Everything Josh Duggar, Child Molester - Part 7

[apandaaries]

Wait, what? This is a thing? I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Google "million dollar bill gospel tract." If I were good with images, I'd post one for you. There is footage out there (probably not from the show, but I can't recall) of JB and kids asking people, "Do you want a million dollars?" and presenting them with these tracts. I believe in NYC and elsewhere, family pics were given instead of donations to street buskers and such.

JB has no shame whatsoever, it seems.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

See this is the problem. I came on here AFTER these mega threads started. The first thread I went to had 42 pages. I'm sorry but I can't read through 42 ENTIRE pages, though I did read A LOT so I could get a hold on what was being discussed. So when I said I was skimming, it's because before I pose a question I want to make sure It wasn't just asked. So instead of not reading anything, I at least try to skim through 42 PAGES of text to see if it has been mentioned before. There is simply NO WAY I can spend literally hours upon hours to read every thread on this topic, and it's even more ridiculous to say all new members must read every post ever created before they dare comment as to not offend your eyes by having to read a question that has already been asked. I can only imagine how horrible that is for you.

But even that's not the real problem. The MEGA thread said it was now merging with another thread, so I went to that new thread and there were a total of 4 posts, all having to do with Jim Holt. However the conversation was already started in another thread so i didn't really understand what they were talking about. There were other threads linked in the new thread, so i went there hoping to find the talk on Jim Holt, nothing. I couldn't find were the conversation originated. So I asked, because I was already searching for a half an hour.

Additionally this forum is POORLY designed, the navigation is not intuitive. There are SO MANY different threads I don't even know where to start. I know the older members feel a sense of ownership on this forum but you cannot expect new member to read through THOUSANDS of posts to know if something was mentioned already. How many threads/posts do I need to read before it's acceptable to ask a question? There is a reason I'm the 50TH PERSON to ask, the forum is awful to find information. It's easy for you because you've been using it for a while and you get how it works, but I don't think I should be required to spend 5+ hours reading EVERY DAY before I have the right to comment. People asking questions that have already been asked, is a problem on every forum that has ever existed. However the way this site is set up, compounds that problem exponentially

Hey don't sweat it. You don't have to read everything. Try using the search if it something you want to know and if tyou can't find an answer quickly there then there is no shame is asking.

Let's not turn this into pages of discussion that newbies will need to wade through.

[apandaaries]

Oh calm the fuck down.

I'm not going to step too far into this fire, but I would like to nominate "calm your tits" as the salve for those burned by fiery posts.

And OKTBT, I really like your new avatar (in honor of Ireland, perhaps?). That canned chicken was the stuff of nightmares.

[Fascinated]

See this is the problem. I came on here AFTER these mega threads started. The first thread I went to had 42 pages. I'm sorry but I can't read through 42 ENTIRE pages, though I did read A LOT so I could get a hold on what was being discussed. So when I said I was skimming, it's because before I pose a question I want to make sure It wasn't just asked. So instead of not reading anything, I at least try to skim through 42 PAGES of text to see if it has been mentioned before. There is simply NO WAY I can spend literally hours upon hours to read every thread on this topic, and it's even more ridiculous to say all new members must read every post ever created before they dare comment as to not offend your eyes by having to read a question that has already been asked. I can only imagine how horrible that is for you.

But even that's not the real problem. The MEGA thread said it was now merging with another thread, so I went to that new thread and there were a total of 4 posts, all having to do with Jim Holt. However the conversation was already started in another thread so i didn't really understand what they were talking about. There were other threads linked in the new thread, so i went there hoping to find the talk on Jim Holt, nothing. I couldn't find were the conversation originated. So I asked, because I was already searching for a half an hour.

