Meghan and Harry 5: Oprah, Racism, and Gossip! Oh My!

[anjulibai]

Two people from dysfunction families find common ground and help each other learn boundaries is wrong now? 

[SoSoNosy]

Cautiously entering the fray:

On the "who made whom cry" subject, I saw somewhere that Kate told Megan the little girls would be expected to wear tights and Megan refused.  Looking at the last few royal weddings, the little girls have on tights in every wedding except Harry/Megan.  

I went on record early in the marriage saying I didn't think Megan was "all that".  I was told I was wrong, and accepted it.  Still don't like her, but don't expect to be on the popular side.

[tabitha2]

1 minute ago, anjulibai said:

Two people from dysfunction families find common ground and help each other learn boundaries is wrong now? 

But they clearly are not! Instead they seem to be feeding off each other, making their problems worse and I am not even sure the word boundaries is familiar to Either  of them LOL

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

19 minutes ago, Grandma D said:

Someone discussed doing a venn diagram and on one side you have dysfunctional family dynamics, cutting the family out, on the other side, dysfunctional family dynamics, cutting the family out. Now look at who is the common denominator in the middle. 

You are aware that people from dysfunctional families often marry others from dysfunctional families, right?

It's not as if there needs to be one sainted and one evil side in this mess.  What's the old saying?  Happy families are all the same, but dysfunctional families are all broken in their own way....something like that.  

And Harry is an adult and has his own agency.  Or do you believe he had no issues with his family of origin, the media, or growing up in a fishbowl which included the loss of his mom before Meghan?  

Also, when you have experience with toxic families and have learned to set boundaries/go no contact you may well apply that to other people you deem toxic as well to protect yourself.  That doesn't make you malicious, it makes you human and utilizing your defense mechanisms.  

I mean whatever your take on the individual members of the RF can anyone really dispute that it's toxic to have different life plans for your children based on birth order and (until very recently) gender?  Or to even have life plans for your children before they are born?   None of that is healthy.  It's astounding that there are any remotely functional relationships between siblings.  

If one of us had a baby and talked about what his future job will be due to his birth order we'd be seen as crazy controlling beyond Steve Maxwell.  But when it's George, William, Charles, etc. it's normal?  

I am sure Meghan is just as flawed as anyone else, but you can't lay the blame of the dysfunction of the BRF at her feet.  That's been 800+ years in the making.

Edited March 17, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[closetcagebaby]

15 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Two people from dysfunction families find common ground and help each other learn boundaries is wrong now? 

Right?? Why is it so hard to believe that both of their families suck? Clearly, Meghan’s dad sucks. Clearly, the BRF sucks. Meghan isn’t a “common denominator” here - it’s just that a lot of families are bad. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

But they clearly are not! Instead they seem to be feeding off each other, making their problems worse and I am not even sure the word boundaries is familiar to Either  of them LOL

 

Serious question - do you have a problem with how Harry left or that he left?  

Hypothetical - if Harry wanted to stop being a working royal and live a normal life (whatever normal is for people with that kind of money) and 

• Was financially independent - refusing financial assistance from the BRF (even Charles' personal fortune) 
• Didn't expect or want security from the BRF
• Renounced titles for himself, Meghan, and all children
• Embarked on a career that wasn't based on him being a former prince (although his connections and name recognition would remain)
• Didn't speak to the press about family issues

But

• Kept his inheritance from Diana
• Maintained family relationships for himself and his children or went no contact based solely on his personal feelings
• Attended major events like the future coronations of his dad and brother, and any funerals, weddings etc.  with no formal role. if relationships were maintained
• Participated in tributes or such of his mom, father, etc.  
• Spoke publicly advocating against the damaging nature of the tabloid press and systemic racism
• Shared pics and information about himself, Meghan and the kids based on their comfort level, whether that's complete privacy or instagramming every moment,  without a thought to obligations to the public.  

IOW if he and Meghan and had just washed their hands of the job and didn't complain in the press would you still have issues with them leaving but wanting to maintain personal relationships with his family?  

Or would you still consider it wrong for him to leave his role as working royal of his own volition?

 

[tabitha2]

 

16 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Serious question - do you have a problem with how Harry left or that he left?  

Hypothetical - if Harry wanted to stop being a working royal and live a normal life (whatever normal is for people with that kind of money) and 

• Was financially independent - refusing financial assistance from the BRF (even Charles' personal fortune) 
• Didn't expect or want security from the BRF
• Renounced titles for himself, Meghan, and all children
• Embarked on a career that wasn't based on him being a former prince (although his connections and name recognition would remain)
• Didn't speak to the press about family issues

But

• Kept his inheritance from Diana
• Maintained family relationships for himself and his children or went no contact based solely on his personal feelings
• Attended major events like the future coronations of his dad and brother, and any funerals, weddings etc.  with no formal role. if relationships were maintained
• Participated in tributes or such of his mom, father, etc.  
• Spoke publicly advocating against the damaging nature of the tabloid press and systemic racism
• Shared pics and information about himself, Meghan and the kids based on their comfort level, whether that's complete privacy or instagramming every moment,  without a thought to obligations to the public.  

