Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[Fundie Bunny]

Drala, please, don't speculate about thing we dln't have proves of. Joshua Fuggar is a molester and an asshole, but there is no prove that he has done soemthing crkminal

[DarkAnts]

I'm wondering the same thing. The lack of a sighting or other confirmation of whereabouts is strange. I'm also wondering if the anticipated additional scandal might involve Isnip)

I wonder if Josh is being kept in seclusion to avoid a media swarm at the rehab place.

[ShepherdontheRock]

I wonder if Josh is being kept in seclusion to avoid a media swarm at the rehab place.

Or maybe everyone there is also being brainwashed/having their phone calls/letters out monitored. I know that happens in those camps where they abused teenagers in the name of Jesus (ie Kidnapped for Christ)

[EmmieJ]

I'm wondering the same thing. ... [not including the totally unfounded speculation]

Sometimes, I long for a thumbs down button

[EmmieJ]

What has happened is that Josh and his siblings were never allowed by their nutbag parents to develop their own consciences. You know what keeps me from cheating on a partner? The innate belief that it would be wrong, that it goes against my moral code, and the deep belief I have that I should treat others as I would want to be treated.

I choose to live by a certain moral code. Sometimes I fail, but it's in small ways - flipping off another driver for cutting me off; calling in sick once in awhile when I just want to stay in bed and pull the covers over my head but I'm not really sick; telling a white lie to get out of a social event that I don't want to attend. But I was raised by parents who led by example; and while they clearly expected certain behaviors from their kids, they also allowed us the freedom to make our own mistakes and learn from them.

If you monitor your child's every move, every thought, every waking moment, you do not allow them the chance to ever develop their own conscience. If you won't even let them drive to the store alone, if they grow up believing that if they are not constantly monitored, they will immediately turn to sin, then don't be surprised that if they ever have a chance to make their own decisions, they won't have an internal moral code to guide them.

[VelociRapture]

I'm wondering the same thing. The lack of a sighting or other confirmation of whereabouts is strange. I'm also wondering if the anticipated additional scandal might involve [redacted for inappropriate speculation].

I'm not sure if what you said is not allowed exactly (the Mods will answer that), but I find your comment inappropriate. The situations Josh has created are disgusting enough - let's not make it worse by speculating about illegal activities we have no evidence to suggest.

I understand why you might wonder about that, but can we please not devolve into the comments section at People?

[BreakfastClub]

Years ago, when I was in my early 20's, I dated a guy who was 40. It was a fling for both of us, as I was on break from college. However, he once told me that every guy cheats at some point in time, at least once and probably more. I was of course, insistent that while some guys might cheat, plenty would never do so. I remember him just smiling at me, probably thinking "wow, do you have a lot to learn about men."

I'm a lot older and wiser now, and I'm still surprised at the number of married men (and women) who have affairs on the side.

Josh didn't need anyone to influence him or teach him how to sneak around. I think people who aren't satisfied with their lives just figure it out, and sites like Ashley Madison make it a little easier (although the site was mainly a rip off filled with tons of guys, fake female accounts, and probably very few actual women seeking an affair).

He was wrong and you were right, of course. Just because HE may cheat and the men he associated with cheat, doesn't mean ALL men cheat. It's like a prostitute I saw once on TV who said ALL married men go with prostitutes...Of course, that's not true, but she constantly sees married clients, so she assumes all married men are that way. There are many faithful men who have morals and ethics and would never cheat.

[SPHASH]

Today is the Smuggar's 7th wedding anniversary.

[LovelyLuna]

Today is the Smuggar's 7th wedding anniversary.

Poor Annna. :cry:

[MatthewDuggar]

He was wrong and you were right, of course. Just because HE may cheat and the men he associated with cheat, doesn't mean ALL men cheat. It's like a prostitute I saw once on TV who said ALL married men go with prostitutes...Of course, that's not true, but she constantly sees married clients, so she assumes all married men are that way. There are many faithful men who have morals and ethics and would never cheat.

I agree, that's a huge generalization. I am sure men definitely cheat way more than women, but I would say that there are plenty of men that are completely faithful.

As a gay man, it is pretty shocking how many supposedly heterosexual men with families cheat with other men. But that' a whole other topic.

