Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[paganhomeschooler]

Papparazzi didn't say anything specific or nasty, just asked if he had any comment. If I saw him, I would say a lot worse, no matter who was around. I have a feeling he brings out a lot of thoughts from others now. Paps is the least of his problems when he goes in public.

Yeah, I would try not to say anything in front of the littles, but if the Duggars are still ballsy enough to come to my neck of the woods for Alive, I will be looking for them, and I won't keep my mouth shut. I'm seriously considering going if they don't drop out.

[halcionne]

Interesting. It takes about an hour and a half to drive to Tulsa and there is the toll road which helps. So I wonder why they flew. Unless he flies to get his hours up. It is also possible he flies others around who pay him to stay over and wait for them?

There's an ongoing thread with more information here: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=23078

Flight history going back 30 days or so here: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N68SY/history

Flight Aware also has details on the ownership history of the plane.

[formergothardite]

1. Did the Duggars know beforehand?

Probably 24-48 hours. Not enough time to do any damage control but just enough to sit around and freak out about it.

2. Did TLC know?

I can't think of anyway that someone in TLC didn't know all this.

3) Did the Kellers and Anna really know what Josh had done, when Pa Keller hand-picked him for Anna?

IMO, absolutely. I think that one of the few truths the Duggars have told recently was that the Kellers knew from the beginning. The Kellers seem like true ATI believers so they would easily accept that what he did was a "mistake" and that he repented so it is all okay. In fact they would be looked down on if they had harshly judged Josh and not accepted his repentance.

4.Are the Kellers and/or the Seewalds truly supportive?

Probably.

5. The future of the show?

The 19 Kids and Counting days are over. Not even TLC will be able to find a way to stick Josh on the show. 19 Kids with One Kid We Can't Show just wouldn't make good television. IMO in about a year or so TLC will test the waters by having an update episode. Josh's kids might be mentioned but he won't be shown. TLC will watch to see if fans watch it and if people tune in to snark on it. TLC wants money, they don't give a shit why people are watching, they just want people to watch. If people are not so repulsed by the family that they refuse to watch, TLC might start having more update shows.

I'm going to add some questions:

6. Did the Bates know and were they concerned about Josh being around their daughters?

IMO, yes they knew, no they weren't concerned.

7. Will this impact Bringing Up Bates?

It really depends on how well the average UP viewer is able to see the connection between ATI teachings, the Duggars, and the Bates. Gil and Kelly are media savvy so there is a good possibility they can pull through this with most people not realizing they believe some really fucked up shit and that Gil sent his daughters off with a guy he knew had been accused countless times of inappropriate behaviors with teens. I'm going to be depressed if the Bates show stays on and we get more threads with people squeeing over how wonderful the Bates family is.

7. Will this help bring down ATI?

I sure hope so, but I rather doubt it. That crazy cult never seems to die no matter what scandal pops up.

[Fascinated]

Remembering that the abuse happened many years ago, at least to our knowledge, it may not be JB & M pushing for a spin-off, if that is indeed something that is in the works. It could be that the kids want to continue in some way. It's possible that they have enjoyed the experience, enjoyed becoming 'celebrities' and appearing on the cover of magazines and enjoyed the fact that they didn't have to be job type people. The revelation is new, not the molestation, and now it may all abruptly end as a result.

Perhaps, as someone suggested about a thousand pages ago, the cameras have been rolling as all of this has come to light. How interesting would it be to see how it all went down and how they are handling this PR disaster. What if we could see and hear the girls explaining (honestly) how they feel about what happened to them, and maybe even tell us how, or if, they have forgiven Josh. In other words, if they showed the truth. If they showed what happens to a family in a time of crisis such as this, without all the god stuff, well, I'd probably watch that.

[Arrowoftruth]

I feel bad for Anna that she has to leave D.C. 5 weeks before her baby is due. Unless they got lucky and the lease was up, why not have Anna stay in D.C. and deliver with her midwife that has been following her pregnancy? I would think way more photographers are lurking in Arkansas then in Maryland.

I thought I remember Anna being nervous about delivering away from the Duggars for the first time. Im sure in light of it all shes glad she can at least be back with them again.

