Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[Fundie Bunny]

I think with 7 kids you might never have time to do all the laundry even if the kids were in school and you were a stay at home mom. 

My grndma had 7 kids, a husband, a moter in law that hated everyone, and always had ssomeone else living at the house. And the youngest was breastfed until she was 3. I won't pretend she had free time, but she didn't turn to a cult. I think that's a big win

[Free at last]

I feel as though Josh lived the way that he did because he didn't have to own up to the mistakes that he made all those years ago. His parents covered it up and there were really no consequences for him, they continued to put him on a pedestal. Now he's an adult living his parents beliefs and he had a secret life. It's sad that Anna was dragged into this, it's sad that they have four children together who are I am sure missing their Dad, and it's sad that their belief system brought this about. 

Long time lurker, 1st post - I believe all the adult kid's problems stem from the fact that they can't REBEL. Under JB's crazy umbrella, they are forced to go along 100% with everything their parents believe and do it with a smile. If they don't, their parent's whole world comes falling down. That's a lot of pressure on kids just trying to find their way in the world. Everything is so tightly controlled that there are no opportunities to rebel in the little ways to make their own identity. When any idea that is strictly opposed by your parents is a sin, how are you suppose to learn how to navigate life well? The worse thing they could is try to navigate adulthood with the world watching. Jessa and Jill are just digging their hole deeper by allowing cameras and, by extension, the whole freaking world watch how they are messing up their life. Cause guess what - everyone is messed up in their own way. Too bad JB and Chelle only have room in their life for perfection. Gothard dangled that promise of having a perfect life and they gobbled it up. I got out of living a "perfect" life, but it leaves horrible scars. I'm wondering if any of the unmarried older kids are trying to passively rebel by not courting/marrying. Best way I know to defeat the world domination plan.

[AngelGirl8811]

Long time lurker, 1st post - I believe all the adult kid's problems stem from the fact that they can't REBEL. Under JB's crazy umbrella, they are forced to go along 100% with everything their parents believe and do it with a smile. If they don't, their parent's whole world comes falling down. That's a lot of pressure on kids just trying to find their way in the world. Everything is so tightly controlled that there are no opportunities to rebel in the little ways to make their own identity. When any idea that is strictly opposed by your parents is a sin, how are you suppose to learn how to navigate life well? The worse thing they could is try to navigate adulthood with the world watching. Jessa and Jill are just digging their hole deeper by allowing cameras and, by extension, the whole freaking world watch how they are messing up their life. Cause guess what - everyone is messed up in their own way. Too bad JB and Chelle only have room in their life for perfection. Gothard dangled that promise of having a perfect life and they gobbled it up. I got out of living a "perfect" life, but it leaves horrible scars. I'm wondering if any of the unmarried older kids are trying to passively rebel by not courting/marrying. Best way I know to defeat the world domination plan.

Welcome from lurkdom! You have some great points. There is no such thing as perfect and the J'Chelle and JB are trying to pretend that they have it. Hard place to be. Hopefully, they escape! 

[Drala]

Michelle has a crazy cat lady vibe but with children instead of cat collecting, how appealing to be a revered mom. 

LOL  

 

[xlurker]

Seems as good of place as any to say that I HATE whenever they say "train" a child!  You raise a child, teach a child--you don't train a child.  It's like fingernails on a chalk board every time.

 

[tcach]

As I recall, Michelle was frightened into getting saved by watching some movie on the end times when she was in high school

I had the misfortune to attend one of those things when I was in middle school. There were posters up in the hallways even though it was a secular school. I still don't know how they got away with that. A friend from Girl Scouts invited me to go and I had no idea what I was about to see. It was horrifying, I think that Billy Graham was featured in it and at  the end when the lights came on an Evangelical sort invited everyone who wanted  to avoid eternal damnation to join him on stage. People were crying as they walked up. Talk about peer pressure for those who remained behind (which I did.)

Years later some friends invited my boyfriend and me to a gathering on "relationships".  Similar situation except without the religion. A real pressure to join what seemed like a cult. When I didn't want to join I was the recipient of some real, direct pressure. I think later we found out that it was some kind of EST outgrowth.

[Chickenbutt]

Maybe Josh is somewhere being "re-blanket trained" by some old Gothard bitty. "Sit on the blanket Josh...here is a hooker. *smack on the hand with a wooden spoon* No! You cannot leave the blanket or touch the hooker! How many times must you be told?!"

I am crackin myself up here......lol. I am so easily amused.

As to Michelle and JB, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you think that Michelle may have been fundie lite, then after the miscarriage, JB blamed her and brainwashed her about it being HER fault since SHE took the BCP's and look what happened. If she had just followed the Gothard way this never would have happened. And now JB has something to hold over her head so she will "obey" him and be sweet, precious and all that other crap?

