Police officers: the good, the bad, and the off topic

[Maggie Mae]

I'm basing it off my husband's law enforcement career. He has been an officer since 98 and is now a sergeant. Part of becoming a sergeant is being trained in the IA department. Every complaint of abuse is taken seriously and every report is in the personnel file (even the frivolous ones where someone complains about being given a ticket) There have been several officers in his department denied promotions, demoted, or fired for inappropriate behavior. The IA department doesn't cover for anyone- they are not supervised by nor accountable to other police officers. They are chosen based on their performance and ethical behavior as an officer and supervisor and given extensive training in IA.

An officer who does something illegal or inappropriate will most likely do it again. The more evidence they have the faster they can get rid of him even if he is represented by the union. The union won't defend you if you clearly broke the law or the department rules. YMMV of course but no- not all departments are corrupt and it is not worthless to file complaints. You might not know the outcome but at least you know you are leaving a paper trail that will follow that officer throughout his career.

I do agree with you that once you are in the system it makes it harder to deal with law enforcement in the future. My husband and I both have juvenile records and he had a DUI when he was 18. That makes him more likely to try to give kids and young people a warning when he can so they won't be in the system. He tries not to arrest young people if there is any way to get the situation under control without having to make a new criminal out of a kid doing something stupid.

You have the knowledge and privilege to know who to talk to to "file a complaint," how to word it, where to send it. For people like my parents (undereducated, not tech savvy, older, easily manipulated) there is a lot of ways that the police can avoid receiving the complaint. The first person they talk to could say that there is nothing they can do. The complaint could just disappear. It's a lot of trust in a broken and corrupt system.

I'm not saying that all police are bad. Just that I limit my interactions with LE to the minimum possible requirements. If I see a police car behind me, I turn. If I see police on the sidewalk, I cross the street. If they show up at my house, I don't answer questions without a warrant. LE has specific procedures they are legally obligated to follow. I'm not going to let them cut corners.

[apple1]

Cincinnati lost a 27-year veteran police officer yesterday when he responded to a 911 call (later determined to be by the person who killed him) that was actually a suicide-by-cop request.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ham ... disonville

His bullet-proof vest did not save him.

The deceased officer was a previously-honored 27 year veteran of the department, father of 3, instructor in martial arts, husband, community member. He went to work yesterday morning and was a casualty while just doing his job.

This hasn't even been mentioned in national news.

[Fascinated]

Cincinnati lost a 27-year veteran police officer yesterday when he responded to a 911 call (later determined to be by the person who killed him) that was actually a suicide-by-cop request.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ham ... disonville

His bullet-proof vest did not save him.

The deceased officer was a previously-honored 27 year veteran of the department, father of 3, instructor in martial arts, husband, community member. He went to work yesterday morning and was a casualty while just doing his job.

This hasn't even been mentioned in national news.

This is horrendous and so incredibly sad. (I did see it on CNN's website.)

[apple1]

This is horrendous and so incredibly sad. (I did see it on CNN's website.)

Glad CNN finally put it up (they had not when I checked earlier).

[SassyPants]

I have 2 very close family members who are retired PO from the same, large force. One was a Captain, so a bit higher rank.

It is frightening how a 30+ police career in a large metro area can change a person.

I would not wish that job/career on anyone. It's a life changer.

I think there needs to be more frequent, periodic, psychological testing during the career path- lots more.

The stories and behaviors have affected many a holiday-

[Eighth-of-eleven]

I generally err on the side of the benefit of the doubt towards police doing their job...one of my brothers is ex-cop and I worked in a maximum security setting with offenders for years. I, however, had the unfortunate experience two years ago of having a stroke while driving. After my car rolled to a stop, very damaged from being run into some obstructions as I lost consciousness, the police came. I have very little memory of the events but from viewing the dash camera recording I can see that I was falling down, my speech was garbled, I was unable to understand what was being said to me and I remember my vision going black...

I was breathalyzed, no alcohol, blood tested, just medical meds, but they put me in jail anyway for DUI/prescription meds. I was not able to call anyone because from all I can remember, I couldn't figure out how to use a phone as I was in the middle of a Resolving Neurological Ischemic Deficit (long lasting Tia). long story short I wound up spending the next ten days in the hospital after I got out of jail...but lying on a cement floor floating in and out of conciousness in the drunk tank while having a stroke sucks ass. The DUI was eventually dismissed "in the interest of justice".

Edited for my usual stuff,...

[ShepherdontheRock]

Didn't know if this deserved a new thread, so I'll put it here:

Anyone else completely shocked/outraged at the Sandra Bland case? I just watched the dash cam video and I wanted to vomit.

edited for riffles

[DowntownAbbey]

Didn't know if this deserved a new thread, so I'll put it here:

Anyone else completely shocked/outraged at the Sandra Bland case? I just watched the dash cam video and I wanted to vomit.

edited for riffles

I just watched it earlier today. It already seems like a suspicious enough case with a woman getting arrested in what started as a simple traffic violation end up with her supposedly committing suicide.

