Police officers killed in Dallas

[Kailash]

12 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

And my aunt, the grandmother of three mixed race young people (their mother, my cousin, who was adopted, is Native American and their fathers are African-American) just shared that same disgusting post with the comment that she "agrees 100%--these blacks need to grow up". 

What message did she just send to those grandkids? 

And how can someone read that and not see how fucking paternalistic it is? Let us, your superiors by way of skin tone, explain to you why you have to grow up and get over it when people are getting killed. 

People are getting killed. We're not talking about drinking fountains anymore. People are getting killed for no reason and there are white people who think that "get over yourself and grow up" is an appropriate response????? 

Sorry for the rant. I am fucking angry. And ashamed that these assholes are part of my extended family. 

Grow up????? How is that relevant at all? They can't get too grown, they're being killed before that can happen. *rage* *rage*

[Shadoewolf]

Race came up during the Brock Allen Turner, Stanford Dumpster Rapist discussion. I believe the general opinion was that had he been a black student instead of the privileged white boy, he'd have gotten prison and then some. Look at the Stubenville high school football players. Still a case of prominent athletes with bright futures but one of those boys got 2 years in prison. 

And this may not be popular opinion but here goes....

I don't, in any way condone the violence in Dallas. BUT, when there is no justice for Trayvon, no justice for Brown or Alton or Philandro except "paid administrative leave", you have to expect some form of retaliation. People in general have had enough and if the officials in charge do nothing,  we're going to see a lot more situations like Dallas or race riots in most of the major cities. 

We have to stop seeing each other as black or white, as Christian or Muslim, as rich or poor. We are all PEOPLE, we all breathe same air, we all bleed red. We are all mothers and fathers,  sons, daughters, sisters, brothers. We all want to live and be happy and we should all have that right. We are supposed to be one of the nost advanced powers in the world, yet we're killing each other. Its insane.

[Geechee Girl]

34 minutes ago, FlamingFundie said:

But what can I do? As the aunt of a biracial child, I am terrified.

What. Can. I. Actually. Do?

Have y'all had "The Talk?" Prepare them for the reality of possible discrimination, profiling, and the like. Encourage the family to recognize his/her experience may be starkly different from the rest of the family. If you see something, say something. Don't let ish slide in person or on social media. Call it out. 

[NakedKnees]

I know everyone's social media feeds are different, and I did a whole lot of "unfollowing" in 2014 and 2015, but what's really getting me right now is how after the last few murders of black people by police, particularly those this week, I've been seeing a loooot of use of the phrase "straw the breaks the camel's back."

So I'm not surprised, and I'm not numb- I'm extremely saddened and distracted by all of this today- but I honestly believe that it's far from over. I doubt we've even seen the social movement, or leaders, or hashtags that will really solve this madness quite yet, but I do have hope that they're coming. I don't want to be apathetic.

That said, nothing will make me okay with uttering/typing certain phrases that include the terms "all" and "blue." These phrases entirely exist to detract from the notion that black lives matter, not to raise up blue or all lives. 

I hope all of those who are victims or traumatized by this week are getting the love, space, and/or attention they need right now.

[Snarkylark]

Teach your children that "Stop, don't move!" means stop and don't fucking move!!! And "hands up" means put your hands UP!!! How does a PO know you aren't going for a weapon? He doesn't and he only has a split second to make that decision whether he goes home to his family or you do. I'm Caucasian and you can bet I'd be telling any PO that pulled me over every step I'm taking and every move I'm making so I don't get shot! 

I didn't watch the video of the latest officer involved shootings because I don't want that in my head. The media bringing up arrest records sucks but it's also likely what information the officers had when they made the stops and unfortunately may put them more on edge. I don't know all the particulars in the officer involved shootings but I do know "stop!" means STOP!

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Just couldn't believe it when I saw all the alerts popping up this morning.  Until four months ago, I worked in downtown Dallas for the last 15 years. 

 A lot of my older relatives are posting their usual rhetoric that All Lives Matter, Back the Blue no matter what, etc.  But what surprised me is that the younger set, even the ones I would consider fundie lite, are posting/sharing things that show empathy for the families and communities of the two men killed by police earlier this week.  It gives me a sliver of hope that change will come about that will help stop all these senseless killings. 

[Mecca]

Except some of these men are being shot when asked to get their license and registration out. What are they supposed to do? They are told to do something and they do it and they get shot. So no, sometimes doing what you are told does not work out. 

 

 

[Snarkylark]

3 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Except some of these men are being shot when asked to get their license and registration out. What are they supposed to do? They are told to do something and they do it and they get shot. So no, sometimes doing what you are told does not work out. 

 

 

Then that burden falls on the police officer. Follow commands slowly and tell the police what you are doing. 

[season of life]

I feel bad for any servicemembers because they have said that the shooter was previously in the military. It makes it look as though all veterans are violent. Although I have heard that some soldiers are suspicious of his military background because apparently he was still a private (PFC? I'm no good at military lingo) after coming back from Afghanistan.

[Kailash]

1 hour ago, Snarkylark said:

Teach your children that "Stop, don't move!" means stop and don't fucking move!!! And "hands up" means put your hands UP!!! How does a PO know you aren't going for a weapon? He doesn't and he only has a split second to make that decision whether he goes home to his family or you do. I'm Caucasian and you can bet I'd be telling any PO that pulled me over every step I'm taking and every move I'm making so I don't get shot! 

I didn't watch the video of the latest officer involved shootings because I don't want that in my head. The media bringing up arrest records sucks but it's also likely what information the officers had when they made the stops and unfortunately may put them more on edge. I don't know all the particulars in the officer involved shootings but I do know "stop!" means STOP!

This sounds too close to "teach your daughter what to wear so she's not raped."

 

[Mecca]

58 minutes ago, Snarkylark said:

Then that burden falls on the police officer. Follow commands slowly and tell the police what you are doing. 

Honestly, this is easier said than done. An example I have talked about before on here in the threads regarding profiling and Muslims. Short story version: 9/11. Husband was profiled because of his appearance when we were coming back into the country from our vacation in Canada. It did not matter that we are citizens and had our passports and DL. One officer was screaming at us to get out of the car with our hands up while the other officer was screaming at us to stay in the car. I asked one officer what I should do only to be told to be quiet. Ever have a gun held to your head while being screamed at? So yeah, again easier said than done.

I am not trying to be an asshole here. I am trying to give a different perspective. Sometimes it does not matter what one does when the person on the other end is not all together, not been properly trained, or maybe has some sort of bias. I do not think all officers are bad. My BIL is an officer. I have worked with officers closely in both of my careers. I undertand their job is difficult. I get sometimes they have to protect themselves and the public, but sometimes it just does not matter if a person does as they are told. Sometimes people that should not die actually do die because of the actions of the officer, not because of their own actions. 

[Kailash]

That's a good point @Mecca. Who knows how any of us would react when we feel our life is in danger? I know I would have a hard time remembering exactly what I'm "supposed" to do, whether faced with a gun or a grizzly bear.

[Mecca]

3 minutes ago, Kailash said:

That's a good point @Mecca. Who knows how any of us would react when we feel our life is in danger? I know I would have a hard time remembering exactly what I'm "supposed" to do, whether faced with a gun or a grizzly bear.

I agree. Sometimes it just does not matter when you do everything you are told. Sometimes people freak out when put in stressful situations. We did stay calm. We did as we where told. We still had guns to our heads and screamed at. 

[louisa05]

31 minutes ago, Kailash said:

This sounds too close to "teach your daughter what to wear so she's not raped."

 

Thank you. That is exactly what I thought when I read it. 

When I worked at Christian school there was a dress code. It was the mid 90s and the whole fad of boys having their pants hanging down and their underwear showing was just beginning. A group of white senior boys decided to protest that this was not allowed in the dress code (the truly stupid aspects of the dress code were fine with them...pants hanging down was the hill they wanted to die on...). We ended up having a whole  scene over their protest in a senior class meeting with me and one other teacher present. In the middle of it, a couple of boys advocating for sagging pants appealed to one of their class officers to stand up for them on the grounds that it was racist to ban them. An African-American. He told them he wouldn't. Then he told them that he could not walk around like that. He told them that he and his brothers already routinely got followed around the local mall by security and if their pants were sagging, they wouldn't just follow them. He told them that they also didn't have to worry about being late to school due to  getting picked up on the way to school and hauled out of their cars like he was twice in one quarter. He told them that they had no idea what racism was and he didn't want to hear them using that to get their way about a dress code that would not affect their lives in a few more months. 

And every time shit like this happens and people explain why it isn't about race, I think of that young man. 

[sophie10130]

There was a man that Dallas police put on their TWITTER that he was the shooter. Mark Hughes. He was a peaceful protester and he and his brother were walking around together. Mark Hughes has a permit for his gun and he was carrying it around. Despite the fact that he was NOT the shooter, Dallas PD put out there that he was. He didn't even know! He got a call saying that DPD was asking for people to find him so he immediately went to a police officer, told them who he was and handed over his gun. That part was caught on film. He was detained (and maybe his brother too?) found innocent (nothing like innocent before proven guilty, right?) and yet they have not issued an apology or cleared his name. He is getting thousands of death threats still. That is not justice. That is inciting violence on this poor innocent man's life.

Also, there was a woman shot. Shetamia Taylor She was a civilian. She was shielding her sons (12 and 17) from gunfire. She's in the hospital in stable condition but I haven't heard much about her from people other than eye-witnesses. Where's the outpouring of grief for this Mother trying to protect her children?

Blue lives have always mattered more than Black lives. That's the truth. It always has been from the very inception of the police force. They will not splash these officers' dead bodies all over the news like they do with the black people who die at the hands of cops. Their bodies were not sitting on the ground for hours. These cops will receive justice. As they should. But that same justice is never afforded to black folks. 

This has nothing to do with the Black Lives Matter Movement. They know that something like this would discredit them. They know that this type of violence will only shore up defenses towards them where they want to break them down and have genuine discourse that will lead to actual change.

I may have been watching too much X-files, but this all smells so fishy to me. The amount of black men that are the perpetrators of mass shootings is basically nil. And on cops? At a BLM rally? After a week where 6 black people died at the hands of cops? Hm.

I shouldn't have to say it, but I will anyway. I don't condone violence. I don't think civilians or even officers should be allowed to carry lethal weapons. However, there is more at play than these officers, as sad as that is. I will be just as irate for Philandro Castile, Alton Sterling, Dylan Noble, Delrawn Small, Essence Bowman, and Stephanie Hicks. They need to be lifted up just as much as these officers do.

No one's life is worth more than any other, but when the media ignores these folks and their deaths, I will be there to raise them up.

[Emilycharlotte]

14 minutes ago, Kailash said:

This sounds too close to "teach your daughter what to wear so she's not raped."

 

No, it doesn't.  Rape is always a crime and nothing the victim wears, says or does can make it justifiable. However, not all shootings are murder, and there are situations when a police officer is justified in using deadly force--one  example being, as Snarkylark said, when they have told someone to put their hands up and the person reaches into their pocket instead. The officer doesn't know what's in your pocket and he or she shouldn't have to risk his/her life waiting to find out. 

I'm not saying that there are no bad cops or that all these shootings were justifiable because the victim didn't do as he was told because that clearly is not the case. But I don't think telling people that they'd better do exactly what the police tell them to do is at all the same as telling a girl that if she dresses sexy, it's her fault if she gets raped. 

[Toothfairy]

The protests was peaceful and quiet. Then suddenly two snipers started shooting. 

[usedtobenice]

Exactly! It was a peaceful protest. Absolutely not one problem.No 911 calls made. Protesters and officers were taking pictures together. Then the evil fuck changed everything. I'm against the death penalty, but couldn't muster any sadness when I heard he was dead.

[louisa05]

So I point blank asked my aunt how she does not understand that her two grandsons (African-Americans ages 19 and 22) could be one of these young men shot by police. 

Her answer: "they don't do anything wrong, so it will never happen to them". 

Right. Like never even having a tail light out. Of course. 

[Meridae]

19 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

@Meridae This isn't about one death. Many black men have been shot, killed, and been victims of excessive force. Perhaps the officers should have thought about the impacts before they did what they did.

Once again, I never claimed that it was only this one death. It just so happens that one of these has happened in MY community and thus hits closer to home for me. I'm talking about these particular incidents because the police shooting in Dallas could have been a response to these deaths, and I am concerned that this possible eye for an eye response (cops shoot black people, therefore cops will be shot back) could result in even more tensions and violence. This hasn't happened with any other police shooting as far as I'm aware, at least not on this scale, so escalation from here on out is a possibility. I feel deeply for everyone wrongfully killed by police but I don't want my city torn apart by evil people. If everyone could love and support each other, that would be best, but there's fear on all sides and that only drives us apart. The fear and violence HAS to stop.

[Snarkylark]

3 hours ago, Kailash said:

This sounds too close to "teach your daughter what to wear so she's not raped."

 

I disagree with that statement. Rape is about power. It doesn't matter what the victim is wearing in most cases. As another poster said, it's also a crime.  PO shootings may also involve power trips to some extent. Idk. But again, he has literally a millisecond to decide to shoot or not. It's a lot different watching it back. Show police officers respect, fear for your life, do what they say, and you probably will get home safely. Yes, there are bad POs out there. And yes, there are bad guys, too. And white men are shot by police, too. 

[Snarkylark]

And I just want to clarify- I'm not blaming the victims. And I don't always think the police are justified in every circumstance. It sucks that people are shooting people. But with the culture that has developed I can't say I blame POs for taking action of they feel their life is in danger. I just can't. It's definitely not a job I could or want to do. 

[CloakNDagger]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

So I point blank asked my aunt how she does not understand that her two grandsons (African-Americans ages 19 and 22) could be one of these young men shot by police. 

Her answer: "they don't do anything wrong, so it will never happen to them". 

Right. Like never even having a tail light out. Of course. 

And now it looks like their tail light wasn't even out. It was an excuse to see if they were robbery suspects. SMH.

[ADoyle90815]

 The sickening thing is that this was a very peaceful protest until those evil snipers showed up. When you see protesters and police taking selfies together, you knew it was a peaceful event.

[CloakNDagger]

32 minutes ago, ADoyle90815 said:

 The sickening thing is that this was a very peaceful protest until those evil snipers showed up. When you see protesters and police taking selfies together, you knew it was a peaceful event.

Yep. The DPD have been fairly good about working with protesters including armed protestors in general. These guys of all of them, probably deserved the attack the least. This attacker is probably going to further the divide, suspicion, and fear which will probably make the things he was worried about even worse. His actions will have an opposite affect on a large portion of either side of the argument.