Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[December]

I agree....the more time that passes, the less likely I think it is that he's at RU.

I'm with you... I think after this much time, there would've been a sighting or something. I think it's likely he's hidden at one of their family's apparently infinite amount of associated properties.

I'll be interested to see when he emerges from hiding (Christmas?) and what their story is on where he was and what he was doing there.

[NotAnIncubator]

Hidden Content

 

I just realized... Miss Priss' chaparone is Brandon (married to Michael Bates) sister. This really is a small small fundie world.

[EmCatlyn]

I agree with ksgranola2 that Josh is probably at some Fundie "prison" and agree with others that it almost certainly isn't RU.  He may have spent some time at RU but maybe not...

I am not so sure I agree that they are taking the M kids to see him. It may be what they ought to do, for the sake of the kids, but this isn't a family that will see it this way.  They will be more concerned with punishing Josh and making him repent, keeping Josh out of the public eye, giving a message to the world that they (the Duggar family) are still a model family despite Josh's mistakes.  The emotional needs of the M-kids may not be recognized.

 

[Sweet Fellowship]

I'm surprised Josh hasn't been spotted yet. I thought some tabloid would've found him, better yet, the FJ super sleuths.

[withaj]

I'm surprised Josh hasn't been spotted yet. I thought some tabloid would've found him, better yet, the FJ super sleuths.

If we had a nugget to run with, I'm sure we would have found him by now, but not a peep from anybody! I think it's possible he's still at RU, but more likely that he was relocated to a different facility shortly after all the hullabaloo when everyone started covering his location.

[RosyDaisy]

How hell can JB say that he and Michelle made mistakes by dating without chaperones? It obviously worked for them. They got married, the have been married for 30+ years, and had a family. The mistake was joining Gothard's cult.

Josh is a child molester, a predator, and quit possibly a rapist (if you believe Danica Dillon's story). I hope he is in a facility somewhere.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

JB and Michelle have said many times that they 'made mistakes" and stumbled while dating and there has been speculation that perhaps they did something more than kiss before exchanging vows. Yes, their marriage is a success-- they are still together and they (by all appearances) are happy and  in love with each other.  So what on earth are they referring to?  I can only imagine that that first miscarriage allowed their pastor to sow seeds of doubt and guilt in their minds.  Somehow they were convinced that the sin of using of birth control, perhaps the sin of kissing before marriage, perhaps even the the sin of naked groping or a BJ  caused God to smite the baby in Michelle's womb.  Bam! Allowing them to get sucked into a cult and to end up where they are now-- with an enormous brood of uneducated, unquestioning brainwashed puppets.

[EmCatlyn]

JB and Michelle have said many times that they 'made mistakes" and stumbled while dating and there has been speculation that perhaps they did something more than kiss before exchanging vows. Yes, their marriage is a success-- they are still together and they (by all appearances) are happy and  in love with each other.  So what on earth are they referring to?  I can only imagine that that first miscarriage allowed their pastor to sow seeds of doubt and guilt in their minds.  Somehow they were convinced that the sin of using of birth control, perhaps the sin of kissing before marriage, perhaps even the the sin of naked groping or a BJ  caused God to smite the baby in Michelle's womb.  Bam! Allowing them to get sucked into a cult and to end up where they are now-- with an enormous brood of uneducated, unquestioning brainwashed puppets.

I think JB didn't get "sucked into" the cult.  I think he liked (and still likes) what it offered him.  It made him feel important and gave him power over Michelle and eventually all their kids.  

Michelle is the one I think who got sucked.  She is not too bright and she was probably emotionally fragile after the "Caleb" miscarriage.  We often note the lack of appropriate affect in her face; we have heard about she almost had a breakdown when she had 7 (?) kids. The baby voice, she has said, is a conscious effort to keep her anger and other emotions under wraps.  

[MarblesMom]

I would guess it's because the tittles (this really is the word) over lowercase i and j don't fit above in that lettering, and if they capitalized they'd look like ls. 

Also, since everything is capitalized, not capitalizing Jesus has the same effect as capitalizing it in a normally formatted sentence.

Taking my overthinking hat off now.

To me, the picture over his shoulder is more disturbing than his shirt.