[LilyRose]

I'm not 100% sold that the Kellers knew the full story.

One of the thing that is believable about the guy in jail for child porn's interview is the idea that JIm Bob down played what Josh had done. I imagine JB down played this as much as possible whenever he could possibly get away with it. I'd be astonished if anyone outside the family knows the full extent of what went on.

I would have thought that the Kellers and everyone else were given a tale of how Josh had some indiscretions with girls as a young teen- but I would imagine the actual ages of those girls, and the fact that they were his sisters was conveniently missed out of the conversation.

[zephyr]

This is my first post and I'm not sure, even after lurking forever, if this is the right place for this question so please be kind.

Also, I may have missed this if it was posted earlier - I admit to having skipped half of part 3, most of part 4, and all of part 5. I just couldn't take being that far behind anymore!

Maybe, with all the media attention, negative attention specifically, someone like HBO will start digging and put together a special like their Scientology one (which I have yet to see but would like to) on ATI, Gothard, and the rest of the cult.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Jezebel already has some info about this:

http://jezebel.com/court-records-reveal ... 1707192733

Oh God holy fuck, ewwwww.

Why the fuck would someone have that on their profile anyway? Its like they want people to think they are a pedo and stay away from them. Its like some kind of parody of what people think a child molester will be like.

And yeah, in this one case, I would probably trust that pedo over Jimbob. That really fucking says something, doesn't it?

I cant believe he lied to protect Josh. What a terrible person.

[HereticHick]

By they way, It is about 1200 miles (or 1950 kilometers) from where Josh and Anna have been living in the Maryland DC suburbs to the Duggar compound in Tontitown.

That is a long road trip, esp. when you are in your last trimester of pregnancy.

Is JD even allowed to fly that far?

[Janus]

I'm not 100% sold that the Kellers knew the full story.

One of the thing that is believable about the guy in jail for child porn's interview is the idea that JIm Bob down played what Josh had done. I imagine JB down played this as much as possible whenever he could possibly get away with it. I'd be astonished if anyone outside the family knows the full extent of what went on.

I agree. I think this was JB's attempt to scare Josh straight on the matter, and wasn't intended to actually help him or protect the girls. Basically just to make him stop doing it by the only method fundys use - fear.

[theinvisiblegirl]

I've been following part 6 all day, and I haven't seen anyone post this Buzzfeed article. (I feel like I'm posting too many Buzzfeed articles. Sorry!)

This article in particular stands out because the person who wrote it grew up in an evangelical church. Her family was not ATI/IBLP, though they almost joined, and they were influenced after deciding not to join. The article talks about how evangelical churches protect abusers like Josh.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lyzlenz/how-eva ... osh-duggar

I also just stumbled across an article from People called "Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar Are 'Focused on Their Faith and Each Other' and Not Their TV Show: Source" which can be found here: http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-c ... _peoplemag The People article is just a teaser for what they have in their magazine. There's no new information besides what this "source" is saying about how they aren't focused on losing their show.

I, personally, call bullshit that Jim Bob Duggar is not concerned about losing his precious money-maker.

[latraviata]

This is my first post and I'm not sure, even after lurking forever, if this is the right place for this question so please be kind.

Also, I may have missed this if it was posted earlier - I admit to having skipped half of part 3, most of part 4, and all of part 5. I just couldn't take being that far behind anymore!

Maybe, with all the media attention, negative attention specifically, someone like HBO will start digging and put together a special like their Scientology one (which I have yet to see but would like to) on ATI, Gothard, and the rest of the cult.

I have seen it (the scientology docu) it was excellent!

That would be a great idea!

[halcionne]

By they way, It is about 1200 miles (or 1950 kilometers) from where Josh and Anna have been living in the Maryland DC suburbs to the Duggar compound in Tontitown.

That is a long road trip, esp. when you are in your last trimester of pregnancy.

Is JD even allowed to fly that far?

JD has his private pilot's license and can fly wherever he wants, I think. Key word = private; he can't fly for pay from what I understand. He flies to Chicago all the time.

[mpheels]

Oh God holy fuck, ewwwww.

Why the fuck would someone have that on their profile anyway? Its like they want people to think they are a pedo and stay away from them. Its like some kind of parody of what people think a child molester will be like.

