Election Results 2016, Part 2

[SilverBeach]

1 hour ago, candygirl200413 said:

Although I'm slowly but surely recovering, one thing that is honestly pissing me the fuck off is that many people are posting statuses who are trump supporters and are essentially saying "guys get over it, he's your president, you need to respect him" and some have the AUDACITY to post it with a bible verse.

 

Funny, many of them had statuses saying Fuck Obama, he brought the divide, we were all loving each other before he came to office. I actually cannot with this right now.

No getting over it, I will never respect that bastard, it is genetically impossible for me to do so. He is not my president and will never represent me in any way, shape, or form.

[apple1]

32 minutes ago, moodygirl86 said:

... it's not that the majority of Americans wanted him to be president - just the higher percentage of those who actually voted...

It is not even that. He won the electoral college, but he didn't even have the majority of the popular vote.

[St.Clara]

Just in case anybody still considers leaving the US...

Spoiler

[apple1]

16 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You guys should check out the link @polecat posted above - top of this page - I'll copy it here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/steelmagnificat/2016/11/donald-trump-removes-pro-life-from-his-policies-12-hours-after-election/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=FBCP-PATH&utm_content=steelmagnificat

From article...

 

I need some better/more confirmation of the actual truth of this. I would like to share it elsewhere but I have to have ironclad confirmation of its truth.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, apple1 said:

I need some better/more confirmation of the actual truth of this. I would like to share it elsewhere but I have to have ironclad confirmation of its truth.

I should have made clear I was just commenting on the link but hadn't vetted it or sourced it yet.  I'm usually more clear and careful about posting - sorry.  

Sign I should get back to my real life.

 

[bertnee]

The Patheos column about Trump removing pro-life from the site has been retracted. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/steelmagnificat/2016/11/correction-donald-trumps-pro-life-status-was-not-a-previous-part-of-his-policies-statement/

[VelociRapture]

21 minutes ago, JoyfulSel said:

I truly hope so. This is such a huge hot button issue for me and there will be hell to pay.

I actually wanted to follow up on a few of your posts last night. My friend texted me a few minutes ago and said that at her job, a fellow co-worker who is pregnant, also with a baby girl, has been crying all morning absolutely TERRIFIED of the thought of Trump becoming president. She doesn't want to raise a child in this kind of world. I send all of my love to my pregnant sisters in this nation, you don't deserve to ever have to feel this way during such a positive time in your lives. <3

Aw! Thank you! I'm doing a bit better right now. Still have the uncontrollable desire to keep her safely in my belly for the next four years.

But that's not going to happen, so I'm just going to have to do everything I can to protect her once she's here. Like teaching her that NO ONE - not even her daddy or I - have the right to touch her without her permission (other than for normal parenting stuff - like bathtime - of course.) And seriously limiting her screen time to prevent too much exposure to Cinammon Hitler. And I'm now tempted to enroll her in karate classes when she's old enough. 

I've spent the morning playing with Velocipuppy and urging action on Facebook in the form of emailing your state reps. And posting here. That helped to a degree.

1 minute ago, St.Clara said:

Just in case anybody still considers leaving the US...

  Hide contents

Aw! You guys are so stinking adorable!!!

Husband and I are going to stay for now. We're white, straight, and aren't immigrants - we have far less to fear than many others (including my brother) who actually deserve the chance to seek safety in other countries if they want or need it. I'm privileged in a way they aren't - I have an obligation to stay for now and try to help keep things safe and equal if possible.

The second we even get a hint of, "First they came for the Jews," though all bets are off. Husband agreed we will grab our daughter, our dog, and as many family members as possible before getting the fuck out. 

[St.Clara]

I would not have thought that I might feel somewhat comforted by remarks like:

Quote

OK, Bernie voters. Can we get working on that revolution now? It's not Trump that needs to be defeated, it's the worldview that led to him.

But I do. In case you want to try that, too, click here.

[Mecca]

There is no stinking way Donald can follow through with most of what he promised during his campaign. It is impossible. I mean, build a wall and have another country pay for it? How is that even possible? How does he plan to round up people and pay for their deportation? How is he going to ban Muslims under the constitution? How is he going to do the massive tax cuts he promised while also trying to balance a budget? 

