Plathville 2: The Whole Family Needs Therapy

[ifosterkittens]

Thank you @QuiverFullofBooksfor the excellent recaps! I don't watch the show, but I enjoy following along with your recaps. It is always astounding to see how many marriages and/or secrets do not survive reality TV. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

This is the final recap of season five! Episode 14 is, of course, “To Be or Not To Be…” Before the season finale, TLC aired an unnumbered episode called “Remembrance of Things Past” in which the Plaths commented on old clips. It’s not available on demand. I’ll try to watch it when I’m visiting my mother next month and I’ll let you know if they say anything interesting.

We join Ethan and Moriah’s conversation in progress. Moriah says that it became clear that she couldn’t have good relationships with both her family and Olivia. Ethan reminds her that she was estranged from Kim and bonded with Olivia over that. In a TH, he says that he’s frustrated by the constant scapegoating of Olivia. He tells Moriah that it’s 50% her fault. She says that Olivia was always negative about her family; she slowly started speaking up and found that there was nothing left of their relationship. He says that she’s blaming Olivia solely for dividing the family. She says that she blames herself more, and she has the right to change direction. She says that if she can’t love her husband’s family, he’s not the right person for her. He says, sure, in a perfect world, but you’re with a person, not their family. Moriah says Olivia pulled him away from their family. In a TH, he says that may be true, but a spouse is the #1 priority.

Moriah says, “Just be respectful.” He reminds her of the disrespectful music theft accusation and points out that before they went to Europe, she and Olivia changed passwords so that Moriah could access her music. Moriah denies that this ever happened. He describes the scene and she says she doesn’t remember that. [It must be hugely temping to say “I wish the show had been filming!”] In a TH, he says that Olivia fell behind in her business because she was helping Moriah so much. Moriah acknowledges that threatening legal action was an overreaction. He forgives her for that and says that he shouldn’t have involved her in his problems with Olivia. She says she wants him to be free. He says he’s lost something beautiful and precious. She says “What? The first two years of your marriage?” In his TH, he says that the conflict between Olivia and Kim sucked the happiness out of his marriage. Moriah says she was doing her best and she’s sorry she hurt them. In a TH, Moriah says Ethan should put his wife first, so she’s going to take a step back. Moriah tells Ethan that she’s willing to be civil to Olivia. In a TH, Ethan says he appreciates Moriah talking to him, but repairing Olivia and Moriah’s relationship is a lower priority than the problems in his relationship with Olivia.

In Cairo, Lydia tells us that they’re thinking about moving, and she would really miss her prayer closet. The Lord has been her strength. She’s been dating someone for quite a while. He’s an amazing man of God who she met through mutual friends. They wanted to keep it private. We see photos of them with their backs turned. Her family loves him. She still has faith in marriage.

In Malibu, they go for a sunset hike on the beach on their last day. Moriah doesn’t want to be angry at Ethan any longer. Barry’s going to go home to finalize the divorce and move. Ethan’s going back to Minnesota to talk to Olivia.

In Cairo, Barry and Kim are deciding who gets what stuff. Barry looks at photos with the girls, who are going to spend the next week with Kim. Mercy likes spending a whole week at a time better than the previous schedule. She wishes they weren’t getting divorced, but she says that when they move they’ll make new memories, like in the pictures. Kim and Issac drive up with a trailer. In a TH, Kim thinks they should keep the house, but says Barry doesn’t want it and doesn’t want her to have it. It holds unhappy memories anyway. Kim and Barry are getting along a little better. He tells her that he’s sorting the photos so they each have the ones with their families. They disagree about how they got their Lionel train set. Ominous music plays. Issac sides with Barry, so Kim folds. Barry finds a second train set and explains the misunderstanding. The kids gripe about moving Kim’s stuff. In a TH, Kim wishes Barry had tuned in emotionally sooner. In Barry’s TH, the producer asks him if the door is still open for Kim if she decides to come back, and Barry doesn’t have an answer. Kim says she wouldn’t trade the 25 years of marriage for anything because of the children. Issac is almost finished with high school, and then he’s planning to get a four-year degree before “going with the airlines.” Barry says in a TH that down the road they will have a blended family with Kim’s significant other. He’s amazed that he’s repaired his relationships with all of his children. He wants them to know that they’re loved. So many people have never heard their father say “I love you.”