NPR (http://www.npr.org/2015/07/22/425376966 ... top-rights) had a segment regarding the legality of what the officer and Sandra did during the traffic stop. I though this was an interesting point:

STOUGHTON: I think there are a couple of failures. The first is the officer's approach to miss Bland's irritation. He had the opportunity to connect and try and mitigate any of the tension of that encounter, and he didn't. He was very dismissive of her. When he requested that she put out the cigarette and she did not, then he became confrontational. At that point, he demanded that she leave the vehicle. By exercising his authority confrontationally and by doing it in a way that stripped her of power in the interaction, he potentially exacerbated a situation where confrontation was entirely avoidable. This case, tragic as the ending is, I think is also an example of lawful policing that is not good policing.

It came off to me as if the officer was offended that that she wouldn't put out her cigarette (which from what I've read could only be a request, not a lawful order) and because she was irritated at the ordeal and then escalated the event.

Also, it took him a full 5 minutes to get the warning/ticket ready. Does it usually take that long? I've only ever been pulled over once and I don't remember it taking more than 2 minutes for my warning slip. I don't remember how long it took to get my citation when I had an at-fault accident.

[Maggie Mae]

I just watched it earlier today. It already seems like a suspicious enough case with a woman getting arrested in what started as a simple traffic violation end up with her supposedly committing suicide.

NPR (http://www.npr.org/2015/07/22/425376966 ... top-rights) had a segment regarding the legality of what the officer and Sandra did during the traffic stop. I though this was an interesting point:

It came off to me as if the officer was offended that that she wouldn't put out her cigarette (which from what I've read could only be a request, not a lawful order) and because she was irritated at the ordeal and then escalated the event.

Also, it took him a full 5 minutes to get the warning/ticket ready. Does it usually take that long? I've only ever been pulled over once and I don't remember it taking more than 2 minutes for my warning slip. I don't remember how long it took to get my citation when I had an at-fault accident.

It's always taken longer for me. They have to run my license and apparently do a full background check and some mild harassment.

[PennySycamore]

Didn't know if this deserved a new thread, so I'll put it here:

Anyone else completely shocked/outraged at the Sandra Bland case? I just watched the dash cam video and I wanted to vomit.

edited for riffles

Damn right, I outraged! I just saw the video of the confrontation on The Nightly Show with Larry Willmore. How in the hell does a woman get pulled over for not signalling a lane change and then wind up dead in her jail cell a few days? Heck, even some white commentators on Faux News are outraged.

[ShepherdontheRock]

It's always taken longer for me. They have to run my license and apparently do a full background check and some mild harassment.

Well, from what I've read, a police officer actually has to give you a legit reason to search your car; someone not putting out their cigarette doesn't count. And I read an analysis that basically said he didn't have the authority to arrest her.

And if you read about the circumstances of her supposed suicide, very suspect, but even if she did kill herself, the jailers are still liable bc it's their job to keep her from harming herself.

And how do you get $5000 bail for not using your turn signal?

[FakePigtails]

And how do you get $5000 bail for not using your turn signal?

It was for "assaulting the cop" because she supposedly kicked him at some point during the altercation :roll: Because apparently we're supposed to magically lose our human instincts to defend ourselves when physically threatened if the person threatening is a cop (see also: McKinney, Texas pool clusterfuck).

[DowntownAbbey]

Also, according to CNN, in Texas it wouldn't have even mattered if it original reason for arrest were valid or not. You can be charged with resisting arrest regardless.

At some point, the trooper also figured he could charge Bland with resisting arrest for her "attitude." Texas' resisting arrest statute shows an arrestee no quarter. A person can "resist arrest" in Texas even if they make no contact with the officer. Any force used to avoid a detaining grip, whether pulling away, thrashing, or just being combative, counts as resisting arrest under Texas law. But what if the arrest itself is unlawful? In Texas, that doesn't matter either, it seems. A defendant prosecuted for resisting arrest cannot use as a defense the fact that the actual arrest was illegal! Advantage: law enforcement, at least in the Lone Star State.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/opinions/ ... index.html

[Snarkylark]

I gotta think that with (almost) everyone having a cell phone that these incidents will become less common. I think any time you get pulled over or confronted by a PO that your record button should be pressed;) both for your safety and for that of the PO.

[Trynn]

I've been pulled over once, but been a passenger when people have been pulled over multiple times. Even if the officer doesn't issue a ticket, yeah, it takes forEVER to for them to get back to you with it. This has been the case with both black and white drivers I have ridden with, so I'm not sure if it has to do with racial harassment, by im leaning toward it happens to everyone.

