Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[Firiel]

It must have been so frustrating for her. But one can see why there was skepticism. But, really, what more could she say? Could Alice and concernedmom be one and the same?

Maybe, but I don't think so. concernedmom seemed to have less insight into the scandal. I really believe she was a friend of the woman whose daughter was the fifth victim. She didn't seem to know anything about the siblings. She seemed to be a bit more amused by what happened (not in a bad way, but she writes "lol" to describe the idea that tight blouses tempted Josh). She also calls Josh a "poor boy" because he was blamed for the loss of the political race. That implies that she didn't know the lurid details of that particular instance and probably thought, like we did, that the scenario that time around was more normal teenage activity.

Alice, on the other hand, seems to know most of the details and, because of that, shows no sympathy to Josh whatsoever.

[Buzzard]

We havent discussed the pornography allegation . Exactly how does a 13/14 year old kid who lives in a house like a jail get porn? Did he snag it from boob?

Watching the funny or die video made me sad that we will never see another kid farm...

[Fascinated]

Maybe, but I don't think so. concernedmom seemed to have less insight into the scandal. I really believe she was a friend of the woman whose daughter was the fifth victim. She didn't seem to know anything about the siblings. She seemed to be a bit more amused by what happened (not in a bad way, but she writes "lol" to describe the idea that tight blouses tempted Josh). She also calls Josh a "poor boy" because he was blamed for the loss of the political race. That implies that she didn't know the lurid details of that particular instance and probably thought, like we did, that the scenario that time around was more normal teenage activity.

Alice, on the other hand, seems to know most of the details and, because of that, shows no sympathy to Josh whatsoever.

That's true, there is definitely a difference in the tone. So, I wonder where they have been over these past seven or so years. Did they continue in their efforts or just give up? It's shocking that, to my knowledge at least, only three people with this information came forward. Or, if the Oprah letter writer was a different person, then four. Out of how many people?? It boggles the mind that this remained just a 'rumour' all these years.

[SassyPants]

I don't understand your reasoning. Just because they've been brainwashed doesn't mean that they wouldn't feel shame or humiliation. Rather, if they did believe everything they're meant to believe as per their cult's guidelines, they would feel MORE guilt and humiliation. They're taught to believe that his transgressions were their fault, that they failed if he can't control his temptations, that purity of both sexes is dependent on the females. In what world would that not turn into negative feelings, especially if large amounts of people found out?

Not if they were true to "insert whatever religion you think applies". In their cult, if their abuser confesses and asks for forgiveness, which apparently he did, according to their cult, all is forgiven. The pull to forgive transgressions, especially those of a male (superior in their group) would likely override all else.

If the original incident was caused by you, would you double down by refusing to forgive and move on, as dictated by your beliefs? I doubt it.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Well here's a thought, is Evelyn "Alice"?

I would like to think that, if she were, she would do more than just post online. I mean, obviously Alice was worried about the girls, so wouldn't she try to do more if she was a family member?

[halcionne]

I've posted twice to Lowe's fb the hypocrisy of pulling ads from All-American Muslim and not 19KAC. They deleted the last one instantly. 8-)

[Quivertool]

That IS interesting. As more people write, and read, articles like this, it will have to gradually bring awareness to the masses. I can't imagine how many duggarfans have no idea about any of this. It's remarkable what's happening. Who would have thunk it would blow up in such spectacular fashion. Oh, how I would love to be a fly on a TTH wall.

That's what I've never been able to understand. I only found out about the Duggars a year ago when a coworker put the show on. He was amazed that I'd never heard of them, but I was immediately both fascinated and put off by the family and their show. I could tell -- almost immediately -- that something about these people was off. What they said in front of the cameras, the way the show was framed... I just got a bad feeling that they weren't just a wholesome Christian family. I think it only took me a couple of days to find out about ATI/IBLP and Quiverfull. I don't understand how so many people could watch them for years and not realize they were part of a cult. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the mainstream media has finally picked up on this stuff, but why did it have to take such a horrendous scandal to get people to care?

[halcionne]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/82a2f2d61f/the-duggars-respond

Oh god, the eyes!

I couldn't watch. Sexual abuse isn't funny to me, I guess.

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv ... ny-or-die/

[Firiel]

That's true, there is definitely a difference in the tone. So, I wonder where they have been over these past seven or so years. Did they continue in their efforts or just give up? It's shocking that, to my knowledge at least, only three people with this information came forward. Or, if the Oprah letter writer was a different person, then four. Out of how many people?? It boggles the mind that this remained just a 'rumour' all these years.

I think the Oprah person was different than concernedmom for the same reason I think Alice is different. And Alice says she knows the letter writer, which presumably means they are not the same person. (NOTE: At this point, I'm pretty much taking Alice's word as truth because, hey, it's all been right so far.)

