Bowe Bergdahl

[ActualReality]

On 10/30/2017 at 9:18 AM, sta_sha said:

Season 2 of the podcast Serial was all about Bergdahl and includes interviews with him and many others involved. I never finished it, but may go back and give it another go.

I was just about to post this exact same thing.  Only difference is that I listened to all of season 2 of serial.  In the context of todays events i'm glad that that story has come to an end.  All in all though that was a weird/boring season of Serial.

[Howl]

From the NYT article: 

Quote

Even so, the sergeant’s defense seemed to have some momentum. The Army’s chief investigator on the case testified at Sergeant Bergdahl’s preliminary hearing that he did not believe any jail time was warranted, and the preliminary hearing officer suggested that the whole episode might have been avoided “had concerns about Sergeant Bergdahl’s mental health been properly followed up.”

 

Also, Twitler's unbridled thumbs were a critical element in the final decision: 

Quote

Mr. Fidell then took sharp aim at President Trump, whose harsh comments about Sergeant Bergdahl may have contributed to the decision not to sentence him to prison: Colonel Nance had ruled earlier this week that he would consider the president’s statements as mitigating evidence.

“President Trump’s unprincipled effort to stoke a lynch-mob atmosphere while seeking our nation’s highest office has cast a dark cloud over the case,” said Mr. Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School. “Every American should be offended by his assault on the fair administration of justice and disdain for basic constitutional rights.”

 

[ShesCrafty]

4 minutes ago, Howl said:

From the NYT article: 

 

Also, Twitler's unbridled thumbs were a critical element in the final decision: 

 

I’ve read that Fuck Nut’s tweets about the terrorist attack in NYC may affect jury selection when he goes to trial, too. How anyone thought that idiot was even remotely fit to serve as president, I’ll never understand. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

For those who can't read the article I posted above, some excerpts

Quote

President Trump, who has labeled Sergeant Bergdahl a “dirty rotten traitor,” quickly criticized Friday’s sentence, calling it “a complete and total disgrace to our Country and to our Military.”

Colonel Nance did not explain his reasoning for the sentence, which will be reviewed by Gen. Robert B. Abrams, who convened the court-martial, and has the power to lessen the punishment. If the final sentence still includes a punitive discharge, it will then automatically be reviewed by the United States Army Court of Criminal Appeals.

Politics have dogged the case from the start. The Obama administrationembraced Sergeant Bergdahl — the national security adviser, Susan E. Rice, said that he had served with “honor and distinction” — a portrayal that angered many Republicans. Then, last year, Donald J. Trump made Sergeant Bergdahl a staple of his campaign speeches, denouncing him and calling for him to be executed.

Colonel Nance had ruled earlier this week that he would consider the president’s statements as mitigating evidence.

“President Trump’s unprincipled effort to stoke a lynch-mob atmosphere while seeking our nation’s highest office has cast a dark cloud over the case,” said Mr. Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School. “Every American should be offended by his assault on the fair administration of justice and disdain for basic constitutional rights.”

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Bowe Bergdahl Gets Dishonorable Discharge; Trump Criticizes Sentence

548

By ROBIN STEIN, BARBARA MARCOLINI and CHRIS CIRILLO 4:20

Bowe Bergdahl Recounts His Time in Captivity

Video The Times obtained never-before-seen outtakes from the British filmmaker Sean Langan’s documentary, “Coming Home: Bowe Bergdahl vs. The United States,” from January 2016. It gives the public a chance to see Sergeant Bergdahl’s firsthand account of his captivity.

GERRY BROOME/ASSOCIATED PRESS

By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.

NOVEMBER 3, 2017

FORT BRAGG, N.C. — Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who walked off his Army base in Afghanistan in 2009 and was held captive by the Taliban for five years, was ordered to be dishonorably discharged from the Army by a military judge on Friday, but received no prison time for desertion or endangering troops.

At a sentencing that took only minutes, the military judge, Col. Jeffery R. Nance of the Army, also reduced Sergeant Bergdahl’s rank to private and required him to forfeit $1,000 a month of his pay for 10 months. Prosecutors had sought 14 years in a military prison.

President Trump, who has labeled Sergeant Bergdahl a “dirty rotten traitor,” quickly criticized Friday’s sentence, calling it “a complete and total disgrace to our Country and to our Military.”

