from the conspiracy theorists on the other side.

[FundieWatcher]

I'm fuming mad right now. A former co-worker posted her opinion on FB about the Duggar situation. I replied with mine. We had a difference of opinion but it was all very respectful. Then, some "lady" I don't know replies with this. Is this cunt threatening me? I mean I think, but her sentence structures are so bad I cannot tell

I'm not religious, but I'm going to have to practice some forgiveness here, for my on sanity. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[Idolatry]

@Sassypants what is even more disturbing is this family went on television talking about their lily white moral principles and I've read more dirt on them in the last few days alone then I've ever known about my whole family. I mean who would have thought a bunch of drinking, dancing, bingo playing Catholics were more holy than the Duggars.

This is exactly how I feel. I thought they were decent people and their dirt might be a Paula Deen, or money/IRS issues. This is far beyond what I imagined.

This is worse than any family I know in real life, and worse than anyone I would ever choose to associate myself with. I don't know one admitted child molestor/kiddie porn convict. Somehow Boob knows three? Four? Five? While putting on a holier-than-thou act??? Everyone should be disgusted.

[Catlover43]

Thank you for having this forum. The TLC Facebook page is just awful. Their fans/enablers are disgusting with their defense of Josh and their excuses-"he was playing doctor", it's a normal teen mistake","hormonal experimenting",and "it's only molestation if the offender is an adult".

[circularlogic]

Forgive me if this has already been said, but it strikes me as odd that the request to destroy the report happened so closely to the date the report was made public. does anyone know if when a FOIA request is made, if all parties are notified? this would mean that the duggars tried to destroy the report before it was able to be made public. it would imply that they knew for a period of time prior that this was going to blow up in there faces. it makes those looks on Ben's face have much more meaning.

I am having a hard time keeping up with the threads, as my son is home on leave and while this is super interesting, it is also triggering for me so i am trying to take it in small bites that i can handle and that won't throw me off while he is visiting. some things a son does not need to know about his momma.

anyone, hear if or for how long the duggars knew this was coming?

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

I'm fuming mad right now. A former co-worker posted her opinion on FB about the Duggar situation. I replied with mine. We had a difference of opinion but it was all very respectful. Then, some "lady" I don't know replies with this. Is this cunt threatening me? I mean I think, but her sentence structures are so bad I cannot tell

I'm not religious, but I'm going to have to practice some forgiveness here, for my on sanity. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

:wtf:

So many "Christians" that don't even know what the Bible they supposedly live by says:

Luke 9:54-56

And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, will you that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did?

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, You know not what manner of spirit you are of.

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

Of course it also says:

Mark 9:42

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.

Boob and J'Uterus, I'm looking extra hard at you.

[singsingsing]

Jim Bob and Michelle need to re-read the parts of the Bible about being able to tell a tree by its fruit, wolves in sheep's clothing, and what Jesus has to say about those who harm children. Then they need to take a good hard look at the false prophets and principles they've chosen to idolize and start making amends for the indescribable harm they have caused to their own children.

But don't worry. They won't.

[Palimpsest]

No, there is no know evidence and no reason to speculate. The owners and admins of this site have specifically asked that people NOT throw out idle speculation and make things up, but all of you think your opinions are more important than facts. There was in fact information and detailed rumor on this very site that the girls were abused by Josh. The person who brought the information forward claimed to know the Duggars and had details. Saying "I am convinced because I am convinced that Josh Duggar molested hamsters" is not the same thing. Alice and concernedmom shared information they claimed to have. They just weren't making stuff up and plenty of people did not believe even with detail provided. Why does unfounded speculation from people with no connection to any of this bear discussion?

I don't understand why the difference isn't obvious, and the fact that Happy Atheist has asked for this to stop don't mean anything.

What Nelliebelle said. x1,000.

[Idolatry]

I'm fuming mad right now. A former co-worker posted her opinion on FB about the Duggar situation. I replied with mine. We had a difference of opinion but it was all very respectful. Then, some "lady" I don't know replies with this. Is this cunt threatening me? I mean I think, but her sentence structures are so bad I cannot tell

I'm not religious, but I'm going to have to practice some forgiveness here, for my on sanity. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

The helpmeets are helpful, but they don't have Facebook admin privileges.