Additionally this forum is POORLY designed, the navigation is not intuitive. There are SO MANY different threads I don't even know where to start. I know the older members feel a sense of ownership on this forum but you cannot expect new member to read through THOUSANDS of posts to know if something was mentioned already. How many threads/posts do I need to read before it's acceptable to ask a question? There is a reason I'm the 50TH PERSON to ask, the forum is awful to find information. It's easy for you because you've been using it for a while and you get how it works, but I don't think I should be required to spend 5+ hours reading EVERY DAY before I have the right to comment. People asking questions that have already been asked, is a problem on every forum that has ever existed. However the way this site is set up, compounds that problem exponentially

I'm a newbie too and I did spend hours, well, days, really, reading many, many topics and threads. The difference, I think, is that many people have registered in order to comment immediately on the Josh case. And, I don't know how many members joined this week, but it is a lot! And quite a few are jumping in to post their thoughts and feelings without reading much of the previous threads.

This is why people get a little edgy. It's just this huge influx of new members, combined with rapidly moving threads. It's the perfect storm.

[VelociRapture]

See this is the problem. I came on here AFTER these mega threads started. The first thread I went to had 42 pages. I'm sorry but I can't read through 42 ENTIRE pages, though I did read A LOT so I could get a hold on what was being discussed. So when I said I was skimming, it's because before I pose a question I want to make sure It wasn't just asked. So instead of not reading anything, I at least try to skim through 42 PAGES of text to see if it has been mentioned before. There is simply NO WAY I can spend literally hours upon hours to read every thread on this topic, and it's even more ridiculous to say all new members must read every post ever created before they dare comment as to not offend your eyes by having to read a question that has already been asked. I can only imagine how horrible that is for you.

But even that's not the real problem. The MEGA thread said it was now merging with another thread, so I went to that new thread and there were a total of 4 posts, all having to do with Jim Holt. However the conversation was already started in another thread so i didn't really understand what they were talking about. There were other threads linked in the new thread, so i went there hoping to find the talk on Jim Holt, nothing. I couldn't find were the conversation originated. So I asked, because I was already searching for a half an hour.

Additionally this forum is POORLY designed, the navigation is not intuitive. There are SO MANY different threads I don't even know where to start. I know the older members feel a sense of ownership on this forum but you cannot expect new member to read through THOUSANDS of posts to know if something was mentioned already. How many threads/posts do I need to read before it's acceptable to ask a question? There is a reason I'm the 50TH PERSON to ask, the forum is awful to find information. It's easy for you because you've been using it for a while and you get how it works, but I don't think I should be required to spend 5+ hours reading EVERY DAY before I have the right to comment. People asking questions that have already been asked, is a problem on every forum that has ever existed. However the way this site is set up, compounds that problem exponentially

My best advice would be the following:

- You're correct that reading the entire thread isn't practical. I haven't read all of the threads and posts on here. I doubt most people have. I would suggest going back to Part 6, starting towards the end and then just reading until you catch up. That way you at least know the most recent topics that have been discussed.

- If you have a question about someone in particular, you can try using the search function at the top of the page. If that doesn't help, then the person might have a separate thread under the "Families and Individuals" forum. If not, feel free to ask who that specific person is, why they are being discussed, and where you can get that information.

- Also, feel free to private message any poster who seems to know a good amount about this stuff. Most people here are really very helpful and nice (tip: I don't know anything about Jim Holt other than he was a Minister at the Duggar's Church at some point).

I do agree that there are a lot of posters on here that could be more patient with the newer posters. This website can be difficult to navigate when you first get here - you'll get used to it after a while though - and the sheer amount of information is pretty mind-blowing at first.

A lot of posters are getting so frustrated because this news about Josh brought a pretty big wave of new posters to the website, all of whom want to know more about this culture, and all of whom are asking the same questions. It can get really annoying at times and when it keeps happening repeatedly in a short amount of time it can really cause tensions to rise.

Just do your best. Things will quiet down at some point and people will start acting normal again. I promise.

[moriah]

I am also a mandated reporter and have taken the training as part of several different roles I work in. Perhaps its different in my state but you have the option to report to the child abuse hotline or LOCAL POLICE. Making a report to local police would be sufficient to fulfill your mandated reporting duties. My point being if Holt had actually been someone who instigated the police report or was participating in the report vis a vis having an underage relative involved in the investigation he would have fulfilled mandated reporting laws.

Every state's mandated reporting laws and reporting processes are different. In some states, *everyone* has a mandated reporting obligation, not just doctors/teachers/clergy/etc.

