NBC Fires Matt Lauer

[VelociRapture]

Just now, Alisamer said:

I'm absolutely amazed that no one (I've heard of) has come forward claiming herr putinfluffer got her pregnant and paid for her abortion. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he'd paid for an abortion for someone somewhere along the way... a mistress, a conquest, a daughter...

i suspect there are a lot of things not being said due to $$$$$, probably even beyond the harassment he seems to think is no big deal. And I wonder what his political base would think if anything like that ever came out. Or at least how they would try to justify it. 

I believe his second wife, Marla Maples, has previously stated he wanted her to have an abortion when she learned she was pregnant as a result of their affair. She refused, he divorced Ivana to marry Marla, and she gave birth to Tiffany. 

[2manyKidzzz]

I find it hard to believe no one at NBC knew at all. I have heard various comments that people had some ideas or just knew.

This really emphasizes the vast inequality that exists. I should stop thinking about this and go to bed.

[ViolaSebastian]

26 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

@JenniferJuniper this is a huge topic somehow. I will not Express this well.........how do men think that criminal behavior is okay? To go from trash talk to assault or harassment.......what makes a man cross that line?

I keep reminding myself that not all men do this.

It has gone on since forever.

 

There is an excellent study conducted about young men’s attitudes towards rape and rapists. It found there was a disconnect between what men thought a typical rapist was like (that creepy guy who waits in a parking garage and grabs a woman) versus their own behaviors. It found that 30% of them said they would engage in behavior that constitutes rape—so they don’t see themselves as rapists, because they say, use alcohol to coerce sex, versus tackle a woman in a public park. They’re raping women, but they don’t see what they’re doing as rape. My personal opinion on this is that this is where “rape culture” comes into play. 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:CASW.0000028452.94800.cc

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

 

I’m not sure if you’re both referring to her comments opening the show or other comments - but in Savannah’s defense she had literally just found out about Matt being fired when the show started. Yes, she said she was heartbroken for her friend Matt - but I think she was also pretty clear that she was heartbroken for his victims too and that she hopes their courage helps create a safer workspace (not just at Today, but everywhere.) 

I’m going to leave this article here, just because I’m uncomfortable passing judgement on the associates of the men accused (if they’ve thoroughly earned it by being an asshole that’s one thing, but I don’t think Savannah really reached that point to be honest.) The people closest to these predators are dealing with a massive type of betrayal by someone they care for and they’re being forced to do so in an incredibly public manner. That’s a lot to try and grapple with:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/30/can-you-love-someone-who-did-bad-things-angst-in-sex-misconduct-scandals-extends-beyond-victims/

ETA: For anyone curious, this is what I was referring to when writing the above:

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'll leave this one here...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/11/30/opinions/women-complicit-harassment-lauer-roxanne-jones-opinion/index.html

"Why would Guthrie and Kotb immediately rush in to praise Lauer before they even had details of the story? This type of selfish, blind loyalty is what enables these predators to reign with terror over working women in the first place. Must we always show this automatic sympathy for men we know who've shown such cruelty to women?"

[nastyhobbitses]

5 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I'm absolutely amazed that no one (I've heard of) has come forward claiming herr putinfluffer got her pregnant and paid for her abortion. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he'd paid for an abortion for someone somewhere along the way... a mistress, a conquest, a daughter...

i suspect there are a lot of things not being said due to $$$$$, probably even beyond the harassment he seems to think is no big deal. And I wonder what his political base would think if anything like that ever came out. Or at least how they would try to justify it. 

Oh, how they'd justify it. The woman wasn't a godly good woman so what do you expect? The baby was probably deformed (because of her genes, not Trump's) anyway. The money was actually from George Soros and Hillary Clinton was the abortionist FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS WHAAAARRRRGARBL.

Honestly, I think we could edit the Narcissist's Prayer to Donald Trump's (and his ilk's) Prayer:

It didn't happen. FAKE NEWS!

If it did happen, it's A Great Thing For America.

If it isn't, it's not a big deal.

If it is, it's Hillary/Obama's fault.

If it is my fault, I didn't mean it that way and you have to see what's in my heart, not my words.

If I did mean it...

You were a libcuck and you deserved it.