[Palimpsest]

I'm fuming mad right now. A former co-worker posted her opinion on FB about the Duggar situation. I replied with mine. We had a difference of opinion but it was all very respectful. Then, some "lady" I don't know replies with this. Is this cunt threatening me? I mean I think, but her sentence structures are so bad I cannot tell

I'm not religious, but I'm going to have to practice some forgiveness here, for my on sanity. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

I'd report that to Facebook right away. It is very creepy. Facebook might not do anything, but still.

[nelliebelle1197]

I'm fuming mad right now. A former co-worker posted her opinion on FB about the Duggar situation. I replied with mine. We had a difference of opinion but it was all very respectful. Then, some "lady" I don't know replies with this. Is this cunt threatening me? I mean I think, but her sentence structures are so bad I cannot tell

I'm not religious, but I'm going to have to practice some forgiveness here, for my on sanity. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Well, you could ask her. It would also be nice if you edited your post to remove her name.

[justbecause]

I AM NOT MINIMIZING WHAT HAPPENED BY THIS STATEMENT. I AM ONLY POINTING OUT SOME FACTS.

None of us know what was going through Josh's head when be did what he did.

There are an awful lot of people claiming he wouldn't have done this or that if he were or weren't a genuine predatory paedophile.

You don't know.

Saying he didn't molest this sibling or that sibling because she was too tall, looked older, was older than his preferences is also pure conjecture.

It is possible be picked his victims for no other reason than these ones were less likely to stop him, less likely to understand what was happening, more likely to go along with it at first, were more sound sleepers, were physically nearer when an urge struck, or just slept closer to a quick exit.

You don't know.

You have no idea what Josh was thinking. Did he do it secretly because he knew it was illegal, or because he felt shame, or because he just knew feeling anything was wrong. Maybe the first time he did it with a girl his age and in the spirit of curiosity and his parents flipped out so much he would rather not try that again.

You don't know.

You don't know what touching was involved nor the victims immediate reaction to it nor his reaction to their reaction.

You don't know.

AND WHILE WE ARE HERE...

You don't know what those victims really felt.

Sometimes things happen to you that other people think was horrible and must be life changing and should have ruined your life and you just think "Nah, it happened, sure it wasn't like I asked for it or anything but it wasn't life altering and I never think about it."

Don't put your emotions on those victims. That is their prerogative and how dare you claim you know more because of whatever happened in your life.

Some of these victims might have thought at the time Josh was just being strange, or they might have been asleep and were only told after the fact. Heck they may have been so indoctrinated that they just thought any touching between boy and girl wasn't allowed and feel no different about it than if some other boy touched them during a game of tag.

The point is you don't know.

Neither do I.

I think that there is plenty of research out there as to how most people feel in this type of situation that we can pretty well understand. Feelings when this type of thing happens and with their background I think we know and understand more than most.

Unless they are aliens ....

[Hera]

This is exactly how I feel. I thought they were decent people and their dirt might be a Paula Deen, or money/IRS issues. This is far beyond what I imagined.

This is worse than any family I know in real life, and worse than anyone I would ever choose to associate myself with. I don't know one admitted child molestor/kiddie porn convict. Somehow Boob knows three? Four? Five? While putting on a holier-than-thou act??? Everyone should be disgusted.

Right? I think I'll just stay over here with my drinking, swearing, liberal, gay, non-churchgoing crowd. We may all "be going to hell," but somehow, out of the lot of us, we've managed to never molest children or cover it up. Weird, I know.

[Cheetah]

NOT a huge fan of the Arkansas Police but this is ridiculous. The magazine made a legit request and as far as I can tell the docs released were in compliance with AR State Laws.

I do enough FOIA and police and court doc requests to not see anything glaringly wrong about the release. In fact it might have been possible to even request court docs since he was an adult when the report was filed.

