Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[OodOnTheLoo]

Giving the crisis management guy a huge side eye, too. How very convenient for his company that he was contacted about a big scandal in the news, but never will have to follow through with it because he "declined' to represent the Duggars.

That said, I can totally see why 2 lawyers and a PR firm would decline to represent the Duggars. Jim Bob Duggar has all the markings of a truly Pain In The Ass client. Cheap? Check. Know-it-all? Check. Control freak? Check. No one wants to represent someone who thinks they know best, refuses to listen to you, manages to make everything worse every time they speak, never shows gratitude for each time you save their ass and will question the bill and ask for a discount every month.

And wants you to let 8 kids watch what you do so they can learn to do lawyering as well...

[2manyKidzzz]

So we know for sure that Derick is an over zealous convert to Gothardism.....I didn't quite know that. Although I guess being married to Jill one could expect it. Is that written somewhere.....too bad, but I guess it makes sense. i can't imagine them with a bizillion kids.

[bella8050]

Happy to see that Access Hollywood covered In Touch's new issue.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/duggar-s ... paign=hero

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Sure. She just doesn't think the Duggars have ever been that big of a deal in greater Fayetteville/Bentonville/Springdale areas outside their own circles, which are pretty small. There is a lot of derision and embarrassment about them, especially among people who have wanted to push Bentonville area as a tasteful tourist destination with the Crystal Bridges museum and a few other attractions that have gone in. She didn't know until I told her though, that the cop Boob used to scare Josh straight was from Bella Vista - she has a house there on the lake and she was pretty horrified. She didn't have the house then, so she didn't know a child pornographer was so close! She does think some politicians are corrupt around there (don't get her started on the school superintendent in Bentonville) but no more than anywhere else and certainly not for the Duggars.

You have to remember that area is home to a lot of educated, non crazy religious people. My mom and her husband are socialist agnostics. There are a huge number of Walmart and Tyson and trucking executives and management big and small, tons of people in for the ancillary businesses around Walmart that are nothing like the Duggars - most of Walmart's biggest suppliers have offices there like Rubbermaid (my mom was always getting job offers from them). Tons of celebrated folk actually visit the WM home office to promote whatever project/partnership they have going on. My mom got to meet Norma Kamali, Steve Madden, Harrison Ford, Jerry Seinfeld, just a ton of famous people. When the Duggars would come by to promote a book or something it was a universal groan fest.

Well of course the area has a lot of outsiders because of Wal-Mart, Tyson, Jb hunt etc... but these outsiders have not been in the local goverment for decades.

And does your mother remember that Jim bob was a state representative? So he worked with and knew a great many in gov.

And of coure there are many smart non religious people in NWA. Heck I am an educated athiest who lived and worked there for many years and wouldn't call myself a hick but because I have a background in governmen I happen to have run into quite a lot of idiots working in gov back then.

COL STEVE DOZIER who in my opinion is an idiot ex cop went to work as a VP AT WALMART after he retired.

So even walmart isn't immune from the good ole boy mentAlity that is rampant there.

[wild little fox]

If it's true that he came twice to his father crying and upset about his own actions, I think he very much wanted some help understanding and controlling his behavior. I don't think he ever received anything but prayer closets and manual labor, so who knows how that might have twisted him up further in his head. And I can't even imagine how it would be for the victims, not only is it unlikely that they received anything but Gothard's counseling guidelines from their parents or church elders, but they would have seen the inadequate nature of their brother's "counseling", too. If (as seems likely) Gothard therapy was ineffective or created further feelings of shame in them, they also would have known that their brother and abuser was not receiving any better treatment. It must have been extremely scary for all of them.

I don't recall Josh going to his parents. I did read one or more of the girls needing to tell JimBoob at least twice about Josh's behavior. Could someone clairify, please. Is this something Josh alluded to in his "apology" statement?

[warriorblade8857]

That doesn't surprise me.

1) A lot--maybe most--people make excuses for friends/family/people they like for all kinds of things. Cognitive dissonance sucks. People can't handle that someone they like and trust did something horrible, so they tell themselves what they did wasn't that bad, or the person repented and is a better person now. That Josh was 14 at the time makes it easier.