And yeah, in this one case, I would probably trust that pedo over Jimbob. That really fucking says something, doesn't it?

I cant believe he lied to protect Josh. What a terrible person.

I sadly have some insight into this. A friend's brother was arrested and convicted on child pornography charges, and one of the things that came out during the trial was the "culture" of chat rooms and fora frequented by men who trade images and videos. Part of the culture is trying to one-up each other with how crude and specific they could be with their preferences. I'm sure there are other ways to explain it, but it was explained to me when transcripts from chat rooms were introduced in court, and the defendant explained that he didn't really mean the worst things he said, he was really just trying to keep up with the guys.

[purposed2015]

Pulled this info from Wiki:

From 1999 to 2002, Duggar served in the Arkansas House of Representatives for the sixth district, which included part of northern Washington County, Arkansas.[4][5][6] Duggar was vice chair of the House Corrections and Criminal Law Subcommittee and also participated in the Insurance and Commerce Committee and Judiciary Committee.[7]

He also ran in the Republican Party of Arkansas primary election for the United States Senate in 2002, but lost to incumbent Senator Tim Hutchinson by a vote of 71,576 to 20,546.[8][9] Duggar sought the Republican nomination to the Arkansas State Senate District 35 seat in 2006,[10][11] but lost to candidate Bill Pritchard by 200 votes.

JB first notified of the incidents on 3/2002- according to the above^, JB would have been running for re-election at this time.

JB brought Josh in the following year 3/2003, when he was again notified of an incident.

FF- 2006, JB had just been defeated in his race, and case was being investigated.

Such weird timing.

Wonder if JB was in self-career-protection mode?

Being in the House of Rep. at that time (2002) would JB been away from the home perhaps overnight sometimes ? Maybe if he was this made it easier for J to pursue his perversions ? Just remembered, I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember they all lived in Little Rock at some time during his years as representative. Perhaps someone has some info on where they were at time ?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I sadly have some insight into this. A friend's brother was arrested and convicted on child pornography charges, and one of the things that came out during the trial was the "culture" of chat rooms and fora frequented by men who trade images and videos. Part of the culture is trying to one-up each other with how crude and specific they could be with their preferences. I'm sure there are other ways to explain it, but it was explained to me when transcripts from chat rooms were introduced in court, and the defendant explained that he didn't really mean the worst things he said, he was really just trying to keep up with the guys.

Ew, that's sick.

[Howl]

Highly recommended reading at Katie Botkin's blog: Culture, Adventure, Stillness

Yes, she is a first cousin to the Botkin sisters and niece of Geoffrey Botkin. Her writing about this issue is both insightful and incisive, in a word brilliant. From her most recent blog post, I have a sense that she might originally have been in a fundie type church and has left the fold after a divorce and how that fundie church dealt with it.

The posts are Why Josh Duggar won’t say “victim†and Consent, Theonomists and Josh Duggar

Linky not broken because Katie!

http://kbotkin.com/category/american-christianity/

[JuJuBee8]

I'm uncomfortable with the notion that the sisters are permanently destroyed by what happened to them. Perhaps they have more strength and resilience than they get credit for. There's an almost hysterical quality to some of the posts about how shattered they must be, all the suffering they've endured without ceasing since 2002, they had to sit with Josh at the dining table, etc. Don't underestimate the power of four sisters to exact retribution. He's probably had his food spit into, eyes that look right through him like he's not there, subtle snubs and contempt, never initiating a conversation with him, ignoring his attempts to ingratiate himself, giving him the side-eye when he engages one of the little girls in conversation, etc. There are a million ways they could have frozen him out, reminding him all the time that he's beneath contempt, while still keeping sweet. Death by a thousand cuts, so to speak. (Would you want to be Josh up against teenaged Jessa and Jinger? I wouldn't.)

Josh is a pariah in that family. His father blames him for the demise of his political career, so clearly Josh isn't Dad's favorite. Imagine getting reminded of THAT every time you annoy your father. His mother once dismissively stated (around the time of his marriage) that once he was married he wasn't going to get any financial help. She sure wasn't aglow with pride at her Joshie. None of the other kids, and I mean none, in any of the episodes I've seen treated Josh like the much-loved, idolized brother. Jill told on him, good for tattle-tale Jill, and you want to bet she's never once let him forget that she blew the whistle on his ass? He always swaggered around his family, talking loudly and boastfully, but I think now he was trying to compensate for his lowly status.