Trump will get into the White House and realize this is a lot harder than he ever anticipated. Trump can't just snap his fingers and shit gets done. That is why we have checks and balance system in place. It is amazing how many people truly have no clue how this all works. His promises will fall very short and the dumbasses that voted him into office will be left wondering what went wrong without understanding that when the moon is promised it cannot be delivered even when Donald Trump says it can be. 

[VooDooChild]

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said.  However, my vent is simply this:  I can't figure out if I feel so utterly disappointed in my fellow countrymen, or if I feel so utterly disappointed in myself for believing we were better than this.

2016 and we are still in the dark ages.  But should I have expected anything different from a country that was founded and shaped by racist rich white male privilege?

[apple1]

20 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I should have made clear I was just commenting on the link but hadn't vetted it or sourced it yet.  I'm usually more clear and careful about posting - sorry.  

Sign I should get back to my real life.

 

Please understand I was not questioning you nor criticizing you. :-)

[Imaginary_Wonderland]

Mmmm sorry to ask a dumb question that is probably very obvious to all of you. But I am not American and don't understand what appears at first glance to be a complicated political set up.

I keep reading today, here and elsewhere, that Clinton won the popular vote. But what does that mean really? Surely if you are the most popular, you get the majority of votes and claim the prize at the end. So why if she won popular vote is she not the one to become the President now.

[church_of_dog]

1 hour ago, JoyfulSel said:

WHY would poor people ever ever ever vote for Republicans???? WHY?!?!?!

 

53 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I know two Republicans who are very poor. They're single Moms who are living on public assistance and they both rail against welfare. They talk about how horrible it is. One of them even put up this horrible anti-welfare meme. 

Neither one believes they are on welfare, even though they both are. They insist on calling it EBT and WIC, and they insist that EBT and WIC are not welfare, even though they both are. 

I don't know what they actually think welfare is, but they're convinced they're not on it. 

There's a reason why Trump said he likes his uneducated supporters. 

It is my theory that people mostly vote based on impressions and stylized stereotypes, plus peer pressure of course.  As opposed to actually understanding both sides of an issue and choosing the side that best fits their values or experiences.

By way of anecdote:  I was a pollworker yesterday as I have been for the past several years.  I'm in California in a very small, very rural area that is highly conservative (about twice as many Rs as Ds, with a decent proportion of No_Party_Preference and American_Independent and a strong Libertarian mindset as well as actual registered Libertarians).   I knew my county would not go for Hillary but since I was in California I knew they wouldn't affect the state overall.  (Of course I was horrified as I saw how it was going nationwide and then this morning's confirmed result).

I had predicted that my county would have a higher proportion of votes for the Libertarian candidate than usual, because the conservative demographics here are poor, hardworking, mostly whites, with what I call "true conservative" values as opposed to either neocon or Trump-style values.  I assumed they would like his generic right-wing rhetoric but also be horrified by the vulgarity, the sexism/racism, the shallowness, the disrespectful and unethical behavior in general, and so turn to the other conservative candidate (Gary Johnson on the Libertarian ticket).  I haven't seen the entire county results yet, but from my precinct it appears I was wrong.   Gary Johnson did get around 3% which might be higher than in other areas, but not as high as I had imagined, and not enough to reduce the overall proportion of Trump votes.  Our precinct had votes matching the general demographics of twice as many Republicans as Democrats.

One observation I had:  California had something like seventeen ballot propositions as well as some state level races.  There were two pair of propositions that were related to each other -- meaning that the implentation of one proposition also depends on how the vote goes on the paired proposition.  In other words, the propositions were unusually complex (and even "usual" is pretty darn convoluted to start with).  Some people, including myself, had read up on them in advance and had marked notes so that we didn't have to try to actually remember/re-decipher our choices at voting time.

