Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[Seven Severn]

One thing to keep in mind is that pilots of small planes don't have to file flight plans. There could be all kinds of trips going to all kinds of places in the U.S. and we wouldn't know about it. Maybe Halcionne's source could clarify under what circumstances flight plans have to be filed and when they don't, hint hint. 

[Drala]

 

 

Ranch advertising says it's around an hour outside of Nashville.  Legit residential rehab centers for sex/porn addiction aren't a dime a dozen.  There's Pine Grove in Hattiesburg Mississippi where Tiger Woods went.  It has an international reputation and looks too worldly and is definitely pricey.  There's a place in San Antonio that has a Catholiic vibe.  There's also a place in rural Arizona that has Christian programming, but that seemed too far afield.  

[EmCatlyn]

Emmalyn:  If Anna and Josh received joint therapy, that would suggest to me that Josh is getting something other than prayer and guilt as his "rehab".  The fundie model for "treatment" seems to be prayer, preaching, personal counsel and lots of manual labor.  Are you saying marital counseling would be included in that?  

Well, I wasn't thinking marital counseling the way ordinary people do it, but I got the impression that after a certain period of time she might visit him and they would pray together or something.  Maybe I got this from the imaginative media or maybe it was something on the RU website. Who knows.  Anything is possible.

Right now the only thing that would surprise me is that he is secretly "home" with Anna and the kids. Anna is seeing him, I believe it is as part of his "therapy" which I tend to agree is probably a lot of praying and hard work.

But I have no idea really.  Like everyone else I just amuse myself with guessing.  

Ranch advertising says it's around an hour outside of Nashville.  Legit residential rehab centers for sex/porn addiction aren't a dime a dozen.  There's Pine Grove in Hattiesburg Mississippi where Tiger Woods went.  It has an international reputation and looks too worldly and is definitely pricey.  There's a place in San Antonio that has a Catholiic vibe.  There's also a place in rural Arizona that has Christian programming, but that seemed too far afield.  

We all know that the Duggars don't care for legit and do care about price.    It is about 60 miles from Nashville airport, but not all on interstate.  Close enough to an hour though.  Maybe too close. Josh could hitch hike to sin!

[foreign fundie]

If I was Anna, praying with him would be harder than sharing a bed with him. I hope they don't force her to do either.

[nokidsmom]

I think there are things about Josh that the Duggars know that we don't. They must have thought he was pretty far gone to actually send him to rehab. I don't think it was just for show, otherwise it would've been a Rob Ford situation where he was seen roaming the streets, stopping in at restaurants, and out in like two weeks.

Totally agree that there's got to more far more on Josh than what we have seen thus far.    The Joshgates are only the stuff that went public.  I still think that JB has to be uneasy over any more stuff that might potentially come out or that his son has been completely honest about all his transgressions and the family will be blindsided again.

This "rehab" or whatever or wherever it is, was definitely done because they think Josh has serious problems and they mean business, it's not just for show, they intend for it to "fix" him.

Now whether or not it does, remains to be seen.  My money is on he will emerge claiming to be a renewed and changed man only to mess up again.

[halcionne]

So...do the Gothardites run reformatory-type camps for wayward members? Some cults are famous for this sort of thing. (l'm thinking of the Scientologists.)  Are there any accounts from former members to suggest Gothardites have that level of organization and secrecy?  Three or more months of reindoctrination would take some focused resources.  The fact that Josh hasn't been seen suggests he's being kept in strict seclusion.

There are accounts of Sea Org-type of abusive 'treatment' at at least one IBLP facility (now defunct or moved, maybe? I haven't looked too closely because what little I did see upset me), Eagle Springs Training Center in Oklahoma. In finding these links, I see that Eagle Springs was for girls only, but it follows that there is/was a similar campus for boys.

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/post-traumatic-stress-discussions/introductions-personal-stories/173925-my-story-long

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2014/07/cults-and-cult-behaviors/ (halfway down the page)

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/09/sweeping-the-stairs-an-exercise-in-will-breaking/ (not Eagle Springs, but still IBLP and still horrible; Eagle Springs is mentioned in comments

The fact that Anna doesn't clearly appear to be involved in Josh's "rehab" effort makes me doubt somewhat  that he's at at legit treatment facility for something like porn addiction. After 90 days, he should have done some sort of joint marital work, assuming best practice treatment protocols apply.  If tabloid rumors a few weeks back are true that Josh begged Anna not to leave him, this suggests joint marital counseling took place.  It could have happened on Anna's trip to Florida. 

