Everything Josh Duggar, Child Molester - Part 7

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I have the intouch weekly magazine that says house of horrors. Was it already discussed or does someone have a question about it?

I don't live in the U.S. Are you able to photograph it and post it here?

[justbecause]

So the boys' room is full of fun stuff like tunnels and the girls get....a piano?

And a harp. There's a harp in the girls room.

[Arrowoftruth]

I don't live in the U.S. Are you able to photograph it and post it here?

Yeah I scan it tomorrow. Past midnight here.

[SassyPants]

I can almost understand the lack of blankets. But he lack of pillows is so weird.

No covers? I'd freeze and I live in CA.

[mebeforee]

Anyway, someone posted the Dolly Parton video, but I can't find where Jim Boob said he was tempted by her? Was this a joke?

That comment wasn't in the original clip/run of the show, it was in one of the Ask the Duggars episodes where they respond to viewer questions. They specifically referenced the trip to Dollywood, though I can't remember what the original question was and I'm not yet concerned enough about it to go through my old DVDs and look for the clip itself. I guess if people seemed interested enough I would try to track it down, but I just remembered it from a Q&A Duggar episode I've seen a couple of times.

[grandmadugger]

No covers? I'd freeze and I live in CA.

I used to live a couple hours north of them and can't imagine not having a blanket.

[happy atheist]

I thought the same thing when I saw it. I looked up another picture from a different angle. The last bed is in a little nook.

The bed in the cubby appears to have a blanket or comforter. Or a floppy air mattress. :?

[drivingmishcrazy]

My husband pointed out that the song "ain't no sunshine" sounds like "anal sunshine." And now that's all I can hear. Seriously...go listen and I bet you'll hear it too.

When I listen to Mariah Carey's song "Shake It Off" I hear the line as "I just got a chicken roll" :lol:

[16strong]

The simplest explanation for no pillows and covers in the boys' room is that Boob and J'chelle don't want anyone masturbating.

[LadyBlue]

I can't believe I read the whole thing (all 7 parts)! And I actually caught up! It's a miracle.

I had a lot of thoughts reading everything and, of course, I have forgotten them all now, except that I'm both curious & horrified about what Boob & DQ will say in their interview. I'm hoping for some hard hitting questions, but pretty sure that isn't going to happen.

I just feel terrible for all those kids, especially the girls.

[mycatismyheadship]

On the restaurant behavior topic, as a 10 year industry person...

Regarding "kids eat free" and the assertion that it isn't ok for them to divvy up the kids between older/younger kids and that it doesn't count, technically, in most establishments, it would. Most places that offer "kids eat free" nights have the fine print of one free kids meal per purchased adult plate (Referenced by another poster who had a single mom who was allowed only one free kids meal). So if mom and dad come in with two kids, the kids eat free. Mom and dad with three kids, one kid meal will still be charged. Now if mom and dad come in with four kids and one is a teenager who orders from the adult menu, they can get the three children's menu items for free. It isn't (usually) based on who is seen as an adult or not, but on how many adult plates are purchased. So with a family that size, figuring out who would order adult meals so that as many kid meals could be gotten for free might be cheap, but it is not in violation of the promotion in most cases. (And furthermore, it would probably be actually cheaper for them in the grand scheme of things to get kid meals for the "borderline" children, even if they had to pay for a couple, than to buy that many more adult entrees in order to get more free kid meals. But I digress)

But insisting gratuity be removed for such a large group (we don't auto grat at my place and everything is up to the guest and have often wished we could, plus some people assume tip is included and thus don't leave much) and then to leave 5%?!?!? This is completely offensive provided service was good (or heck, even just acceptable given the party size). I can't even describe the feelings I have about that, but any others of you who are in the industry will feel me.

