Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[karen77]

If Josh kept her off the mortgage siting lack of credit on her part, or simply that she didn't need to be (she's a woman), then JB can easily do all the horse trading without her being the wiser. There's nothing for her to sign. Josh is away at camp and she's been with family...whether she was in Florida or simply staying in Arkansas not at the TTH--by the time she is aware of what's going on, it's too late for her to contest anything. She may not even know she has community property rights...or at least not understand what it all specifically entails. JB could even tell her that the house is being rented for the time being and not to worry her pretty head about it. He, being the head of the family, will take care of allll the details so she can focus on repairing her Godly union. :?

Well, I meant more not knowing all the under hand scheming that JB is doing, he may give her a straightforward reason (pay for rehab) but really is doing it all to keep the cash out of her hands? Not sure if that is true, but could be.

[halcionne]

I saw the public record. Definitely in both of their names.

What I'm amazed is how fast it all went down. In July, Davy Waller posted pictures of him and the Keller boys helping Josh fix the place up, so it seemed Josh and Anna were planning to make it their long term home.

The Ashley Madison story broke on 8/19. Within 5 days the house is in the hands of an attorney friend who apparently is a friend of Josh's. He buys it as "ALB Investments", an LLC that seems to have been formed on the same day the house was sold.

Why so fast? Maybe this was all planned earlier, to protect Josh's assets out of fear that Victim 5 (from the old scandal) might come forward and sue. But why then not sell it to the Duggar LLC? Or put it in a trust?

If it's related to the Ashley Madison scandal, what would be the point? What civil damages would be associated with cheating on your wife with or without prostitutes? Are we missing something and is there more to come?

And was Anna conned into signing away her rights to the house or did she agree willingly? If if she agreed willingly, what was in it for her?

As always, lots of questions with these tricky, slippery people.

The transfer and LLC creation happened on August 24, as you noted, which is the same day the Duggar plane planned to fly to Rockford. The flight history suggests a bit of chaos and long delays, and the plane didn't actually get to Rockford until after midnight on the 25th. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=23078&p=1014019&hilit=rockford#p1014019

This house transaction seems to have taken place during a period of upheaval and I agree it was hasty. I doubt everyone involved was in their right mind, or capable of making good decisions in that five day period. I cling to the belief that the house is merely being sheltered and that Anna (and Josh, but fuck Josh for now) still has an interest in it. Selling a house shouldn't be an impulse decision.

[JenniferJuniper]

The transfer and LLC creation happened on August 24, as you noted, which is the same day the Duggar plane planned to fly to Rockford. The flight history suggests a bit of chaos and long delays, and the plane didn't actually get to Rockford until after midnight on the 25th. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=23078&p=1014019&hilit=rockford#p1014019

This house transaction seems to have taken place during a period of upheaval and I agree it was hasty. I doubt everyone involved was in their right mind, or capable of making good decisions in that five day period. I cling to the belief that the house is merely being sheltered and that Anna (and Josh, but fuck Josh for now) still has an interest in it. Selling a house shouldn't be an impulse decision.

Very possible. But the question still is "why?" Why the need to get the house out of Josh and Anna's name so soon after the AM story broke? The generic answer - "possible lawsuits" - only begs more questions. They didn't seem too worried about the 5th victim possibly suing when they were making the house habitable in July. (and it was in Anna's name as well, so even if there was a lawsuit, it would probably be difficult for a civil plaintiff to be able to lay claim to Anna's primary residence. She didn't do anything wrong.) And on the surface at least, nothing about Josh having mistresses or being addicted to porn leads to a need to suddenly dump assets.

Rhetorical questions. But it would seem we're missing a potentially large piece of the puzzle.

[FlamingFundie]

Very possible. But the question still is "why?" Why the need to get the house out of Josh and Anna's name so soon after the AM story broke? The generic answer - "possible lawsuits" - only begs more questions. They didn't seem too worried about the 5th victim possibly suing when they were making the house habitable in July. (and it was in Anna's name as well, so even if there was a lawsuit, it would probably be difficult for a civil plaintiff to be able to lay claim to Anna's primary residence. She didn't do anything wrong.) And on the surface at least, nothing about Josh having mistresses or being addicted to porn leads to a need to suddenly dump assets.

Rhetorical questions. But it would seem we're missing a potentially large piece of the puzzle.

To the bolded, I continue to suspect bankruptcy.

[socalrules]

I doubt the 5th victim is going to suddenly sue now. She hasn't been named and no one seems to know who she is. Also, it's likely that the statute of limitations on any lawsuit based on the molestation would have long since passed. If they are worried about lawsuits, it's likely not from the fifth victim. For all we know there may be other money issues with Josh and Anna that we are not aware of. Living the DC lifestyle isn't cheap and they likely weren't able to save much, if any, of the salary Josh earned. I can see Josh trying to keep up with his colleagues at the hate group and going to $50 lunches everyday. My guess is that most, if not all, of the cash they had went into buying the Arkansas house. I doubt Josh and Anna made as much as Jessa and Jill on their VSE wedding and baby episodes, and even that isn't anywhere as much as people like the Kardashians make.

