Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[Cheetah]

There's no doubt they had no idea the story would take off like a wildfire in August with no rain in sight.

I'm convinced they don't see this the way normal people do. So he diddled some girls, most of whom were his sisters. Big deal. He was a boy and the girls made it impossible for him to control himself. Recall what Michelle said in the final (ever?) 19 Kids episode about females being responsible for male sexual behavior. And Josh asked Jesus for forgiveness, forgiveness granted, move on.

Maybe the biggest thing they don't get is that most people absolutely despise hypocrites.

Honestly I think the biggest thing they don't get is that most people see nonconsensual sexual contact as a much bigger deal than masturbation or premarital sex.

[DuggaredOut]

I just want to address something about the Christian concept of God's forgiveness. The way my denomination teaches it, you cannot simply ask to be forgiven and viola, get forgiveness. You have to fulfill two other criteria 1. repentance, which means you have turned away from your previous behavior and chosen a different path. 2. Restitution to your victim, which of course includes apology but can also include monetary restitution.

I grew up in a Baptist church, and while monetary restitution wasn't really emphasized (unless, I suppose, you had stolen something), sincere repentance absolutely was. And if you had committed the kind of sin that seriously broke someone's trust, you were expected to demonstrate that you had really changed before you were "restored" to your former relationship with that person or your position within the church body. There was also an understanding that while God can forgive anything, some relationships or offices can't be restored here on Earth, that you can sin in a way that causes that relationship to be permanently altered or that forever disqualifies you from certain positions of authority or responsibility.

Actually, that's what I think the Duggars and their supporters are missing in all this. They keep throwing around Bible verses about forgiveness, but there are so many verses about discernment and holding people in leadership roles to a higher standard. The Duggars established themselves in a leadership role; they wanted the show to be their ministry. So it's entirely appropriate that Christians would use discernment to test whether they're upright and blameless, as the Bible says leaders are supposed to be.

Looks like they didn't pass the test, so it's time to step down from the pulpit.

[Arete]

I agree with you on all points except the one where you accuse evangelicals of twisting the doctrine of mercy. Josh Duggar's parents twisted it, not all evangelical Christians. I hope you know the difference.

I have to apologize for that. I originally wrote it out as " a fringe of American evangelicals...." to emphasize a minority movement, and wound up editing it to say something different. I was trying to get my frustration out of a fringe movement that has highjacked the representation of Christianity in this country.

[DuggaredOut]

You are absolutely right and I think that is why people prefer to use "survivor" instead of "victim" when talking about abuse because it imposes a label on the person with which they might not identify.

I absolutely do not think they have any obligation to address this issue. And part of me would like to "check in" with their family to see how they are doing. And while it feels unfair since they didn't do anything wrong, I'm not sure they could do a TV show without addressing the issue. It just feels like its become too big but maybe things will be different in time. However, I think most people will still have trouble watching the show due to the scandal. Not because they see the girls as victims of sexual abuse but because they see them as victims of their religious upbringing as the media has exposed more about their beliefs in wake of the scandal.

To me, the main danger of bringing the girls back for a spin-off is that they haven't renounced the Duggar victim blaming that enabled JB & M to cover up what Josh did in the first place, and they aren't likely to. Unless they specifically speak out against ATI at this point, they're Gothardites. They're representatives of a cult that blames little girls for enticing teenage boys and men to sin. To keep women who are raising children in those beliefs on the air is reprehensible, IMO. Jill and Jessa may put a better face on it than Michelle does, but they're still operating on the same damaging system.

[church_of_dog]

What is that Mr. Housewife site, anyway? I was wondering if it was legit at all. Frederick is the biggest goofball to ever manage a crisis, if you ask me.

Crisis response? I can't believe no one has called BRADRICK! yet...

[foxesden1]

long time lurker first time poster..

I also have lost all respect for the girls - the fact that they are living with, and condoning their brothers actions, now that they are adults/parents of their own - leads me to believe that they would do the same thing, with their own children - that their parents did. And clearly their husbands are also supporting the family - so I will not be watching a tv show spin off of any of the girls - unless they moved out, and away on their own.

[justbecause]

It will be interesting. Unfortunately JB&M are millionaires now so they can probably help out Ben for a looooong time. It will be super interesting IMO if they don't and Ben and Jessa, and Jill and Derrick have to fend for themselves financially.

I don't know. What ever happened to renting a small one bedroom apartment when you're starting out? Less than ideal, sure, but heh, they're young.

Really, if they would have waited a little while on the bundles of joy, it's not hard for people to make a go at it without any help.

[LittleOleMe]

The Duggar bit is in there during the first edit. It looks like March 21st, 8:17pm was the first post. However, her instagram has Duggar protesting things on there for weeks before that... there's even a news articles about it.

She claims that her family's circle knew about the Duggar molestations. That seems to be something a lot of people quietly know in those circles. The only reason she came out with it now is because the robo-calls offended her. She also says it took awhile for someone to pick up the story.

No idea if any of this is true, of course.