And now for the final ten minutes of the season, where Ethan and Olivia reach their bitter end. They both look extremely tense and apprehensive. Olivia says that when they got honest about kids and the future, she got honest with herself about a lot of other things. He asks what things, and she says that she realized that he wasn’t treating her the way she wanted to be treated. Honesty and communication have been issues all along, and she doesn’t want to continue those patterns for years.

Ethan says slowly, “One of the biggest things that…could be done…on your end…to try to make this work would be to go back and try to mend…your relationships with your family…and try to get back to some of the roots and values that were instilled in you…” He thinks that she hasn’t found the replacement she’s searching for. She says [among other things] that world was built for men and he's telling her to go back to a culture that told her to submit and cook three meals a day. He doesn’t understand the privilege he has. He says that men and women naturally have different roles, and cooking three meals a day is “one of the only keys to a man’s heart. When’s the last time you cooked a meal?” She says, “I can’t go back to who I was when I was 20.” She says that if he appreciated her cooking and offered to pitch in, she would love cooking, but she doesn’t like it being presented as he’ll love her less if she doesn’t do it. She doesn’t want that kind of relationship. He says that he never wanted this either.

He’s glad they got married and it was a very special time, but she’s changed, and he’s changed in reaction to that. She points out that if he remarries, his new wife is also going to change. She’s always said that they can raise kids together with mutual respect for their differences. He thinks that some things are right and wrong, and she says “so we all have to live by your rules?” and he says “they’re not my rules.” She says that if he won’t have kids with her or respect their differences “then I don’t see the future with us together.” He tells her that he loves her very much, and wants to have kids with her more than anyone else, and he wishes that’s how things could be, but in good conscience, he can’t do that with her beliefs. It’s a matter of principle. She says that her parents’ principles matter to them more than their relationship with her, and she’ll be dammed if she repeats that. She says, “I feel like I’ve been committed to this relationship, and I do feel that you’ve made the choice for us to not be together, but I support the choice, and I do think that’s the right move for what we want our futures to both look like.” The producer twists the knife by asking if they still love each other. Olivia says yes, though they’re not the right partners for each other. Ethan says, “I still love you very much.” Olivia says, “No one can say we didn’t give it a shot. I do want the best for you.” The producer says that sounds final, and Olivia nods. A title card tells us that they’ve decided to file for divorce.

[Xan]

One of the only keys to a man's heart is cooking him three meals a day?  Seriously?  Good grief.  Ethan can just crawl back under his rock now.  I understand he's conflicted but I suspect he will just go back to being what he used to be.  It's easier for him.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, Xan said:

One of the only keys to a man's heart is cooking him three meals a day?  Seriously?  Good grief.  Ethan can just crawl back under his rock now.  I understand he's conflicted but I suspect he will just go back to being what he used to be.  It's easier for him.

I agree. Change is hard. And his being a man means he’s got more power and control in a patriarchal marriage. Next time around, he will make sure he finds a nice submissive wife that doesn’t stir up ideas in his family. 

[marmalade]

I know he's clocked the Rods in the past, but Renee has been bred to submit to creeps like Ethan. I suspect he'll revert back to ground zero, although he may continue to drink and smoke cigars. He seemed to enjoy them. 

If not Renee, I expect he will find an equally sheltered girl.

Edited January 24 by marmalade

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I know he's clocked the Rods in the past, but Renee has been bred to submit to creeps like Ethan. I suspect he'll revert back to ground zero, although he may continue to drink and smoke cigars. He seemed to enjoy them. 

If not Renee, I expect he will find an equally sheltered girl.

I think Jill would never allow Renee. I’m sure Jill thinks Hosanna is just so amazing for saying no to the show. And the rest are mostly awful for doing the show. 

[JDuggs]

33 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Jill would never allow Renee. I’m sure Jill thinks Hosanna is just so amazing for saying no to the show. And the rest are mostly awful for doing the show. 

I don’t think there’s any way Jill would allow Renee to marry a divorced man. He’s a conservative Christian, but I think the only Plaths that could still be considered fundies are Hosanna and Lydia, and Lydia isn’t even doing the modest clothing thing anymore.