Someone posted the link to the Daily Mail article from today, how guests at Jill's wedding wondered why his wife and kids all had roles to play in her wedding, but not Josh. He is not a cherished, valued family member. What I'm trying to say is, he has most likely been punished over and over again by his family ever since he was fourteen. Current events do not suggest this will change anytime soon, given the devastating toll his past behavior is having on the family's financial empire.

[lascuba]

Re: Anna leaving DC with only a few weeks before her delivery. I don't think her midwife would drop her over what's come out. If anything--and because apparently not stating this explicitly means I'm claiming it as fact, JUST SPECULATION!--she might have refused to allow the birth to be filmed. I think until TLC makes a final decision they're continuing on as usual. TLC and the Duggars probably still have hope that all this will blow over, so they want to get the birth on tape.

[ThatsMyTaquito]

People assume that this will make the kids fear the real world more but I think its entirely possible that some of the backlash may actually have the opposite effect. The teenagers must question their lifestyle to a degree, even if this is frowned upon and discouraged. And they've been told that the world is evil and full of terrible people. But someone like Jana or Jinger and maybe some of the older boys may see the outrage the general public is feeling is actually validation of their own personal feelings about the situation and may actually prompt them to question their situation more. At least I can hope.

You read my mind, also if they managed to keep it hidden from some of them (kids/teens) as well and they are just now finding out about it. :think:

[Yoshimi]

There's an ongoing thread with more information here: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=23078

Flight history going back 30 days or so here: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N68SY/history

Flight Aware also has details on the ownership history of the plane.

Don't know if this is related but Derick has a lot of friends and relatives in the Oklahoma area. And I know JD has flown Derick and Jill to OK in the past . Is it possible that the Dillards wanted to get away from all the media frenzy back home and spend some time with Derick's extended family? I also believe one of Derick's cousins is getting married pretty soon, maybe they arrived a few days early for the wedding?

[littlesparklingflame]

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/27/19-kids-and-counting-advertisers-tlc-josh-duggar-molestation/

More and more advertisers are pulling the plug on advertising during the show.

In addition to General Mills and Wallgreens:

This is great, great news, hope there'll be more in the next few days.

[SassyPants]

Doesn't Derick have a FT job at WM?

[formergothardite]

I'm not 100% sold that the Kellers knew the full story.

One of the thing that is believable about the guy in jail for child porn's interview is the idea that JIm Bob down played what Josh had done. I imagine JB down played this as much as possible whenever he could possibly get away with it. I'd be astonished if anyone outside the family knows the full extent of what went on.

I would have thought that the Kellers and everyone else were given a tale of how Josh had some indiscretions with girls as a young teen- but I would imagine the actual ages of those girls, and the fact that they were his sisters was conveniently missed out of the conversation.

One of the reasons I think the Kellers knew while Jim Bob lied to the police officer is, despite everything, I do think JB really believes a lot Gothard shit and that would mean he would need to be honest with the Kellers. Honesty about past sexual problems is supposed to be brought up before a courtship began. JB also knew that the courtship would be filmed for television and there is no way he would want the Kellers to find out the truth about what happened and call off the courtship because they were lied to. Do I think they sat down and said "Josh molested children and four were his sisters."? No. But I do think that he probably had to describe what happened(without using the word molest) and confess to the Kellers right from the beginning.

[treemom]

According to the court docs he was found guilty of over 30 felonies of possession of images of child sex.

I imagine the way these convictions work it was ancharge for each individual image.

It depends on whether it was a federal or state conviction, but yes, in the experience of being married to someone who investigated kiddie porn for a decade the charge is for individuals. And if it is federal only for images that can be identified as actual children. If they can't identify he victim, they may not be able to get a conviction because it could be (damn it can't think of the acronym) digitally created. Of course this has now been many years ago, so YMMV today.

(A huge amount of the child porn that people get charged with are the same images. Possession versus creation is different too)