Can someone tell me what fundy-lite actually is?

[OkToBeTakei]

OkToBeTakei, I'm also annoyed by the change to the divorce laws. Sexual fidelity matters to gay people too.

1004srs, I used to be on the fence about marriage equality. But I didn't come to the conclusion I did because of following the herd, but simply because marriage equality is about fairness and treating people equally.

I think the fact that the government could not decide what constitutes “sex†between people of the same gender so they will not be able to divorce on grounds of adultery or non-consummation is horrific. It almost negated the whole act in it's inequality in my view.

[1004srs]

Well, my religion says marriage is for procreation.

My bff is in a long term committed relationship and doesn't want to get married - but he would like some of the rights associated with marriage such as being able to add his partner onto his health insurance.

I hated being married and wouldn't wish my abusive marriage on anyone.

Years and years ago, I lived with a guy and was able to add him on to my health insurance at work since he didn't have insurance. Why can't everyone do that - I do know that health insurance is a big overhead expense for employers. Logically I understand why all don't offer that benefits.

I, personally, don't have a dog in the fight, so I haven't fully formed an opinion. I refused to be bullied into one.

I don't think sex between consenting adults should be anyone business. But, sex and marriage are 2 different things.

I can go on and on as to why I waffle........

[ILoveJellybeans]

The reason why some gay people would like to get married in churches is not because they want to stomp on religious traditions and mimic their ceremonies-its because it is possible to be both religious and gay. Some branches of Christianity are supportive of gay marriage, and want the right to marry them in their churches. If you are a gay person and dont want to get married in a church, you can choose not to, just as a straight atheist couple dont have to get married in a church. Christianity does not own the word marriage. Also in some states in America there is no equivalent to marriage for gay people that is legally recognised, so gay people do not have the benefits that civil unions bring.

And seriously? Just because they cant decide what counts as sex for gay people, they cant define adultery and non consumnation. Its easy. Cant they just decide that putting something into someone elses vagina or butt, whether a part of your body or a vibrator or doing anything that involves your naked genitals touching counts as sex.

With adultery, it could include any form of sexual act, also including oral and cybersex, or whatever the couple decides is cheating, some people would even include kissing someone other than their partner.

[yewchapel]

Well, my religion says marriage is for procreation.

My bff is in a long term committed relationship and doesn't want to get married - but he would like some of the rights associated with marriage such as being able to add his partner onto his health insurance.

I hated being married and wouldn't wish my abusive marriage on anyone.

Years and years ago, I lived with a guy and was able to add him on to my health insurance at work since he didn't have insurance. Why can't everyone do that - I do know that health insurance is a big overhead expense for employers. Logically I understand why all don't offer that benefits.

I, personally, don't have a dog in the fight, so I haven't fully formed an opinion. I refused to be bullied into one.

I don't think sex between consenting adults should be anyone business. But, sex and marriage are 2 different things.

I can go on and on as to why I waffle........

I am straight so I guess I 'don't have a dog in the fight' either. Doesn't mean I can't see that marriage equality is right. And if your religion says marriage is for procreation then I guess you should be against post-menopausal women getting married too.

Why is marriage between consenting adults anyone's business either?

[formergothardite]

Well, my religion says marriage is for procreation.

My bff is in a long term committed relationship and doesn't want to get married - but he would like some of the rights associated with marriage such as being able to add his partner onto his health insurance.

I hated being married and wouldn't wish my abusive marriage on anyone.

Years and years ago, I lived with a guy and was able to add him on to my health insurance at work since he didn't have insurance. Why can't everyone do that - I do know that health insurance is a big overhead expense for employers. Logically I understand why all don't offer that benefits.

I, personally, don't have a dog in the fight, so I haven't fully formed an opinion. I refused to be bullied into one.

I don't think sex between consenting adults should be anyone business. But, sex and marriage are 2 different things.

I can go on and on as to why I waffle........

So basically it is all about you and you don't really care what other people want?

Your religion says it is wrong, so you get to force that religion on everyone else.

You hated marriage so obviously gay people shouldn't be allowed the chance to get married.

You have a friend who doesn't want to get married so gay people shouldn't get married.

These are all really, really horrible reasons to even waffle on equality and shows that you are apparently extremely self-absorbed. If you are really as educated and capable of thinking things through as you have claimed to be, then you would be able to see that gay marriage shouldn't be banned based on your religion or your feelings towards marriage.

[formergothardite]

By the way, this isn't bullying, this is saying that if you are willing to deny equality to someone, then you should at least take 5 minutes to think about why you waffle on a subject and not to force your religion and feelings onto everyone else. If you cannot support gay marriage based on those reasons, then you are forcing your religion and feelings onto gay couples. If anyone is being a bully it would be you since you won't support marriage equality.

[1004srs]

Well, my religion says marriage is for procreation.