[fundie_grandchild]

Apologies for this long post. I tried to be as brief as possible

My father was a fundie child (Mennonite) who left the church but kept a lot of the patriarchal practices. I (a girl) was the equivalent of ‘blanket trained’, so the only feelings I ever had were guilt and shame. I never complained about extreme neglect and abuse…. First, it was ‘normal’ so it genuinely did not occur to me to say I needed health care, for example. I was often punished for being ‘lazy’ because I was short sighted and could not see things pointed out for me to do. My only aim in life was to act like everyone else so I would be publicly shamed for being “attention seekingâ€.

The reason I bring this up is to illustrate why the Duggar survivors might not see themselves as victims. The problem with blanket training is that it all happens before language develops. Without language, we can’t think thoughts like, “this is unfairâ€. We grow up not understanding that we actually have any basic human rights. It is absolutely normal to accept any physical abuse of our bodies because “wanting†and “needing†are not things associated with being a child.

Although I will always be damaged to some extent by my “trainingâ€, (and I am 60 now) two life events were unexpectedly therapeutic.

The first was becoming a parent. I was shocked and surprised when my newborn baby cried and my instinct was to pick him up and comfort him. It was a real eye-opener for me to realise that that it is and automatic response to comfort your baby. This made me see my parents’ way of parenting me did not fit with my experience as a parent. I was 25 when I first considered the possibility that my parents were not good parents.

The next event was earth shattering. I was 35. I was chatting over coffee with a friend and described some minor incident in my childhood. It was no big deal to me at all, and was simply to illustrate something or other.

My friend was first appalled by my anecdote, then outraged by what I saw as a perfectly normal event. She had to explain to me why she was outraged. Finally, her outrage let me see that I had been severely and systematically abused as a child. I connected this realisation with this feeling I had always had, but had never understood. Many times as a child I was outraged by what was happening, but I was never allowed to express this or understand why I was outraged. I was never given a name to the feeling (such as I was given a name for the feeling that was ‘hungry’, for example. I was totally invisible, treated as an object rather than human being, and I thought this was normal.

My friend’s outrage on my behalf opened up my eyes that a) I had basic human rights b) no human being should be treated like that, c) I did not deserve any of this and d) It is normal to feel outraged.

As a result of my experience, I think that the publicity of Josh’s molestation of his sisters is not necessarily a totally negative thing in the long run (although I agree that their lack of control over the abuse going public reinforces that they have no rights and no say about anything that happens to them, but even this issue uses concepts (like personal agency) that they have no knowledge of).

My impression is the Duggar survivors have never been allowed become aware of their normal and justifiable feelings of outrage at the many injustices they have endured. e.g. Jana being made to give her prized possession to Jessa because Jessa was tormenting her (WTF!!!). Ditto for the girls having to forgive Josh for molesting them and then carrying the shame that THEY are impure, the most despicable thing in their world. Note also Michelle’s comment about not telling her children she was proud of them when Jill gave birth. These girls have been trained to believe that they are nothing but hymens before marriage and uteruses after marriage. Their job is to stay compliant and sweet until the day they official become a uterus.

I think that later on down the track, when these girls see the outrage expressed in the many public forums (outside and inside FJ), this will allow them to connect the dots their life of shaming neglect and their as yet unidentified emotions that they were denied and punished for experiencing.

Having another person demonstrate genuine outrage provided me with what I needed to feel like I was not invisible or simply an object to be used, like a chair. I think the public expressions of outrage will be very healing for the Duggar girls when they (probably accidently) come across examples of this outrage at how they were trained to be objects with no feelings and no human rights. This is a potent potential good that could well emerge from the current public exposure of their appalling life experiences as JB and Michelle’s daughters, even if they only get to see the public outcry years from now. I found genuine and sincere outrage to be extremely healing (much more than years of therapy).