[Rescinded and Mended]

He was wrong and you were right, of course. Just because HE may cheat and the men he associated with cheat, doesn't mean ALL men cheat. It's like a prostitute I saw once on TV who said ALL married men go with prostitutes...Of course, that's not true, but she constantly sees married clients, so she assumes all married men are that way. There are many faithful men who have morals and ethics and would never cheat.

The bolded part of EmmieJ's comment really stuck with me when I read it the other night. It made me wonder if the 40-year-old had someone waiting at home, and was generalizing that all men cheat simply because he chose to be the type who cheats. Sort of like the person who always accuses their mate of cheating, when in reality it's the accuser that's constantly screwing around.

(Apologies, EmmieJ, I'm not trying to insist this was exactly what he was thinking when he was with you at the time, or even that he was necessarily cheating with you, it's just that your post gave me something to think about, and I am wondering out loud over the possibilities)

[St.Clara]

He was wrong and you were right, of course. Just because HE may cheat and the men he associated with cheat, doesn't mean ALL men cheat. It's like a prostitute I saw once on TV who said ALL married men go with prostitutes...Of course, that's not true, but she constantly sees married clients, so she assumes all married men are that way. There are many faithful men who have morals and ethics and would never cheat.

I agree, and I think it probable that most people who cheat on their partners feel better if they succeed in convincing themselves (and others) that "everybody does it" and tend to ignore facts that could prove them wrong.

(Remember the famous aria "La donna è mobile" ("The woman is fickle") from Verdi´s "Rigoletto"? It´s very ironic that not only the one who sings it, the Duke of Mantua, happens to be a callous playboy himself but that also Gilda, the (so far) last one among the young women who fell for the Duke, turns out a true role model of constancy, even to a fault, as she sacrifices her life to save her lover from the assassins hired by her father.)

[St.Clara]

What has happened is that Josh and his siblings were never allowed by their nutbag parents to develop their own consciences. You know what keeps me from cheating on a partner? The innate belief that it would be wrong, that it goes against my moral code, and the deep belief I have that I should treat others as I would want to be treated.

I choose to live by a certain moral code. Sometimes I fail, but it's in small ways - flipping off another driver for cutting me off; calling in sick once in awhile when I just want to stay in bed and pull the covers over my head but I'm not really sick; telling a white lie to get out of a social event that I don't want to attend. But I was raised by parents who led by example; and while they clearly expected certain behaviors from their kids, they also allowed us the freedom to make our own mistakes and learn from them.

If you monitor your child's every move, every thought, every waking moment, you do not allow them the chance to ever develop their own conscience. If you won't even let them drive to the store alone, if they grow up believing that if they are not constantly monitored, they will immediately turn to sin, then don't be surprised that if they ever have a chance to make their own decisions, they won't have an internal moral code to guide them.

I totally agree, but I think there is one more thing that the Duggars did wrong: they taught their children that the rules are so strict that it is impossible to follow them anyway, thereby creating a deep-rooted cynicism in most of them.

I am not only talking about the fact here that there is no accepted outlet for the teenagers´strong sexual urges (although that is a brilliant example for what I mean) but also, for example, about the blanket training and about the claim that children should obey not only immediately but also cheerfully. :shock:

Even supposing that the parents´commands would be always inspired by celestial wisdom and all-knowingness (which is obviously not very realistic :roll: ), this is a rule that´s impossible to follow by a child. They will not always like to obey, and if you give them the feeling that they are inherently bad if they feel unable to do so, you will create a silent despair in their souls. Most will give up sooner or later on trying to be good as they feel that this goal is unattainable anyway. Instead, they will become used to "working around" the rules and surviving emotionally as best they can. If they cheat on others and make them suffer in doing so, that is just what has always been inevitable reality in their lives as far back as they can remember.

[ClaraOswin]

If someone thinks ALL men cheat...they must lead a very sad life.

[IrishCarrie]

I get a bit ragey when "all" is used in any context. I heard two women talking in the supermarket this afternoon and one said to the other 'All strawberries are bad at this time of year'...I had to restrain myself from shrieking 'All?! All?!! There isn't one good fricken strawberry in the universe by the end of September?!?'

Such is the rage that 'all' inspires in me.