Colonel Nance did not explain his reasoning for the sentence, which will be reviewed by Gen. Robert B. Abrams, who convened the court-martial, and has the power to lessen the punishment. If the final sentence still includes a punitive discharge, it will then automatically be reviewed by the United States Army Court of Criminal Appeals.

Politics have dogged the case from the start. The Obama administrationembraced Sergeant Bergdahl — the national security adviser, Susan E. Rice, said that he had served with “honor and distinction” — a portrayal that angered many Republicans. Then, last year, Donald J. Trump made Sergeant Bergdahl a staple of his campaign speeches, denouncing him and calling for him to be executed.

Outside the military courthouse here, Sergeant Bergdahl’s chief defense lawyer, Eugene R. Fidell, called the sentence a “tremendous relief,” and said his client was still absorbing it after an “anxiety-inducing” day waiting for the decision.

Mr. Fidell then took sharp aim at President Trump, whose harsh comments about Sergeant Bergdahlmay have contributed to the decision not to sentence him to prison: Colonel Nance had ruled earlier this week that he would consider the president’s statements as mitigating evidence.

“President Trump’s unprincipled effort to stoke a lynch-mob atmosphere while seeking our nation’s highest office has cast a dark cloud over the case,” said Mr. Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School. “Every American should be offended by his assault on the fair administration of justice and disdain for basic constitutional rights.”

Even though the defense had told the judge that a dishonorable discharge would be appropriate, Mr. Fidell said he hoped that would be overturned on appeal. He noted that such a discharge would deprive his client of Veterans Affairs health care services and other “benefits he badly needs.”

Sergeant Bergdahl was 23 and a private first class when he left his base in eastern Afghanistan in June 2009. Army investigators would later characterize his departure as a delusional effort to hike to a larger base and cause enough of a stir that he would get an audience with a senior officer to report what he felt were problems in his unit.

But the soldier, who is now 31, was captured by the Taliban within hours, and would spend five years as a prisoner, his treatment worsening after every attempt he made to escape. He was beaten with copper cables, and held in isolation in a metal cage less than seven feet square. He suffered dysentery for most of his captivity, and cleaned feces off his hands with his own urine so that he could eat enough bread to survive.

Army investigators quickly dismissed claims that troops had died searching for Sergeant Bergdahl, or that he had intended to defect to the Taliban. They suggested that he could be prosecuted for desertion and for some lesser crimes. But in March 2015, the Army raised the stakes, accusing him not only of desertion but also of misbehavior before the enemy, an ancient but rarely charged crime punishable by up to life in prison. In this case, the misbehavior was endangering the troops who were sent to search for him.

Even so, the sergeant’s defense seemed to have some momentum. The Army’s chief investigator on the case testified at Sergeant Bergdahl’s preliminary hearing that he did not believe any jail time was warranted, and the preliminary hearing officer suggested that the whole episode might have been avoided “had concerns about Sergeant Bergdahl’s mental health been properly followed up.”

There's much more in the article of course.

What I find mind boggling is that the murky circumstances of his disappearance were known all along, but it wasn't a problem, many people, many GOP congresspersons, demanded his liberation. But when he was freed and exchanged with 5 prisoners from Guantanamo Bay, the political tide changed completely and suddenly Obama's opponents used this story for political purposes, Trump in primis. My sensation is that it was never about Bergdahl alone, it was about Obama and partisan politics.

[VelociRapture]

Given the circumstances and his medical history, I feel like this was an appropriate sentence. I hope he’s able to receive mental health counseling - not just to address the reasons why he left base in the first place, but also to help him work through the trauma he experienced while being held prisoner. 

As for the soldiers injured looking for him and their loved ones, I wish them nothing but healing and peace. I’m very grateful for their service and their bravery. 

Finally, Trump is the very definition of a jackass. How dare he attempt to politicize this further and stoke his supporters into a fervor. What an absolute clusterfuck. 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

His attorney wants him to receive a POW medal...

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/11/03/bergdahls-attorney-wants-him-receive-pow-medal.html

[Ali]

Typical of Trumpster to blame a mentally ill person instead of pushing for changes that would help this person. I find it disgusting that the military allows a mentally ill person to enlist and then discharges them dishonorably when mental illness interferes with their ability to serve. Then their life becomes even more difficult. Someone I love very much had that happen to him. I hope the military is held accountable one day for these transgressions.

