Woman writes open letter to man she went on Tinder date with

[polecat]

How many people here have been body shamed in person -- out of curiosity? I struggle to believe that it happens anywhere near as frequently as bloggers seem to experience, but is it possible that it IS really common?

I've been, but there's no interest in how a thin woman is told she's too skin for ordering a salad, and should order something with fat. Before I lost a bunch of weight, I was never shamed in my adult years. As a kid, I was teased, though even skinny kids, kids with freckles and glasses, basically everybody got teased. It's pretty accepted to pick on thin people because, if we complain, we get told to cry somebody a river for our whining about the hardships of being thin. A friend of mine losing weight right now has had the same thing happen, where nobody said anything when she was big, but she's already had a comment for being thin with big boobs. She was told she needs to eat some sandwiches to balance out her boobs.

I'm going to post your question on Facebook and see what more of my friends say.

[Maggie Mae]

I tend to get a lot of people commenting on my height, more so than my weight. Being short in the business world sucks. Being short and thin means people treat you like a child.

I had the most comments on my weight when I was at the higher end of average to slightly overweight. When I was obese, no one cared. My obese friend claimed people were talking about her and making fun of her daily, but I never saw any of that, and I think that affects my belief that most people who claim shaming are insecure and hyperfocused on it.

[Firiel]

I've gotten "Just wait till your metabolism slows down!" a few times.

People comment on my weight not too infrequently, but it's rarely negative... it's not really positive either. Just a statement. So that's annoying, but I wouldn't consider it shaming. I get a concerned "I'm worried you're getting too thin!" from family and close friends sometimes. But not too long ago, I inadvertently lost a lot of weight and was about 10 pounds underweight, so even though it's annoying, I also wouldn't consider it shaming, really.

What I actually find more annoying, surprisingly, is when people praise me for all the exercise I do, like the hobby of exercise is somehow more noble than any hobby that someone else might have. That makes me feel uncomfortable.

[Firiel]

Being short and thin means people treat you like a child.

Sometimes I think just being a woman means people treat you like a child.

I hate hate hate when people at work call me "Miss [first name]" colloquially. And it's happened at both professional jobs I've worked at.

/tangent

[DGayle]

I get a concerned "I'm worried you're getting too thin!" from family and close friends sometimes. But not too long ago, I inadvertently lost a lot of weight and was about 10 pounds underweight, so even though it's annoying, I also wouldn't consider it shaming, really.

I give genuine concern from family and friends a pass, to be honest. When I was getting too thin (like almost down to 100 pounds and I'm 5'7"), my husband and his mom both told me they were concerned I was too thin. I didn't see myself that way until they said it, and I realized they must have meant it to actually say something. I stopped my dieting and gained 30 pounds, and am a size 2 now. What they did wasn't shaming. It was real concern.

What I actually find more annoying, surprisingly, is when people praise me for all the exercise I do, like the hobby of exercise is somehow more noble than any hobby that someone else might have. That makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think a lot of people wish they had the stamina to exercise, and praise people who do it because they wish they did it too. The praise is really expressed jealousy, not them thinking it's noble.

[Maggie Mae]

Sometimes I think just being a woman means people treat you like a child.

I hate hate hate when people at work call me "Miss [first name]" colloquially. And it's happened at both professional jobs I've worked at.

/tangent

I thought so too, but I realized that my taller female coworkers aren't dismissed quite as easily as I am. I have difficulty keeping up with the walk & talks. It's more of a "jog along" and it's EMBARRASSING. I mean, the guy who does it is either completely oblivious or vindictive. I can't decide.

[RosyDaisy]

I hate hate hate when people at work call me "Miss [first name]" colloquially. And it's happened at both professional jobs I've worked at.

Here in the south using Ms. or Mr. is common in professional circles and is seen as good manners. It is not meant as a slur of any kind. In more casual work environments, first names are used.

[Maggie Mae]

Oh yeah, I hate that southern faux polite bullshit of "miss first name" and "ma'am." It's so demeaning. Ugh.

[RosyDaisy]

Excuse me? It's not faux polite or demeaning. If your looking for faux polite that would be "bless your heart".

[Maggie Mae]

It's all faux polite. It's saying words that they consider to be "polite," regardless of tone, context, or meaning. Training people to follow a ritual custom isn't polite, it's just bullshit. And when a person says "please don't call me ____" (ma'am, miss, ms., a longer firm of my name, etc) and someone argues that "it's polite/how I was raised" IT IS NOT POLITE. It is rude as hell. It's condescending. It's passive aggressive. It's a way for the "good ole boys club" to feel superior.