So Josh molesting young girls wasn't offensive in and of itself? His mother equating homosexuality and transgender people with child molesters is what did it?? That sounds incredibly selfish. I didn't buy this when I first saw this a few hours ago. And I still don't. I call bullshit.

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

long time lurker first time poster..

I also have lost all respect for the girls - the fact that they are living with, and condoning their brothers actions, now that they are adults/parents of their own - leads me to believe that they would do the same thing, with their own children - that their parents did. And clearly their husbands are also supporting the family - so I will not be watching a tv show spin off of any of the girls - unless they moved out, and away on their own.

Why do you believe the girls are condoning their brother''s actions? I haven't seen them say anything at all. I wouldn't expect them to.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Larry Wilmore talked about this tonight. Called Josh the "pink bubblegum ice cream" of the family" (referring to how not all 31 Baskin Robbins flavors are good).

Aww but I like the bubble gum ice cream. I don't want to picture Josh's nasty ass every time I eat it :( 3 lol

[GoFlamingo]

Do you think it's possible that the Dillard's and Seawalds don't realize that the oldest Duggar girls were the victims?

I mean they probably haven't read the police report, and may be avoiding mainstream media coverage. And if Jill and Jessa hasn't said anything to their husbands.

Although, at this point I don't know if it's really possible to not have a good idea who 4 out of the 5 were...

I also wonder if leghumpers want to defend Josh because they feel like they know him because they watch him on TV. Not realizing that they also watch 4 of his 5 victims on TV because they haven't read the right news coverage that includes that info.

[DaRealMVP]

Why do you believe the girls are condoning their brother''s actions? I haven't seen them say anything at all. I wouldn't expect them to.

Agree with above. I don't see them condoning their brother's actions. I see them dealing with it the way they were probably taught to, Jesus has forgiven him, so they should forgive him as well. Those affected probably wouldn't know any different, and they would think it's the only way to handle a situation like this.

I hope that made sense. It's been an emotionally tough day for me, so I should at least attempt to go to sleep.

[fabkiwi06]

Psychologically, I can see why the leghumpers are defending Josh. Maybe not from a moral standpoint though.

Imagine something you really enjoy. In my case, we'll say a boyband. I love this boyband. All I talk about is this boyband. I have spent a lot of time and money invested in this boyband. I'm emotionally attached to this boyband.

Now, let's pretend my favorite member of said boyband did the same crime and molested five underage girls. I'd be DEVASTATED and not want to believe it. I'd probably cry and start an ironic trending topic on Twitter. Here is this person whom I looked up to (maybe for all the wrong reasons) and now is showing a major flaw. That really sucks.

Now, I would hope that in this hypothetical situation I would pick my morality and lust for justice over idol worship of a boyband, but some people don't. They have the emotional maturity of a potato. We call them leghumpers.

[DuggaredOut]

long time lurker first time poster..

I also have lost all respect for the girls - the fact that they are living with, and condoning their brothers actions, now that they are adults/parents of their own - leads me to believe that they would do the same thing, with their own children - that their parents did. And clearly their husbands are also supporting the family - so I will not be watching a tv show spin off of any of the girls - unless they moved out, and away on their own.

To be fair, the girls themselves have not released any statements on Josh's actions, so we don't know how they actually feel toward him. But they've sat alongside Michelle and nodded as she spouted her victim-blaming nonsense and parroted many of her same lines, so they have, by default, endorsed those beliefs. I understand that they've been totally brainwashed since childhood and, even if they don't agree with ATI on every point, may feel forced to act as if they do in order to stay in the good graces of their family. BUT it doesn't mean they should get a TV show so they can continue representing for Gothard.

[TheMissus]

Do you think it's possible that the Dillard's and Seawalds don't realize that the oldest Duggar girls were the victims?

I mean they probably haven't read the police report, and may be avoiding mainstream media coverage. And if Jill and Jessa hasn't said anything to their husbands.

Although, at this point I don't know if it's really possible to not have a good idea who 4 out of the 5 were...

I also wonder if leghumpers want to defend Josh because they feel like they know him because they watch him on TV. Not realizing that they also watch 4 of his 5 victims on TV because they haven't read the right news coverage that includes that info.

They may be avoiding certain media sites and I've noticed that mainstream sites are avoiding mentioning that 4 of the 5 victims are his sisters and they are most assuredly avoiding the term incest. But, their comments are via social media so that is evidence that they are being exposed to the nitty gritty truth. There is no way to filter out the truth (or lies for that matter) when a person is connected to the world in that manner. The only option is to willfully deny reality.

[fabkiwi06]

long time lurker first time poster..

I also have lost all respect for the girls - the fact that they are living with, and condoning their brothers actions, now that they are adults/parents of their own - leads me to believe that they would do the same thing, with their own children - that their parents did. And clearly their husbands are also supporting the family - so I will not be watching a tv show spin off of any of the girls - unless they moved out, and away on their own.

What would they say? Honestly, at this point this family is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

I think it's quite sensible that Jessa and Jill have not said anything on their social media. If they are supporting Josh - and I supposed they have more of a right to judge him than we do in this case - then they are stronger people than I, and probably waiting for the official Duggar announcement to be decided. If they are not supporting Josh - and again, they are far more privy to that decision than I am - they're smart to keep quiet and let everything explode around them.