The observation that baffles me, though, is how many people came in to vote carrying NO notes, no sample ballot or the booklet with the explanations.  It doesn't take much brainpower nor voting experience (at least I had thought) to realize that the few-sentence description actually printed on the ballot is not a good guide to use in deciding whether one favors or doesn't favor some issue (with some exceptions, of course).  There are unaddressed aspects, conflicting claims, externalities and potential unintended consequences to consider.  But apparently an awful lot of people are satisfied to read the less-than-one-paragraph description and make their choice from that.

What I'm getting at (sorry so wordy, I've been eating polling-place cookies nonstop for 27 hours now...) is that I'm realizing, but horrified at the idea, that people actually make their voting choices just based on the vaguest and flimsiest of stereotyped characteristics.  Or purely by the party letter next to the name without any regard for anything they might know about the person's actual behavior, values, or character.

So it appears to me that people really did not want to vote for Hillary (perhaps for reasons, perhaps for general impressions, but I do not get the sense that it was due to any issue with voting for a female) but they didn't apply any matched assessment or reasoning to their Trump vote.  I don't see it as so much being that people are ok with his sexism/racism, but that they didn't weigh it out or think it through, just did a knee-jerk partisan vote or a knee-jerk dislike-her vote.  I do get, before anyone jumps on me about this, that "not considering an obvious issue" is more or less the same as accepting that issue, but I just don't think most people are *actively* accepting of the racism/sexism; rather that they passively accepted it in order to avoid the alternative.

I am not ok with any of this.  Having a hard time deciding how much to worry or make plans for dramatic life changes.  Sorry again for too many words.

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

Hi there from across the pond.

Really sorry about this result and so sad for Hillary. She deserved to win in my view.

However, do have faith in your constitution. Trump may be "republican" but he is not that popular within his party and even with a republican congress he won't be in a position to do what he likes without accountability - separation of powers is a great thing! Plus, I rather  suspect that he wanted to win the race but won't necessarily want to do the actual job. If he leaves a lot of the heavy lifting to more experienced advisers things may not be as bad as they seem right now.

I find his "views" personally repellent but then I could probably say the same about a lot of politicians around the globe. If they have absolute power then it is a problem - your Founding Fathers ensured this would never be the case.

 

 

[RoseWilder]

20 minutes ago, Mecca said:

There is no stinking way Donald can follow through with most of what he promised during his campaign. It is impossible. I mean, build a wall and have another country pay for it? How is that even possible? How does he plan to round up people and pay for their deportation? How is he going to ban Muslims under the constitution? How is he going to do the massive tax cuts he promised while also trying to balance a budget? 

Trump will get into the White House and realize this is a lot harder than he ever anticipated. Trump can't just snap his fingers and shit gets done. That is why we have checks and balance system in place. It is amazing how many people truly have no clue how this all works. His promises will fall very short and the dumbasses that voted him into office will be left wondering what went wrong without understanding that when the moon is promised it cannot be delivered even when Donald Trump says it can be. 

I read an article a few months ago (I can't remember well) that talked about how expensive it would be to implement his deportation plans, and the wall and all the other repulsive things he wants to do. 

[Toothfairy]

Now we have a vp who thinks the earth is only 6000 years old and voted to pass a bill for the taxpayers to pay to have gays shocked under coversion therapy. You are indeed a nation of sheep and just total and complete idiots. Congratulations. You not only got trump but his gang of idiots too. Everyone in the clown car.

[ViolaSebastian]

Today has been, without hyperbole, awful. And it's only 2:30 here. My Facebook is a shitshow, I've had to report multiple posts. My Trump supporter alcoholic cousin felt the need to comment on a post posted one of my friends (who happens to be a young African-American woman with an infant son). I commented on it, so he could see it. It was terrible and embarrassing and I feel responsible for bringing his negativity into her life when she is already understandable shaken and upset. This morning I had to go to the Hispanic studies department of my local university to do an oral interview for my Spanish class and there was a group of professors openly crying in the hallway. Is this what the next four years (Jesus, maybe longer?) is going to look like? Is this really where we are as a country? 

Thank you, fellow FJers, for letting me get this off my chest. It helps to know that others are as frightened as I am and going through the same thing. 