I suspect this is cronyism and we will probably see some knee jerk legislation proposed.

All in an effort to protect these poor maligned Christians.

BTW This politician is from Cave Springs which is near Duggarville. I am sure he knows Jim Bob.

According to this news link, the police chief who released the doc was a) female and b) about to retire:

http://5newsonline.com/2015/05/23/senat ... me-report/

Which makes me wonder if this is another / THE reason this was released now (she's known about it for years, and now that her job won't be on the line anymore due to retirement, she leaked it).

[FundieWatcher]

Well, you could ask her. It would also be nice if you edited your post to remove her name.

I thought about removing her name. But she did reply publicly. And it isn't her real name anyway.

[justbecause]

This is exactly how I feel. I thought they were decent people and their dirt might be a Paula Deen, or money/IRS issues. This is far beyond what I imagined.

This is worse than any family I know in real life, and worse than anyone I would ever choose to associate myself with. I don't know one admitted child molestor/kiddie porn convict. Somehow Boob knows three? Four? Five? While putting on a holier-than-thou act??? Everyone should be disgusted.

What I have seen is that what they call their 'faith' and 'beliefs' are not what they adhere to 'in real life'. There will always be Christians walking around saying "Do not do as I do, but do as I say" and this is an example of that.

When God sent them a challenge to their faith, a hard situation they could have brought much glory to God. They could have handled this in a way that would have demonstrated their faith in action. Instead they chose to show by their actions that it is more important to keep up a farce, then to live the Godly life that we are called too.

[singsingsing]

No, we don't understand. We have very little information about what happened, and we have no idea how they processed it. It's totally inaccurate to say that everyone reacts to something like this the same way unless they're an alien. That kind of thinking is how you get police or medical professionals not believing that a woman was raped because she just doesn't seem upset enough, or people assuming some parent must have murdered their own child because they were seen laughing a week later. You have no idea how you would feel or react or process it until it happens to you, and even then you can't assume that anyone else would have the same experience.

[Arrowoftruth]

Does anyone else remember the episode where Jackson was running around collecting laundry and he couldn’t get in the girls room because the door was locked? Michelle joked that it was because they knew the cameras were out there and they weren’t camera ready yet. As much as their parents failed them, at least those girls could lock the door at night.

As much as I’d love to believe nothing has happened in many years, I’m concerned about Jenny and Johanna. Maybe, possibly, you could chalk Jenny’s consistent depressive state on personality traits, but there has been a stark, visible, change in Hanny in the last 12 months. I was concerned about both before this came out, even more so now. Has anyone else picked up on that?

I also wonder if TLC won’t announce a spinoff with the older kids. Most fans won’t balk at watching the victims as long as Josh is gone. If Derrik and Jill head to Nepal it would be a distraction and fill more than a few episodes. Then Jessa’s baby, Josiah’s wedding. They can fill a season with the kids, easily. There’s a reason they haven’t fully axed the show yet.

I'd lock the door, sneak out the window, and never come back.

[polecat]

Don't put your emotions on those victims. That is their prerogative and how dare you claim you know more because of whatever happened in your life.

I completely agree that it's not okay to assume anything about the victims, including their emotional state. But it bothers me to see anyone basically telling other survivors to STFU about their own stories. This has been triggering for me, which is why I shared mine, and I suspect, it's why other survivors chose to share theirs. It had nothing to do with ascribing my own emotions to anyone who was hurt by Josh and everything to do with saying, "Look, this is a part of that world, the fundy world. It happens and it happens every day. It happened to me."

I honestly DON'T talk about it often for several reasons. But I will not be told to STFU about it, either, just because someone comes along and assumes I am doing something I'm not.

(Also, I DO know more about fundamentalist Christianity than the average person on the street because I was born and raised in it, educated in it and steeped in it from my earliest memories until well after I managed to get out.)

[nelliebelle1197]

I thought about removing her name. But she did reply publicly. And it isn't her real name anyway.

Okay. Good. Just didn't want anyone to get in trouble. Seriously, just ask her flat out. Calmly. She won't expect that. Then report back. :lol: