Police officers killed in Dallas

[SpoonfulOSugar]

5 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

@Meridae This isn't about one death. Many black men have been shot, killed, and been victims of excessive force. Perhaps the officers should have thought about the impacts before they did what they did.

With all due respect, for *her* community, it is about that one death.  You're talking past her concerns.  She was talking about a personal element, and people who minimize or dismiss the personal elements don't help.

When an attack happens in abstract, at a distance, how we (humans) experience and process it is different than when it happens in *our* community.  It's just part of human nature.

And why does "The officers should have thought about it" even enter into a discussion of a sniper attack on officers in a completely different community?  

[LadyCrow1313]

A friend posted the following comment on Facebook earlier today:

The world has gone mad.

I can't help but agree with her statement. It's very sad when events like this occur & are commonplace nowadays; I know this'll probably seem naïve, but I wish the world wasn't so damned angry & could live life without so much violence. My heart weighs heavy & I truly feel very badly for those whose lives are lost & whose lives are affected by all of this.

 

 

[VelociRapture]

My thoughts as follows:

1. My utmost love and sympathy go out to the families and loved ones of these officers. Showing up to do your job and ensuring someone's freedom to protest should not mean forfeiting your life.

2. My utmost love and sympathy also go out to the families of black men and women across this country who have been killed by Law Enforcement or who have been victims of racial profiling as well. Having darker skin than someone like me - a pasty white woman - should not put you at increased risk for violence at the hands of Law Enforcement.

3. Violence accomplishes nothing. It just breeds more hate and more violence. Instead of building bridges, it burns them.

4. Not all Cops are racist killers. Some are. Not all black people are criminals. Some are. People on both sides need to stop generalizing these situations because it helps absolutely no one and doesn't address the deeper issues of abuse of power and racial tensions.

5. Saying "Black Lives Matter" does not mean "Black Lives Are More Important Than Cops' Lives Or White Lives." It simply means "Black Lives Matter Too." People who argue otherwise are part of the problem and, quite simply, come across as not really giving a shit about finding common ground or solutions.

6. I am so tired of waking up to horrific news. I am weary to my soul of seeing stories about black people gunned down by cops and cops being shot for doing their jobs. I am so tired of reading about people dancing in a club or praying at Church or innocent children in their classrooms being gunned down. There is no good reason why this country has allowed these things to happen for so long. There is no excuse for it. Congress, the NRA, and voters who elect politicians who oppose sensible gun control measures - they all have the blood of innocent men, women, and children on their hands.

7. From what I've read this far about this specific shooting, it appears that the shooters had nothing to do with the protestors. I wouldn't be surprised if this had been planned long before the protest was and they simply used this as an excuse to commit violence. So my heart also goes out to all the peaceful protestors out there who will likely be painted with the same violent brush as these murders by people with their own political agendas and biases.

- Stated by a young, pissed off, pasty white woman from the North who is tired of all the hate and does not want this to be the type of country her child inherits one day.

[Snarkylark]

Shooter says he acted alone but there are three other suspects. It was racially motivated, according to the police chief. https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36745862?client=safari#

[louisa05]

9 hours ago, iweartanktops said:

@Meridae, with all due respect, Black people have been living this for MANY years. It's just on video now. I think some people thought the footage would help get justice. So far it hasn't. I don't agree with what's going on, but it's not shocking at all. 

Here is what pisses me off:

From my white friends & family in person and via social media, there is grief and outrage today about the police. But for the past three days, not a word about the latest victims of police shootings. Crickets. 

And I want to scream at them: this makes you part of the problem. You don't get to post "all lives matter" today because the black ones didn't matter to you at all.

[foreign fundie]

I can understand that there could be an occasional very tragic misjudgement of a situation and an innocent person gets killed without it being somebody's fault. And being a police officer, you put your life on the line, and there is danger, and you may have children yourself waiting at home. But I just can't understand why it keeps happening. So often. And in a country where everyone except for some crazies under a bedsheet agree racism is wrong, and you never kill anybody unless they endanger the life of another person. 

 Dunno, it just seems senseless that enforcers of the law don't know when to hold fire... If they can't, then how can you expect normal people to behave responsibly with guns?

And yes, all my respects to those who suffer the unnecessary loss of a loved one in these tragedies, black or white. What a way to lose your dad. I just can't.

 

 

[Rachel333]

8 hours ago, Mecca said:

These snipers cannot be part of the Black Lives Matter movement or protests. The protests have been peaceful around the country. Violence is what they are fighting against. It just all seems so well planned out by some other group of people that have an agenda and took advantage of the protests. There are stupid racist all over the place that want to pin anything and everything on the Black Lives Matter movement and make it out to be something it is not. I don't want this movement tainted. It is important. It needs to continue. 