[RoseWilder]

11 minutes ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

Mmmm sorry to ask a dumb question that is probably very obvious to all of you. But I am not American and don't understand what appears at first glance to be a complicated political set up.

I keep reading today, here and elsewhere, that Clinton won the popular vote. But what does that mean really? Surely if you are the most popular, you get the majority of votes and claim the prize at the end. So why if she won popular vote is she not the one to become the President now.

The person who gets the most votes in each state is awarded the electoral votes for that state. Then the electoral votes are the ones that determine the presidency. Well actually, the people that make up the electoral college then vote on the winner. But historically speaking, the electoral college votes the same way the people of that state voted. There was an electoral college member who was saying last week that if Hillary won his state, he wasn't voting for her. 

This page explains it better: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

No getting over it, I will never respect that bastard, it is genetically impossible for me to do so. He is not my president and will never represent me in any way, shape, or form.

He's not my president either!  And I will never respect him, nor his supporters.  I will probably be fine, but there are many, many people who will truly suffer under this Trump/Pence presidency, and for a long time beyond, depending on how many Supreme Court justices get appointed in the next four years.  We are facing a world of hurt, and his supporters will have very little to show for their vote.  Manufacturing jobs ain't coming back.  But enjoy the openly racist activity all around your neighborhoods, since Trump normalized the KKK.

Agree that Trump is not at all interested in the hard work of being president, but he already planned for that.  He's going to have the V.P. do all the heavy lifting, while he travels around the country, "making America great again."  This is what his own son said during the campaign.  It will be similar to the Bush/Cheney years.  And with Republican majorities in both the Senate and the House, and likely a stacked Supreme Court, there will no longer be any checks or balances.

[Destiny]

I honest to god don't think he ever expected to win. I think the reason he was so sedate last night is he is now faced with the sobering reality of actually BEING president, and I think he's fucking terrified at the prospect. (So am I, for the record.)

I'm actually wondering if he's gonna end up bailing. Not that pence is an improvement, and he's arguably worse, but I wonder.

[hoipolloi]

In shock and sickened like so many others here.

To me, Trump's victory reveals the filthy rotting core of America which is the persistence of the racism, misogyny, and white-male-centered power that has shaped our government, society & history in the entire 240 years of the republic. The rotting core has always been there but Trump's candidacy has brought its denizens to the surface and into the mainstream, legitimizing them and their views. I do not know how the rest of us are going to stop this let alone reverse it.

There's plenty of blame to go around so the nuclear fallout at DKos, for example, is not surprising. I will say that I doubt Bernie Sanders could have done better. He's a Jew and a self-proclaimed socialist, and the former would have done him in if not the latter (see the above links). Besides, Russ Feingold (also a Jew & a former US Senator) essentially ran on a Sanders platform in Wisconsin and got trounced by the idiotic Ron Johnson, who should never been elected once. That should give you a good idea of how Bernie would have done overall in the Rust Belt.

I may have more to say later here but I am still processing all of this. Thank you all for your good comments - they are heartening even if all seems disastrous at the moment.

ETA: If we're going to blame segments of the voting population (apart from the obvious of anyone voting FOR Trump), I'd say that white women should be near the top of the list.

[Jinder Roles]

Still processing as a non-American/non-citizen currently going to school in the states. Sorry if this has been said before but a few things. (would enjoy to have conversation about any one of these if you feel up to it)

1. I really hate that some people are blaming minorities for Hilary's loss.  Voter suppression is a real thing. It's hard to accept especially since America is so polarized right now, but America really did vote for Trump. (popular vote deciding president would be problematic in a lot of ways ).

2. Successfully balancing one's femininity and power is a difficult thing, especially in this political climate.  A lot of people didn't like her "calculated" nature but as a woman she had to have "masculine" characteristics and show she was not emotional/irrational and capable of being a ruler. It's hard to see where the line between sexism and Hilary's lack of charisma is.