Shoot, they pulled my cousin over to tell her she had a broken headlight and it still took them forever to get her license back (no ticket was issued, it was New Years, they had bigger and drinker rish to fry).

So yeah, anytime you get pulled over it takes a while.

[louisa05]

I know the focus here is big departments and major incidents. But I lived in a town for nine years that has the most corrupt, messed up police department I have ever seen.

And today, I saw on Facebook, because a million people from there that I know liked it and posted comments about how wonderful it is, their "officer of the month" is a man who was a parent at the school I taught at and did all of the following things in the nine years I lived in that town:

*Hosted keg parties for teenagers at his house in which he obtained the alcohol and arranged with his colleagues in the department that no police interference would occur.

*Provided all of his children's friends with his business card which they could present to local police if caught in possession of alcohol or merely picked up while driving as a "get out of jail free card" of sorts. He was able to basically guarantee that none of our students were ever arrested for anything.

*Served alcohol to minors openly at his son's graduation party (I witnessed this) in the presence of the chief of police.

*Used his position to harass and threaten teachers and coaches. I experienced this personally.

He is, incidentally, the "Professional Standards Officer" for the department and also the officer in charge of reviewing all complaints against the department. So in order for teachers who were threatened and harassed by him to report him to the department, we would have had to go through him.

[DaffyDill]

I've been pulled over once, but been a passenger when people have been pulled over multiple times. Even if the officer doesn't issue a ticket, yeah, it takes forEVER to for them to get back to you with it. This has been the case with both black and white drivers I have ridden with, so I'm not sure if it has to do with racial harassment, by im leaning toward it happens to everyone.

Shoot, they pulled my cousin over to tell her she had a broken headlight and it still took them forever to get her license back (no ticket was issued, it was New Years, they had bigger and drinker rish to fry).

So yeah, anytime you get pulled over it takes a while.

I'm in Australia, and no one I know has the attitude towards our police that I see many Americans have toward theirs. A lot of people support the police over here, and recognise the inherent danger in the job they do etc. Obviously, there are exceptions to that rule, and obviously there are also bad cops here as much as anywhere else, but in general, it's different, IMHO.

I was pulled over for speeding years ago with my then hubby in the car, and received a fine, but being pulled over, having my licence checked, and being issued a speeding fine took all of 5 minutes, if that. I saw the police lights in my mirror and pulled over, he walked up to my window and asked "Now where are you off to in such a hurry?" smiling. I said "Oops, busted" and grinned (probably sheepishly), he looked at my licence and went to his car, came back after he'd written up a fine, handed it through the window, told me to be more careful next time, and then said "Have a good night people!". And we all left. Five minutes tops.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Also, according to CNN, in Texas it wouldn't have even mattered if it original reason for arrest were valid or not. You can be charged with resisting arrest regardless.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/opinions/ ... index.html[/quote

The whole thing was disgusting overkill. Who the hell gets pulled over for a mere failure to signal - from the video, she didn't cut anyone off and was driving normally. It also looked like he was trying to escalate the situation. He seemed to have an extreme reaction to her "defiant" attitude that was really shocking. She wasn't violent, she wasn't even swearing. She was simply asserting her rights and not immediately cowering.

As far as my personal interaction with police are concerned - for the most part, it's been positive with one notable exception. I've only been pulled over 4 times (been driving since 1988), it was always polite and the tickets were always dismissed in the end. I see police officers during security at my synagogue and at court, and they are almost always friendly. Thanks to a bad apple, though, I will no longer cooperate as a lawyer with the police department in my region unless under subpoena.

The case involved a client in a domestic abuse case. She was Persian - spoke enough English to get by, but it was still a bit limited and she had been kept so isolated by her crazy husband that she was still figuring out how to negotiate Canadian society on her own. She had a restraining order against the ex, he kept calling and bothering her, I suggested that she contact the police. The police officer called me to ask for some details, I tried to be cooperative. Then, she told me that he had met with her, assumed that this was some divorce-related misunderstand or tactic, and then offered to help resolve everything - over dinner with her. She turned him down. He subsequently charged her with mischief, and twisted my words as well. Luckily, I had my notes from her telling me about the dinner invitation, so we were able to show that to the court and get the prosecutor to drop the charges...but that was only AFTER she had been arrested, thrown in jail until she was released on bail (keep in mind she was a single mother), struggled to get a criminal lawyer and gone through tons of stress from dealing with a criminal charge on top of her family court case. I'm still horrified that this creep, who we trusted to help protect an abused woman, ended up tossing her in jail for refusing to date him.

[Wenny]

This looks really bad on me...I have been pulled over 22 times and never gotten a ticket. Husband has been twice and arrested both times