In Arkansas, the law is specific that the mandated report must be made to the Hotline. Sadly, I once had to make such a report. In that case, circumstances demanded that law enforcement be contacted to address an immediate health and safety issue via a 911 call. As soon as immediate safety issues were resolved, however, I was taken to a private room at the precinct with a phone to make my mandated report before they would even let me make my statement to them. Just calling 911 and engaging law enforcement was not sufficient.

I think the reasoning is that it's better for everything to be handled by a centralized agency, and to keep from encouraging possible witness contamination by making that centralized agency the first to be told -- they get the freshest information that way.

[halcionne]

I'm a newbie too and I did spend hours, well, days, really, reading many, many topics and threads. The difference, I think, is that many people have registered in order to comment immediately on the Josh case. And, I don't know how many members joined this week, but it is a lot! And quite a few are jumping in to post their thoughts and feelings without reading much of the previous threads.

This is why people get a little edgy. It's just this huge influx of new members, combined with rapidly moving threads. It's the perfect storm.

Perfect storm, indeed. And we've been getting periodic waves of new members for almost a year now, since TWOP went down, which is why veterans are cranky sometimes.

[OkToBeTakei]

I'm not going to step too far into this fire, but I would like to nominate "calm your tits" as the salve for those burned by fiery posts.

And OKTBT, I really like your new avatar (in honor of Ireland, perhaps?). That canned chicken was the stuff of nightmares.

The chicken is always ready to re-appear.

I'm grumpy, I admit that. I don't think whining about how shit the site is, is going to make me less grumpy.

It is just making the threads unreadable though and no matter how nicely folks ask or post pointers, mods included it continues.

I apologise for my lairy tone. It sounds better in person. Honest.

[hennypenny]

Nice! Oh, the irony if the Duggars, Self-Proclaimed Poster Children for the Fundie Lifestyle, are the ones who bring the entire house of cards down. And all because they just couldn't help themselves from using their "perfect family" fame to spread the hate.

It's actually a bit better than that. It was her robo call. Michelle's hate-filled robo call is the reason it came tumbling down.

You know why? I think NWA was going to just let it go. They all knew about Josh and most of them said.nothing. There were SO many people that knew. How could they not? Generations and generations of relatives, friends, the same churches, the same politicians. That case went through police hands, cps hands, court hands. How many people really knew about it? A lot. A very lot. But in that town people treated it as a little of "none of my business". They didn't care. No one had an ax to grind with the Duggars. But when Michelle equates lgbt people to predators and child molesters that is the straw that broke the camel's back. For people that don't know, it's kind of liberal-ish in the area. Did Josh really think the people were going to forgive/forget? That the Duggars used hate speech against the same neighbors that decided "it was none of their business"? Yes, well, that didn't work out so well.

[JessaJessa]

I'm so intrigued by the Holts now. Their daughters wear pants! And sing Taylor Swift songs! And they are friends with Sierra on IG! She even visits their sick son in the hospital. Off to go search the Holts... I need more history.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

The chicken is always ready to re-appear.

I'm grumpy, I admit that. I don't think whining about how shit the site is, is going to make me less grumpy.

It is just making the threads unreadable though and no matter how nicely folks ask or post pointers, mods included it continues.

I apologise for my lairy tone. It sounds better in person. Honest.

It evens out. I tend to be way bitchiernin real life than on forums.

[ILoveJellybeans]

http://defamer.gawker.com/jim-bobs-puni ... 1707675683

Wow, that is one fucked up family.

And it is interesting that Jim Holt fits the bill for the elder who talked Jimbob out of getting Josh actual help. That is terrible, and another person to add to the list of people who let the Duggar girls down, and Josh too because it was his fault that he got no therapy or anything to stop him doing it again.

[formergothardite]

See this is the problem. I came on here AFTER these mega threads started. The first thread I went to had 42 pages. I'm sorry but I can't read through 42 ENTIRE pages, though I did read A LOT so I could get a hold on what was being discussed. So when I said I was skimming, it's because before I pose a question I want to make sure It wasn't just asked. So instead of not reading anything, I at least try to skim through 42 PAGES of text to see if it has been mentioned before. There is simply NO WAY I can spend literally hours upon hours to read every thread on this topic, and it's even more ridiculous to say all new members must read every post ever created before they dare comment as to not offend your eyes by having to read a question that has already been asked. I can only imagine how horrible that is for you.