My bff is in a long term committed relationship and doesn't want to get married - but he would like some of the rights associated with marriage such as being able to add his partner onto his health insurance.

I hated being married and wouldn't wish my abusive marriage on anyone.

Years and years ago, I lived with a guy and was able to add him on to my health insurance at work since he didn't have insurance. Why can't everyone do that - I do know that health insurance is a big overhead expense for employers. Logically I understand why all don't offer that benefits.

I, personally, don't have a dog in the fight, so I haven't fully formed an opinion. I refused to be bullied into one.

I don't think sex between consenting adults should be anyone business. But, sex and marriage are 2 different things.

I can go on and on as to why I waffle........

I don't have a fully formed opinion and I refused to be bullied into one.

I have to say this is why I don't post much here. Unless you agree 100% with the hive, you are wrong and a bigot. I am not wrong nor am I a bigot.

[1004srs]

By the way, this isn't bullying, this is saying that if you are willing to deny equality to someone, then you should at least take 5 minutes to think about why you waffle on a subject and not to force your religion and feelings onto everyone else. If you cannot support gay marriage based on those reasons, then you are forcing your religion and feelings onto gay couples.

I am not denying equality to anyone by not having an opinion. That is stupid. :roll:

[formergothardite]

So you would vote for gay marriage and support it? Because if you will not support gay marriage or vote for it then you are denying equality to gay couples.

[1004srs]

So you would vote for gay marriage and support it? Because if will not support gay marriage or vote for it then you are denying equality to gay couples.

I don't have the option to vote or not vote for gay marriage at this point. So, I do not have a fully developed opinion. If I get the option, then I will look more into what is involved with the wording of the bill in my state and make a fully formed opinion.

[OkToBeTakei]

The reason why some gay people would like to get married in churches is not because they want to stomp on religious traditions and mimic their ceremonies-its because it is possible to be both religious and gay. Some branches of Christianity are supportive of gay marriage, and want the right to marry them in their churches. If you are a gay person and dont want to get married in a church, you can choose not to, just as a straight atheist couple dont have to get married in a church. Christianity does not own the word marriage. Also in some states in America there is no equivalent to marriage for gay people that is legally recognised, so gay people do not have the benefits that civil unions bring.

And seriously? Just because they cant decide what counts as sex for gay people, they cant define adultery and non consumnation. Its easy. Cant they just decide that putting something into someone elses vagina or butt, whether a part of your body or a vibrator or doing anything that involves your naked genitals touching counts as sex.

With adultery, it could include any form of sexual act, also including oral and cybersex, or whatever the couple decides is cheating, some people would even include kissing someone other than their partner.

Initially the govt had indicated that the matter would be left to the courts to decide, which may have left the issue uncertain for years. But officials drafting the bill sidestepped the issue saying simply that adultery would only apply to people of different sexes.

It just creates another inequality between heterosexual and gay couples whilst masquerading as a 'marriage equality' act.

[yewchapel]

Well, my religion says marriage is for procreation.

My bff is in a long term committed relationship and doesn't want to get married - but he would like some of the rights associated with marriage such as being able to add his partner onto his health insurance.

I hated being married and wouldn't wish my abusive marriage on anyone.

Years and years ago, I lived with a guy and was able to add him on to my health insurance at work since he didn't have insurance. Why can't everyone do that - I do know that health insurance is a big overhead expense for employers. Logically I understand why all don't offer that benefits.

I, personally, don't have a dog in the fight, so I haven't fully formed an opinion. I refused to be bullied into one.

I don't think sex between consenting adults should be anyone business. But, sex and marriage are 2 different things.

I can go on and on as to why I waffle........

I don't have a fully formed opinion and I refused to be bullied into one.

I have to say this is why I don't post much here. Unless you agree 100% with the hive, you are wrong and a bigot. I am not wrong nor am I a bigot.

Being opposed to marriage equality is homophobic. Homophobia is bigotry. There is a wide range of opinions on FJ, and plenty of religious folks, myself included. However, homophobia and other kinds of bigotry aren't just differences of opinions, they are wrong.

[mockingbird]

So, would you also deny marriage rights to infertile couples since they cannot participate in procreation (aka the purpose of marriage according to your religion)?

Why does what YOUR religion says about marriage get to define it for everyone else? Why not another religion that doesn't say marriage's sole purpose is for procreation?

ETA: What about adoption? Does that count as procreation? Gay couples can adopt too.

[valsa]

Unless you agree 100% with the hive, you are wrong and a bigot. I am not wrong nor am I a bigot.

Actually, you are wrong and you're a bigot and it doesn't matter if you're being wrong and bigoted here or somewhere where people like you are the majority.

[formergothardite]

I don't have the option to vote or not vote for gay marriage at this point. So, I do not have a fully developed opinion. If I get the option, then I will look more into what is involved with the wording of the bill in my state and make a fully formed opinion.