And if it gets to me that much when it's used about strawberries, I'll leave it to your imagination how much it irritates me when it's used about human behaviour.

Sorry for the rant! (Insert ashamed emoticon...)

Edited because I can't spell when I'm worked up :mrgreen:

[Drala]

I totally agree, but I think there is one more thing that the Duggars did wrong: they taught their children that the rules are so strict that it is impossible to follow them anyway, thereby creating a deep-rooted cynicism in most of them.

I am not only talking about the fact here that there is no accepted outlet for the teenagers´strong sexual urges (although that is a brilliant example for what I mean) but also, for example, about the blanket training and about the claim that children should obey not only immediately but also cheerfully. :shock:

Even supposing that the parents´commands would be always inspired by celestial wisdom and all-knowingness (which is obviously not very realistic :roll: ), this is a rule that´s impossible to follow by a child. They will not always like to obey, and if you give them the feeling that they are inherently bad if they feel unable to do so, you will create a silent despair in their souls. Most will give up sooner or later on trying to be good as they feel that this goal is unattainable anyway. Instead, they will become used to "working around" the rules and surviving emotionally as best they can. If they cheat on others and make them suffer in doing so, that is just what has always been inevitable reality in their lives as far back as they can remember.

This is very helpful discussion. I apologize for my previous unfounded speculation about the potential for criminal behavior on Josh's part, but it's exactly the lack of his internal locus of control and his apparent need for strict external control (ie, Jesus jail) that prompted my wondering about the boundaries Josh seems to be willing to cross with little compunction.

[EmmieJ]

He was wrong and you were right, of course. Just because HE may cheat and the men he associated with cheat, doesn't mean ALL men cheat. It's like a prostitute I saw once on TV who said ALL married men go with prostitutes...Of course, that's not true, but she constantly sees married clients, so she assumes all married men are that way. There are many faithful men who have morals and ethics and would never cheat.

I agree with you.

[ClaraOswin]

I get a bit ragey when "all" is used in any context. I heard two women talking in the supermarket this afternoon and one said to the other 'All strawberries are bad at this time of year'...I had to restrain myself from shrieking 'All?! All?!! There isn't one good fricken strawberry in the universe by the end of September?!?'

Such is the rage that 'all' inspires in me.

And if it gets to me that much when it's used about strawberries, I'll leave it to your imagination how much it irritates me when it's used about human behaviour.

Sorry for the rant! (Insert ashamed emoticon...)

Edited because I can't spell when I'm worked up :mrgreen:

I am the same way with "all." Drives me batty.

Oh...and we got some strawberries at Walmart a couple days ago...they are really tasty!

[gustava]

This is very helpful discussion. I apologize for my previous unfounded speculation about the potential for criminal behavior on Josh's part, but it's exactly the lack of his internal locus of control and his apparent need for strict external control (ie, Jesus jail) that prompted my wondering about the boundaries Josh seems to be willing to cross with little compunction.

I appreciate both your apology and the further explanation. Welcome to FJ.

[bingbangboom]

Was listening to some of my favorite tunes today when this caught my ear and made me think of Sir Smuggs:

"Got a good Christian rasin',

And an 8th grade education

And I don't need y'all treatin' me this way."-Billy Joe Shraver

Gave me a good giggle and made me think of this thread!

[grandmadugger]

The kids have no moral compass. They never learned right from wrong. They learned as kids that some things caused pain but not the why. The rules never changed either. They had the same rules at 5, 10, 15, and on. I know they say that once they are married the have freedoms but I don't buy it at all.

[Buzzard]

Too bad my "in touch" wont get here until Saturday. They're reporting they have a second woman...

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh ... star-72171

[IreneIssh]

Too bad my "in touch" wont get here until Saturday. They're reporting they have a second woman...

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh ... star-72171

Oh, boy. I wonder who she plans on giving an interview to. It doesn't sound like InTouch is talking to her yet. Just another source. Well, I think we all knew that this was going to happen sooner or later. Poor Anna.

[nokidsmom]

Not surprised.

I suspect more stories will keep on dribbling out.

[karen77]

Too bad my "in touch" wont get here until Saturday. They're reporting they have a second woman...

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh ... star-72171

Well, this will be interesting to hear about!!! She's probably waiting to get the highest bidder for her story.