I am not sure it has to do with bankruptcy because if thought most people are able to protect their house through bankruptcy. Plus, I can see them being in debt or broke but not enough to need to go through bankruptcy.

Edited because typing on my phone makes me stupid.

[FlamingFundie]

Perhaps the sale of the house is to avoid bankruptcy? I could see them needing the money, and JB putting in a few calls to his good Ol' boys to quickly sell the place.

ETA: I am really betting all my money on something financial, but not being sued. I really think it was just too expensive to live in DC for them, plus I bet there wasn't a whole lot of TLC money since I suspect they only get paid for the episodes they are actually in, PLUS Josh's apparent desire to rain money on his stripper friends. I really think their nest egg was either small or non-existent, and all the SHTF leaving them high and dry.

[JenniferJuniper]

To the bolded, I continue to suspect bankruptcy.

But isn't a bankruptcy filing automatically public record? And I'm not sure what the selling of the house would accomplish.

[JenniferJuniper]

Perhaps the sale of the house is to avoid bankruptcy? I could see them needing the money, and JB putting in a few calls to his good Ol' boys to quickly sell the place.

ETA: I am really betting all my money on something financial, but not being sued. I really think it was just too expensive to live in DC for them, plus I bet there wasn't a whole lot of TLC money since I suspect they only get paid for the episodes they are actually in, PLUS Josh's apparent desire to rain money on his stripper friends. I really think their nest egg was either small or non-existent, and all the SHTF leaving them high and dry.

I agree that they may have had/be having financial problems because of the DC venture and Josh's extracurricular activities. But even if they put just 10% down on the house and took a 15 year 50k mortgage, they'd only be paying about $375 a month. They were using family labor to fix it up. You gotta live somewhere and even with utilities that's pretty darn cheap for a family of 6.

I can't see how offloading the house for 65k when they paid 55k for it does much for them.

Nothing makes sense here.

[47of74]

I agree, I thought JB was going to have the first scandal, white collar/financial until J&A moved to DC. Then I moved onto thinking Josh's freedom in DC would bring on something similar to what happened with the Ashley Madison accounts. I would love to know what his work found on the "work" computer.

I'm wondering if these people already ran killdisk or something similar on his work computer to keep it from being examined before they disposed of it - such as returning it to the leasing company, etc.

[EmCatlyn]

That is the frightening thing to me. If Anna divorces Josh right now I'm guessing there is no property, no savings, no pension, and no other assets. Any money they realized on the Siloam Springs House will have gone to pay for Rehab and Anna's present day upkeep ($65,000 sell price minus $50,000 purchase price.) Anna may or may not want a divorce but JB is ready for her. I wouldn't put it past him to point out how destitute she would be if she started proceedings but if she stays married, he (JB) will make sure she and the kids are all right.

Yes! I don't think Anna is likely to file for divorce, but if she were to do so, Josh would have no job and there may be no assets she can claim for herself and the kids.

[Buzzard]

If I had to jump on the speculation train about the transfer it would be

1) - The house was always supposed to be an investment and the timing is a coincidence

2) - The transfer has something to do with tithing

3) - the transfer is somehow related to reducing the value/amount of assets so he can qualify for some form of assistance for all of his problems.

[QuestioningQuivers]

3) - the transfer is somehow related to reducing the value/amount of assets so he can qualify for some form of assistance for all of his problems.

This is what I think. They are probably trying to get welfare assistance while he is gone or a reduced fee for the rehab.

[Daisy4]

I don't know if this has been discussed since josh-gate but back in 2011 Michelle did a radio interview and said that the girls wear polo shirts and skirts to sleep and that no one was allowed downstairs in the morning with their PJs on.

We all speculated as to the reason for these strange rules... little did we know!

The links to the interviews don't work any more but I'm wondering if anyone saved the audio files. I still find it disturbing that Michelle found it appropriate to give advice on sibling purity and modesty given how she failed to protect her own daughters.

viewtopic.php?t=854

[HarleyQuinn]

I don't know if this has been discussed since josh-gate but back in 2011 Michelle did a radio interview and said that the girls wear polo shirts and skirts to sleep and that no one was allowed downstairs in the morning with their PJs on.

We all speculated as to the reason for these strange rules... little did we know!

The links to the interviews don't work any more but I'm wondering if anyone saved the audio files. I still find it disturbing that Michelle found it appropriate to give advice on sibling purity and modesty given how she failed to protect her own daughters.

viewtopic.php?t=854

I always thought it was really creepy they didn't let their kids walk around in PJ's because they were worried about defrauding their own siblings. Well, now we know.