So that leaves us with the following people:

concernedmom: Anonymous, but posted from an IP in Rogers, AR; presumably friends with the family of the fifth victim

Alice: Anonymous, but with a lot of inside info; claims to know the Oprah informant (do we know of any Holts or members of other families associated with the Duggars named Alice?)

Oprah informant: No one knows who this was, but was apparently in contact with Alice

InTouch informant: Tan Barnfield, prompted by Michelle's robocalls (apparently, her family, including her sister knew about the situation-- did they grow UP ATI or was it an open secret even outside the cult?)

[LittleOleMe]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/82a2f2d61f/the-duggars-respond

Oh god, the eyes!

"It's been really hard for us. and Josh. The only three people who really matter here" - well that hit the nail right on the head there didn't it?

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

I agree.

Looks like she was protecting herself. She must be someone close-

It seems logical that "Alice" and the initial knowledge about this came from concerned family members of Michelle's. The posts seem quite strongly felt, as would happen with someone you know well (and love). There are old articles where some family members express concern. Losing your family to a cult is hurtful, especially if you feel pushed out.

[Firiel]

I would like to think that, if she were, she would do more than just post online. I mean, obviously Alice was worried about the girls, so wouldn't she try to do more if she was a family member?

Alice also seemed very harsh with everyone in the family, in a way that I think a family member would not be. She condemns both parents for things not directly related to the sexual assault (Michelle for not taking care of her kids and Jim Bob for being a fame-whore). I think a family member would be more measured in that regard and less hostile outright (even if that hostility is deserved). If there is bad blood between Evelyn and Michelle, though (which is quite possible), that may get rid of the immediate impulse to see good intentions behind a loved one's egregious errors.

[Fascinated]

I think the Oprah person was different than concernedmom for the same reason I think Alice is different. And Alice says she knows the letter writer, which presumably means they are not the same person. (NOTE: At this point, I'm pretty much taking Alice's word as truth because, hey, it's all been right so far.)

So that leaves us with the following people:

concernedmom: Anonymous, but posted from an IP in Rogers, AR; presumably friends with the family of the fifth victim

Alice: Anonymous, but with a lot of inside info; claims to know the Oprah informant (do we know of any Holts or members of other families associated with the Duggars named Alice?)

Oprah informant: No one knows who this was, but was apparently in contact with Alice

InTouch informant: Tan Barnfield, prompted by Michelle's robocalls (apparently, her family, including her sister knew about the situation-- did they grow UP ATI or was it an open secret even outside the cult?)

And I suppose we could add whomever alerted the authorities after receiving the letter at Harpo.

[azeotrope]

So from concernedmom's take, the 'sin in the camp' episode would have been in 2006. Impossible to know if it was a normal human behavior or a predatory criminal behavior, but it at least shows that 2/3 years after being sent away for 'therapy', Josh was still having control issues.

Also, if the trooper is to be believed, if they didn't actually report those instances of molestation to the police, would the clock technically have started ticking as far as the SOL is concerned?

[SassyPants]

When you click on some of these links that have been posted and read the contents. It seems like enough people knew about the incidents. I am not surprised there seems to several people reporting accounts.

Interesting though that it appears that NONE were reported within the active SOL timeframe.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/82a2f2d61f/the-duggars-respond

Oh god, the eyes!

That guy got JB's voice down pat. I'm impressed.

The eyes remind me of the overly attached girlfriend meme. Lol

[SassyPants]

So from concernedmom's take, the 'sin in the camp' episode would have been in 2006. Impossible to know if it was a normal human behavior or a predatory criminal behavior, but it at least shows that 2/3 years after being sent away for 'therapy', Josh was still having control issues.

Also, if the trooper is to be believed, if they didn't actually report those instances of molestation to the police, would the clock technically have started ticking as far as the SOL is concerned?

VERY GOOD POINT. If there was no report, there would be no case. How could the time prior to 2006 even count in terms of the SOL timeframe, if there was no actual case?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

What gets me is that she told the posters that they could verify it all by calling up the police department or the DHS agencies they were reported to; but people still didn't believe her until recently. I mean, once the authorities are involved, that is substantial reason to think it's worth looking into, right?

I've been hearing these claims and about these sources for years but I wasn't going to go poking around trying to uncover the police report. I mean, there are people on the Internet every day who make ridiculous claims that have "proof if you look for it yourself," and those claims go no where.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think the Oprah person was different than concernedmom for the same reason I think Alice is different. And Alice says she knows the letter writer, which presumably means they are not the same person. (NOTE: At this point, I'm pretty much taking Alice's word as truth because, hey, it's all been right so far.)

So that leaves us with the following people:

concernedmom: Anonymous, but posted from an IP in Rogers, AR; presumably friends with the family of the fifth victim

Alice: Anonymous, but with a lot of inside info; claims to know the Oprah informant (do we know of any Holts or members of other families associated with the Duggars named Alice?)