[Cleopatra7]

I think JB didn't get "sucked into" the cult.  I think he liked (and still likes) what it offered him.  It made him feel important and gave him power over Michelle and eventually all their kids.  

Michelle is the one I think who got sucked.  She is not too bright and she was probably emotionally fragile after the "Caleb" miscarriage.  We often note the lack of appropriate affect in her face; we have heard about she almost had a breakdown when she had 7 (?) kids. The baby voice, she has said, is a conscious effort to keep her anger and other emotions under wraps.  

Before they fell down the Gothard rabbit hole, they were already fundie lite, so I don't think it would have taken much to convince both of them that too much is better than not enough when it comes to religion. As I recall, Michelle was frightened into getting saved by watching some movie on the end times when she was in high school, and that's when JB shoehorned himself into her life. JB was already heavily into the fundie-lite culture to the point where he was go around "counseling" new Christians or whatever he called his home visitations. The region they live thinks that you can never to too white or too Christian, so they weren't going to have anyone complaining about going Gothard. I don't think they got "suckered" so much as they were already predisposed to being fundie by virtue of what had happened earlier in their lives and the part of the country they lived in.

[sophie10130]

JB and Michelle have said many times that they 'made mistakes" and stumbled while dating and there has been speculation that perhaps they did something more than kiss before exchanging vows. Yes, their marriage is a success-- they are still together and they (by all appearances) are happy and  in love with each other.  So what on earth are they referring to?  I can only imagine that that first miscarriage allowed their pastor to sow seeds of doubt and guilt in their minds.  Somehow they were convinced that the sin of using of birth control, perhaps the sin of kissing before marriage, perhaps even the the sin of naked groping or a BJ  caused God to smite the baby in Michelle's womb.  Bam! Allowing them to get sucked into a cult and to end up where they are now-- with an enormous brood of uneducated, unquestioning brainwashed puppets.

Why is "God" allowed to say "no abortions" but then cause a miscarriage because of sins of the parents?

I don't think I would want to put my faith in or pray to that God.

[EmCatlyn]

Before they fell down the Gothard rabbit hole, they were already fundie lite, so I don't think it would have taken much to convince both of them that too much is better than not enough when it comes to religion. As I recall, Michelle was frightened into getting saved by watching some movie on the end times when she was in high school, and that's when JB shoehorned himself into her life. JB was already heavily into the fundie-lite culture to the point where he was go around "counseling" new Christians or whatever he called his home visitations. The region they live thinks that you can never to too white or too Christian, so they weren't going to have anyone complaining about going Gothard. I don't think they got "suckered" so much as they were already predisposed to being fundie by virtue of what had happened earlier in their lives and the part of the country they lived in.

I agree.  But fundie-lite is not a cult.  I think JB got into religious stuff because it made him feel important and that Michelle go into it because she was scared.   The miscarriage just scared her more, since she felt guilty and sinful.  They were, as you say, vulnerable, but I believe if JB hadn't found Gothardism appealing because it made him feel powerful, Michelle might not have gotten in as deep.  The set up meets his needs better than it meets hers.  

[ClaraOswin]

I often wondered if Michelle was abused/molested/or something when she was younger. I have no real basis for these thoughts really. Just wondering if that's why they had safe guards and see all men as potential predators. Also with her eating disorder. And they way she seems so timid and whatnot.

[notfundy]

I am more positive every day that Josh is not at RU (at least not in the Chicago/Rockford area) and most likely never WAS at RU.

So I agree with the people further up in this thread.  

I personally think he's been hiding out in Arkansas.  Maybe since the beginning.    Otherwise he'd have been spotted (I know I /others have said this before, but with the work requirement RU has in place, he would have had to be out in the community at some point by now, and his story has gotten enough press that SOMEONE would notice!)  

So - I have to say I am waiting anxiously to see when he pops back up, and I think coming "back" at Thanksgiving is a very good guess!  

[2manyKidzzz]

I am more positive every day that Josh is not at RU (at least not in the Chicago/Rockford area) and most likely never WAS at RU.

So I agree with the people further up in this thread.  

I personally think he's been hiding out in Arkansas.  Maybe since the beginning.    Otherwise he'd have been spotted (I know I /others have said this before, but with the work requirement RU has in place, he would have had to be out in the community at some point by now, and his story has gotten enough press that SOMEONE would notice!)  