I hope it's not true, but unfortunately police think right now that the snipers were connected to BLM because they seemed to know exactly where the march was moving to. Even if it's true, though, that doesn't mean that the movement as a whole had anything to do with it. No matter how good a group is in general, there is pretty much always going to be some really awful people involved and it only takes one for something like this to happen.

I support BLM too, so I hate that, as unfair as I think it is, this is probably going to seriously taint the movement. This is about the worst thing I can think to happen with BLM.

[Mecca]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

Here is what pisses me off:

From my white friends & family in person and via social media, there is grief and outrage today about the police. But for the past three days, not a word about the latest victims of police shootings. Crickets. 

And I want to scream at them: this makes you part of the problem. You don't get to post "all lives matter" today because the black ones didn't matter to you at all.

Exactly. Husband opens up his Facebook and of course people are posting about the situation. We recently moved from Dallas and have many friends there, but those exact same people posting about the officers did not say shit about the Orlando shootings or when black men get gunned down. They keep saying "All Lives Matter." No they don't. All lives do not matter to them. Where was their outrage at the other situations? Nothing. They don't get it. They don't understand their attitude is what causes division. None of this should happen. 

I really try to be optimistic in all things, but it scares me to my core that I am beginning to think we cannot recover from this sickness the U.S. is suffering from. Violence, rage, guns, racism and bigotry. And now we have a Republican nominee that incites and encourages division and a Republican lead legislative branch that have blocked bills that could help protect the public and have made President Obama's life hell. We don't want to work with each other anymore. We want to live separately. The leaders encourage that separation. Discouraging. 

If people can't open their hearts and minds, I just don't see how we turn this around. 

[Rachel333]

The sad thing is that the stories of the two men who were killed by police were two more of a long list of similar murders while this story is fairly unusual.

I wonder if people are going to start looking through the pasts of the four murdered officers to find anything they might have done wrong in their life that will give people a reason to justify not feeling sad about their deaths. Somehow, though, I really doubt it...

[laPapessaGiovanna]

23 minutes ago, Mecca said:

I really try to be optimistic in all things, but it scares me to my core that I am beginning to think we cannot recover from this sickness the U.S. is suffering from. Violence, rage, guns, racism and bigotry.

Sadly it seems violence levels are rising everywhere in Western countries. 

A refugee man was beaten to death here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/08/widow-nigerian-man-beaten-death-italy-granted-refugee-status-chinyery-emmanuel-namdi- 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I just feel defeated by all of this. I will hug my husband tighter. Rome is burning. I cling to love. 

[Cleopatra7]

To be honest, I'm surprised this isn't happening more. Peaceful protests have been occurring for almost three years and haven't accomplished a thing. Groups like the NAACP and the Urban League have been fighting against police brutality and extrajudicial killings for over a century and it not only keeps happening, but we're constantly being told that it's the collective fault of the black community. At this point, I have no hope that things are going to get better. "Mainstream America" has demonstrated over and over again that black lives don't matter, and has no interest in rectifying this situation. If black lives did matter, we wouldn't have the state of affairs we have today, where large numbers of black people are forced into open air prisons called ghettoes, pushed into substandard schools and then into prison, and shot in the streets with no provocation. We're supposed to just take this treatment with a smile, like this is "Gone with the Wind", knowing that we can never aspire to be as good as our "racial betters." This country had its chance to improve racial conditions after Reconstruction and then after the Civil Rights Movement and squandered it both times. As far as I'm concerned there is no future for this country until we rid ourselves of this racial caste system, and since there is no interest in doing that, we have nothing to look forward to but more of the same.

[Rachel333]

7 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Sadly it seems violence levels are rising everywhere in Western countries. 

A refugee man was beaten to death here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/08/widow-nigerian-man-beaten-death-italy-granted-refugee-status-chinyery-emmanuel-namdi- 

I don't know about Italy, but in the US this is a misconception. Violence crime levels are actually much lower than they were a few decades ago. http://www.wanttoknow.info/g/violent_crime_rates_reduction We're much safer than we used to be, it just doesn't seem that way because we're used to hearing so much about violence in the media.

That story is still horrible, though, and I know the fact that crime rates are decreasing overall isn't much of a comfort to people who did lose a loved one.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

Here is what pisses me off:

From my white friends & family in person and via social media, there is grief and outrage today about the police. But for the past three days, not a word about the latest victims of police shootings. Crickets. 

