Question for Americans - flags?

[FloraKitty35]

American here. Grew up in the Great State of Maryland, where, incidentally, "The Star Spangled Banner" was written.. It is a matter of immense pride to bear the Stars and Stripes in a parade, procession, or even to display it on your house. There are rules... perhaps forms of etiquette, rather, in its display and even how to dispose of it.

The Stars stand for the states, of course. The red stripes stand for the blood shed to make this country free, and the white stripes for the purity (?) of its intentions, I believe. Could be wrong on that one.

It is to be handled with reverence/respect when it is displayed, and when it is put up and taken down. (Aside: for me, growing up Roman Catholic, it never seemed strange to me to attach this sort of care to the flag. Why? Because in the RC world, certain "sacramentals"... rosaries, blessed objects, etc. are handled with care and reverence. I would never wear my rosary around my neck as jewelry. It's specifically for prayer. Neither would I want to see my flag, symbol of my country, tattered and stained, or on the ground.)

That is why, when a flag is past its prime, it must be taken down and put away. You can give it to the Boy Scouts for proper ceremonial disposal. They burn them once or twice a year, depending on how many they get. (They are never to be simply put into the garbage.)

I get teary eyed every single time the National Anthem is played. When my kids were in band, and played it before sporting events, I nearly burst my buttons.. I guess I am a sappy and sentimental person, but I do take pride in my country, warts and all, and the flag is the symbol of that for me.

AFA Obama getting flack for not wearing a flag pin? That's so stupid. Just because many other Presidents HAVE does not mean that he MUST. Everybody knows who he is, even without the dumb flag pin.

FundielliciousTaterTot, I am editing here to add to your thoughts. The SSB was written during the shelling of Baltimore in the War of 1812, and I believe the flag has been a very potent symbol from the very beginning of that time. The Stars and Stripes took off very popularly.

I do remember reading some diaries of officers of the Confederacy during the Civil War, talking about the US flag and how it gave them pause to think they had to attack people bearing the flag. Many of them, graduates of West Point and so on, had sworn allegiance to that flag and that country.And now they were under another flag, sworn enemies of the US flag.

Those little flag pins make me think of the Nazis.

[FloraKitty35]

I love my country, I don't always like everything that it is does, but I still love my country without blind fascistic obedience. I also loathe American flag socks, shorts, clothes, etc... I don't have to wear a little pin or dress like I'm Lady Liberty's pimp to have some love for my country. I stand for the pledge, but I refuse to say "One Nation Under God".

[Four is Enough]

I love my country, I don't always like everything that it is does, but I still love my country without blind fascistic obedience. I also loathe American flag socks, shorts, clothes, etc... I don't have to wear a little pin or dress like I'm Lady Liberty's pimp to have some love for my country. I stand for the pledge, but I refuse to say "One Nation Under God".

I don't mind saying "under God"... I believe that God reveals himself to people differently, but is ultimately the same... but I ALSO don't fault people who DON'T say it... so if the pledge wavers in spots, it's ok with me. We're all Americans, after all.

[Fiveredandblack]

In Australia, on most days, our flag is something that just is. We don't fly it on our buildings or at our schools or at our homes as a matter of course. Australians who travel overseas will regularly have a flag somewhere on their person to identify themselves to other Aussies, but generally not in an over the top way. Unless there is some sort of international sporting fixture that we are part of, then over the top is the way to go.

FYI, the Australian flag has the British Union Jack in the top left corner, below this, on a blue field is the seven pointed Federation Star, for our states and territories. On the right on a blue field is the five star Southern Cross, a constellation only seen in the Southern Hemisphere.

There are two days during the year when the flag comes to the fore. Firstly, on 26 January, Australia Day. We commemorate that day in 1788 when six boatloads of sailors, soldiers and convicts landed at Sydney Cove with insufficient supplies and set about starting a penal colony. It's also a bit contentious as the Indigenous peoples call it White Invasion Day. Doesn't stop people making the most of a public holiday. And it also signals back to school after a six week break. (Our school year follows the calendar year.) You see lots of flag themed items around such as towels, stubby holder, eskies, thongs (for feet), t-shirts, umbrellas, caps, hats etc.

The other day is Anzac Day, 25 April. This is much more serious. We commemorate the day in 1915 that Australian troops, alongside New Zealand troops, first went into battle as Australians, not absorbed into the British Army. The day starts with Dawn Services in most major towns. These are followed later in the day by marches and other services at War Memorials. These are all taken very seriously, with more young people getting involved and wanting to keep the memories alive. Things loosen up around lunch time. The two up gets going, the drinks get flowing and everyone relaxes. The usual flag theme stuff is around, but it's not taken so casually.