[RosyDaisy]

Let me make this clear. When I use those terms, I an not being fake, rude, demeaning, or condescending AT ALL. I am honestly being polite.

[polecat]

I've gotten "Just wait till your metabolism slows down!" a few times.

People comment on my weight not too infrequently, but it's rarely negative... it's not really positive either. Just a statement. So that's annoying, but I wouldn't consider it shaming. I get a concerned "I'm worried you're getting too thin!" from family and close friends sometimes. But not too long ago, I inadvertently lost a lot of weight and was about 10 pounds underweight, so even though it's annoying, I also wouldn't consider it shaming, really.

What I actually find more annoying, surprisingly, is when people praise me for all the exercise I do, like the hobby of exercise is somehow more noble than any hobby that someone else might have. That makes me feel uncomfortable.

Oh, I get that too but on the other end of the spectrum. I have very large legs (due to a disease), which really make me look quite fat. I think it genuinely surprises people to realize that yes, fat people can and DO exercise. I'm on the track walking every day (can't jog because it's too hard on my joints), I bike several times a week, I lift three times a week and I swim at least once a week for a good several hours. Exercise is actually a vital component for managing symptoms of my disease, which can ultimately cause my legs to get so large that I can't walk.

Anyway, it's not a grueling schedule, but apparently I exercise more than the average person (or maybe average "fat person," is what they really mean). I figure I can maybe educate them on exercise being good for every BODY (type). I've never taken comments about my exercise as shaming, though.

Funny thing, even though no one shames me irl for my fat legs, I am afraid to hit the "submit" button here because online is a whole other story. *sigh* So silly.

[Firiel]

Here in the south using Ms. or Mr. is common in professional circles and is seen as good manners. It is not meant as a slur of any kind. In more casual work environments, first names are used.

I believe that's the case for the South, for sure. But I'm in the Northwest, and I think it's different here. As far as I know, none of the people who have done this are from the South (can't say for sure, though). And I've listened to see if they similarly call men "Mr. [first name]" and it just doesn't happen. Like, for example (names changed), I'm Miss Tara, my female co-worker is Miss Nancy but my male co-worker is Chad.

[FundieFarmer]

Let me make this clear. When I use those terms, I an not being fake, rude, demeaning, or condescending AT ALL. I am honestly being polite.

Same. I'll call you by your title or married name, ma'am and sir, unless you direct me otherwise. That's just what I was taught is polite, and is echoed in the best-selling manners books worldwide. Personally, I don't love the more informal style of communication, and I would prefer someone called me "Miss FF" until I instructed them otherwise, but I understand some don't agree. I just see that as a line of people I know well and don't- ex, please don't make the assumption you can call me by the nickname my friends call me when I've met you .5 seconds ago.

But if MaggieMae asks me not to call her that, I should immediately stop. That's another component of politeness and courtesy. I've run into plenty of people who are very offended by that (especially ma'am and sir!) so I try to honor their requests. Sometimes that's tough because I've been taught that since birth, but if I slip up and say, "Yes ma'am" and they've asked me not to, then I just say "Oops! Sorry! Habit! It won't happen again!" and we laugh and move on.

....what I find weird about this letter is that he said "slip of a woman". Has anybody said that since Greta Garbo days?!

[polecat]

Let me make this clear. When I use those terms, I an not being fake, rude, demeaning, or condescending AT ALL. I am honestly being polite.

Mr. or Ms. (first name) is extremely common here when children are addressing adults. My kids call several of our neighbors Mr. or Ms. First Name. It's absolutely not intended to be demeaning or disrespectful. If an adult prefers to be called First Name only, that's what they call the adult.

Adults also refer to one another as Mr. or Ms. First Name when they're not well acquainted. Several of my husband's work associates address me as Ms. First Name. It does not bother me, and I'd not assume it was fake or demeaning unless that person has specifically requested otherwise. This is generally considered a social nicety in my area (and I'm not in the south).

[Firiel]

Mr. or Ms. (first name) is extremely common here when children are addressing adults. My kids call several of our neighbors Mr. or Ms. First Name. It's absolutely not intended to be demeaning or disrespectful. If an adult prefers to be called First Name only, that's what they call the adult.

Adults also refer to one another as Mr. or Ms. First Name when they're not well acquainted. Several of my husband's work associates address me as Ms. First Name. It does not bother me, and I'd not assume it was fake or demeaning unless that person has specifically requested otherwise. This is generally considered a social nicety in my area (and I'm not in the south).

That's really interesting. I've only heard it used towards kids and towards young women in the workplace (hence the reason why it feels infantilizing to me).