But even that's not the real problem. The MEGA thread said it was now merging with another thread, so I went to that new thread and there were a total of 4 posts, all having to do with Jim Holt. However the conversation was already started in another thread so i didn't really understand what they were talking about. There were other threads linked in the new thread, so i went there hoping to find the talk on Jim Holt, nothing. I couldn't find were the conversation originated. So I asked, because I was already searching for a half an hour.

Additionally this forum is POORLY designed, the navigation is not intuitive. There are SO MANY different threads I don't even know where to start. I know the older members feel a sense of ownership on this forum but you cannot expect new member to read through THOUSANDS of posts to know if something was mentioned already. How many threads/posts do I need to read before it's acceptable to ask a question? There is a reason I'm the 50TH PERSON to ask, the forum is awful to find information. It's easy for you because you've been using it for a while and you get how it works, but I don't think I should be required to spend 5+ hours reading EVERY DAY before I have the right to comment. People asking questions that have already been asked, is a problem on every forum that has ever existed. However the way this site is set up, compounds that problem exponentially

I'm not being snarky at all I promise, but can you explain what makes the search function difficult for you? I personally can't keep up with what is going on in these threads and was confused by the Holt references too. So I went to advanced search, put Holt as the keyword, searched only in the Duggar forum, and had it only search for posts in the last day(I just guessed on the time frame). In like 30 seconds I got four pages of results that I could quickly read and figure out what was going on instead of the eleventy million pages that make up the Josh threads. Anyway, the search function here really doesn't seem any harder than any search function at other forums, at least to me. Maybe if you can explain what is making it harder it would help.

[lascuba]

I'm an old poster but really I don't post too much - kind of went away for awhile- seems like nowadays there's a lot of forum police in here - I don't remember everyone being so easily annoyed - please don't jump on me or explain why that is - just my opinion and this is just a message board

Reminds one of TwoP Howard, doesn't it?

I really think Israel's birth and the whole homebirth debate broke people. And then the influx of new posters due to the molestation rumors being true showed up, with the resulting repetitive posts and questions which are annoying on a good day, and people are extra irritable.

[Flyinthesoup]

I have been trying to search and see if Jim Holt is truly an 'ordained' minister. Back in part 6 of this thread, there were a few different lists for some education information. I'm trying to figure out, where did he get his 'ordination'? Anyone have a clue on this? Sorry, many baptist say they are 'ministers' without what I would see as credible credentials....I know various denominations do it differently. They say he's got his ordination as a Southern Baptist minister. Could someone in the know how help me out with this?

I guess ultimately, I am questioning if he really is 'ordained' or was he granted a minister type title.

TIA

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I'm so intrigued by the Holts now. Their daughters wear pants! And sing Taylor Swift songs! And they are friends with Sierra on IG! She even visits their sick son in the hospital. Off to go search the Holts... I need more history.

Their daughter Kaeliegh (the one rumored to be courting Josh) saved her first kiss for her wedding and her mother made a huge deal about it on social media. Even playing the video of the kiss.

[hennypenny]

Does anyone know if Tan Barnfield is on FJ? If she is send me a pm.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

[align=center][/align]

I have been trying to search and see if Jim Holt is truly an 'ordained' minister. Back in part 6 of this thread, there were a few different lists for some education information. I'm trying to figure out, where did he get his 'ordination'? Anyone have a clue on this? Sorry, many baptist say they are 'ministers' without what I would see as credible credentials....I know various denominations do it differently. They say he's got his ordination as a Southern Baptist minister. Could someone in the know how help me out with this?

I guess ultimately, I am questioning if he really is 'ordained' or was he granted a minister type title.

TIA

In bio it says he was ordained a baptist minister in 1996. Not sure if that was some state thung or internet or what. I will look.

[VelociRapture]

Quick question Mods:

Would it be a good idea to start a thread with general information about the main players and events in the molestation situation? That way new posters could have a place to go where they could get some quick and basic information?