[Cleopatra7]

Jim Bob was introduced to the Gothard stuff when he attended the Financial Freedom Seminar.  He began selling the program and holding seminars of his own (for money).  He once said that he and Michelle admired the way homeschooled kids using Gothard's ATI program behaved/were disciplined, and wanted that for their kids, too.  But that's not the real reason they got involved with ATI.  The real reason, again, was money.  By the time little Josh was legally required to go to school, the Duggars already had six kids.  Jim Bob didn't want to pay for the expensive, private Christian school he went to as a kid, so they homeschooled.  Here's the current tuition schedule at the school Jim Bob went to:

http://www.shilohsaints.org/admissions/tuition/standard-rate

Interestingly, female teachers and students can wear slacks at that school and boys are photographed wearing shorts!

Public school wasn't an option because Jim Bob's kids wouldn't fit in there with their used clothes, shoes, and Little-House-on-the-Prairie dresses – plus, he would lose control of them as their single, authority figure.  Besides that, the kids were needed at home to do the laundry, the cleaning, the cooking and the child care.  Also, the Duggars didn't want to be under the watchful eyes of school counselors, etc.  

I wonder though if price was really the reason the Duggars decided to homeschool. They are pretty anti-organized education, whether public or private, as is Gothard. Even going to a "Christian school" would require the kids from getting out from their parent's so-called umbrella of protection, and mix with other children from different backgrounds. While it would certainly be cost prohibitive to send all the Duggars to a Christian school, I think that the real problem is that JB and Michelle simply decided that homeschooling is the only "godly" option per Gothard.

[notfundy]

Isn't the home schooling questions -- for Gothardites, at least - about the intense fear of losing your child's heart to ANYONE but the parents? Erica Shupe is like that.... Doesn't want her kids exposed to the influence of teachers, coaches, etc. I think the Duggars were/are afraid of their children being "trained up" by others, even for short periods of time. That's sad; shows such a lack of confidence in your own parenting. Also sad because kids can benefit so much from being exposed to other caring adults... I'm a believer in the "it takes a village" school of thought.

Clearly the Duggars outsourced their parenting and schooling to the J'slaves; that's not the village I'm referring to.

So, that and also avoiding the attention of CPS.

[garciarodrigez]

This notion might get me flamed because I know it's out there and purely wild speculation on my part.  My mind just keeps going there because there have been no sightings.  Also, it ain't like the Duggars don't lie.

BUT....could that ass be in jail?  what for I don't know but anything is possible.

[nokidsmom]

It is indeed interesting that there have been no sightings.  If Josh were really in RU, someone would have spilled the beans by now.  It's a total mystery where he is but one place is not jail, at least in the normal sense (he might find RU or where ever he is the equivalent of jail though).  He hasn't broken the law.   Infidelity is not breaking the law anymore and the molestations were when he was a minor.  If there were something else out there that would put him in jail, there would be no way that could be covered up.

He's hiding somewhere, whether in RU perhaps separate from the rest of the population or somewhere else entirely.   Where ever he is, it seems he's on complete lockdown because there's been absolutely nothing, no news, no sightings, nothing at all.  

 

[Flyinthesoup]

Jim Bob was introduced to the Gothard stuff when he attended the Financial Freedom Seminar.  He began selling the program and holding seminars of his own (for money).  He once said that he and Michelle admired the way homeschooled kids using Gothard's ATI program behaved/were disciplined, and wanted that for their kids, too.  But that's not the real reason they got involved with ATI.  The real reason, again, was money.  By the time little Josh was legally required to go to school, the Duggars already had six kids.  Jim Bob didn't want to pay for the expensive, private Christian school he went to as a kid, so they homeschooled.  Here's the current tuition schedule at the school Jim Bob went to:

http://www.shilohsaints.org/admissions/tuition/standard-rate

Interestingly, female teachers and students can wear slacks at that school and boys are photographed wearing shorts!

Public school wasn't an option because Jim Bob's kids wouldn't fit in there with their used clothes, shoes, and Little-House-on-the-Prairie dresses – plus, he would lose control of them as their single, authority figure.  Besides that, the kids were needed at home to do the laundry, the cleaning, the cooking and the child care.  Also, the Duggars didn't want to be under the watchful eyes of school counselors, etc.  

Do you have a time line on this?  I have tried searching to figure out when the Duggars entered into ATI and I obviously stink at getting that information.  I was trying to establish how long they had been in ATI when the first reported molestations occurred. 

[Finduilas]

Maybe Josh is somewhere being "re-blanket trained" by some old Gothard bitty. "Sit on the blanket Josh...here is a hooker. *smack on the hand with a wooden spoon* No! You cannot leave the blanket or touch the hooker! How many times must you be told?!"

I am crackin myself up here......lol. I am so easily amused.

As to Michelle and JB, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you think that Michelle may have been fundie lite, then after the miscarriage, JB blamed her and brainwashed her about it being HER fault since SHE took the BCP's and look what happened. If she had just followed the Gothard way this never would have happened. And now JB has something to hold over her head so she will "obey" him and be sweet, precious and all that other crap?

