Everything Josh Duggar, Child Molester - Part 7

[skulduggery]

Hey buzzard, thanks for taking the time to research and post all that.

[Buzzard]

Hey buzzard, thanks for taking the time to research and post all that.

Anytime.

Its very frustrating when someone "gets away" with crimes. I can only hope that all those who read this, should you ever be summoned for jury duty, remember this case should you encounter a case with a child victim. Children often have delayed disclosure, under disclosure, or inconsistent disclosure. It's not because they're liars, it's because there are outside pressures, shame, and fear that they would be in trouble.

[Blueruin]

Thanks again buzzard for the legalese (former Canadian don't really know the ins and outs of U.S. law)

I know the josh confession has been out for a few weeks now, but would it be possible for new victims to come forward with allegations post him turning 18, and would they be able to charge him in a different light (like jian ghomeshi in Canada whose offenses date back to 2002 last I checked)?

I'm wondering if all this attention could draw out more people to make a report against him, or perhaps if they see that the SOL ran out on him for the previous molestations if they'll just keep quiet.

[Buzzard]

Thanks again buzzard for the legalese (former Canadian don't really know the ins and outs of U.S. law)

I know the josh confession has been out for a few weeks now, but would it be possible for new victims to come forward with allegations post him turning 18, and would they be able to charge him in a different light (like jian ghomeshi in Canada whose offenses date back to 2002 last I checked)?

I'm wondering if all this attention could draw out more people to make a report against him, or perhaps if they see that the SOL ran out on him for the previous molestations if they'll just keep quiet.

New victims frequently come forward once a case is "out." If a victim came forward that was previously unknown and made a rape allegation then yes, it could be prosecuted.

Under the 2003 statute I don't think it's possible because Josh's age pretty much eliminates him from prosecution from all the tolled statutes that aren't rape.

There were some changes in the 2004 statute (and beyond) so if the offenses were committed then it's a possibility, but unlikely due to Josh's age.

I think Josh's days in juvenile court are over.

[grandmadugger]

First thanks Buzzard for are the legal clarifications.

Next I can't remember which one of you shared Jill R. but I now hate you. UGH!! Back to that rabbit hole.

[nelliebelle1197]

First thanks Buzzard for are the legal clarifications.

Next I can't remember which one of you shared Jill R. but I now hate you. UGH!! Back to that rabbit hole.

Don't forget to read her Facebook page and her blog!

[Arrowoftruth]

Literal tears. Cameras were there? I'll say it again, I hope the gosselin and Duggar kids sue the pants of TLC.

Omg...why so many hours?

[nelliebelle1197]

[Snarkle Motion]

The 5 known victims reported to the police. Their case is done. The only chance for prosecution is:

1) new victim who has never before made allegations AND the allegations are for crimes that would toll the statute AT THE TIME OF COMMISSION

Or

2) allegation from known victims that took place after the released investigation that were not reported to police and qualify to toll the statute at the time of the offense

Even if these things happen we are unlikely to ever know because he would be prosecuted in juvenile court for crimes that far in the past.

Not trying to annoy you. And I realize I've used up my personal allotment of patience or tolerance today so feel free to ignore me. But I really am curious as to how this works. I understand its at the time of commission. What I don't understand is what crime is then classified? If there is a change in how they classify crimes does the SOL apply to what it would have been classified at the time?

And I understand that the 5 known victims reported to the police. But how is that known? I mean, yes we saw the police report but I'm guessing that there's a formal system of assessing whether there is a police report and if a judge actively tried to remove any record of it then perhaps prosecution could commence on this technicality. There has to be a system for knowing this so people don't prosecute active police investigations and I'm sure there is precedent for challenging that? Like you have to be able to produce a police report? I guess that's what I was trying to say that even though we KNOW there was a police report that prosecution could possibly occur on a technicality.

So hypothetically, if no police report had ever been made, does the SOL (from the time the crime was committed) apply to sexual abuse in the first degree? Because from the document I saw from 2001 "A person commits sexual abuse in the first degree if: "(1) He engages in sexual contact with another person by forcible compulsion; or...". And the statute of limitations was tolling for sexual abuse in the first degree as of 2003 so that it could be prosecuted until 3 years after the victim reach 18?