2)More specific to Dan and Cathy...all the in-laws actually. What else can they say? Personally I think silence is golden but maybe they don't consider that an option. And the fact is, Derrick is a part of the Duggar family now. Not vocally supporting Josh will likely alienate Derrick. I think he'd cut ties with his mom and brother if they were to be anything but supportive of his in-laws. He's in too deep. Not only does he not want friction with his wife but he is an over-zealous convert to Gothardism. And if that weren't an issue, it Derrick would be ok with his family's private criticism and public silence, it still has to suck for them to see their in-law's family, and by extension Derrick, getting bombarded by the media. I can see wanting to appear supportive no matter what they privately think.

True, but I think if the in-laws seriously disapproved of Josh, Michelle, and Jim Bob, they would have written something more generic along the lines of, "We are standing by Derick and Jill in their hour of need...", "Please pray for them and rest of the Duggar family...", etc.

Personally, I agree that silence is golden.

[Snarkle Motion]

If only our society could seperate the thoughts from the actions. I'm sure many men (and women?) could be redirected with therapy and drastically reduce the amount of victims. These guys should be respected and supported instead of turned into social pariahs.

I have heard Dan Savage talk to a non-offending, self-diagnosed pedophile and he had so much self loathing and depression my heart went out to him. I will have to check out NPRs show as well.

I have to believe that everyone of these men we help saves 1-100 victims.

I'm training for a degree in the mental health field. Actually I have been avoiding a significant amount of graduate work by posting in this forum. ;)

I am still in training and this is by no means my area of specialty, but my understanding is that there is just not enough evidence out there to really understand this problem or how to effectively treat it. People in the field are SUPER cautious and reluctant to take on these types of clients. Not because people don't want to but because its so hard to get research (let alone treatment research) in this area funded or approved. It's "controversial" and institutions may be reluctant to take on the potential risk/liability.

Therefore no one really knows what is effective and most clinicians are unwilling to engage in therapy unless there is strong evidence or rationale that they are helping the client. Otherwise you try to refer to someone with more expertise. But in this case I'm guess very few people do have the experience or knowledge so that its very difficult to get treatment.

Using an addiction model might potentially be a really good start - essentially I'd imagine you are trying to help people avoid triggers, trouble shoot difficulties they anticipate, and commit to their values/motivations not to re-offend. But I know there are very serious ethical ramifications as well as possible legal liability that would make many clinicians hesitant to engage in treatment, especially without a strong empirical basis.

I started reading up on this the other day...when I wasn't totally consumed here...instead of doing my actual work. I have no idea how reputable this person is but I found it interesting/helpful if others wanted more info.

Not breaking link because its an article:

http://www.uic.edu/classes/socw/socw517 ... nnette.htm

[Toothfairy]

I I don't understand why the thumpers are saying this is a private family matter that should've never been brought up. I hate how some reality tv stars and celebrities want it both ways. You can't expose yourself on national tv that's deem reality then say you want privacy when you're making money off your private life. Stay off tv if you don't want to show your private life.

[singsingsing]

I don't recall Josh going to his parents. I did read one or more of the girls needing to tell JimBoob at least twice about Josh's behavior. Could someone clairify, please. Is this something Josh alluded to in his "apology" statement?

I believe based on my reading of the redacted police report that Josh was the one who initially went to Jim Bob to confess that he had been going into his sisters' room at night and groping them while they slept - i.e. Jim Bob first found out about it from Josh himself, not from one of the girls.

[SassyPants]

True, but I think if the in-laws seriously disapproved of Josh, Michelle, and Jim Bob, they would have written something more generic along the lines of, "We are standing by Derick and Jill in their hour of need...", "Please pray for them and rest of the Duggar family...", etc.

Personally, I agree that silence is golden.

The problem is no name of any person involved, with the exception of Josh as been disclosed.

So, the Seewalds can't come out in support of Ben and Jessa,

and Derick's family cannot evoke Derick and Jill's names. WE are not supposed to know the name of the parties beyond Josh.