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I'll leave this one here...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/11/30/opinions/women-complicit-harassment-lauer-roxanne-jones-opinion/index.html

"Why would Guthrie and Kotb immediately rush in to praise Lauer before they even had details of the story? This type of selfish, blind loyalty is what enables these predators to reign with terror over working women in the first place. Must we always show this automatic sympathy for men we know who've shown such cruelty to women?"

Yes, I read that yesterday while writing my response to you. I still stand by my statement though. Guthrie and Kotb had little to no time to process the news prior to be tossed on live television. I personally think they did the best they could to remain professional in a pretty unprecedented situation - not many people have to go on live television to report that a coworker has been fired for such deeply disturbing allegations. I’d imagine many people would be emotional and shaken up in a situation like that. As far as reports go right now, neither of them have been named as being complicit in covering for Lauer over the years or have been accused of knowing anything specific either.

So I do honestly believe it’s premature to be judging them the way that Abramson and Vega should be judged. With Abramson and Vega, it’s clear that they both failed to take steps to stop abuses in their respective workplaces and they deserve every bit of criticism. With Guthrie, Kotb, and the other women of Today it’s not clear at all what they knew or suspected or what action they may have failed to take. I think it’s very likely they heard some sort of rumors, but I’m simply not comfortable judging them or blaming them at this point. You’re of course free to feel differently, but I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.  

(Lauer gets no benefit of the doubt. He’s a disgusting predator who deserves every ounce of humiliation and ridicule he’s getting. I hope his victims are able to find peace and healing with time.)

[2manyKidzzz]

I was uncomfortable watching Guthrie and I realized it is because she was upset for Matt Lauer. Poor Matt. He got fired and so many people loved him.

Not appropriate for prime time. Weird to me. Lauer is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Horrifying. 

[HarryPotterFan]

20 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I wasn't referring to political parties. I am in no way defending Moore. I am saying that we do not have the same evidence we have with Moore that we do Franken. We don't have a photo of him assaulting a woman.

Do you think Conyers and Franken should resign?

I'm going to respond to this anyway since you're probably lurking - yes, I think they should. And I think Moore should drop out of the race, and Trump should resign. Anyone who has assaulted anyone, no matter their ideology, should resign. And you didn't explicitly mention political parties, but the men you choose to support and turn a blind eye to evidence and the ones you condemn make it clear that political party lines are your main concern.

I also totally forget who PPS is, my bad

17 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

@JenniferJuniper this is a huge topic somehow. I will not Express this well.........how do men think that criminal behavior is okay? To go from trash talk to assault or harassment.......what makes a man cross that line?

I keep reminding myself that not all men do this.

It has gone on since forever.

 

Not only do men not see themselves as rapists, they also see they can get away with it. A classmate sexually assaulted me in 7th grade. I managed to get the guts to report it to my teacher, but she dismissed me and acted like it was nothing. I didn't tell anyone else for years. He got away with it. He learned he can assault girls and not got caught. This was when he was 12, and in a crowded classroom. I can only imagine his behavior has escalated since.

[Ali]

20 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I also totally forget who PPS is, my bad

PPS is @PregnantPornStar

Her socks other than Otter are @Witherwings and @Summer60

I hope she stops inflicting us with her filthy socks. There are plenty of other places on the internet.

[Fascinated]

I am slightly more impressed (that’s not the correct word at all) by the men who have admitted their behaviour by releasing statements to the effect that they are disappointed in themselves and will strive to be better, blah blah.  In other words, the ones who are not denying the accusations and further demeaning the women making them.  

Anecdote:  After a workplace Christmas party some years ago, a co-worker actually started shoving his hand (way) up my skirt.  I was young and confused and naive and I just pushed him away saying NICELY, ‘no’ because ‘I love my husband’.  I did not tell him to fuck off. I did not report him at work. I didn’t do anything at all.  (My husband, however, called him at home and told him what a despicable human he was.  His response to my husband was: ‘in her dreams’.)  My point is, extrapolate that to any of these men in power and imagine how difficult it would be for these women to come forward.  They are finally getting what they deserve: validation and respect.  

Well, except the Trump accusers. Hopefully they will have their day and it will be so fucking glorious. 

[Briefly]

I am getting tired of hearing that it must not have been an issue, must not have actually happened, etc., because the woman/women in question did not come forward or waited so long to come forward.

I don't like to go into a lot of details, but I know exactly why they didn't/don't come forward.