3. Unfortunately, you can't separate Bill from Hilary. A lot of people gave her staying with him after he cheated as reason for her not to be president. Though, America would never vote for an older divorced woman (especially if she was single). She had to stay married to get this far. I also feel like some women didn't vote for Hilary as a way to assert that they were more than just a female vote (which in a way I get, but voting against a woman to prove you're more than your womanhood is kind of dumb)

4. There is a really bad rural/urban class divide. A saw some stats that many people weren't happy with Trump but they hated Hilary so much that they felt he was the lesser of two evils. This personalizing and demonizing the entire election has not been helpful. It's been more about personal issues than policies and plans. It's hard even imagining being friends or having constructive  conversations with a Trump supporter (and vice versa) because Clinton and Trump have both become very strong symbols of adoration and depravity (depending on who you like) that it just becomes so personal.

5. Let's remember that while Trump is a despicable human being, Hilary isn't some knight in shining armor coming to save us. There are very issues with her too. Also, while the president has a lot of power, he/she/they  cannot single-handedly destroy the country. I think a Trump presidency (along with a republican court, house and senate) will mean bad internal policies but externally (at least in the military sense) not much will change. We forget that the US is at war with more places today than previously, international arms deals has increased and the US  still bombs the shit out of people overseas. And it's not Obama's fault, I think it's just the system.

Also, all the people who voted for Trump and think that he will miraculously turn into a level-headed, responsible president are kidding themselves. If Trump has gotten this far without adjusting his behavior, I doubt he'll start soon. His gross inconsistency makes me really anxious.

6. Said this before but  right wing/conservative/fringe candidates and parties winning is a global trend. (see Iceland, Brexit, Phillipines. Also see anti-immigrant movements in northern Europe...I'm looking at you Sweden!)

7. I have a few issues with Hilary but I feel really bad for her. IMO she was the most qualified candidate and her life's work has been thwarted by an evil overbaked pumpkin. This was supposed to be her time.

Take care of yourselves today y'all. It's been rough.

 

Fuck Trump, voter suppression, misogyny, xenophobia and white supremacy.

[catlady]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

I honest to god don't think he ever expected to win. I think the reason he was so sedate last night is he is now faced with the sobering reality of actually BEING president, and I think he's fucking terrified at the prospect. (So am I, for the record.)

I'm actually wondering if he's gonna end up bailing. Not that pence is an improvement, and he's arguably worse, but I wonder.

I'm with you on all of this.  I said to Mr. CL over the past few months that his "rigged election" crap and so forth were his underhanded way of throwing votes to Hillary while saving face for himself; he could then blame everyone else if he lost.  if he had even a tiny degree of self awareness, he'd have known months ago that he's in over his head.

it wouldn't surprise me if he bailed, but I too am afraid of a Pence presidency.

[apandaaries]

Is this where we come to wail, gnash our teeth, and rip out our hair?   I'm shocked and horrified.

WTF has happened? I am so terrified for our future.  

[VelociRapture]

16 minutes ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

Mmmm sorry to ask a dumb question that is probably very obvious to all of you. But I am not American and don't understand what appears at first glance to be a complicated political set up.

I keep reading today, here and elsewhere, that Clinton won the popular vote. But what does that mean really? Surely if you are the most popular, you get the majority of votes and claim the prize at the end. So why if she won popular vote is she not the one to become the President now.

Not dumb at all!

In the states we have something called the Electoral College for Presidential elections. It was created by the Founding Fathers partly as a way to prevent something like this from happening and partly to prevent candidates from focusing solely on high population areas. Without it, candidates would never campaign outside the biggest cities.

Basically, each state has a certain number of electoral votes based off population. For instance, California has 55 while Connecticut has 7. Some states, such as the two I just mentioned, almost always go for one party over the other (in this case Democrats; Mississippi and Texas are pretty solid Republican states.) Others, such as North Carolina and Ohio, are less predictable and are considered "swing" or "battleground" states. These states see heavy campaigning from both sides because they usually mean the difference between winning and losing.

A candidate can't win the general election if they don't receive at least 270 electoral votes. Trump, thanks in large part to swing states, won 279. Clinton won only 228. The popular vote doesn't matter because he got more electoral votes than her. It was a closer election then anyone expected.