[marmalade]

I think Jill might give Ethan a second look only because he's come back into the fold. The values he espoused on the show are in line with the Rods. The only question is how religious he is now. 

But the point remains that he's looking for a submissive girl, and those are most easily found in fundie circles. He is well versed enough to fake it to get a girl to cook for him. 

[ifosterkittens]

I don't think Jill would consider Ethan a good candidate for Renee. Ethan is divorced, his parents are divorced, he and Olivia used birth control, he was "raised right" but chose to drink alcohol and smoke cigars, these are all things Jill condones. If Ethan was wealthy and willing to guarantee a certain amount to the print ministry monthly or give the print ministry a new paid off RV Jill might reconsider with certain contingencies ie rededicated himself to the Lord, live near the Rods during the courting process, take David and Jill out for several double dates. While I think Jill would overlook a lot for money, and I think she's dying for an opportunity to be on TV I don't think she wants affiliated with the Plath family as they are now. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Ethan can find a submissive wife who doesn’t come with a crazy mother. He was very dismissive of Jill on social media that one time (sorry, don’t remember the details). 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Ethan can find a submissive wife who doesn’t come with a crazy mother. He was very dismissive of Jill on social media that one time (sorry, don’t remember the details). 

Oh yeah I’m sure he won’t have a problem finding a new Christian submissive girl. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I’ve seen a couple of articles recently about a study that found that people in their twenties have a big gender gap politically. It’s interesting, because that’s not true for older people. Apparently women Olivia’s age are very liberal, even radical, while men Ethan’s age are increasingly conservative, even reactionary. The theory is that people are increasingly on their phones instead of interacting with their partners and other people IRL, and algorithms serve up these very divergent worldviews.

[tanba]

1 minute ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’ve seen a couple of articles recently about a study that found that people in their twenties have a big gender gap politically. It’s interesting, because that’s not true for older people. Apparently women Olivia’s age are very liberal, even radical, while men Ethan’s age are increasingly conservative, even reactionary. The theory is that people are increasingly on their phones instead of interacting with their partners and other people IRL, and algorithms serve up these very divergent worldviews.

I’ve also seen some debates around online-spaces being more segregated by gender. I assume mostFJers are female, while, for instance, most redditors active on gaming subreddits are male. With how toxic many of the male-dominated spaces are, I know that many women are on purpose spending their time in female-dominated spaces. This very quickly becomes a self-reinforcing circle.

[MayMay1123]

On 1/24/2024 at 7:52 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Ethan can find a submissive wife who doesn’t come with a crazy mother. He was very dismissive of Jill on social media that one time (sorry, don’t remember the details). 

I don't remember if it was Ethan or Olivia that said it, but Jill practically threw Nurie at Ethan... he was not interested in the slightest. It was also said that Jill was basically Kim's only friend. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

36 minutes ago, MayMay1123 said:

I don't remember if it was Ethan or Olivia that said it, but Jill practically threw Nurie at Ethan... he was not interested in the slightest. It was also said that Jill was basically Kim's only friend. 

And now Jill has dropped her. Imagine how it feels to have only one friend, Jill Rod. And the she drops you because you got a divorce, wear pants, and got a DUI.

[JDuggs]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And now Jill has dropped her. Imagine how it feels to have only one friend, Jill Rod. And the she drops you because you got a divorce, wear pants, and got a DUI.

There have been two or three women that have appeared on the show as Kim’s “friends” (women agreeable to be shown as Kim’s friends on a reality show). It seems a lot more important to Kim to have a man in her life than female friendships. At this point in her life, I don’t think Kim would have any interest in having Jill as a friend.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m listening to an interview Olivia did and she tells a story that I think is interesting. She said when her family first met Ethan’s family when she was 16, her family was performing as a family band. And Kim came up to her parents and grilled them about it. She wanted to know everything about starting a family band including how much money they make. And a few months later Kim announced to them that they had also started a family band. Kim would call them up and say they were coming to visit for a week and they would play music together. Then months later she would notice that the Plath’s were playing the exact same songs as the Meggs family had been playing. It’s such a Kim story. She’s always wanted her family to be famous in one way or another. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

She also said the Plaths had a celebration when she and Ethan divorced. Which is so tacky. They are such a dysfunctional family. She also said Ethan is very close to her younger brother Nathan so now he’s chosen sides and she doesn’t have a relationship with Nathan. Which isn’t surprising because those two are very right wing conservative insecure fundie guys. They are probably patting each other on the back for their gross patriarchal views. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

One more thing. She mentioned she was never friends with Ethan while they were married so they aren’t friends now that they are divorced. Imagine being married to someone for years and never being friends with them. It’s just so sad.