IOW if he and Meghan and had just washed their hands of the job and didn't complain in the press would you still have issues with them leaving but wanting to maintain personal relationships with his family?  

Or would you still consider it wrong for him to leave his role as working royal of his own volition?

 

You just described Beatrice and Eugenie York almost to a tee. They are not and never will be working Royals but still work for the family unofficially with no recognition and participate in family events  They use money that was left to them or Dad or at least did before they married but nothing from the government and basically have the best of both worlds. 
 

If it had happened that way for Harry I would have cheered him on . 

 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

 

You just described Beatrice and Eugenie York almost to a tee. They are not and never will be working Royals but still work for the family unofficially with no recognition and participate in family events  They use money that was left to them or Dad or at least did before they married but nothing from the government and basically have the best of both worlds. 
 

If it had happened that way for Harry I would have cheered him on . 

 

 

Is there a word for non-working royals like the York sisters who kept their titles?  I'm sure 'civilian' isn't right, but is it just non-working royal?

[just_ordinary]

3 hours ago, viii said:

Absolutely, and it is often people who are bullied become bullies themselves because it's a way for them to take back the control and power. I have no problems believing that Meghan could be a victim and bully all in one. My only issues with this are:

1) There's been nothing but praise for her as a person from all different sorts of people that have worked with her over the years. This would be prime time for truth to come out if she was difficult to work with, but everyone seems to be saying the opposite, even people that aren't friends with her and just worked briefly with her on a set. 

2) The timing - this apparently happened in 2018... why is it just coming to light in 2021 with an investigation? This is something that should be been looked into when it originally happened. The timing seems sus to me. 

I would like to add that there are significant differences between both jobs. Being mostly among peers is pretty different to being thrown into a pool of sharks and little fish’s and a dysfunctional family (don’t have a good analogy here, school of trained, cannibal dolphins?). Also, no way to escape. That’s a 24/7 job. Of course you get stressed, maybe snappy or even mean. The question is, who has to deal with your bad mood - peers or the ones beneath you in the hierarchy? She also took on a job in a setting, where she didn’t know all the rules. The relationship between the royals and the personal is a very muddy terrain. 
There also have been one or two claims of people from her days as actress that were not exactly singing praise.

Fact is: the claims aren’t new. 
The Times (?) claims the story was the result of a long research. 
It also looked pretty bad for the BRF. A petty smear job. So I am inclined to think the article wasn’t exactly orchestrated by them. But, as I said - they did and do some horrible clumsy PR jobs, so who knows.

[tabitha2]

Just Non Working Royal I guess ? They certainly are Royal but just don’t perform duties at least officially. I know in certain other Monarchies only the King or Queen ,Their Heir and his wife and the next heir are considered members of the reigning  “Royal House” everyone else including the heirs other children are just Royal family members. 
 

This seems very clear cut and sensible to me. 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by tabitha2

[just_ordinary]

15 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

 

You just described Beatrice and Eugenie York almost to a tee. They are not and never will be working Royals but still work for the family unofficially with no recognition and participate in family events  They use money that was left to them or Dad or at least did before they married but nothing from the government and basically have the best of both worlds. 
 

If it had happened that way for Harry I would have cheered him on . 

 

 

Those girls might come out of it good now, but had a horrible time growing up. Their patents antics and the fashion of the 90s didn’t do them any favours. I was really sorry for them, the tabloids definitely crossed many lines with those teenagers. 
They are also not beyond reproach. Their work ethic is definitely made fun of regularly or openly criticised. Andrew might have spit fire, but not getting money through official channels helped them in the end. The public is much nicer when by they don’t pay for you.

[tabitha2]

Yeah. You know what? If any one had a right to complain and be Hurt it’s them not Meghan. They were trashed and had all sorts of abuse hurled at them as young women and I don’t recall anyone on their family lifted a finger did they?  When they started crying when papers said they were ugly or lazy  who stepped in?  And yet they came through classy and loyal and pretty well adjusted and  I think their parents are flops in many ways but they did better at raising their children than Charles and Diana ever did. 
 

I like Beatrice and Eugenie  

 

 

[formergothardite]

10 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Yeah. You know what? If any one had a right to complain and be Hurt it’s them not Meghan. They were trashed and had all sorts of abuse hurled at them as young women and I don’t recall anyone on their family lifted a finger did they?  When they started crying when papers said they were ugly or lazy  who stepped in?  And yet they came through classy and loyal and pretty well adjusted and  I think their parents are flops in many ways but they did better at raising their children than Charles and Diana ever did. 
 