[kacarlton]

I am slightly more impressed (that’s not the correct word at all) by the men who have admitted their behaviour by releasing statements to the effect that they are disappointed in themselves and will strive to be better, blah blah.  In other words, the ones who are not denying the accusations and further demeaning the women making them.  
Anecdote:  After a workplace Christmas party some years ago, a co-worker actually started shoving his hand (way) up my skirt.  I was young and confused and naive and I just pushed him away saying NICELY, ‘no’ because ‘I love my husband’.  I did not tell him to fuck off. I did not report him at work. I didn’t do anything at all.  (My husband, however, called him at home and told him what a despicable human he was.  His response to my husband was: ‘in her dreams’.)  My point is, extrapolate that to any of these men in power and imagine how difficult it would be for these women to come forward.  They are finally getting what they deserve: validation and respect.  
Well, except the Trump accusers. Hopefully they will have their day and it will be so fucking glorious. 

I would be pretty impressed if any of the men who haven’t been outed yet came forward and said, “this has awakened me to my own patterns of harassing behavior towards women over many years. I’m going to resign and take myself to therapy and pay damages to my victims.”

[littlemommy]

4 minutes ago, kacarlton said:

I would be pretty impressed if any of the men who haven’t been outed yet came forward and said, “this has awakened me to my own patterns of harassing behavior towards women over many years. I’m going to resign and take myself to therapy and pay damages to my victims.”

My husband and I have had a lot of interesting talks lately about the “average” younger guy, and their behavior toward women. The joking/flirting/teasing that is right on that edge of uncomfortable, where it can all be turned around at the last minute into “it was just a joke, I thought you knew that” or turn into somethin else if the woman is receptive. He says he’s glad he’s not out on the dating scene anymore, that he’d feel worried about being seen as too aggressive when he’d be trying to go for assertive and confident. It was interesting hearing his perspective—he’s no devil by any means, and didn’t do the awful things we’re reading about today, but he doesn’t deny that he said sexist things in his youth, or wasn’t as respectful as he could have been.

Even more interesting was the conversation when I brought up a time when we were still dating that he brought up our sex life during a dinner with his guy friends. They were all laughing and elbowing one another and grinning knowingly and I felt awkward and embarrassed and cheap. I tried to laugh it off then and let it go, but I obviously didn’t forget it. He doesn’t remember that at all, and of course felt bad when I brought it up. My whole point in reminding him was: do better. Don’t be thoughtless. Teach our sons not to do that. Everyone makes mistakes and missteps, sure. But, God, try harder.

[nastyhobbitses]

8 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I was uncomfortable watching Guthrie and I realized it is because she was upset for Matt Lauer. Poor Matt. He got fired and so many people loved him.

Maybe it's just because I find his face so goddamn punchable and have felt this way since his ridiculously douchey commentary during the 2012 Olympics and his even douchier, creepy interview with Anne Hathaway, but I just don't understand why anyone would love him, miss him, or feel bad for him.

It's like how I feel about Josh Duggar, honestly. Really? You're going to waste precious emotional energy loving an asshole predator like him?

[J'Lurker]

There is so much here that makes me angry. The only thing I feel compelled to contribute is that any person can be an abuser. Male, female, undecided, gay, straight, trans, pigmented or not... when any person with an iota of authority misuses that power, it is abuse. 

I am thankful we are learning how to talk about it. I am hopeful we can all be taught to recognize abuse and find the strength to not stand idly by.

But knowing that that is the future I want: I refuse to paint any group with the same brush of generalizations. Our societal structure has been set up for men to have the opportunity to be in positions that lend themselves to an abuser role; as women continue to break through the glass ceiling, they will have equal opportunity to fail. If we focus only on gender, or get distracted by matters of race or orientation, we will fail to solve the real problem. 

I only have the rights to my body, and I'm the only one who has the rights to my body. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!

[MarblesMom]

I am so glad women are finally coming forward and stating the shit have had to deal with.

I was in HR for almost 30 years, and investigated hundreds, if not close to a thousand, complaints in the workplace about inappropriate behavior.... 

The accused always (99%) said I didn't mean any harm.  Explaining intent vs impact became like an over-exercised speech.  

Asking a man "is this your penis?" while holding up an 8 x 10 he emailed to his female co workers.... comforting numerous women who were mortified about the rumors floating around ... yeah, this shit is real, and no one is ever paid enough to deal with it 24/7.