[fraurosena]

When I listen to Mariah Carey's song "Shake It Off" I hear the line as "I just got a chicken roll" :lol:

Every time someone mentions malapropisms, I think of "Benny Lava".... it's an hilarious 'translation' of a Bollywood song. Be warned: if you watch, the song will stick with you for the rest of the day :lol:

[Lynni87]

Every time someone mentions malapropisms, I think of "Benny Lava".... it's an hilarious 'translation' of a Bollywood song. Be warned: if you watch, the song will stick with you for the rest of the day :lol:

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for posting this!! A friend showed me the video years ago and i couldn't stop laughing! Seeing it again has totally made my day! :D

[dawn]

OK, this is my version of events from 2002 to 2006, based on the information available (mostly the police report, Alice & concernedmom, and also the early Duggar specials). Some fill-in-the-gaps are my own speculation. Also, given what's being discussed in the last few pages: I've been thinking about all this for a few days but I'm actually writing very quickly and English is not my first language, so I'm sure there are mistakes.

--- --- ---

Spring 2002: Jim Bob is a member of the Arkansas House of Representatives and running in the primary for the US Senate

March 2002: Josh confesses to his father that he had been touching his sisters inappropriately as they slept. There was a family meeting were the family was told about it but we don’t know if there was any other action.

July 2003: Josh confesses to his father that he touched a family friend in her breasts as she slept (the friend was Concernedmom’s friend’s daughter and about Josh’s age). Jim Bob says he “disciplined†Josh. I’m guessing he also contacted the girl’s family, and the family stopped attending the home church group.

March 2003: While Jim Bob & Michelle are out, Josh pulls down his little sisters pants and touches her bottom. Then he runs from the room and calls his father telling him to come home at once because he needs forgiveness. Jim Bob takes Josh to a policeman he knows, tells him only about the non-related girl. The policeman never files a report

March 2003: Jim Bob & Michelle take the matter to the church group “eldersâ€. My suspicion is that they didn’t tell them everything but just enough to get their son “help†– I’m guessing they only revealed the incident with the non-related girl. Josh’s betrothal to a girl from the group (one of Jim Holt’s daughters) is put on hold.

March – July 2003: There is another family meeting, and then Josh is sent to remodeling camp to be cured.

Sometime in 2004: Concernedmom’s friends decide to attend the home church again and find a group that’s by now hyper aware of “sexual sin†and has turned vigilante on their own children

Summer 2004: The first special is filmed

November 2004: Jim Holt is defeated in the race for the Senate and starts looking for the “sin in the camp†that caused it

December 2004: the Duggars film a Christmas segment – Josh (and his hair) is there.

Early 2005: Josh admits to watching porn to the whole congregation. Later, he caves under the pressure and confesses (to a smaller group) about molesting his sisters (and, inadvertently, that his father covered up for him). His betrothal to the Holt girl is over for good and the Holts distance themselves (at least publicly) from the Duggars. We don’t know what Josh’s punishment was. Someone writes a letter telling the whole story and hides it in a book – My impression from the police report is that it could have been Josh’s betrothed.

April 2005: Concernedmom posts her story online. The Duggars move out of their home and into a rental. Shaved-head Josh is there. By early May (Big Sandy trip) his hair is growing out

Early 2006: The Duggars move into the TTH.

Spring 2006: Josh meets Anna, his parents think she’s the answer to their problem, only to be met with a wall in Pa Keller, who wants his daughter to wait until she’s 20.

December 2006: Police investigation

This story just makes me really sad for everyone involved – including Josh. And I’m angry at the parents. This thing has made me realize that they’re crappier parents than I thought they were – not because their son molested his sisters, but for their hypocrisy, for the way they handled things, for not teaching their children personal responsibility or how to be accountable to themselves. I’m still trying to figure out how they could possibly not have the foresight to avoid putting their family out there and making it everyone’s business – didn’t they ever think that when this story came out (like they always do) it would only make things that much harder for their kids?

That's all. I can't believe it took something like this to get me to post again.

:cry:

[MalteseBaby]

I thought the same thing when I saw it. I looked up another picture from a different angle. The last bed is in a little nook.

Regarding the two small boys in what looks like a nook or cubbyhole.

No, it's an opening that was built in their room which is or was connected to a bolted down type slide in the playroom.

The boys would get downstairs before the girls by sliding out the framed opening in the photo. It was a big thing when most of them were young and the house was new, etc.

I doubt it's used for anything but maybe a laundry toss downstairs now.