I agree, a generic- "keeping our extended family in our prayers and thoughts"- says all that needs to be said.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Disclaimer: This is speculation on my part, derived from 1) having worked on several Republican political campaigns in a previous life and 2) connecting timelines. So - grain of salt and all.

I said several threads back I thought this info may have been leaked by a political campaign looking to root out potential threats in the leadup to 2016.

Rick Santorum announced today (one week after this scandal dropped) that he's running for Pres. It appears he is at least partially trying to re-brand as more of an economic conservative, with less focus on moral value issues. Fat chance of that happening after 2012...but I would think that he'd be in a position to have at least some information regarding the Duggars, they campaigned for him heavily in 2012. If he's trying to re-invent himself as a fiscal conservative instead of a moral majority religious right candidate, throwing the Duggars under the bus would be a logical thing to do, so they don't try to hitch on to his wagon with their circus.

That's my theory...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/us/po ... -race.html

ETA: These pictures will come back to bite him in the ass while he's trying to re-write history on Who Is Rick Santorum. http://www.eonline.com/news/660659/rick ... s-campaign

[ColeMarie86]

Agh I don't think they are interesting enough for that to happen. If it was the five oldest girls then I would as long as the money goes to them solely. I'd love for it to be about the unmarried girls moving out and getting an apartment in the nearest big city and pursuing education or starting a business as well as dating normally with Jessa and Jill on the side.

I haven't read past page 5 yet, but I really hope that too many advertisers pull back support for this to work. This is so inappropriate for them to continue backing this family. Did they get this idea from the Brady Brides?! :roll:

[SassyPants]

I I don't understand why the thumpers are saying this is a private family matter that should've never been brought up. I hate how some reality tv stars and celebrities want it both ways. You can't expose yourself on national tv that's deem reality then say you want privacy when you're making money off your private life. Stay off tv if you don't want to show your private life.

ALSO, there is a non-family member involved. So NO, this not just a private, family member.

JB rolled the privacy dice and LOST this time.

[Toothfairy]

I think Dan and Cathy will support Derrick even if they don't agree with him. Going against him might lead him to drink the koolaid

I swear JB will try to make a buck anyway he can.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Please do not insult mouth breathers. I am one, and I may not be particularly intelligent, I like to think that has more to do with other lifestyle factors than the fact that I just never really learned to breath through my nose, which is clogged half the year anyway.

Mouth breathers is a euphemism. In this case it fit the idiots I was referring to. It was not a nasal medical diagnosis.

[Sundaymorning]

Disclaimer: This is speculation on my part, derived from 1) having worked on several Republican political campaigns in a previous life and 2) connecting timelines. So - grain of salt and all.

I said several threads back I thought this info may have been leaked by a political campaign looking to root out potential threats in the leadup to 2016.

Rick Santorum announced today (one week after this scandal dropped) that he's running for Pres. It appears he is at least partially trying to re-brand as more of an economic conservative, with less focus on moral value issues. Fat chance of that happening after 2012...but I would think that he'd be in a position to have at least some information regarding the Duggars, they campaigned for him heavily in 2012. If he's trying to re-invent himself as a fiscal conservative instead of a moral majority religious right candidate, throwing the Duggars under the bus would be a logical thing to do, so they don't try to hitch on to his wagon with their circus.

That's my theory...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/us/po ... -race.html

ETA: These pictures will come back to bite him in the ass while he's trying to re-write history on Who Is Rick Santorum. http://www.eonline.com/news/660659/rick ... s-campaign

Well, the thing is that the Duggars endosed Huckabee already. And I don't think that the Duggar scandal will help Santorum in any way. On the contrary, since they endorsed him and since he has so many pics with Josh, their downfall could hurt him too.

The only reason for him to do such a thing would be to get the Duggars and Huckabee out of the way (as they are now his rivals in the primaries), but he couldn't know that Huckabee would react so foolishly on facebook. And again, since he has had so close ties with the Duggars in the past, the scandal could tarnish his image too.

So I doubt that Santorum is behind this.

[iheartchacos]

Are Blisterine and Alice the same person? Her posts read a lot like Alice's.