Edited February 8 by JermajestyDuggar

[waltraute]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She also said the Plaths had a celebration when she and Ethan divorced. Which is so tacky. They are such a dysfunctional family.

Such a charitable Christian family. Olivia is better off without them. I hope she finds a safe place to land and can untangle from this mess and I hope the show is over. They don't deserve a platform.

[JDuggs]

I haven’t listened to Olivia’s interview yet so I’ll just make my comments based on what @JermajestyDuggar has shared. I usually, not always, like what Olivia has to say and agree with her takes on situations. But some of the things she said sound kind of off. How does she know the Plaths celebrated their divorce? It seems like Olivia wouldn’t be in contact with anyone who knows those details. Did they have a welcome home party for Ethan that Olivia turned into a divorce celebration from her perspective? I’m not sure why her brother Nathan would have to “choose sides.” Olivia and Ethan’s breakup publicly seemed very respectful and non-confrontational. It was just two people who weren’t meant to be together. Maybe the divide between Olivia and Nathan is more about his conservative views (anti-gay, etc) but she’s somehow turning it into an Olivia vs. Ethan thing. And I’m really surprised she doesn’t consider Ethan a friend. Not that they need to be in touch, but they seemed to end on good, albeit bittersweet, terms. Maybe they don’t have the same views or interests, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t enjoy spending time together. I can see not wanting to be in contact because it just holds you back from totally moving on and finding better relationships. Most fundies call their spouse their best friend. It seems strange that Olivia didn’t feel that way. 

And if the Plaths did celebrate Ethan’s divorce, they should also celebrate Kim and Barry’s divorce. But the only person that benefited from that divorce is Kim, so that’s not something they can all celebrate for themselves.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

I haven’t listened to Olivia’s interview yet so I’ll just make my comments based on what @JermajestyDuggar has shared. I usually, not always, like what Olivia has to say and agree with her takes on situations. But some of the things she said sound kind of off. How does she know the Plaths celebrated their divorce? It seems like Olivia wouldn’t be in contact with anyone who knows those details. Did they have a welcome home party for Ethan that Olivia turned into a divorce celebration from her perspective? I’m not sure why her brother Nathan would have to “choose sides.” Olivia and Ethan’s breakup publicly seemed very respectful and non-confrontational. It was just two people who weren’t meant to be together. Maybe the divide between Olivia and Nathan is more about his conservative views (anti-gay, etc) but she’s somehow turning it into an Olivia vs. Ethan thing. And I’m really surprised she doesn’t consider Ethan a friend. Not that they need to be in touch, but they seemed to end on good, albeit bittersweet, terms. Maybe they don’t have the same views or interests, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t enjoy spending time together. I can see not wanting to be in contact because it just holds you back from totally moving on and finding better relationships. Most fundies call their spouse their best friend. It seems strange that Olivia didn’t feel that way. 

And if the Plaths did celebrate Ethan’s divorce, they should also celebrate Kim and Barry’s divorce. But the only person that benefited from that divorce is Kim, so that’s not something they can all celebrate for themselves.

You should listen to the interview. I think it would help you to understand the things I wrote. The podcast is called, “so bad it’s good.” Because I think it will help you understand better than my short little blurbs here. 

[JDuggs]

20 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You should listen to the interview. I think it would help you to understand the things I wrote. The podcast is called, “so bad it’s good.” Because I think it will help you understand better than my short little blurbs here. 

I’ll listen to it tonight. I understand that quick summaries don’t capture all the details. It sounds like it has some new information though. Not just a re-hash of old stuff.

[JDuggs]

Lydia Plath posted in her IG stories that she and her boyfriend broke up. Mutual decision that they weren’t right for each other.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I had already figured that since she hasn’t posted a pic of him in months.