What you are describing is Joshie being spanked while looking at a hooker  Not sure it would work out to kill his sex drive  

[Seven Severn]

I don't think Smuggar has a sincere cell in his body. At an early age he learned to say what his parents/Gothard wanted to hear and do so with the required smile on his face. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's had genuine contempt for his parents and their lifestyle since he was a teenager. He learned to manipulate Boob and DQ and everyone else to get what he wanted within the parameters that were in place. He will never truly change until he gets real therapy from a qualified, experienced professional who can clearly see through his façade and manipulation and work accordingly. Also, I think his seeming lack of empathy and inflated sense of self and sense of entitlement indicates that he tends towards sociopathy. I really think he's just acting a part most of the time.

About RU: They're clear that participants have no expectation of privacy. As others have reiterated, the required church services are broadcast on the internet and are open to the public and the participants are working out in the community. Also, they aren't a medical facility and there are no health care professionals on staff, so HIPAA isn't on the radar. If Josh were there someone in the community or at the services would've seen him. Of course that doesn't mean that they'd talk about it, but it is odd no one has said anything. Maybe the midnight flight to Rockford was diversionary. Or it could be that he's there but on double secret probation. I think he might be in Paragould, but only time will tell.

 

[ksgranola1]

What's Paragould?

[Dandruff]

Maybe they have Josh tucked away at Big Sandy.  He could stay hidden, there's probably a lot of work to be done since HQ will be moving there, and many closed-mouthed fundies to keep an eye on him and report back.

I wonder whether the M-kids have been told that daddy is on a long business trip.  What else could they have been told?

[2manyKidzzz]

Maybe they have Josh tucked away at Big Sandy.  He could stay hidden, there's probably a lot of work to be done since HQ will be moving there, and many closed-mouthed fundies to keep an eye on him and report back.

I wonder whether the M-kids have been told that daddy is on a long business trip.  What else could they have been told?

Certainly not the truth. Poor Mkids. 

[Seven Severn]

What's Paragould?

Paragould is a small town on the other side of Arkansas that has a fundie "rehab" facility. Just after the AM scandal broke JD flew there and the plane was there for about eight hours -- plenty of time for Boob and DQ  to get a tour of the facility, pray, pray, pray, get checked in, have dinner, and tuck li'l Joshie in.

[ksgranola1]

Oh, that  makes sense. So maybe Anna gets to go there & have marriage counseling w/him. And believe me, they are going to need it. he can't just mosey back into the TTH & think all will be hunky-dory.

[Drala]

Paragould is a small town on the other side of Arkansas that has a fundie "rehab" facility. Just after the AM scandal broke JD flew there and the plane was there for about eight hours -- plenty of time for Boob and DQ  to get a tour of the facility, pray, pray, pray, get checked in, have dinner, and tuck li'l Joshie in.

What's the name of the facility in Paragould?

[VelociRapture]

This notion might get me flamed because I know it's out there and purely wild speculation on my part.  My mind just keeps going there because there have been no sightings.  Also, it ain't like the Duggars don't lie.

BUT....could that ass be in jail?  what for I don't know but anything is possible.

Probably not. If he were in jail there would have been an arrest warrant issued and information posted online for that area's Court. Not sure about Arkansas or DC, but in my state you can actually search through databases posted on the Court District's websites to see who has an arrest warrant out, who has court appearances scheduled, and you can see what activity has been going on for specific cases.

Not only that, but the local media would have picked up on it as well. They often report when people have been arrested - I would assume a Josh Duggar arrest would be big news.

[garciarodrigez]

I knew it was far fetched to think that he could be in jail.  Maybe just wishful thinking.  Lol.

I thought of the possibility he might be in Texas too.  Sounds secluded enough to hide a guy out a while.

[Toothfairy]

 

Yeah, that's what Michelle said, too.  She cracked up and some neighbor came in to help with the laundry.  The thing is, if she had just sent her kids to school like most people do, she would have had time to get the household chores done without the kids being underfoot and without having to teach them, too.  

 

Michelle took that as a sign from the Lord to have more kids.

[notfundy]

http://www.privatedrugtreatmentcenters.com/arkansas-christian-rehab/paragould-arkansas-christian-rehab/
For question re: name of facility in Paragoud, Arkansas - here's link.  Seems it is just called "Christian Rehab" ???  (I need to look at it again.)

Yup - I remember the plan going there not too long after the trip to Rockford with the very short trip on the group.  Interesting if THAT was a diversion and he's really in Paragould.  I still feel that if he were in Rockford there would have been a sighting (what with the "no expectation of privacy" and all that).

 

http://christian.rehabalcoholdrug.us/paragould-ar-christian-drug-rehab-center-paragould-ar/   Or is it this one?  

 

[Imrlgoddess]

OMG OMG OMG

Watching the CMA's...& the hosts just did a little song parody about Ashley Madison. One line went something to the effect of..."when you get tired of your wife & your sister....."

They end the song & Brad Paisley straight up said "Josh Duggar". Carrie just stood there with an "oh shit" look on her face.