[SassyPants]

I think Dan and Cathy will support Derrick even if they don't agree with him. Going against him might lead him to drink the koolaid

I swear JB will try to make a buck anyway he can.[/quote

ABOVE ALL ELSE:

Above his marriage, family, religion, health- everything, JB worships the greenback.

He was willing to possibly tarnish his entire family by skirting this issue and still signing on the TLC line.

And dollars to doughnuts, he's been scheming for the last week trying to figure out a way to extract MONEY out of this horrible debacle.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Well, the thing is that the Duggars endosed Huckabee already. And I don't think that the Duggar scandal will help Santorum in any way. On the contrary, since they endorsed him and since he has so many pics with Josh, their downfall could hurt him too.

The only reason for him to do such a thing would be to get the Duggars and Huckabee out of the way (as they are now his rivals in the primaries), but he couldn't know that Huckabee would react so foolishly on facebook. And again, since he has had so close ties with the Duggars in the past, the scandal could tarnish his image too.

So I doubt that Santorum is behind this.

Possible...from the sounds of it he's going to aggressively attempt to white wash his history and be all about the working class. He might just try to spin this to his advantage (using it to sling mud at Huckabee, etc)...the guy is a total slimeball, I wouldn't put anything past him.

[JessaBlessa]

I think Dan and Cathy will support Derrick even if they don't agree with him. Going against him might lead him to drink the koolaid

I swear JB will try to make a buck anyway he can.

Maybe the in-laws were requested to make a supporting statement on social media. I wonder if there is any kind of "morality clause" in the Duggar's TLC contract.

[HeLaidItOnMyHeart]

I'm training for a degree in the mental health field. Actually I have been avoiding a significant amount of graduate work by posting in this forum. ;)

I am still in training and this is by no means my area of specialty, but my understanding is that there is just not enough evidence out there to really understand this problem or how to effectively treat it. People in the field are SUPER cautious and reluctant to take on these types of clients. Not because people don't want to but because its so hard to get research (let alone treatment research) in this area funded or approved. It's "controversial" and institutions may be reluctant to take on the potential risk/liability.

Therefore no one really knows what is effective and most clinicians are unwilling to engage in therapy unless there is strong evidence or rationale that they are helping the client. Otherwise you try to refer to someone with more expertise. But in this case I'm guess very few people do have the experience or knowledge so that its very difficult to get treatment.

Using an addiction model might potentially be a really good start - essentially I'd imagine you are trying to help people avoid triggers, trouble shoot difficulties they anticipate, and commit to their values/motivations not to re-offend. But I know there are very serious ethical ramifications as well as possible legal liability that would make many clinicians hesitant to engage in treatment, especially without a strong empirical basis.

I started reading up on this the other day...when I wasn't totally consumed here...instead of doing my actual work. I have no idea how reputable this person is but I found it interesting/helpful if others wanted more info.

Not breaking link because its an article:

http://www.uic.edu/classes/socw/socw517 ... nnette.htm

Thank you all for sharing! I found this interesting from an educational perspective (but it is still bristling to hear it). Is it more that people don't understand chemically or within the brain what is different/triggering this preference?

[lascuba]

So we know for sure that Derick is an over zealous convert to Gothardism.....I didn't quite know that. Although I guess being married to Jill one could expect it. Is that written somewhere.....too bad, but I guess it makes sense. i can't imagine them with a bizillion kids.

Eh, no one here knows anything for sure. That's been my assumption since learning that he contacted Jim Bob to be a prayer partner. Everything from the courtship to the enthusiastic participation in the show to the political and religious stuff he's posted has been further confirmation for me.

[treemom]

Here is an article about the same thing as TAL did. Be warned, it can be disturbing/triggery for some. https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-your ... 1ce4b88bdb

[runawayreptar]

For those that heard the Duggars hired a crisis manager

realmrhousewife.com/2015/05/27/exclusive-duggar-family-crisis-manager-not-hired/

[iheartchacos]

I still can't believe DHS was involved in this case and did not mandate real therapy. I've never seen anything like this!

Maybe it has to do with being notified after the fact? But as a social worker, I can't imagine a worker not implanting that as part of a plan. Monthly therapy and monitor in is nothing.