So - I have to say I am waiting anxiously to see when he pops back up, and I think coming "back" at Thanksgiving is a very good guess!  

A great theory. Hard to believe no mention of him at all in RU....say that someone would mention and a family member of their's tweet, or something. 

A great mystery. And, at Thanksgiving, the turkey returns. 

[sophrosyne]

I am more positive every day that Josh is not at RU (at least not in the Chicago/Rockford area) and most likely never WAS at RU.

So I agree with the people further up in this thread.  

I personally think he's been hiding out in Arkansas.  Maybe since the beginning.    Otherwise he'd have been spotted (I know I /others have said this before, but with the work requirement RU has in place, he would have had to be out in the community at some point by now, and his story has gotten enough press that SOMEONE would notice!)  

So - I have to say I am waiting anxiously to see when he pops back up, and I think coming "back" at Thanksgiving is a very good guess!  

Say more notfundy (and others upthread) about why you don't think he's at RU. (I'm curious and interested in your view, not contesting it.)

From what I've read about RU, the residential program is a 180 day program minimum, if he stays the course, so that would have him emerging sometime in February or later. RU may have a special policy for high profile residents, which keeps Josh off camera during Friday sessions (and maybe even in a separate room watching the feed we can see) and which would have him doing work duty on campus and behind closed doors. And I would think that confidentiality would be a very big deal in that program or others, with the added covenant of the Christian brotherhood/sisterhood thing. (We don't hear much, if anything, from inside celebrity rehabs and surely the tabloids would print it if it were out there--Lindsay Lohan's 'Promises' roommate tell-all, for example. I'd think there would be big tempting money to spill such stuff and it's not out there. AndI can't think of any instance of hearing or seeing public spill from AA meetings or participants.) 

I'm not trying to make a case for his being at RU but just to wonder if it's plausible that he is there. It's truly a marvel of our eyes and ears everywhere age that he hasn't been seen or heard about since August! 

Maybe he's holed up in a fancy Arkansas suck blind in the middle of a Louisianna border Arka-swamp. When I was kid in Arkansas, some of those duck blinds even had carport-like boatports, so you could pull your flat-bottomed skiff inside and hide from ducks and humans.

Say more notfundy (and others upthread) about why you don't think he's at RU. (I'm curious and interested in your view, not contesting it.)

From what I've read about RU, the residential program is a 180 day program minimum, if he stays the course, so that would have him emerging sometime in February or later. RU may have a special policy for high profile residents, which keeps Josh off camera during Friday sessions (and maybe even in a separate room watching the feed we can see) and which would have him doing work duty on campus and behind closed doors. And I would think that confidentiality would be a very big deal in that program or others, with the added covenant of the Christian brotherhood/sisterhood thing. (We don't hear much, if anything, from inside celebrity rehabs and surely the tabloids would print it if it were out there--Lindsay Lohan's 'Promises' roommate tell-all, for example. I'd think there would be big tempting money to spill such stuff and it's not out there. AndI can't think of any instance of hearing or seeing public spill from AA meetings or participants.) 

I'm not trying to make a case for his being at RU but just to wonder if it's plausible that he is there. It's truly a marvel of our eyes and ears everywhere age that he hasn't been seen or heard about since August! 

Maybe he's holed up in a fancy Arkansas duck blind in the middle of a Louisianna border Arka-swamp. When I was kid in Arkansas, some of those duck blinds even had carport-like boatports, so you could pull your flat-bottomed skiff inside and hide from ducks and humans.

[Sweet Fellowship]

I often wondered if Michelle was abused/molested/or something when she was younger. I have no real basis for these thoughts really. Just wondering if that's why they had safe guards and see all men as potential predators. Also with her eating disorder. And they way she seems so timid and whatnot.

I got a feeling that Michelle has suffered some form of abuse. I don't think it's just JB's shaming that has caused her to be how she is.

[from the bible belt]

I got a feeling that Michelle has suffered some form of abuse. I don't think it's just JB's shaming that has caused her to be how she is.