[grandmadugger]

Of course, Jim Bob always wants the automatic gratuity (usually for 6 or more people) removed from his bill and he's a shitty tipper. Of course. As a former waitress who can well imagine the horrors of waiting on a table with that many children, this just solidifies my disgust for this man.

OT to the convo but goes with this

I heard a minister last summer preach on this very thing. He told the whole congregation that when they go out for dinner after church or any other time they needed to tip well. He didn't want his church to be "those people who just leave a tract". He was OK with them leaving tracts just as long as they left a good tip with it. It's a sad commentary when a minister has to bring that up.

[skulduggery]

Well, I just realized exactly what they were, like today. It's not that I'm dumb, I just had no idea what a Fundie was exactly

Don't feel bad, I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family and I didn't hear the word fundy until 2001. Before then, we were referred to as "religious" with a funny look. My mother identifies herself as a fundamentalist Christian to this day.

[PlaidFrumper]

My best advice would be the following:

- You're correct that reading the entire thread isn't practical. I haven't read all of the threads and posts on here. I doubt most people have. I would suggest going back to Part 6, starting towards the end and then just reading until you catch up. That way you at least know the most recent topics that have been discussed.

- If you have a question about someone in particular, you can try using the search function at the top of the page. If that doesn't help, then the person might have a separate thread under the "Families and Individuals" forum. If not, feel free to ask who that specific person is, why they are being discussed, and where you can get that information.

- Also, feel free to private message any poster who seems to know a good amount about this stuff. Most people here are really very helpful and nice (tip: I don't know anything about Jim Holt other than he was a Minister at the Duggar's Church at some point).

I do agree that there are a lot of posters on here that could be more patient with the newer posters. This website can be difficult to navigate when you first get here - you'll get used to it after a while though - and the sheer amount of information is pretty mind-blowing at first.

A lot of posters are getting so frustrated because this news about Josh brought a pretty big wave of new posters to the website, all of whom want to know more about this culture, and all of whom are asking the same questions. It can get really annoying at times and when it keeps happening repeatedly in a short amount of time it can really cause tensions to rise.

Just do your best. Things will quiet down at some point and people will start acting normal again. I promise.

A reasonable well thought out response and, thankfully, it seems to be the approach of most old timers. I've lurked here for years but never posted. For years people have been frustrated that the rest of the world doesn't know the evil behind the fundie curtain. I've seen post after post wishing there was a way to let people know what was going on or that the rest of the world would open their eyes. Well, this is it! People are interested, people are trying to find the truth, people are trying to contribute and there are a few posters here who are complete assholes to them. If skipping over a link that is being posted for the fourth time or taking a moment to explain something is the price for getting the information out to the world it would seem to be worth it.

[armedandlazy]

Perfect storm, indeed. And we've been getting periodic waves of new members for almost a year now, since TWOP went down, which is why veterans are cranky sometimes.

Just a suggestion, I see on a lot of other forums that have this issue, they have a static post at the beginning of each thread summarizing the main points or a "what we know so far" type of post. Here's an example from reddit when the Malaysian Plane was shot down over Ukraine http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2aykqv/malaysian_plane_going_from_amsterdam_to_kuala/

It doesn't need to be done all the time on every thread, but when a major news story breaks it's a great way to handle all the newbs and influx in traffic. No one on reddit is going to scroll through 8000 comments to see if their question had been asked or answered, and no one expects them too either, so this is a great way to address the main questions everyone keeps asking. It's just too confusing to find anything here. the search function is OK but only if you know precisely what your looking for and then if you didn't search the correct term and ask an already asked question, it seems to upset people.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

HIGNITE has at least five children and currently attends Rogers Christian Church.

[armedandlazy]

Quick question Mods:

Would it be a good idea to start a thread with general information about the main players and events in the molestation situation? That way new posters could have a place to go where they could get some quick and basic information?

this is a GREAT idea!!!

I already posted this but reddit does a great job of summarizing events in a thread so that when new people join they have a point of reference in which to post http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2aykqv/malaysian_plane_going_from_amsterdam_to_kuala/