[Lewy]

On the restaurant behavior topic, as a 10 year industry person...

Regarding "kids eat free" and the assertion that it isn't ok for them to divvy up the kids between older/younger kids and that it doesn't count, technically, in most establishments, it would. Most places that offer "kids eat free" nights have the fine print of one free kids meal per purchased adult plate (Referenced by another poster who had a single mom who was allowed only one free kids meal). So if mom and dad come in with two kids, the kids eat free. Mom and dad with three kids, one kid meal will still be charged.

/

Yeah, my best friend is a single mother of two kids, and I'll often go eat with her at a place here that has that offer because with the two adult meals purchases, her kids can both eat free. It's her way of getting to go out occasionally with her kids without breaking the budget and since her kids are well behaved and polite (unlike the Duggar kids....), it doesn't bother me having them around.

[Alye]

I don't know how everyone started talking about mondegreens but I love it!

[VelociRapture]

OK, this is my version of events from 2002 to 2006, based on the information available (mostly the police report, Alice & concernedmom, and also the early Duggar specials). Some fill-in-the-gaps are my own speculation. Also, given what's being discussed in the last few pages: I've been thinking about all this for a few days but I'm actually writing very quickly and English is not my first language, so I'm sure there are mistakes.

--- --- ---

Spring 2002: Jim Bob is a member of the Arkansas House of Representatives and running in the primary for the US Senate

March 2002: Josh confesses to his father that he had been touching his sisters inappropriately as they slept. There was a family meeting were the family was told about it but we don’t know if there was any other action.

July 2003: Josh confesses to his father that he touched a family friend in her breasts as she slept (the friend was Concernedmom’s friend’s daughter and about Josh’s age). Jim Bob says he “disciplined†Josh. I’m guessing he also contacted the girl’s family, and the family stopped attending the home church group.

March 2003: While Jim Bob & Michelle are out, Josh pulls down his little sisters pants and touches her bottom. Then he runs from the room and calls his father telling him to come home at once because he needs forgiveness. Jim Bob takes Josh to a policeman he knows, tells him only about the non-related girl. The policeman never files a report

March 2003: Jim Bob & Michelle take the matter to the church group “eldersâ€. My suspicion is that they didn’t tell them everything but just enough to get their son “help†– I’m guessing they only revealed the incident with the non-related girl. Josh’s betrothal to a girl from the group (one of Jim Holt’s daughters) is put on hold.

March – July 2003: There is another family meeting, and then Josh is sent to remodeling camp to be cured.

Sometime in 2004: Concernedmom’s friends decide to attend the home church again and find a group that’s by now hyper aware of “sexual sin†and has turned vigilante on their own children

Summer 2004: The first special is filmed

November 2004: Jim Holt is defeated in the race for the Senate and starts looking for the “sin in the camp†that caused it

December 2004: the Duggars film a Christmas segment – Josh (and his hair) is there.

Early 2005: Josh admits to watching porn to the whole congregation. Later, he caves under the pressure and confesses (to a smaller group) about molesting his sisters (and, inadvertently, that his father covered up for him). His betrothal to the Holt girl is over for good and the Holts distance themselves (at least publicly) from the Duggars. We don’t know what Josh’s punishment was. Someone writes a letter telling the whole story and hides it in a book – My impression from the police report is that it could have been Josh’s betrothed.

April 2005: Concernedmom posts her story online. The Duggars move out of their home and into a rental. Shaved-head Josh is there. By early May (Big Sandy trip) his hair is growing out

Early 2006: The Duggars move into the TTH.

Spring 2006: Josh meets Anna, his parents think she’s the answer to their problem, only to be met with a wall in Pa Keller, who wants his daughter to wait until she’s 20.

December 2006: Police investigation

This story just makes me really sad for everyone involved – including Josh. And I’m angry at the parents. This thing has made me realize that they’re crappier parents than I thought they were – not because their son molested his sisters, but for their hypocrisy, for the way they handled things, for not teaching their children personal responsibility or how to be accountable to themselves. I’m still trying to figure out how they could possibly not have the foresight to avoid putting their family out there and making it everyone’s business – didn’t they ever think that when this story came out (like they always do) it would only make things that much harder for their kids?