[Blueruin]

First thanks Buzzard for are the legal clarifications.

Next I can't remember which one of you shared Jill R. but I now hate you. UGH!! Back to that rabbit hole.

I fall down in the sparkling misadventures threads, hearing about the Jill R threads, I think I know what I'm up to tonight.

And thanks for answering my question(s) buzzard!

[Lillybee]

According to the fake Josh Duggar blog. Grandma Mary bought Joshie's first house from Grandpa Ruack.

Some of this may be speculation but some looks legit.

fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/you-be-the-judge/

[nelliebelle1197]

I fall down in the sparkling misadventures threads, hearing about the Jill R threads, I think I know what I'm up to tonight.

And thanks for answering my question(s) buzzard!

You have to at least go back to Elijah's murder with Lauren. And you also have to detour by way of Currawong & Helena.

[Boogalou]

For those who are having trouble finding threads to post in, if you go to google search and type this, the Google search indexes might be easier to find what you're looking for:

"search string in quotation marks" site:freejinger.org

Example:

"honey boo boo" site:freejinger.org

Hit the enter button and kerblam! Fun times to be had by all.

From: another newbie 8-)

Yes, I find if the search isn't turning up what you want through FJ you can often get better results searching directly through Google. Thanks for sharing that.

Also, I like your username. At first I thought it was skullduggAry and thought it was a great pun! Have you played Lords of Waterdeep?

[nst]

Unfortunately I think "the community" was like this before the scandal and that is just bringing it out more. It seems clear to me that newcomers are not wanted. They are ignored or picked apart at any opportunity. I don't even want to read here anymore let alone try to be part of "the community". I'm disgusted enough that I'd rather read the Pickles page than come here again.

I am going to disagree with you - I felt welcomed as soon as I joined when was it last July -

the only reason I am in the PC is because I posted too many photos during the WAITING FOR IDDY phase circa APRIL :) so there you go

I think the molestation scandal just opened things up and it scares people

[Blueruin]

You have to at least go back to Elijah's murder with Lauren. And you also have to detour by way of Currawong & Helena.

I can not handle Helena, maybe because I'm a knitter but her "creations" drive me batty. And Curradong makes me roll my eyes. I managed to get through it all and the gayby thing. This site is like a bastion of knowledge and snark.

[happy atheist]

Not to beat a dead horse...but I had someone PM yesterday saying thank you for my post defending new people. This person also said that they were likely leaving FJ because of the hostile attitude here and that it felt really cliquey and high schoolish with the veteran posters. An admin prob has access to my PMs if anyone doubts this is the case. I get that people have to adjust to the cheeky nature of the culture here but lately it feels like a lot more than that.

!	{TEXT1}:
	We have no access to PMs.

[Buzzard]

Not trying to annoy you. And I realize I've used up my personal allotment of patience or tolerance today so feel free to ignore me. But I really am curious as to how this works. I understand its at the time of commission. What I don't understand is what crime is then classified? If there is a change in how they classify crimes does the SOL apply to what it would have been classified at the time?

And I understand that the 5 known victims reported to the police. But how is that known? I mean, yes we saw the police report but I'm guessing that there's a formal system of assessing whether there is a police report and if a judge actively tried to remove any record of it then perhaps prosecution could commence on this technicality. There has to be a system for knowing this so people don't prosecute active police investigations and I'm sure there is precedent for challenging that? Like you have to be able to produce a police report? I guess that's what I was trying to say that even though we KNOW there was a police report that prosecution could possibly occur on a technicality.

So hypothetically, if no police report had ever been made, does the SOL (from the time the crime was committed) apply to sexual abuse in the first degree? Because from the document I saw from 2001 "A person commits sexual abuse in the first degree if: "(1) He engages in sexual contact with another person by forcible compulsion; or...". And the statute of limitations was tolling for sexual abuse in the first degree as of 2003 so that it could be prosecuted until 3 years after the victim reach 18?

I guess the easiest way to think of it is completely forget about the judge's order. It's legally irrelevant. There's no technicality there and I'm quite sure the report still exists.