And I want to scream at them: this makes you part of the problem. You don't get to post "all lives matter" today because the black ones didn't matter to you at all.

Speaking only for myself:

I haven't not publicly spoken about these men's deaths (or the deaths of many other black people) on social media. I also, however, have not spoken about the deaths of these officers (or other officers) either. I did speak after the deaths at Pulse and the shooting at Sandy Hook - I fully admit to feeling more connected with those shootings than others because my brother is a Bisexual Teansgender man and because I grew up in a town very close to Newtown (many of our Police and emergency responders helped at the scene and helped cover shifts for the Police in the aftermath; I also know people who lost family members at Sandy Hook as well.) It's easier to know what to say and how to say it when you're connected to those communities affected. My greatest fear is I will act or speak in a way that causes additional damage to those who have lost loved ones.

I think part of the reason I posted here and not on social media is because I feel comfortable here. I know that on here, if I need to be set straight, people are likely to do so with respect and civility. That isn't the case on social media a lot of times. Plus, I feel like posting here actually helps give me very valuable insight into the very real struggles that many black people (and members of other minority groups) face on a daily basis.

Once I feel I know more and have a better base understanding, maybe I can start participating in those conversations more in different areas of my life. Until then, I don't feel entirely comfortable - the absolute last thing I want is to say or do anything that could wind up harming those affected. I want to help move things forward, not accidentally set things back - and it can be difficult to know how I can do that at times.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

4 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

And why does "The officers should have thought about it" even enter into a discussion of a sniper attack on officers in a completely different community?

Personally I interpreted @rosydaisy words a bit differently. There's nothing in the world that can justify this attack against innocent policemen that were only doing their job, just nothing. What maybe she meant is that those trigger happy policemen are guilty of not respecting the same law they should upheld and consequently of actively fostering the diffused violence. When an environment is perceived as increasingly violent the violence tends to increase even more. Violence breeds violence.  In this, those policemen that dishonour their uniform and give people reasons to think that they need to fear and even hate police, definitely have a responsibility.

If I were a honest police officer I would be mad first of all at politicians and their laws that consent gun proliferation in such an abundance that I need to constantly fear for my life as someone can start shooting any moment. And secondly to these nutjobs that give a bad name to all LEOs and foster distrust and hate towards blue uniforms. But I am not one of them, moreover I don't even live in the US so very probably I got it all wrong. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

16 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I don't know about Italy, but in the US this is a misconception. Violence crime levels are actually much lower than they were a few decades ago. http://www.wanttoknow.info/g/violent_crime_rates_reduction We're much safer than we used to be, it just doesn't seem that way because we're used to hearing so much about violence in the media.

That story is still horrible, though, and I know the fact that crime rates are decreasing overall isn't much of a comfort to people who did lose a loved one.

You are right. What I meant, and explained very poorly, is that lately there's an increased perception that we live in a violent and racist world where crimes are on the rise (here it's true only for non violent burglaries) and you are always more at risk of becoming a victim. This for many reasons first of all social media's echo chamber effect, more traditional media adopting increasingly apocalyptic tones (for sales related reasons) and right wing politicians that are totally surfing these waves favored by the fact that they survive thanks to the fear fostered by bad news and since good news aren't news at all that leaves only the bad news. 

Rrgardless of the reasons though when you fan on the flames like this something is bound to happen. And that something will make the news and will be echoed over and over and over and will contribute to the perception of increasingly violent times and the cycle starts again even more amplified. 

[Mecca]

This is also an issue about gun control and gun violence. The NRA have sucessfully brainwashed a large portion of the population, including law makers, into believing that when a mass shooting occurs if only the people were packing in the crowd it would all be different. We see from last night's unfortunate event that is not true. There were numerous cops everywhere carrying and one gunman with an AR-15 and a massive amount of ammunition. The gunman murdered five officers and wounded seven. It took a damn bomb to take him out. So no, NRA.... you are wrong...AGAIN. 

May I speak frankly? And I mean no disrespect by saying this, but I don't really care if crime rates are up or down. Having an average of 91 people in the U.S. die daily by gun violence is too much. We can't be comfortable with that many people dying in the U.S. Look at the numbers of black men dying due to gun violence. This needs to cease. 

[Khan]

The 24 hour news All Terror and Violence networks are stirring the pot. Try for ratings but showing and discussing the horrible things humans do to each other.  Can we ever get some good news? See communities pulling together after something like this?  Establish clear guidelines and training so people stop getting shot. Please, can we stop glorifying violence in America and show some compassion for each other? It looks like even joining a peaceful protest like this one still has one at risk for taking a bullet.