[2manyKidzzz]

Just read that the NBC boss guy had a MEETING and he will really punish anyone who knew about Lauer’s behavior and have sexual harassment training. No mention of taking any responsibility himself . He is innocent and Knew NOTHING.

bullshit

[MarblesMom]

It is a shame in almost 2018 that we still have to have SH training. I almost wanna say your mama didn't raise you right, but I will abstain and .... gnash my teeth or something, instead....

EVERYONE in the workplace needs to report this shit.  Making punishment after the fact an ok icing on the cake is just so wrong.

Where are their HR peeps?  Are they afraid of actually doing their jobs?!

[Thumper]

NBC looks awful. They also killed and buried the story about Harvey Weinstein months before the New York Times expose. 

[HarryPotterFan]

Ugh, I was really proud of my witty invisibility cloak comeback so I posted about it on Facebook, and some douchenozzle I haven't spoken to in ages comments, "I see your friends point, you can't give the benefit of the doubt to someone who admits to wrong doing."

FIRST OF ALL, this person is not my friend. I am highly offended by that. I settled for pointing out that he somehow thinks you can give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is so creepy he's banned from malls or openly talks about assault. Fucker.

[SPHASH]

5 hours ago, Thumper said:

NBC looks awful. They also killed and buried the story about Harvey Weinstein months before the New York Times expose. 

They are just as bad as FOX.  I bet CNN is bad too.

[Briefly]

23 hours ago, littlemommy said:

My husband and I have had a lot of interesting talks lately about the “average” younger guy, and their behavior toward women. The joking/flirting/teasing that is right on that edge of uncomfortable, where it can all be turned around at the last minute into “it was just a joke, I thought you knew that” or turn into somethin else if the woman is receptive. He says he’s glad he’s not out on the dating scene anymore, that he’d feel worried about being seen as too aggressive when he’d be trying to go for assertive and confident. It was interesting hearing his perspective—he’s no devil by any means, and didn’t do the awful things we’re reading about today, but he doesn’t deny that he said sexist things in his youth, or wasn’t as respectful as he could have been.

Even more interesting was the conversation when I brought up a time when we were still dating that he brought up our sex life during a dinner with his guy friends. They were all laughing and elbowing one another and grinning knowingly and I felt awkward and embarrassed and cheap. I tried to laugh it off then and let it go, but I obviously didn’t forget it. He doesn’t remember that at all, and of course felt bad when I brought it up. My whole point in reminding him was: do better. Don’t be thoughtless. Teach our sons not to do that. Everyone makes mistakes and missteps, sure. But, God, try harder.

When we were still in the new dating stage, my now husband was a construction worker.  I commented to him one time about being catcalled by a construction worker on the way to work once and honestly couldn't figure out why I was upset.  He actually thought the guy was paying me a compliment - needless to say, he got a lesson right away on how wrong that was and he learned, but most of the guys he worked with were still catcalling women and I think they also teased him when he didn't do it anymore.  We have one child, a daughter.  But if we'd had a son, he would have been taught manners and what is acceptable behaviour. 

[MarblesMom]

On 12/1/2017 at 9:02 PM, MarblesMom said:

Asking a man "is this your penis?" while holding up an 8 x 10 he emailed to his female co workers....

This was probably one of the most humiliating and low points in my career.  It IS going in the soon to be written book, however.

[Cleopatra7]

5 hours ago, Briefly said:

We have one child, a daughter.  But if we'd had a son, he would have been taught manners and what is acceptable behaviour. 

Given the toxic ways in which boys are socialized by other males, including their fathers and brothers, it seems like any attempts to nip rape culture in the bud through enlightened parenting is a losing proposition. Intellectually, I know parents should try, but I’m just not feeling very optimistic at the moment. 

[Emkay]

11 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

This was probably one of the most humiliating and low points in my career.  It IS going in the soon to be written book, however.

I’d love to read that book- I have a relative in HR, and I respect what you all do. Especially you ‘good ones,’ since a complaint made to my HR department at work about an older coworker’s (who we see infrequently) actions up to and including forcing women to give him a hug (done in front of customers- she didn’t want to make a scene) was met with a determination of -while inappropriate, did not rise to the level of breaking any laws. 

 

I also agree with the posters who have said they understand women waiting to bring things up. It took me about ten years to realize that what a middle school teacher did was sexual harassment. Ten years after that (20 years after it happened), and I’ve still only told a few people- but not my parents.