I like Beatrice and Eugenie  

 

 

Not speaking out against toxic behavior isn’t classy, it is passively supporting a toxic system that allowed children to be treated like garbage. Well adjusted people would be speaking out about how the family business exploits children and says nothing when those children are treated terribly. 

[tabitha2]

Beatrice and Eugenie are focusing more on taking care of their new babies, step children being patronesses of their unofficial worthy causes and being newly weds instead and looking forward instead of hanging on to past wrongs and bitterness. I would say that is pretty well adjusted .

 

 

[formergothardite]

36 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Beatrice and Eugenie are focusing more on taking care of their new babies, step children being patronesses of their unofficial worthy causes and being newly weds instead and looking forward instead of hanging on to past wrongs and bitterness. I would say that is pretty well adjusted .

 

 

Comments like this are often thrown out at people who dare to speak out about abusive systems. It is way to shame people into silence. Abusive organizations love for this narrative to be pushed. Then they can say those who speak out are dwelling on the past too much or not adjusted. 

The idea that well adjusted people will continue supporting the unhealthy dynamic they were a raised in is just not true. I'm  also sure they are very well aware of what sort of backlash they would get if they did speak out. There is a lot of incentive for them to keep quiet and not step a toe out of line. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by formergothardite

[tabitha2]

Not everyone Wants or has to be an activist or speak out or upset the happy life they have   And that does not mean they are not well adjusted or shamed or abused and you should be more respectful of that choice. 

 

 

[Anna Bolinas]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

If any one had a right to complain and be Hurt it’s them not Meghan. They were trashed and had all sorts of abuse hurled at them as young women and I don’t recall anyone on their family lifted a finger did they?  When they started crying when papers said they were ugly or lazy  who stepped in?

More than one person can suffer at the same time. There's no quota. Also, to me, it just makes me feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie that nobody in their family gave enough of a shit to step in, at least not publicly. Like what a loving, warm group of people, who can watch teenage members of the family get slagged off in the press and just shrug their shoulders and keep on keeping on. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Not everyone Wants or has to be an activist or speak out or upset the happy life they have   And that does not mean they are not well adjusted or shamed or abused and you should be more respectful of that choice. 

 

 

I don't think people should be shamed for not speaking out against their families.  That can be incredibly hard and not everyone has it in them to do that.

But if they promote a lifestyle that is elitist and damaging (like the BRF or fundies) then they are accountable for that.  

I think the point @formergothardite was making is that when people praise toeing the line and consider that to be well adjusted the flip side of that is shaming those who do have the courage to speak out and shine light on the abusive practices and that's never okay.

Also....there is absolutely no way to know if someone is well adjusted by their public persona.  You can sometimes tell when someone clearly is not (Charlie Sheen) but being able to put on a polite face in public means nothing.  Especially for people like royals or fundies who are specifically trained from childhood to do just that.

I don't know what the BRF should have done about the insulting remarks about their looks as they can't control the press and it could have drawn attention to it making the humiliation worse....but raising kids in an environment where that's part of life is not okay.  And as Andrew's daughters if they don't have some major issues due to his press then their denial over their own emotional pain runs deep.  Assuming they love their father, knowing what the world thinks of him now cannot be easy.

 

[EmmieJ]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:31 PM, viii said:

Well he sounds shady 

This guy has more than a passing resemblence to Josh Hawley - a world class POS.

[EmmieJ]

8 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

Are you REALLY trying to paint Piers fucking Morgan as a victim of her machinations here? Come on dude. After an hour with him I’d drop kick him into the sun.

Speaking for myself, if Meghan chose to end her friendship (or casual aquaintanceship, whatever) with Piers Morgan, that's a point in her favor.  And the fact he cannot let this go shows how creepy he is.

[omilona]

16 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Beatrice and Eugenie are focusing more on taking care of their new babies, step children being patronesses of their unofficial worthy causes and being newly weds instead and looking forward instead of hanging on to past wrongs and bitterness. I would say that is pretty well adjusted .

 

 

I would agree. No matter the questionable (at best) people the Andrew and Sarah are and have been, it appears that they have turned out 2 daughters, who are by and large well behaved (if not well dressed), respectful of the Crown and their grandparents' place in history. And grateful for what they have been given. Something obviously lacking in others.  I think that the actions of Harry and Molotov have left the door cracked open for Beatrice and Eugenie to take up some of the Royal duties that will need to be covered. It's going to be quite a few years between the Anne/Tim/Edward/Sophie years and the George/Charlotte/Louis years. Louise, James, Beatrice and Eugenie will need to step in.