It won't be 90 days at RU--if he's there, which I still think he is--until November 25. Happy Thanksgiving, Josh. Gobble, gobble!

[imokit]

Totally agree that there's got to more far more on Josh than what we have seen thus far.    The Joshgates are only the stuff that went public.  I still think that JB has to be uneasy over any more stuff that might potentially come out or that his son has been completely honest about all his transgressions and the family will be blindsided again.

This "rehab" or whatever or wherever it is, was definitely done because they think Josh has serious problems and they mean business, it's not just for show, they intend for it to "fix" him.

Now whether or not it does, remains to be seen.  My money is on he will emerge claiming to be a renewed and changed man only to mess up again.

I agree.  There have been plenty of fundies caught cheating, some of them were involved in Ashley Madison (eg Sam off of Sam & Nia).  The normal response is to grovel, ask for forgivness and repent and be extra pious and work on marriage.  The wife normally issues a disapproving but suportive and forgiving statement soon after as well.

 Immediately shipping someone off to rehab is not a normal response to this, even fundy circles. That response tells me that there's more to it than what we know.

I agree that at some point they'll bring Josh out, and show off happy families and redemption, providing that he and Anna cooperate.  But I think there's more to it behind the scenes and the JB is probably walking a tight rope between getting his son to fall in line, but not pushing too far to accidentally push him out.

At the moment the person who is by far the most likely and has the most to gain from a Duggar tell all is Josh.  Yes he's not innocent, but people will still buy a book off him, and with his current reputation and poor job prospects, it might be the best way he has of providing for his family.  He has nothing to loose.

[halcionne]

One thing to keep in mind is that pilots of small planes don't have to file flight plans. There could be all kinds of trips going to all kinds of places in the U.S. and we wouldn't know about it. Maybe Halcionne's source could clarify under what circumstances flight plans have to be filed and when they don't, hint hint. 

I'll ask about this. We've touched on it a little bit in the past, but what we see on Flight Aware is proprietary (not really, because it's on other sites too). My point is that we don't know for sure where that info comes from, but anon thinks it comes from air traffic control as a sort of record of the "flight following" service that pilots can request as a courtesy for safety/accountability purposes.

[KSmom]

I agree.  There have been plenty of fundies caught cheating, some of them were involved in Ashley Madison (eg Sam off of Sam & Nia).  The normal response is to grovel, ask for forgivness and repent and be extra pious and work on marriage.  The wife normally issues a disapproving but suportive and forgiving statement soon after as well.

 Immediately shipping someone off to rehab is not a normal response to this, even fundy circles. That response tells me that there's more to it than what we know.

I agree that at some point they'll bring Josh out, and show off happy families and redemption, providing that he and Anna cooperate.  But I think there's more to it behind the scenes and the JB is probably walking a tight rope between getting his son to fall in line, but not pushing too far to accidentally push him out.

At the moment the person who is by far the most likely and has the most to gain from a Duggar tell all is Josh.  Yes he's not innocent, but people will still buy a book off him, and with his current reputation and poor job prospects, it might be the best way he has of providing for his family.  He has nothing to loose.

I do think that Josh has many issues to deal with (not the least of which is the messed up messages about women, relationships, sex he got from his parents).

I think part of why he was sent away was because of how much backlash that the Duggar parents got to the way they handled (or really didn't) his molesting. They must have had some thought that if they were ever going to get in the public's good graces again, they were going to have to at least make a show of really doing something. I think they probably sent him to a rehab place, but not one that any of us would think was credible or worth the money at all. If he's not at RU, I think it would be someplace similar. I don't think there is anyway they would go for real treatment, because to them psychology is just of the devil.

[nokidsmom]

I do think that Josh has many issues to deal with (not the least of which is the messed up messages about women, relationships, sex he got from his parents).