Oprah informant: No one knows who this was, but was apparently in contact with Alice

InTouch informant: Tan Barnfield, prompted by Michelle's robocalls (apparently, her family, including her sister knew about the situation-- did they grow UP ATI or was it an open secret even outside the cult?)

But TLC didn't have a clue? Not even a whiff of a clue? No one dropped a dime? We may have had our doubts (I actually suspected there was some truth in there somewhere) but could TLC really have remained completely oblivious?

I hope the one victim who can still file a civil suit within the next 3 plus years gets a chance to at least consider filing one when she turns 18. She needn't even sue her parents or brother directly. There are quite a few potential targets out there, the State Police (for their employee's cover up) and TLC being among the biggest. I don't think it would be dragged out - she'd probably pick up a large settlement pretty quickly.

This potential suit may be one reason TLC is proceeding slowly here. Their attorneys have surely done the math on the time before the statute of limitations expires, and it even was mentioned on CNN yesterday that the sole remaining minor victim has years yet to take action.

[Firiel]

So from concernedmom's take, the 'sin in the camp' episode would have been in 2006. Impossible to know if it was a normal human behavior or a predatory criminal behavior, but it at least shows that 2/3 years after being sent away for 'therapy', Josh was still having control issues.

Also, if the trooper is to be believed, if they didn't actually report those instances of molestation to the police, would the clock technically have started ticking as far as the SOL is concerned?

No, concernedmom POSTED in 2005, so she wasn't referring to anything in 2006. According to her, the "sin in the camp" issue happened during Jim Holt's campaign for the US Senate which was in 2004. I need to re-read the police report to remember when Josh went away to "therapy."

EDIT: Josh was in "therapy" from March-July 2003 which would potentially mean that he was doing questionable things AFTER that. It's also possible he was sent away after he was caught during the campaign and when Holt lost, Josh's 2003 confession was the "sin in the camp."

SECOND EDIT: 2013 =/ 2003 :doh:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

We havent discussed the pornography allegation . Exactly how does a 13/14 year old kid who lives in a house like a jail get porn? Did he snag it from boob?

Watching the funny or die video made me sad that we will never see another kid farm...

The same way any 13/14 year old gets ahold of porno without computers: a friend, a relative's stash, shoplifted it from the store, found an catalogue that involved underwear or swim suits, etc.

[SassyPants]

But TLC didn't have a clue? Not even a whiff of a clue? No one dropped a dime? We may have had our doubts (I actually suspected there was some truth in there somewhere) but could TLC really have remained completely oblivious?

I hope the one victim who can still file a civil suit within the next 3 plus years gets a chance to at least consider filing one when she turns 18. She needn't even sue her parents or brother directly. There are quite a few potential targets out there, the State Police (for their employee's cover up) and TLC being among the biggest. I don't think it would be dragged out - she'd probably pick up a large settlement pretty quickly.

This potential suit may be one reason TLC is proceeding slowly here. Their attorneys have surely done the math on the time before the statute of limitations expires, and it even was mentioned on CNN yesterday that the sole remaining minor victim has years yet to take action.

Money drives everything.

[isleoflucy]

Re: The Bateses' response.

It's really quite cleverly done; all their fans can interpret it as they see fit.

1) Fundies: LIBRUL PERSECHUSHUN!!!1111ELEVENTY!!!

2) Mainstream Christians: We, Gil and Kelly, are praying for our friends, Jim Bob and Michelle, that they may see the harm their actions have caused and seek restitution and God's forgiveness.

3) Mainstream Christians and everyone else: We, the Bates family, are praying for our friends, the Duggar family (less Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh), that they may find peace and healing for any harm they have suffered as a result of Josh's actions, Jim Bob and Michelle's subsequent cover-up, and the recent revelation.

I'd like to think it's largely #3, with a bit of #2 thrown in, but I expect they really mean #1.

While I agree that it was cleverly done, I think we will find that in time they will fall on the side of the Duggars like everyone else. I'm not holding out for any fundies to suddenly realize the Duggars are not so godly. People kept thinking the Dillards' silence meant they were not standing by the Duggars but that was incorrect. I assume the Bates are standing by them but are not talking about it at this point.

[SassyPants]

No, concernedmom POSTED in 2005, so she wasn't referring to anything in 2006. According to her, the "sin in the camp" issue happened during Jim Holt's campaign for the US Senate which was in 2004. I need to re-read the police report to remember when Josh went away to "therapy."

She seemed to mention 2 accounts of abuse, outside of the home, didn't see?

Wasn't He in therapy in 2003?

[Firiel]

She seemed to mention 2 accounts of abuse, outside of the home, didn't see?

Wasn't He in therapy in 2003?

Yep, I updated my post above.