[wild little fox]

Do you think it's possible that the Dillard's and Seawalds don't realize that the oldest Duggar girls were the victims?

I mean they probably haven't read the police report, and may be avoiding mainstream media coverage. And if Jill and Jessa hasn't said anything to their husbands.

Although, at this point I don't know if it's really possible to not have a good idea who 4 out of the 5 were...

I also wonder if leghumpers want to defend Josh because they feel like they know him because they watch him on TV. Not realizing that they also watch 4 of his 5 victims on TV because they haven't read the right news coverage that includes that info.

When I was a Christian I often heard other Christians say "I don't want to know" when a controversy happened. Don't discount the old head in the sand of Denial. :(

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/j ... te-trooper

So does anyone else think that Anna and the Keller family where told THIS version of events as well? Just one unrelated victim once?

[Nic]

To me, the main danger of bringing the girls back for a spin-off is that they haven't renounced the Duggar victim blaming that enabled JB & M to cover up what Josh did in the first place, and they aren't likely to. Unless they specifically speak out against ATI at this point, they're Gothardites. They're representatives of a cult that blames little girls for enticing teenage boys and men to sin. To keep women who are raising children in those beliefs on the air is reprehensible, IMO. Jill and Jessa may put a better face on it than Michelle does, but they're still operating on the same damaging system.

To me, the main danger of bringing the girls back for a spin-off is that it would be a really boring show. I don't want to every week watch Jill trying understand why 1/4 is half of 1/2 even though 4 is bigger than 2. Or at Jessa's house watching Ben worship at the altar of Jessa... and do the pause-y talking, head tilting like he's a dog that is just learning to speak words, and these words are gonna be BRILLIANT in his opinion.

[skulduggery]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/josh-duggar-joseph-hutchens-state-trooper

So does anyone else think that Anna and the Keller family where told THIS version of events as well? Just one unrelated victim once?

I dunno, from all the comments I've seen from leghumpers; it appears to be the only version of events they're willing to believe.

[HuggleMonster]

I dunno, from all the comments I've seen from leghumpers; it appears to be the only version of events they're willing to believe.

I'm inclined to believe some of them don't even realise he molested anyone. Or didn't, unless they're totally avoiding the media.

Someone said to me that I had no proof he did anything bad. I was like uhhhhh, police reports. Some may actually he think he did something stupid but small.

[MisUndrstd]

I think most people by now realize what happened or who the victims were.. unless the live under a rock then they don't know. But I don't think people realize the ramifications of abuse, how painful and debilitating it can be if you are a victim, especially children. I think most of those that are defending Josh with phrases like... he was just a kid.. or ... they forgave him... or... it was so long ago, are in total denial that something like this never leaves the victim, time does not take it away, what happened 12 years ago can still be very fresh for a victim. So the people who are defending Josh/JB and Michelle at this point are not looking at the whole picture and they certainly are not empathetic to what the girls went through.

[DuggaredOut]

To me, the main danger of bringing the girls back for a spin-off is that it would be a really boring show. I don't want to every week watch Jill trying understand why 1/4 is half of 1/2 even though 4 is bigger than 2. Or at Jessa's house watching Ben worship at the altar of Jessa... and do the pause-y talking, head tilting like he's a dog that is just learning to speak words, and these words are gonna be BRILLIANT in his opinion.

Haha! Yeah, boredom can be dangerous. I've heard you can die of it. ;) But actually I don't think they'd have the girls just sit around if they did a spin-off. They'd cook up storylines for them, pay for them to travel here and there with their growing broods. One week it would be Jill and Derick go on a mission trip to Africa. And then the next it would be Ben goes job hunting, new degree in hand, while Jessa and Jill take the kids trail riding, and silliness with some stubborn horses ensues. Boring? Yeah. But no more so than 19KAC really. They could probably sustain it for at least a season or two. I just don't want them to. Because their little boys will be publicly taught the same attitudes toward their little girls that Josh was taught toward them.

[hancat]

:popcorn2: this is getting SO GOOD!

Giving up my lurker status because I finally have something to add to the conversation :dance:

If you look further back on her insta, you can see Melissa (supposedly the reporter from In Touch) reach out to her for Duggar dirt 4 weeks ago:

And then according to her, she and Melissa worked together to get the evidence (I think this part was already posted):

In recent posts she thanks both In Touch and Melissa for the help in getting the story out. If this is in fact where it started from, kudos to both of them! I reeeeally want to believe that this all came about because of Michelle's idiotic robo calls.

[amster]

Giving up my lurker status because I finally have something to add to the conversation :dance:

If you look further back on her insta, you can see Melissa (supposedly the reporter from In Touch) reach out to her for Duggar dirt 4 weeks ago:

And then according to her, she and Melissa worked together to get the evidence (I think this part was already posted):

In recent posts she thanks both In Touch and Melissa for the help in getting the story out. If this is in fact where it started from, kudos to both of them! I reeeeally want to believe that this all came about because of Michelle's idiotic robo calls.

Great first post!