I think part of why he was sent away was because of how much backlash that the Duggar parents got to the way they handled (or really didn't) his molesting. They must have had some thought that if they were ever going to get in the public's good graces again, they were going to have to at least make a show of really doing something. I think they probably sent him to a rehab place, but not one that any of us would think was credible or worth the money at all. If he's not at RU, I think it would be someplace similar. I don't think there is anyway they would go for real treatment, because to them psychology is just of the devil.

Agree that JB and J'chelle had to show this time that they were really doing something.  Though considering that this is not true credible "rehab" nor involving real psychology / psychiatry tells me that they still haven't gotten the message that they did it wrong the first time.  It seems a repeat of the first time, meaning they are still going the route of treatment that is not effective.    The only thing that JB and J'chelle seem to have learned is a thing or two about public perception.

But I also think it was a way to pack Joshie off somewhere where he couldn't continue to do more damage to the family brand.  To have him still walking around being prompted to respond to the media, was not something that JB was going to risk.   Especially if more scandalous information came out. 

[KSmom]

Agree that JB and J'chelle had to show this time that they were really doing something.  Though considering that this is not true credible "rehab" nor involving real psychology / psychiatry tells me that they still haven't gotten the message that they did it wrong the first time.  It seems a repeat of the first time, meaning they are still going the route of treatment that is not effective.    The only thing that JB and J'chelle seem to have learned is a thing or two about public perception.

But I also think it was a way to pack Joshie off somewhere where he couldn't continue to do more damage to the family brand.  To have him still walking around being prompted to respond to the media, was not something that JB was going to risk.   Especially if more scandalous information came out. 

I agree with this and I think that all of us on this forum know that he is probably not receiving effective treatment. But, I think that they do think they are getting him the proper treatment. I've seen too many people that are so wrapped up in their ideology that no matter what evidence you show them they are not going to consider it at all. Their belief system requires them to distrust all psychology and most science, so I can't see them even considering a legitimate treatment program. And, they probably think they are being great parents and getting him the help he needs on top of that.

[Seven Severn]

I'll ask about this. We've touched on it a little bit in the past, but what we see on Flight Aware is proprietary (not really, because it's on other sites too). My point is that we don't know for sure where that info comes from, but anon thinks it comes from air traffic control as a sort of record of the "flight following" service that pilots can request as a courtesy for safety/accountability purposes.

Gotcha. Thank you for the clarification!

[hollywood]

I just always wonder what they have told the kids about him. "Mom, where is Dad?" that kind of thing...

 

[Drala]

Don't you suppose there will be a fair amount of media scrutiny when Josh resurfaces?  Even if he has highly scripted public ststements, the language he uses to talk about his change  experience will reveal a lot about the nature of his "treatment."  If Josh was enough of a train wreck to warrant rehab of some sort, then any success he or his family claim for him is likely to be investigated.  

[AngelGirl8811]

Yeah I'm interested in seeing what will happen once he does appear. Will he just pretend that it never happened? Will he make some sort of statement about being changed? 

[imokit]

Yeah I'm interested in seeing what will happen once he does appear. Will he just pretend that it never happened? Will he make some sort of statement about being changed? 

Gonna be hard to pretend it never happened,  The press will be all over him (remember the footage just after J1.0 of the press mobbing him as he & Anna went through an airport with the kids?).  And if they don't, obnoxious people will spam social media of Jill & Jessa. Jessa won't miss an opportunity to comment on it (unless JB reads her the riot act in advance).

[Sundaymorning]

Gonna be hard to pretend it never happened,  The press will be all over him (remember the footage just after J1.0 of the press mobbing him as he & Anna went through an airport with the kids?).  And if they don't, obnoxious people will spam social media of Jill & Jessa. Jessa won't miss an opportunity to comment on it (unless JB reads her the riot act in advance).

Do you think Boob still has much power over Jessa? Now that she has the show instead of him, I don't think she'll be very impressed. And sure, Bin works for Boob, but honestly, it's not like he couldn't find a similar job anywhere else. From what I've learned here on free jinger, lawn care seems to be a pretty lucrative business.

[sj3339sta]

Agree that JB and J'chelle had to show this time that they were really doing something.  Though considering that this is not true credible "rehab" nor involving real psychology / psychiatry tells me that they still haven't gotten the message that they did it wrong the first time.  It seems a repeat of the first time, meaning they are still going the route of treatment that is not effective.    The only thing that JB and J'chelle seem to have learned is a thing or two about public perception.