[desertvixen]

I feel like the Bergdahl sentence was probably about as good as we were going to get.  A dishonorable discharge and loss of medical benefits is pretty heavy, although I believe his lawyer is fighting against the dishonorable.

I agree with the people who said he should never have been let in.

@laPapessaGiovanna - Not following whether other people are new incarnations of previous posters or not, but post-grad students in the mil can definitely get that money.  However, it's simply your normal pay and/or housing stipend, not an extra deal.  I was able to participate in one program in DC, so housing alone was something like 2700 per month.  There are also similar programs that let you go to excellent schools - I work with one guy who just did his program at Columbia.

[ViolaSebastian]

There is an excellent Frontline episode called The Wounded Platoon about the issues faced by the people in the  3rd Platoon, Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 506th Infantry in Iraq, which lost the highest number of soldiers during the Iraq War. Unsurprisingly, the platoon struggling with mental health problems both during their deployment and when they returned. One of the things they talk about is that there accepted people into the U.S. Army who were unfit for service, or would have been unfit for service 15 or 20 years ago. It also discusses how the mental health system is failing our vets. It's available online and I highly recommend it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/woundedplatoon/

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I feel like the Bergdahl sentence was probably about as good as we were going to get.  A dishonorable discharge and loss of medical benefits is pretty heavy, although I believe his lawyer is fighting against the dishonorable.
I agree with the people who said he should never have been let in.
[mention=21334]laPapessaGiovanna[/mention] - Not following whether other people are new incarnations of previous posters or not, but post-grad students in the mil can definitely get that money.  However, it's simply your normal pay and/or housing stipend, not an extra deal.  I was able to participate in one program in DC, so housing alone was something like 2700 per month.  There are also similar programs that let you go to excellent schools - I work with one guy who just did his program at Columbia.

Exactly, you always get a housing allowance, housing on Costal California is not cheap and housing allowances are based on location. It is gorgeous place to live, but seems like wasteful spending to have an actual duty station here.

[jojo]

Just finished reading this 373 page document. Bergdahl shares his feelings about his homeschooling upbringing and his relationship with his parents and sister. He also explains why he left. Enlightening.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/305010451/Full-Transcript-of-Bowe-Bergdahl-Statement

[laPapessaGiovanna]

@jojoWould you mind quoting the relevant bits or tell us where exactly to look? 370 are a bit too much for me and that thing isn't mobile friendly.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Well, I don't know if I'll make it through 370 pages, but I was a bit surprised to find on the first page that Bergdahl was originally charged with "Fraudulent Enlistment". I don't remember hearing that before. I'm not really sure what that charge entails.

ETA--Apparently, I can't copy sections of the text, so even if I find interesting stuff, I won't be able to quote it.  I guess I can point out any relevant page numbers.

[jojo]

55 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

@jojoWould you mind quoting the relevant bits or tell us where exactly to look? 370 are a bit too much for me and that thing isn't mobile friendly.

I can do that tomorrow.

[Shadoewolf]

My ex is active duty Army stationed in Germany and the income he reported to child support enforcement last year was nearly $7,000 a month. $3,200 of that was his regular pay, the rest was housing, COLA (cost of living), etc. He and his wife are both taking online college courses. They make a fortune off the military.

Bergdahl got a reasonable punishment. I'm prior service, my ex is active duty so I was a mitary wife. Ex's brother did 4 tours in the Middle East over the course of 10 years. Both my FIL's, my half-brother and my cousin served. So I know the military. I don't believe he deserved death or even life in prison. Obviously stuff went horribly wrong but I think he suffered enough, and has to be the one to live with the consequences of his choices. There's the initial mental issues, what may be a form of guilt for the injuries others suffered, PTSD from being held captive and being hated by an entire nation. The mind can be one's own worst enemy. 

And the Cheeto needs to learn to shut the f**k up, especially when he's hurting the situation more than helping. Oh wait, that's always!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

The treasonous draft-dodger in chief (I am against the draft, but I don't think that those who used daddy's money to be diagnosed with bone spurs deserve a hundredth of the respect I have for those who refused because of their convictions and faced theprison consequences in terms of prison time and discrimination, à la Mohammed Ali) is the least qualified to comment. Not that he is qualified for anything else actually.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

So, in the awesome document @jojo linked to, Bergdahl briefly talks about his childhood on page E0013. I can't copy and paste, but here's a screenshot.