Edited March 18, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy
fixed quote box formatting

[omilona]

8 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

Right?? Why is it so hard to believe that both of their families suck? Clearly, Meghan’s dad sucks. Clearly, the BRF sucks. Meghan isn’t a “common denominator” here - it’s just that a lot of families are bad. 

Also, let's not forget the sucky most  immediately prior  husband who got his rings mailed back, right???  Or Jessica Mulroney whose 3 children were in the 'wedding' which Molotov said wasn't the wedding for $30,000,000 who was  subsequently thrown under the bus by MM, right up until this week when MM sent her flowers...so 'AUTHENTIC" https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/pictures/meghan-markle-and-jessica-mulroneys-friendship-timeline/. They all sucked too, 'right????' as Molotov says?  You know why I call her Molotov Mayhem? Because she loves to blow up relationships and leaves a trail of destruction and chaos in her wake. That is her FACTUAL history.

Edited March 18, 2021 by omilona

[just_ordinary]

I don’t think we will see Bea or Eugenie increasing their royal profile for several reasons. They are probably extremely happy, that tabloids are mostly commenting with a positive spin nowadays- stepping up will automatically bring negative headlines again. They live a pretty charmed life. Rich, married to rich men, turning up at royal events but non of the duties the BRF has for working members. Stepping up would put restraints on them and their husbands and children. 

I also don’t think they will be asked. The more of the retire, the less engagements there will be. The BRF will have to find a new MO. Just pulling incredibly high numbers (if you add them all up) won’t work. Heads together (as much as I criticised it, I liked the underlying idea) was a first step in that direction. Orchestrating a synergy effect between similar charities decreases the support you have to put into every single one. With more and more countries removing the monarch as head of state (and there will be even more once HMTQ died) and the Commonwealth presidency going to someone else as a member of the BRF in the future will support this. They definitely should take note on how other monarchies work with just around 5-8 members and create their own spin on it.

I do think the whole family was extremely upset about how the girls were treated. And speaking up would have probably been appreciated BUT we all know and have seen time and time again how much help that actually is. They just double down on you. And sadly, the public just goes right with them. No scandal or misconduct has ever stopped the people clicking or buying those tabloids till date. It would have been a nice gesture, but that’s about it. Removing the girls from the spotlight definitely helped them more.

 

[MamaJunebug]

14 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Serious question - do you have a problem with how Harry left or that he left?  

Hypothetical - if Harry wanted to stop being a working royal and live a normal life (whatever normal is for people with that kind of money) and 

• Was financially independent - refusing financial assistance from the BRF (even Charles' personal fortune) 
• Didn't expect or want security from the BRF
• Renounced titles for himself, Meghan, and all children
• Embarked on a career that wasn't based on him being a former prince (although his connections and name recognition would remain)
• Didn't speak to the press about family issues

But

• Kept his inheritance from Diana
• Maintained family relationships for himself and his children or went no contact based solely on his personal feelings
• Attended major events like the future coronations of his dad and brother, and any funerals, weddings etc.  with no formal role. if relationships were maintained
• Participated in tributes or such of his mom, father, etc.  
• Spoke publicly advocating against the damaging nature of the tabloid press and systemic racism
• Shared pics and information about himself, Meghan and the kids based on their comfort level, whether that's complete privacy or instagramming every moment,  without a thought to obligations to the public.  

IOW if he and Meghan and had just washed their hands of the job and didn't complain in the press would you still have issues with them leaving but wanting to maintain personal relationships with his family?  

Or would you still consider it wrong for him to leave his role as working royal of his own volition?

 

I really don’t have a ring corner for this fight - I just want to say that your scenario is what I thought / hoped H (&M) was(were) gonna do. Be philanthropists, brand ambassadors and socialites with his MAJOR name recognition. 
 

I don’t watch a lot of TV, so their Netflixing and Spotifying leave me even less interested than before. JMHO, no lines being drawn here. No sand!

Carry on, all ! It’s interesting to see your  differences of opinions expressed. 

[closetcagebaby]

9 hours ago, omilona said:

Also, let's not forget the sucky most  immediately prior  husband who got his rings mailed back, right???  Or Jessica Mulroney whose 3 children were in the 'wedding' which Molotov said wasn't the wedding for $30,000,000 who was  subsequently thrown under the bus by MM, right up until this week when MM sent her flowers...so 'AUTHENTIC" https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/pictures/meghan-markle-and-jessica-mulroneys-friendship-timeline/. They all sucked too, 'right????' as Molotov says?  You know why I call her Molotov Mayhem? Because she loves to blow up relationships and leaves a trail of destruction and chaos in her wake. That is her FACTUAL history.

Clearly you have some strong opinions on this. 
 

I'm confused about why either of those things mean that she leaves “destruction and chaos in her wake.” What was she supposed to do with her old wedding rings, hand deliver them on a silver platter?