But I also think it was a way to pack Joshie off somewhere where he couldn't continue to do more damage to the family brand.  To have him still walking around being prompted to respond to the media, was not something that JB was going to risk.   Especially if more scandalous information came out. 

Why?  He is a grown ass man.  They no longer have any responsibility for raising him.  They completely failed all their children as parents, Josh included.  But they can't fix that now as an adult.

[EmCatlyn]

I just always wonder what they have told the kids about him. "Mom, where is Dad?" that kind of thing...

 

The kids have either been told that Daddy is on a mission or that he is sick in a special hospital.  

[Rubyroo]

I searched FJ and I've been reading almost daily since the scandal broke and haven't seen anything about this 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2551918/duggar-family-abandons-son-josh-duggar-in-illinois/

Inquisitr has a picture from RU of a softball game posted-get this-September 19th and they claim Josh is in it? I don't really see him in the picture but its worth mentioning. I don't think he would have been outside, playing softball so soon after leaving for fundie camp.

[EmCatlyn]

Agree that JB and J'chelle had to show this time that they were really doing something.  Though considering that this is not true credible "rehab" nor involving real psychology / psychiatry tells me that they still haven't gotten the message that they did it wrong the first time.  It seems a repeat of the first time, meaning they are still going the route of treatment that is not effective.    The only thing that JB and J'chelle seem to have learned is a thing or two about public perception.

But I also think it was a way to pack Joshie off somewhere where he couldn't continue to do more damage to the family brand.  To have him still walking around being prompted to respond to the media, was not something that JB was going to risk.   Especially if more scandalous information came out. 

I don't know about more scandalous information but certainly the issue here was that the Duggars wanted to (a) show they were doing something and (b) get him out of the public eye until the scandal died down.  And I also feel that JB and Michelle wanted to help him.

Just because a child is grown, you don't stop wanting to help.  I have known people with adult kids with substance-abuse problems who have used up their lifetime savings on rehab or lawyer fees or both to "save" them.  

I can't imagine the Duggar parents making any significant sacrifice for a son who has shamed them and cost them money, but they probably want what is best for him.  And they believe in prayer but not in psychology, so they would probably send him somewhere that we won't consider legit but which they hope might help. 

Anyway, I don't think they will care that the sinful public may not see their choice of rehab as legit. They think we are all going to hell anyway. If Josh comes back repentant and ready to bear witness to his New Improved Relationship with God, they will be thrilled to welcome him and support his ministry--or his lawn mowing business.

 

 

 

[Percy]

I searched FJ and I've been reading almost daily since the scandal broke and haven't seen anything about this 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2551918/duggar-family-abandons-son-josh-duggar-in-illinois/

Inquisitr has a picture from RU of a softball game posted-get this-September 19th and they claim Josh is in it? I don't really see him in the picture but its worth mentioning. I don't think he would have been outside, playing softball so soon after leaving for fundie camp.

I saw this as well. I don't think it looks like Josh, but who knows?

[RosyDaisy]

The only cure for child molesters is life in prison.

[sophie10130]

I saw this as well. I don't think it looks like Josh, but who knows?

Yeah, I'm not convinced either. Something about the stance is weird. Would he wear shorts?

 

[EmCatlyn]

I searched FJ and I've been reading almost daily since the scandal broke and haven't seen anything about this 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2551918/duggar-family-abandons-son-josh-duggar-in-illinois/

Inquisitr has a picture from RU of a softball game posted-get this-September 19th and they claim Josh is in it? I don't really see him in the picture but its worth mentioning. I don't think he would have been outside, playing softball so soon after leaving for fundie camp.

I don't know about the picture but I was struck by their claim that on October 16(?) one of the prayer requests was from Josh.  Inquisitr likes to make things up, and there are other people named Josh, but it is not impossible that this is the first "sign of life" of Josh at RU.

As for the stuff about how the Duggars have abandoned him, if he is at RU, there was no guarantee he could have visitors or leave campus on the dates stated.  The RU rules included other requirements besides time spent to be in good standing enough to get visitors etc.  

We also don't know for sure that some Duggars haven't driven, or gotten to Illinois in some other way without being noticed.  Anna was under the radar for quite a while.  

Who knows!?