[Geechee Girl]

There ain't ever gon be no justice for us. Popo gun us down in the street, and we don't get no medical attention. Body bags stay ready. Our bodies left in the middle of the street like roadkill. Our executions get replayed over and over again on tv. First thing media do is dig up crap to minimize our worth. Cop killers get sent down for life. Popo get admin leave with pay, a gofundme, and then back on the streets. Where are the good LEOs to call out this behavior if it's just a few bad cops? Radio silence. They won't admit that racial profiling and police brutality are part of the cancer that is institutionalized racism. All lives don't matter, that's a lie white America tells itself, and I ain't buying it.

[RosyDaisy]

Personally I interpreted@rosydaisy words a bit differently. There's nothing in the world that can justify this attack against innocent policemen that were only doing their job, just nothing. What maybe she meant is that those trigger happy policemen are guilty of not respecting the same law they should upheld and consequently of actively fostering the diffused violence. When an environment is perceived as increasingly violent the violence tends to increase even more. Violence breeds violence.  In this, those policemen that dishonour their uniform and give people reasons to think that they need to fear and even hate police, definitely have a responsibility.

If I were a honest police officer I would be mad first of all at politicians and their laws that consent gun proliferation in such an abundance that I need to constantly fear for my life as someone can start shooting any moment. And secondly to these nutjobs that give a bad name to all LEOs and foster distrust and hate towards blue uniforms. But I am not one of them, moreover I don't even live in the US so very probably I got it all wrong. 

Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. Of course there is no justification for yesterday's shootings. There was also no justification for LEOs shooting black men who were cooperating or were already subdued. There definitely no excuse for a LEO shooting into a car with a young child inside.

[louisa05]

A relative just posted this on Facebook: 

ETA: Can't get the image to load. It is a white girl in a formal dress with the following text overlaid: "How about all lives matter. Not black lives, not white lives. Get over yourself. No one's life is more important than anyone else's. Put away your race card and grow up". 

Fuck her. Fuck them all. 

And could the picture on that be more of a portrait of white privilege? 

[Kailash]

4 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Here is what pisses me off:

From my white friends & family in person and via social media, there is grief and outrage today about the police. But for the past three days, not a word about the latest victims of police shootings. Crickets. 

And I want to scream at them: this makes you part of the problem. You don't get to post "all lives matter" today because the black ones didn't matter to you at all.

EXACTLY what I'm seeing too. I've been trying to figure out how to say something that will have an impact.

[louisa05]

And my aunt, the grandmother of three mixed race young people (their mother, my cousin, who was adopted, is Native American and their fathers are African-American) just shared that same disgusting post with the comment that she "agrees 100%--these blacks need to grow up". 

What message did she just send to those grandkids? 

And how can someone read that and not see how fucking paternalistic it is? Let us, your superiors by way of skin tone, explain to you why you have to grow up and get over it when people are getting killed. 

People are getting killed. We're not talking about drinking fountains anymore. People are getting killed for no reason and there are white people who think that "get over yourself and grow up" is an appropriate response????? 

Sorry for the rant. I am fucking angry. And ashamed that these assholes are part of my extended family. 

[FlamingFundie]

But what can I do? As the aunt of a biracial child, I am terrified.

What. Can. I. Actually. Do?

[Chicken bones]

1 hour ago, Mecca said:

This is also an issue about gun control and gun violence. The NRA have sucessfully brainwashed a large portion of the population, including law makers, into believing that when a mass shooting occurs if only the people were packing in the crowd it would all be different. We see from last night's unfortunate event that is not true. There were numerous cops everywhere carrying and one gunman with an AR-15 and a massive amount of ammunition. The gunman murdered five officers and wounded seven. It took a damn bomb to take him out. So no, NRA.... you are wrong...AGAIN. 

May I speak frankly? And I mean no disrespect by saying this, but I don't really care if crime rates are up or down. Having an average of 91 people in the U.S. die daily by gun violence is too much. We can't be comfortable with that many people dying in the U.S. Look at the numbers of black men dying due to gun violence. This needs to cease. 

Exactly. I live in DFW too, grew up in Dallas. So it's scary and disturbing, but honestly not super surprising.  But guns...I'm sure a lot of civilians were carrying yesterday and all the police, but did that stop the shooter, no! We need altogether FEWER guns allowed and sadly, not a jack shit thing will be done about.  

(Yes, people that want to kill others will still try. But i think about how not long after Sandy Hook, there was an attack on a preschool by a crazed man. He didn't manage to kill 20+ children because he had a knife. Not a gun.  Still horrific but they survived. Because gun control.)