[church_of_dog]

This is funny to me in a way, because I recently noticed that I have developed the habit of addressing my visitors' dogs using this same protocol -- the dogs are April and Tess, and I've been addressing them as "Miss April" and "Miss Tess" -- I think it both feels formal (which I don't normally like, but with animals it doesn't have that oppressive feel) and it also feels a bit whimsical. I also feel like it shows the animals' human that I am really enjoying having the animals at my house (I'm currently petless :cry: ).

I think it might have started because another dog I know is named Mr. Brinkley -- with the Mr. being part of his name. Once I heard that, I think it just struck me as something good to do. It works for me, at least, and none of the humans have complained.

On a more human note, I go by a shortened/casual version of my own first name -- and have for decades, on all but the most formal paperwork. In the early 90s I took a job where there was just one other person in the office with me. Of course my hiring paperwork said "Elizabeth" but I said "please call me Liz" and he actually declined, said he was more comfortable with "Elizabeth". I felt offended at first, especially because I really don't like the name "Elizabeth" (which is why I prefer the casual version, duh!) but I realized that HE wasn't comfortable with the casualness, and I felt like that counted for something too. I definitely could have made an issue of it, just on the principle that he wasn't extending me the common courtesy of calling me by the name of my choice, but I sensed it wasn't intended to be domineering or a power play (this was a very mellow man who also used the full/formal version of his own first name) and so I just got used to it. And in fact, in hindsight I really appreciate that experience, because I eventually learned to hear my full name without the unpleasant/formal connotations it had carried for me before. The more I had avoided my full name before, the less comfortable and more stilted that full name felt. Having someone address me that way on a daily basis, with no negative emotions attached to it, really freed that up for me.

[RosyDaisy]

If someone asks me to call them by their first name or nickname and not use ma'am/sir, I will. As for the good 'ol boys club, that's not true either. Both women and men do this. This is a simple case of learning about customs and mannerisms of the places you visit.

Oh, an, my feline headship prefers to be call "Your Majesty"....LOL

[MatthewDuggar]

Mr. or Ms. (first name) is extremely common here This is generally considered a social nicety in my area (and I'm not in the south).

I'm sorry but where are you? I don't want an address, just a general idea so I can appreciate your post.

I work two different customer service related jobs and one is very casual and we must call the guests by their first name if we know it. The other, we are never allowed to use the customer's first name and must always use "Mr" or "Ms" when addressing them.

[polecat]

I'm sorry but where are you? I don't want an address, just a general idea so I can appreciate your post.

I work two different customer service related jobs and one is very casual and we must call the guests by their first name if we know it. The other, we are never allowed to use the customer's first name and must always use "Mr" or "Ms" when addressing them.

Midwest. And no, I haven't heard it professionally if that's what you're asking. I've only heard it socially.

[MatthewDuggar]

Midwest. And no, I haven't heard it professionally if that's what you're asking. I've only heard it socially.

Thank you!

[Maggie Mae]

If someone asks me to call them by their first name or nickname and not use ma'am/sir, I will. As for the good 'ol boys club, that's not true either. Both women and men do this. This is a simple case of learning about customs and mannerisms of the places you visit.

Oh, an, my feline headship prefers to be call "Your Majesty"....LOL

The good ole boys club IS a thing in my state and in my industry.

When I get emails addressed to "miss first name" or "miss longer form of my first name" (which isn't even my name), I can't help but think its rude. It comes off as incredibly condescending to me. This isn't the south. A lot of people come here from the Gulf coast, and they work for a few years, complain a lot, and then move back to Houston or wherever. Its by far mostly men. They barely respect my authority over them. The ma'am - ing comes off as particularly swarmy. They DO NOT 'sir' my male boss.

I've only ever had one woman do the ma'am thing and it was so terribly awkward.

Furthermore, this isn't the south. Those customs have no place here.

And on a side note... I'm really tired of people moving here from Texas with a plan to leave in 5 years and voting. If you don't want to stay somewhere forever, you shouldn't get to try to change policy.

[FundieFarmer]

The good ole boys club IS a thing in my state and in my industry.

When I get emails addressed to "miss first name" or "miss longer form of my first name" (which isn't even my name), I can't help but think its rude. It comes off as incredibly condescending to me. This isn't the south. A lot of people come here from the Gulf coast, and they work for a few years, complain a lot, and then move back to Houston or wherever. Its by far mostly men. They barely respect my authority over them. The ma'am - ing comes off as particularly swarmy. They DO NOT 'sir' my male boss.

I've only ever had one woman do the ma'am thing and it was so terribly awkward.

Furthermore, this isn't the south. Those customs have no place here.