The only other time we get excited about the flag is if someone suggests that we should change it. Ditch the Union Jack and get our own. Everyone has an opinion, and everyone is right. It will probably happen one day, but definitely not with this current Government.

Anyway, most of us will have an Australian flag somewhere about the house that we can pull out if need be. If not, our nearest bargain shop will have some, and the cups, napkins, tablecloth and giant hand to go with it.

[julie paradox]

... went to a Baptist church school until 4th grade... We pledged to the flag and then the Christian flag and then the Bible every. single. morning....

What is "the Christian flag"?

[formergothardite]

What is "the Christian flag"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag

Here is the pledges to the Christian flag and the Bible. It starts around the 1 min mark.

[bBvideo 560,340:vrebiboj]

[/bBvideo]

[DaffyDill]

Another Aussie here. Every so often I've seen a flag on a pole or whatever outside someones house, but it's not generally a done thing. We certainly don't pledge allegiance to out flag in schools etc.

Our current flag has been in existence since 1901 with one minor change; the addition of a 7th point to the formerly 6 point Commonwealth star, where each point represents our seven states and territories, increased due to the creation of the Australian Capital Territory where Canberra, the nations political capital was built. The 7th point was added in 1908.

Unlike Canada, we had this flag during WW1 and WW2, and yet our general attitude towards the flag is more like Canada's than the US. It comes out on important national days such as Australia Day, and Anzac Day, and sometimes people and sporting heroes drape one around themselves at sporting events.

We certainly don't own an Australian flag, and no one I know ever has - which is unlike America, or the America we see on TV/movies, where a lot of people have them outside their homes.

A lot of Aussies think Canada is rather like us - as we are both still part of the old Commonwealth, but neither are we English or American.

[16strong]

Nothing irks me more than republicans' insistence that the president (and basically anyone connected to politics) wear a flag lapel pin at all times. As if it's somehow supposed to indicate someone is more patriotic than others. I hardly think the president is going to be unpatriotic because, well, he's THE PRESIDENT. :doh:

[MaJessatic]

Yet another Aussie here.

As the others have said, we've got a flag. It's quite nice, if a bit fiddly to draw and we've had it a rather long time.

On Australia Day it's worn as a cape, on boardies, bikinis, you get tiny ones to fly from your car windows, big plastic ones as tablecloths...anything goes, really. I had a picnic on one, once. You wouldn't take one into an Invasion Day protest though.

On ANZAC Day it's much more serious. No flag-capes or bikinis, respectful but nowhere near the...I don't know, reverence? that some Americans place on theirs.

I'm not even sure we get that het up about our anthem, most of us don't even know there's a second verse. Seems to me people get much more excited over Waltzing Matilda.

I confess, I've always been fascinated by the US flag, and the Pledge of Allegiance. It seems so very alien to me! (But in a good way! I'm not bagging on it at all.)

[Maggie Mae]

Back when I was a prelaw student with a bunch of kids who have gone on to run for public officials on both sides, the flag pin was kind of a joke. Only it's actually a thing. So I think a lot of politicians just wear it because they think they have to.

[julie paradox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag

Here is the pledges to the Christian flag and the Bible. It starts around the 1 min mark.

Ok, thanks.

Ha, I've been an Anglican for 46 (almost) years and I've never seen anyone using that "Anglican Communion" flag.

[crazyforkate]

Ok, thanks.

Ha, I've been an Anglican for 46 (almost) years and I've never seen anyone using that "Anglican Communion" flag.

Daughter of an Anglican archbishop here.

We have a flag?

[halcionne]

I'm American. I don't own a flag. I don't have a lot of veterans in my family; maybe that's why. Unfortunately, where I live, the flag has started to represent something closer to blind jingoism than regular old patriotism. After 9/11, someone in my town painted a great big flag on his fence that could be seen on a high-traffic road. He got so much hate from people accusing him of being a jingoistic righty that he had to turn the boards over so the flag pointed in toward his yard. And he wrote a letter to the editor saying he felt very patriotic after 9/11 and wanted to share his love for his country with everyone, etc. And that yes, he is a liberal. I felt bad about how all of that went down. The bay area is like a different world sometimes. Flight 93 was bound for San Francisco; we are patriotic in our own way.

When I was in high school (late 80s) there was a big debate over whether it should be legal to burn or stomp on a flag, and my first response was of course, because we have the First Amendment. But a lot of people seem to think burning or otherwise disrespecting the flag is awful and should be illegal. Fast forward to Desert Storm in 1990 or so and I went out to march and protest the blood oil war or whatever my 18 year old self was calling it and even silly, angry, kid me was horrified when protesters burned and stomped on the flag three feet away from me. So I went home.

I still think it should be legal. And I like flag-themed clothes, especially the bikini where one boob is the stars and the other boob and the bottom are the stripes. :?