That's all. I can't believe it took something like this to get me to post again.

:cry:

Popping in quick to say you did a great job summarizing! There were some dates that were mixed up, but it's easy enough to figure out when they happened. Thanks for posting that - hopefully it helps people out!

And now I'm gone again!

[rosastrohhut]

This Fox interview is very interesting. This could mean TLC is messing with their contracts. If this had been less molesty, you bet TLC would have taken first rights.

I also think they would have lawyered up. Even Boob isn't dumb enough to do this without a lawyer, right?

You bet he did. I guess they will have the questions handed to them before and check the answers with a lawyer (or a church eldest... ;)) and pray about them.

I guess Fox News does the interview, because as far as I understood they are the most conservatives out there in the world of tv news stations. Could be symbolic - "we take this matter seriously and we speak about it with serious, but conservative hosts". Damage control. But you are right - TLC could not have done it, they would look like total hypocrites, and in case they want to keep the show running they will not make any further comments.

Anyone thought of it to be the last final interview - after the one hour special they announce they will no longer be on tv and focus on missionary work other than teleevangelical reality shows? I am still hoping...

[alba]

Regarding the two small boys in what looks like a nook or cubbyhole.

No, it's an opening that was built in their room which is or was connected to a bolted down type slide in the playroom.

The boys would get downstairs before the girls by sliding out the framed opening in the photo. It was a big thing when most of them were young and the house was new, etc.

I doubt it's used for anything but maybe a laundry toss downstairs now.

Please excuse my shitty MSPaint skills, but I've put the two pictures together, complete with garish coloured circles:

The 'nook' the previous poster is referring to is the one circled in blue. JD is sitting on the table to the side of it in the first picture, and the bed next to the opening for the slide is in green.

[JingerSnaps]

Regarding the two small boys in what looks like a nook or cubbyhole.

No, it's an opening that was built in their room which is or was connected to a bolted down type slide in the playroom.

The boys would get downstairs before the girls by sliding out the framed opening in the photo. It was a big thing when most of them were young and the house was new, etc.

I doubt it's used for anything but maybe a laundry toss downstairs now.

That was not the nook I was talking about. The picture is cropped on mobile devices. The bed nook is on the very right side of the picture.

In the video on TLC about the boys room currently each have a comforter.

tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/boys-room-tour/

Now I feel like a total creeper for knowing way to much about the Duggar boy's bedrooms!

[justbecause]

I believe the tooth brushing happens before prayer time. The girls wear night gowns but it seems the boys sleep in their clothes. That way they're ready for the day when they get up, and no pajama laundry. And harder to defraud yourself in jeans.

Eta: he said it can take 2-6 hours to get everyone down for bed. :)

I'm not buying it. Probably for the cameras.

They think it is their 'ministry' to make their Patriarchy religion look fantastic. I think a lot of it is well thought out.

[JingerSnaps]

Please excuse my shitty MSPaint skills, but I've put the two pictures together, complete with garish coloured circles:

[attachment=0]Duggar Boys' Room.png[/attachment]

The 'nook' the previous poster is referring to is the one circled in blue. JD is sitting on the table to the side of it in the first picture, and the bed next to the opening for the slide is in green.

:worship: Color coding! There is no quicker way to my heart!

[ILoveJellybeans]

This is what scares me for those kids if the cameras go away. With the cameras it was safe there at least once a month. The kids had a chance to see the hypocrisy. Now? Will Josie even remember?

I do feel bad about the idea of the kids going back to that life :( Imagine going from running across the dining room table, screaming around the house and being a bit crazy, to beatings every day because everything you loved doing before is against the rules.

I totally guessed Michelle was an angry person under the crazy eyes and baby voice. She just seems like the kind of person who I can see absolutely screaming at whatever child pissed them off and threatening to absolutely beat the shit out of them.