Spoiler

He also tells the investigating officer about when he tried to join the French Foreign Legion and about joining the Coast Guard and being discharged after he had a panic attack in basic training. (Pages E0014 through E0018) 

It's a really interesting read, if kind of long. 

[JesusCampSongs]

11 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Well, I don't know if I'll make it through 370 pages, but I was a bit surprised to find on the first page that Bergdahl was originally charged with "Fraudulent Enlistment". I don't remember hearing that before. I'm not really sure what that charge entails.

Fraudulent enlistment is when you deliberately lie, omit, or otherwise misrepresent yourself when you enlist in the armed forces. Enlistees are supposed to disclose all medical conditions, including psychiatric diagnoses and medication history. While having a history of mental health concerns isn’t an automatic dealbreaker, some conditions and medications will disqualify you from service. This creates a pretty strong incentive for desperate individuals to lie or minimize— and I’ve also heard of unethical recruiters telling prospective enlistees that they don’t have to disclose that stuff. It happened to a few of the teenagers I worked with at my last job. I was luckily able to get the ROTC teachers to set them straight, but that recruiter could have ruined their lives if they’d followed his advice.

While I’m sure a lot of people lie about their mental health history and get away with it, it’s a big risk to take. If your crazy blows up while you’re serving and the investigation (which includes procurement of civilian medical records from childhood) reveals that you knew about it prior to enlisting, you’re in for a world of hurt. Instead of getting a medical discharge (like if you developed schizophrenia or a mood disorder after enlisting, which can happen at that age to people with no history of mental health issues), you would be charged with fraudulent enlistment and dishonorably (or other than honorably) discharged. 

Having a dishonorable discharge is like having a felony record. It’s very hard to go to school and find work, plus you can’t access any military benefits at all. NPR did a series on that a few years ago. It’s a very significant punishment, possibly worse than jail or prison, and you’re stuck with it for the rest of your life.

[Lurky]

2 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

It’s a very significant punishment, possibly worse than jail or prison, and you’re stuck with it for the rest of your life.

I don't understand how it's worse than prison, because the other things you say (not being able to get jobs because of the stigma, not getting military benefits) also count for a ton of people who go to prison, too - plus aren't there parts of the USA where people are disenfranchised if they've served time in prison?  Or is this another one of those USA things where it completely depends on the state?

[jojo]

There is just so much, but below area few examples when he refers to his childhood. There is clearly a Christian homeschooling atmosphere when he was young. He was unprepared for modern society.

Around page 110, he has a lengthy explanation of why he left his post and why he considered himself a good choice to do it. He wanted to do good, make things right, sacrifice himself for others in the Army, including helping the Afghan people. 

The whole story of his Army recruitment is surprising to me, but I do not know how it works, so maybe it is normal.  It also alludes to his Coast Guard dismissal. That begins around page 298.

[jojo]

And two more.....hope this helps a little.

[starfish]

It's  ironic that the fundie homeschooling scene  set BB up for severe mental issues, yet it's that conservative crowd who are so outraged! that we went and got him and then did not immediately execute him by firing squad once he returned. 

And folks can moan and carry on about his sentence, but Judge Nance is one of the most well-respected military judges there is. Defense attorneys and prosecutors alike consider him to be extremely fair and thoughtful. 

[Ali]

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

I don't understand how it's worse than prison, because the other things you say (not being able to get jobs because of the stigma, not getting military benefits) also count for a ton of people who go to prison, too - plus aren't there parts of the USA where people are disenfranchised if they've served time in prison?  Or is this another one of those USA things where it completely depends on the state?

They could be living homeless, eating out of a dumpster, and unable to get a job.

You don't get help transitioning. Some have family that are willing to help, but the mentally ill don't always think rationally. They might not accept this help. Others might have no one to help. Where are they to go other than living on the streets?

[Howl]

I find the interview fascinating reading.  If you want to judge Bowe Bergdahl, you owe it to yourself to read it first, then have at it.  My impression from the interview is that he's a nuanced, thoughtful and intelligent guy.  If his descriptions of the training (or lack of training) that he received before deploying to a war zone are accurate, it's pretty close to criminal.  

I found it of interest that he figured out on his own that, from the environment in which he grew up, he had zip for social skills and he needed to create situations for himself that would rectify that.  

[Soulhuntress]

I seem to recall the military doing psych screens?  Guess they need a lot of work?  The guy is not all there from his interview (and his dad is kinda squirrelly too).