[2xx1xy1JD]

A lot of Aussies think Canada is rather like us - as we are both still part of the old Commonwealth, but neither are we English or American.

We have a friend who moved to Melbourne who keeps telling us that it reminds him of Toronto.

Personally, I think that New Zealand is even more like Canada than Australia is. We kept noticing how Kiwis kept their eye on what was happening "across the Tasman", while Aussies rarely referred to New Zealand at all. With both USA/Canada and Australia/New Zealand, you've got this dynamic with bigger country/smaller country, similar background of the majority group, and outsiders sometimes thinking that the smaller country is just part of the larger one. It was a bit weird when we visited Auckland to find that we had flown for 24 hours, only to arrive at a city that totally reminded us of Toronto.

[Deist woman]

The US flag started off with only 13 stars, one each for the original colonies. Each additional state that achieved statehood, earned representation by another star on the flag. There is actually a process that the residents of a territory must go through in order to be accepted as a new state. It has to be something that the majority of the citizens want, and that they work for, to be granted statehood. So the flag represents not only the US as a whole, but also represents the individual states who have joined together so that we can be stronger together than we would be alone. When you look at the 50 stars on the flag, and reflect that it represents 50 states, you can see the struggle that it often is, to keep those states cooperating for the greater good, rather than just splintering apart in self interest. So when we see the flag flying, we know that one of those stars represents us, in whichever state we reside. It is not one flag representing a homogeneous country; it is one flag celebrating our fragmented country, with all our differences, that despite all our squabbling and backbiting, that is still worth laying down our lives to preserve that union of our people.

Sorry if that sounds really scrambled. That is the best I can do to put it into words.

[DaffyDill]

We have a friend who moved to Melbourne who keeps telling us that it reminds him of Toronto.

I'm originally from Melbourne; was born in Northern Ireland, then lived in England, but grew up in and around Melbourne, and I've heard that said, too! I can't for the life of me remember who said it though...Maybe I knew your friend haha!

Yes, we do have the bigger country/smaller country dynamic going on with New Zealand, as the US does with Canada, but I think our news media reports quite often on happenings in NZ fairly often. A lot of Aussies holiday there and vice versa - my eldest son was there last year snowboarding.

We tend to have a fairly close relationship with NZ due to our shared ANZAC heritage. They also have their indigenous people (the Maoris) as we do with our Aboriginal population. From a purely Australian POV, I think our countries share a lot more similarities than differences (a Kiwi may disagree though), more similarities than the US shares with Canada, although admittedly I am no expert on US/Canadian relations, so I'd have to bow to your opinions there.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I'm an Air Force veteran, and I see the American flag as a symbol of unity; because the US is a fairly big country, divided by politics and religions and state lines and other things, a physical symbol of unity can be reassuring. I don't see it as sacred, but I do think respecting the symbol is important; maintaining the flag is symbolic of maintaining the country.

Of course, I'm also quite liberal and don't say the pledge of allegiance. The pledge is more about maintaining the image of patriotism than respecting the symbolic unity of the US or respecting military servicemembers or veterans.

Fun fact, though: if you're not sure what to do with a flag, you can call the most local Veterans' Affairs office -- whether administrative or medical -- and they usually have a collection box for old flags.

[The Duggar's Mohel]

The flag symbolizes freedom, and even if our politicians are trying to strip us of it, it's still something all of us want, and so we stand by what the flag represents. We had to fight to be free of England. Canada is still, in a way, part of England.

Zimbabwe also had to fight to be free of England (well it was called Rhodesia at the time) and having been there, i know they're not nearly the flag waivers that the US is, so.........

[Vivi_music]

Canadian here, and I have never felt very attached to the Maple Leaf. Maybe part of the reason is because I was born and raised in Quebec. That being said, I never defiled the flag or anything. It was just... the flag of our country. At least that's what I thought until I worked in a museum dedicated to Canada's war participation during WWII. Every morning, we had to put up the flags up out, in front of the museum. Not only did we hung the Canadian flag, but also the flags of the most of the allies. All of us tour guides were students. Only one guy in the guide team had done his military service. He was the one who explained to us some of the protocols to respect when you take the flags down and fold them. Overall the museum wasn't too strict, we didn't fold them like they do in the military. We simply had to make sure the flags didn't touch the ground, ever.

Once, I was in charge of taking the flags down and a whole regiment (from the Canadian military) was visiting the museum. They did a salute to the flag as I was talking it down. It made me feel SO NERVOUS! I was trying to remember all the protocols but couldn't. We never learn those things in school. Thankfully, they didn't say anything about how I folded the flags.

Overall, I don't think this experience really make me feel more patriotic, but it made me realize flags can be important to some people. So I take care not to offend anyone when it comes to flags.