And on a side note... I'm really tired of people moving here from Texas with a plan to leave in 5 years and voting. If you don't want to stay somewhere forever, you shouldn't get to try to change policy.

If it bothers you so much, keep telling them not to call you that until they finally stop. I have a double name, but a lot of people don't get that, and just call me by the first of the two. It doesn't bother me enough to correct them, so I don't. But if it bothers you, for heaven's sake, say something and keep saying it until they stop.

I understand that you don't live in the South, but you do have to realize that some of these people may have been raised somewhere (not even in the South) where that is considered the norm, and polite. It may feel just as strange and impolite to them not to call you that as it feels to you when they do. The other thing is that there's really no more footing to say "those customs have no place here". We live in a highly globalized world, and unless you're one of those everybody-speaks-English-here-in-America people, you'll have to get used to the melting pot. People go all over the world with different customs these days, and part of being a good global citizen is learning to work with that. But again, if it bothers you, say something.

Also, before you start in on me...I'm really familiar on what it's like to be not only the only woman in an office of men in a male-saturated profession, but also the youngest person in the office, period. I am no longer in that office, but every day I woke up and put my big girl heels and game face on, and proved the point that I would do no harm but would take no shit. I was superior to many of the people I worked with as well, so truly, I know how that feels. Just draw your line, and draw it, and draw it, and draw it until they get it.

[Maggie Mae]

If it bothers you so much, keep telling them not to call you that until they finally stop. I have a double name, but a lot of people don't get that, and just call me by the first of the two. It doesn't bother me enough to correct them, so I don't. But if it bothers you, for heaven's sake, say something and keep saying it until they stop.

I understand that you don't live in the South, but you do have to realize that some of these people may have been raised somewhere (not even in the South) where that is considered the norm, and polite. It may feel just as strange and impolite to them not to call you that as it feels to you when they do. The other thing is that there's really no more footing to say "those customs have no place here". We live in a highly globalized world, and unless you're one of those everybody-speaks-English-here-in-America people, you'll have to get used to the melting pot. People go all over the world with different customs these days, and part of being a good global citizen is learning to work with that. But again, if it bothers you, say something.

Also, before you start in on me...I'm really familiar on what it's like to be not only the only woman in an office of men in a male-saturated profession, but also the youngest person in the office, period. I am no longer in that office, but every day I woke up and put my big girl heels and game face on, and proved the point that I would do no harm but would take no shit. I was superior to many of the people I worked with as well, so truly, I know how that feels. Just draw your line, and draw it, and draw it, and draw it until they get it.

Honestly? I think those customs have no place in this time period. Language evolves. Customs evolve. Much of American culture does not include such formalities. We are becoming more and more informal. And in my location, practicality often wins over formality.

I don't really make a big deal over it in general. It just grates on me sometimes. Especially when I get responses that say "Thank you ma'am!" that don't even answer the question being asked. It's a reminder that I'm a woman - which shouldn't be important. It's also a way to make me feel inferior because I don't put miss and mr and ms and mrs in my correspondence. Miss makes me feel infantized, Ms makes me feel old, and Mrs is just not true. Ma'am makes me feel old, disrespected, and gendered.

[FundieFarmer]

Honestly? I think those customs have no place in this time period. Language evolves. Customs evolve. Much of American culture does not include such formalities. We are becoming more and more informal. And in my location, practicality often wins over formality.

I don't really make a big deal over it in general. It just grates on me sometimes. Especially when I get responses that say "Thank you ma'am!" that don't even answer the question being asked. It's a reminder that I'm a woman - which shouldn't be important. It's also a way to make me feel inferior because I don't put miss and mr and ms and mrs in my correspondence. Miss makes me feel infantized, Ms makes me feel old, and Mrs is just not true. Ma'am makes me feel old, disrespected, and gendered.

Hmm. I see the informality in some ways, and I don't in others. Personally, I don't like it when people take the liberty to call me by a familiar name until we've developed a relationship or I have asked them to do so. I honestly find it forward and presumptuous, and it is uncomfortable for me. My name is a way for me to divide work life/new people and home life in a world where everyone feels like automatic best friends because of 24/7 access to each other via social media.

I do live in an area that is very formal unless personal relationships have been developed, and many of my clients expect the same, especially if they are international or highly corporate. Maybe in parts of America informality is taking the forefront, but I definitely don't see that to be the case in structured corporate America or the international horizon. At least for the foreseeable future, I think "ma'am" and "sir" will still reign supreme in those cultures. As far as the bolded...that makes sense if you're working in an environment where the men aren't called sir, as you said before. I can see how that would feel like an unnecessary contrition.