Any allegations made would be charged based upon the law at the time of the offense. Not the time of charging or the time of disclosure, the time of the offense. Once the charge is determined, they would then apply the statute of limitations also at the time of offense to determine if the statute has run.

If the elements of a crime change between commission and disclosure the charge is what it was at the time of commission. If there was no charge that existed at the time of commission nothing can be charged. It is always AT THE TIME OF THE CRIME.

If someone came forward and said they were held down and groped by josh in 2003 AND they turned 18 within the past 3 years AND HAD NEVER REPORTED THIS TO AUTHORITIES he could still be charged today.

tgats a lot of "ifs" for a case that would be handled in juvenile court and pretty much summarily closed. He would not have to register.

And with that, I'm going to bed. Be back tomorrow

[chelleinchicago]

I guess I went too fast on scrolling through the snarking on the snarkers, so... wait! Dr. Phil? I guess I should have expected him to jump in on this... he can't resist a good controversy, and this is so meaty!

That would be interesting considering Phil likes to remind everyone frequently that he's a mandated reporter. Not that it would matter in this case but it should definitely color the way he handles them if they appear.

Phil can be iffy. I wouldn't trust him to be as tough as he'd be with any other family in the same situation but then again, he might get annoyed with JB trying to control the show. That could interesting.

Hmmmm. Can't see it happening. Phil would offer rehab and counselling that they'd have to turn down.

[balsamicvinegar]

That would be interesting considering Phil likes to remind everyone frequently that he's a mandated reporter. Not that it would matter in this case but it should definitely color the way he handles them if they appear.

Phil can be iffy. I wouldn't trust him to be as tough as he'd be with any other family in the same situation but then again, he might get annoyed with JB trying to control the show. That could interesting.

Hmmmm. Can't see it happening. Phil would offer rehab and counselling that they'd have to turn down.

If they ever go on the show, I'd get back cable just to watch it. That would be a train wreck of the decade.

[doggie]

[treemom]

So I can speak to having a report destroyed. At my request, as part of my emancipation I requested reports destroyed related to some childhood abuse. The report is destroyed-ish. It effectively meant it wouldn't be used in court, couldn't be requested, etc.

That doesn't mean it actually ceased to exist. In fact, when I applied for private insurance during the time I was consulting from 2000-2003 I was required to provide documents relating to some of the abuse from childhood. When I requested my file again. (It was DCS and Police Investigations that were needed) the report was included but noted that it was not part of the official record, etc.

If you want, I can probably find it, taken and image and blur the identifying details if you are curious.

[happy atheist]

That's what I was trying to convey in my post - that it feels really frustrating to have all these high and mighty non-mod commenters lecturing about standards that they themselves were not following as recently as the baby dilly watch a couple weeks ago. It would be one thing if it was just about the rules but it feels like people just want new people gone and to stay in their insular bubble. Until a mod kicks me out I'm gonna keep voicing my opinions and if you don't like new people you can go somewhere else. :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

!	{TEXT1}:
	If you've really been lurking for years then you know we don't kick people out.

[grandmadugger]

According to the fake Josh Duggar blog. Grandma Mary bought Joshie's first house from Grandpa Ruack.

Some of this may be speculation but some looks legit.

https://fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/20 ... the-judge/

Ha we were covering the DHS case in the last thread.

There is record of Mary buying the house but I know nothing other than there is a deed transfer and yes there are lots of listing for mary and mortgages.

Back to the Jill R. rabbit hole.

[iheartchacos]

Is Grandma Mary the one who lives with the family? I always thought she was so timid and shy. Yet, Alice says she is driving the train to fame.

[SassyPants]

I also found:

At the 3:31 mark, a waitress at the restaurant that the Duggars were eating at said that they came last week with a family of 8 (the Holts) - starts at 3:40

Jim Holt explaining how he met JB starts at the 3:59 mark. (they met in 7th grade, both wanted to grow up and sell bibles and encyclopedias together in Kansas)

The Holts and Duggars are the "core" to the "homegrown church" every Sunday in the Duggar living room - starts at the 5:40 mark.

[bBvideo 560,340:39lk8pc2]

[/bBvideo]

So 2004, after these incidents, they left the kids alone, in the middle of the night, when they went to the hospital to deliver Jackson?

These 2 are just idiots.