Still, I couldn't imagine not walking around in my PJ's..then again, the girls probably aren't allowed to wear sweat pants.

[St.Clara]

This is what I think. They are probably trying to get welfare assistance while he is gone or a reduced fee for the rehab.

But if Josh accepts welfare assistence in order to support his family and someone finds out, would not that necessarily cause the next nasty PR disaster, not only for him, but also for JB and by extension for the whole Duggar family? I mean, how many more scandals can they afford without completely forfeiting all chances of getting some sort of tv show back, ever?

[SassyPants]

If he had to purportedly pay for his transgression induced counseling as a teen, perhaps he needed to sell the house to fund his adult lust rehab?

If this is the case, JB is so shortsighted. As many have mentioned, the family needs to live somewhere.

[Mela99]

If he had to purportedly pay for his transgression induced counseling as a teen, perhaps he needed to sell the house to fund his adult lust rehab?

If this is the case, JB is so shortsighted. As many have mentioned, the family needs to live somewhere.

That and a deposit into Anna's checking account to beg her not to go ... or to feed her while he's away.

[Hera]

So now Anna is an uneducated mom of 4 with no job, no current source of income and no assets. Her family cannot support her and 4 kids indefinitely. Josh is unemployed (and maybe unemployable). There's no spousal support of child support coming from that quarter. JB isn't legally obligated to support her or the kids. So, if she leaves, she's financially fucked. Her only choice is to stay or starve. And this is exactly the way the cult's entire system is designed.

[socalrules]

I wonder what Anna and the kids are doing about health insurance. I know that Jim Bob was big on scamaritan but aren't they careful about who and what they accept based on sinfulness? Would they cover Anna and the kids since Josh has been sinning all over the place?

I don't see Anna and the kids signing up for any type of aid. I doubt that would even occur to them. Plus, it's likely that any aid would be tied to both Josh and Anna looking for work. Also, Anna isn't a single mother. She is married and her husband will be expected to try and contribute. I don't think fake rehab will be a way for Josh to avoid it. I don't know how aid works in Arkansas but some states require people to go take different classes related to job searches or parenting. I can't see Josh and Anna doing that. Nor do I believe that Jim Bob would let them do that, I believe he would pay the bills and take care of them. If for nothing other than pride.

[JenniferJuniper]

I wonder what Anna and the kids are doing about health insurance. I know that Jim Bob was big on scamaritan but aren't they careful about who and what they accept based on sinfulness? Would they cover Anna and the kids since Josh has been sinning all over the place?

The family would still be covered under COBRA, assuming FRC offered Josh health insurance, although signing up for an exchange would probably be cheaper. I know plenty of hypocrites who are making full use of the Affordable Care Act, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Josh Duggars would use it.

[Daisy4]

The family would still be covered under COBRA, assuming FRC offered Josh health insurance, although signing up for an exchange would probably be cheaper. I know plenty of hypocrites who are making full use of the Affordable Care Act, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Josh Duggars would use it.

COBRA is ridiculously expensive because you have to pay the employee portion and the employer portion. The one time I was offered it, it was $500/month for just me. There's no way Josh is paying for the whole family through COBRA.

Most of these families live with no health insurance. The Bateses have talked about the fact that "any ER has to treat you and you figure out how to pay later". I'm sure health insurance is the least of Anna's worries.

[ksgranola1]

The Bates's don't have health insurance?! My daughter has 2 children 2! And a klutzy husband. they are in the ER all the time. For a real accident, the bill can be upwards to $10,000! Multiply THAT by 19.

[HarleyQuinn]

The Bateseseseseses seemed almost proud they didn't have insurance and used the ER. All I could think of is their kids taking up precious ER doctor time with a stupid head cold while someone could be bleeding out elsewhere. Anna doesn't strike me as a very smart person, so I doubt she has any. She probably wouldn't even sign up for Obamacare because that's what most people call it, and errmahgawd liberals!

[ClaraOswin]

The Bateseseseseses seemed almost proud they didn't have insurance and used the ER. All I could think of is their kids taking up precious ER doctor time with a stupid head cold while someone could be bleeding out elsewhere. Anna doesn't strike me as a very smart person, so I doubt she has any. She probably wouldn't even sign up for Obamacare because that's what most people call it, and errmahgawd liberals!

Wait...I am completely clueless when it comes to not having insurance. Why exactly would they go to the ER for a cold? I don't get it.

[nausicaa]

The Bateseseseseses seemed almost proud they didn't have insurance and used the ER. All I could think of is their kids taking up precious ER doctor time with a stupid head cold while someone could be bleeding out elsewhere.

I always think about that too and it drives me crazy. Especially considering how often kids come down with stuff that requires medical attention but certainly isn't ER worthy (pink eye, strep throat, ear infections). And times 19.

Hope no one in Rocky Top has a bad heart...