The only reason you don't have a fully developed opinion is because all your reasons to waffle on the subject are self-centered. You don't seem capable of saying "I don't want to be married and my religion doesn't support marriage, but obviously many gay couples do want marriage and there are many religions that do support gay marriage, so people who are gay deserve to be treated equally to me. And when the time comes I will read the bill and make sure gay couples are being treated equally to me." That is all it takes, and yet you are still focused on yourself and your feelings. I don't have the option to vote for gay marriage at this moment either, but that still doesn't mean that I can decide that people who are gay deserve to be treated like people who are straight. You are basically saying that you can't decide that gay couples deserve to be treated equally to straight couples because at this time you are still to busy thinking about yourself and your own feelings towards marriage. Not an educated response at all.

[valsa]

ETA: What about adoption? Does that count as procreation? Gay couples can adopt too.

Not to mention that gay people can use surrogates. IIRC, Neil Patrick Harris and his partner did that.

[1004srs]

Surrogacy is not allowed my my religion. Adoption is. Plus, until you are married you won't know if you are infertile - would you.

I am far from homophobic.

It makes me wonder - those who are throwing hateful names - if you are really secure in your beliefs or if you too waffle and are afraid to admit it publicly. Afraid of the hive mentality.

The Phelps clan does the same thing. Throws out hateful statements if you don't believe the same way they do.

By the way - a bigot is an intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views.

hmmmmmm......sound familiar anyone? anyone?

[valsa]

Surrogacy is not allowed my my religion. Adoption is. Plus, until you are married you won't know if you are infertile - would you.

So you do think everyone's behaviors and ability to marry should be based on your own religion?

I am far from homophobic.

It makes me wonder - those who are throwing hateful names - if you are really secure in your beliefs or if you too waffle and are afraid to admit it publicly. Afraid of the hive mentality.

The Phelps clan does the same thing. Throws out hateful statements if you don't believe the same way they do.

By the way - a bigot is an intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views.

hmmmmmm......sound familiar anyone? anyone?

I already said this in another thread but apparently it bears repeating- "You have to be tolerant of our intolerance or you're just as bad as us!" is stupid as fuck.

[formergothardite]

No, I am fairly secure in the idea that people who are gay deserve to be treated equally to me. If you don't like being called self-absorbed, well don't waffle on equality based only on your feelings about marriage and your own religion.

[1004srs]

So you do think everyone's behaviors and ability to marry should be based on your own religion?

I already said this in another thread but apparently it bears repeating- "You have to be tolerant of our intolerance or you're just as bad as us!" is stupid as fuck.

Everyone deserves tolerance. Those who agree with us, those who disagree and those who do not have full formed opinions. Tolerance is not reserved only for those who agree with me.

oh wait.......that is stupid, isn't it

As someone who has spent most of her career as a bureaucrat, I say, read the bills regarding gay marriage before you agree or disagree with them.

[1004srs]

By the way - before you start throwing out big words read a little bit about what they mean.

Tolerance is a fair, objective attitude to those whose opinions differ from one's own. Tolerance is not big on this post. :?

Edited for typo.

[mockingbird]

Surrogacy is not allowed my my religion. Adoption is. Plus, until you are married you won't know if you are infertile - would you.

:doh: Divorce. People who try to have kids outside of marriage. Diseases which, or whose treatments, virtually guarantee infertility. Honestly, get your head out of the sand. Not everyone lives like you or has your past.

Why does your religion get to decide how everyone else can act?

ETA: And so are you not acknowledging surrogacy because you don't condone it? Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[formergothardite]

I guess if I'm a bigot and intolerant it is in the same way that someone who says discriminating against someone based on the color of the skin is wrong is a bigot and intolerant.

And that would make 1004srs the same as someone who says, "Well I can't really say that discriminating against someone based on the color of their skin is wrong. I'm just so torn on the subject of equality based on skin color." I'm sure she tolerates and doesn't see KKK members as bigots either.

And I agree, we do need to read the bills about gay marriage closely, to make sure that they are truly giving equality.

[1004srs]

Can't stand to lose a fight can you?

How about being more tolerant of other's opinions? or lack thereof?

Interesting......

[formergothardite]

You can't stand to look logically at what you are actually saying. You said everyone deserves tolerance, so I guess you tolerate the KKK. You also claimed to be making educated decisions, yet the only reason you waffle on the subject of equality is because you are being selfish. That isn't making an educated decision, that is making an emotional one based on you and you alone. No one said that the bills shouldn't be read closely.

I've never claimed to be tolerant. I don't tolerate racism, I don't tolerate animal abuse, I don't tolerate child abuse, I don't tolerate rape apologists and I don't tolerate discrimination against people because they are gay. But apparently you do tolerate these things because you believe everyone deserves tolerance.