Count me in an that thought, i was thinking that to

 

[salex]

Josh is fundamentally a dishonest person.  I agree that if he was serious about purity for  himself, he should have reached out for support in that area.  Something the article pointed out is that there is an assumption that with marriage, all sexual urges will be satisfied, which is naive.

i believe he comes by his dishonesty honestly.   He was raised by parents who put out one personae for the public , voters and viewing audience of a perfectly loving and wonderful family snd "mother of the year " while blanket training their babies and having the older children raise the younger ones.  They taught him to hide sexual wrongdoing and go through the motions and it would be fine as long as no one found out and the worshiped at the feet of a serial sexual predator.  They set josh up to be ambitious and want a nice life with no education skills.  He is exactly what his parents raised him to be.

[JenniferJuniper]

i believe he comes by his dishonesty honestly.   He was raised by parents who put out one personae for the public , voters and viewing audience of a perfectly loving and wonderful family snd "mother of the year " while blanket training their babies and having the older children raise the younger ones.  They taught him to hide sexual wrongdoing and go through the motions and it would be fine as long as no one found out and the worshiped at the feet of a serial sexual predator.  They set josh up to be ambitious and want a nice life with no education skills.  He is exactly what his parents raised him to be.

I agree.  They didn't set out to raise good people with a solid moral foundation, they set out to raise obedient kids.   Obedience is only going to work for so long, especially once the "trained up" are out of sight of the authority figures.  While they may not have another as disgusting as Josh with as high profile a fall as his, it's a given that their formula will fail with a high percentage of kids, especially boys, once they are out on their own.  Married or not. 

[Drala]

i believe he comes by his dishonesty honestly.   He was raised by parents who put out one personae for the public , voters and viewing audience of a perfectly loving and wonderful family snd "mother of the year " while blanket training their babies and having the older children raise the younger ones.  They taught him to hide sexual wrongdoing and go through the motions and it would be fine as long as no one found out and the worshiped at the feet of a serial sexual predator.  They set josh up to be ambitious and want a nice life with no education skills.  He is exactly what his parents raised him to be.

As despicable as Josh behaves, I also feel for the guy.  Yeah, he makes my skin crawl, but like you said, he's a monster of parents' making.  At his age--especially with all the disgrace he's brought on himself--it's time for him to take responsibility for his life and actions. I'm hoping against the odds that he gains some insight into the true nature of his problems.  

[JenniferJuniper]

As despicable as Josh behaves, I also feel for the guy.  Yeah, he makes my skin crawl, but like you said, he's a monster of parents' making.  At his age--especially with all the disgrace he's brought on himself--it's time for him to take responsibility for his life and actions. I'm hoping against the odds that he gains some insight into the true nature of his problems.  

Josh is an adult.  A married man with a family.  He owns this outright.

Which is not to say his parents don't suck.  Lots of us didn't have stellar parenting, but wouldn't dream of hurting people the way he has.  

Not to mention the fact that he repeatedly molested children until he was 15 and basically put on lock down to prevent further assaults.

I have no sympathy for him.

[HarleyQuinn]

I never got the sense Michelle suffered from any form of abuse outside of Jim Bob. Her siblings, from what we hear of them seem relatively normal. I really think that JB is the ultimate control freak and manipulated an already impressionable teen. 

[notfundy]

@sophrosyne  

You said above : "Say more notfundy (and others upthread) about why you don't think he's at RU. (I'm curious and interested in your view, not contesting it.)"

I wanted to acknowledge your question - and the way in which you posed it (thank you!).  I want to give a more thoughtful response than "Just because I have a feeling he's not at RU" &  I'll have the time to do that a little later today.    I agree with your point about the confidentiality that is inherent/expected in traditional recovery programs, including and maybe especially residential recovery, so I would hope that his "co-reformers" would not be reporting on Josh but that someone in the general area of Rockford might have seen him.  I imagine him out and about in a striped prison outfit, although I know that is likely not what he is wearing. 

 

[salex]

Josh is an adult.  A married man with a family.  He owns this outright.

Which is not to say his parents don't suck.  Lots of us didn't have stellar parenting, but wouldn't dream of hurting people the way he has.  

Not to mention the fact that he repeatedly molested children until he was 15 and basically put on lock down to prevent further assaults.

I have no sympathy for him.

I don't have sympathy for him, I believe he is living just as he was taught to live, and that he is likely the tip of the iceberg of Gothard followers who are abusive or abused.  

Doing what you have been taught works doesn't mean you don't own it, just that you are in a culture that thinks and has taught you it is OK>